Here is the update: and I would really like to hear from any of you guys with collision and frame experience on this.
I have concluded that the crossmember on my frame is bent upward about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. It is in the center where that little tongue part is located. The factory centerlink on my car has always had a curious bend
to it that sort of goes around that tongue on the crossmember instead of sitting just on top of it like all other 67 Chevelles. I have now looked at about 15 other 67 Chevelles. All of the centerlinks, wether factory or aftermarket sit "up" on that tongue of the crossmember. On my car the centerlink was probobly heated up and bent in order to go around that tongue and not sit up on it as its supposed to. Why? Because the car was hit and the damn crossmember is up about a half inch or so. I had no idea until I fully investigated the matter. I sent away for another factory centerlink off of a 67 Chevelle and matched it with mine and guess what --theres no bow or bend in the newer one. So the bend in mine had to have been put there by a previous owner or body shop that decided it was easier to bend the centerlink than fix the frame the correct way. Its too bad because I just had the frame removed from the car and had it all restored. They didnt pick up on the bent frame. They just told me when they reassembled my front end with all the nice new parts that I had the wrong centerlink because they couldnt get the new one on the car. They said the frame looks as though it had been hit on the drivers side--they took some measurements and declared the frame to be okay. Little did they know the crossmember was bent upward. Now I have to figure out how to get the frame fixed. So once again any suggestions are welcome. I was thinking Id tow the car to a good collisionshop and see if they can bend the crossmember down a touch without ruining the rest of the frames measurements. So it wasnt the aftermarket centerlinks that were wrong--it was me and my bent ass frame. Go figure. :confused:

Can you post any photos of the frame and where the centerlink bumps into it?

Well, at least your mystery is solved, even if it's not the answer
you wanted. I guess the next step would be to determine where
EXACTLY the frame bent. Is the cross member twisted up in the
front, or are the frame horns bent down in front of the cross member or this or that. I guess a experienced collision shop willing to take the time to get it right is in order. Call around and explain
the problem and see what they say. I'm sure it can be done,but like you stated, you wouldn't want to mess up some other area.
Especially the upper control arm mounts, or the lowers for that matter because of alignment issues. Any way, hope things work out.
Keep us posted.

Just to stir the pot a little. Way back in 1966 I had a NEW 396. I had a tire problem.
I bottomed it out a few times. (no marks on frame). Baker Chevrolet in Beaver, Pa. Put the 66 on the frame rack, Then Tied down the left & right frame horns and put a bottle jack under the crossmember and jacked it up. This was the G.M. advisment to correct the problem, To relocate the crossmember in the proper position. The material in the crossmember was designed to hold a small block. At G.M. The engineers were thinking,,,Untill we change the design of the crossmember that is made of thicker material. We will advise the dealers how to correct the problem.
Some folks today buy offset parts and install them in the car. Can you say " Sagging crossmember "
It would be possible to do the opposite, Get frame specs. Now tie down the crossmember two 1" rack tie downs that bolt to the rack.
Install an electric ram under each horn and start tweeking the horns, Chances are you will have to overbend each horn about a 1/4" to hit your numbers. It is not that difficult. I would guess2 hours or less with a good frame rack & the Specs. Now go find someone that will give you a good JACK JOB.........
Bob:thumbsup:

I dont think theres any reason to worry...but i havent seen it or a pic which would help and put some chalk on the bent part.:thumbsup:

It would take alot to twist the crossmember and everything would be messed up.So if they "measured" the frame and its OK all that needs to be done is bend the lip back down.
Less thinking and more action.Heat it up, use the BFH and put it back in its place and be done with it.Or take it somewhere but thats what they are going to do and you'll have to pay them at least an hours labor to do it.

Sounds good Bob, Im gonna talk to some collision shops in my area.

By BFH do you mean what I think you mean? Big ____hammer?

Thanks for sharing that information with us. I know it's a dissapointment, but at least you will have an opportunity to have it repaired correctly. Good luck.

Im gonna work on posting a foto.

I assume 66 and 67 are the same, maybe this might help.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll182/rocks66ss/66_frame1.jpg


Rocky

Thanks Rocky, that helps.

Here is a link to fotos of my centerlink on my 67 Chevelle. You can see how it has a bend in it allowing it to go around the crossmember. Its supposed to sit on top of that little tongue, but instead sits in front of it. Crossmember needs to come down about 3/4 inch I believe.

http://picasaweb.google.com/JDCASTIG/Centerlink67#

I assume 66 and 67 are the same, maybe this might help.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll182/rocks66ss/66_frame1.jpg


Rocky
Is that from an assembly manual? if it is, cool becasue i've got one on the way for my 70, if not, where can i get one for my car? (sorry to hi-jack the thread)

Is that from an assembly manual? if it is, cool becasue i've got one on the way for my 70, if not, where can i get one for my car? (sorry to hi-jack the thread)

That one looks like it came out of a bodyshop book. The same chart is available in the Chevy shop manual and body manual for your car. I don't think it appears in the Assembly Manual.

After having looked at your photos, bent frame or not, and as I suspected, it looks like you at least have the wrong center link on there in the first place. The one you have looks like a '68 and up center link. Compare to this photo:

http://www.ss396.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=chevellecamino&Product_Code=DS-749

What you need is the correct one for a '67 which looks like this:

http://www.ss396.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=chevellecamino&Product_Code=DS-740

The two look a LOT different and the one you have on the car in the photos definitely doesn't look like the correct '67 version. I can't comment on your pitman arm, idler arm and tie rods, but they may be incorrect too. Get all the correct parts for a '67 FIRST and then see how things line up.

picture helped.Seen it before.
Get the heat and BIG HAMMER and knock it back down.:thumbsup:
If you brought it to us thats what would happen.
You could check the (A) measurement at the datum line which should be 11 1/2" but it would of taken alot to bend that crossmember.
What are you waiting for,go out in the garage and do it.You have alot of work ahead of you with the rest of the car so dont waste time on this (little) problem that the BFH can take care of.
Brian

I would spare the BFH until I examined all of those front end parts carefully. There's a very good chance that the frame is fine and the parts are bent and/or mismatched.:yes:
Measure twice and bang once.
Squido

While employment of the BFH is always one of my fav things to do I hesitate in this instance because I've consulted with some auto body techs and it stands to reason that once I pound the crap out of the crossmember I would also be throwing other parts of the frame out of measurement and thus creating a bigger headache than the one I already have. Wouldnt you all agree? So Im notsure yet what to do. I am looking for a good collision guy to put it on a frame machine and straighten it all otu for me and measur to make sure its correct. Its hard to find a place like that these days. It seems most shops straighten cars out by eye. So Im hopeful to find a shop that wants to spend the time to do this right.

To Brian and Squido-- thanks for the advice. You said that you've seen this before? Where and what was the story and the fix?
Also the pics I posted are before I restored the whole frame. Now everything is brand new so no mismatched parts at all on the car. Thats how I now know that its the frame!!

Sounds like you dont know which way to go with this???
If you want to make sure the frame is straight use the diagram someone posted and measure it.In your case (being your concern is the lip on the crossmember) i would measure (D) which is where the pitman arm and steering gear mount---28 1/2" between the frames.
Next i would measure (A) which will tell you if the frame horns are pushed up.It should be 11 1/2" from the datum line.Then i would measure the vary front top of the frame horns from the datum line and it should be 14 7/16.
Did you make the measurements? If the front frame is bent you will not even be close to the number.After 40+years of who know what its not going to be exact but real close.

That lip on the crossmember is nothing,its there to take the damage instead of the damaging the crossmember (it did its job).I looked at the 68 in the garage,and its welded on, so i could try and understand why some think you should worry about it.
If you notice in the diagram there isnt any measurement listed for that lip,why?? its nothing but a steel bumper to protect the crossmember.
How they get bent...hitting a curb,parking log,car was ran into a ditch.
If the frame got bent from that lip hitting something the lip would not look that good.think about it the frame up front is boxed.in order to bend that the lip would be crushed right up to the crossmember and the top(under the oil pan) would show signs of wrinkling and you would be able to see the frame bending up right behind the front body mount where the frame becomes unboxed.

Let us know what you decide to do.
Good luck

I forgot one part.
If a person could hit that lip (not the crossmember itself) and cause the crossmember/frame to bend/move than that someone should be on a TV show for being the man of all men.not going to happen.

Brian-- you are a very amusing person. Thanks for making me chuckle cause I've been so stressed out about this damn frame business. What you say here is making a lot of sense and giving me some hope. I did measure the frame with a tape measure and the frame chart handy and the frame seems okay except for that lip thats bent up a tad. So as you say I could probobly beat on it with a piece of 4x4 and a nice little sledge and try and beat it back down about 3/4 inch. That would not cause the rest of the frame to move which is what Im fearing. I will try that tonight and see what happens.

my car has no motor or front clip on it but it does have 15 inch rallys and a set of BF Goodrich tires. So how does that effect the frame chart measurements regarding the
11 1/2 inch from the datum line? How can I tell if my crossmember is bent up from a measurement standpoint? I did measure the left side from the floor to the crossmember and then from the right side floor up to the crossmember and i think they were even. I will check all these again tonight. Then I will get out the BFH and get to work.

without a "rack" it will be hard to do sense your cement floor may be lower in spots.But......
I'm not tring to be a jerk but dont measure anything without it being level or you are just wasting your time.You need to think of this as just the frame (no control arms,springs,tires nothing but the frame leveled.
Take the tires off and shim the frame under the rocker area so the top of the front frame horn is 14 7/16 up.Do the same for the rear but its 15 3/8s up +/- 1/4.
Ok now your probly thinking but what if the frame has the suspention and body on it?? The measurements on the top half of the diagram are from under the car when the tech has the car on the rack leveled with the tires off.
Anyway the tires have to come off if you plan on using the BFH because the tires will take the force from the hit and the lip will be :D at you.Same for the 4x4,just man up to it with show her where she belongs.
I'm not claiming to be "the man" all this is is my 2cents of what ithink.
Going to the fair this evening but i'm interested on what you will do so post.
I think i read a new post on this??? weight on the car shouldnt change the center link postion...hard for the steering box or pitman arm to move up or down.The inner tierods are used to transfer this up and down motion sense the pitman and Sbox are the only think holding the steering to the frame and if they moved they move it would be a sloppy joe.:thumbsup:Loosen the pitman arm and turn the steering box, see how the arm wants to piviot up or down before moving or left or right.

Well I wailed on it with the Big F Hammer and that did very little. this thing needs a frame machine to pull it. No person with a hammer is gonna do the trick. I may just have my modified centerlink rebuilt and reinstall it and be done. the crossmember is only about 1/4 to maybe 1/2 off anyway. The rest of the frame seems ok, I measured again using the chart. We'll see.

Well I wailed on it with the Big F Hammer and that did very little. this thing needs a frame machine to pull it. No person with a hammer is gonna do the trick. I may just have my modified centerlink rebuilt and reinstall it and be done. the crossmember is only about 1/4 to maybe 1/2 off anyway. The rest of the frame seems ok, I measured again using the chart. We'll see.

Apply some big-time heat from a torch, and the hammer WILL make it move.

Like he said........wheres the heat?She was just :D at you because you didnt heat the thing up.
Car-1
You-0
come on your losing.
Get the torches out heat that lip up (but not the tip of the lip) until its red and shes screaming,grab the BHF and knock the bitch back down while its still red hot.
If you take it anywhere thats what they are going to do.Theres no way to "hook" that lip up to a frame rack and pull it down.And the guy doing it wouldnt want to spend the time to put it the rack/level it just to heat it up and BFH it down a 1/2 to 3/4"....not worth the time and energy to do that.
Heres what will happen if you took it somewhere.You drop it off and after you leave all the guys in the shop would come over and start looking.After 5 minutes the oldest or most knowning person would grab the torches and the BFH and be done with it in 5 mintues.You will come to pick up the frame and it will have been heated and they will charge you 1-2 hours for that 5mintue "heat and hit" as we call it.

The bent/wrong or what ever the center link is that you said you where just going to install and be done whit it,wont work at all.so dont use it...fix the problem not create more.Think about the geometry change that will be made by using it...you may steer to the right and the right tire may start making the turn sooner/quicker than the left and you aint fixn that with a toe adjustment.
Bend it down or get a different frame are your 2 choices.
did i just hear a "pop" from the torches lighting??? and where the glasses,that spot in your eyes makes it hard to be accurate with the BFH.
BTW how BIG is the BFH your using?

Is the driver side inner tie rod bent?....Maybe it just looks that way in the pic.

Seriously, I think the frame is okay but I think there are a lot of incorrect steering linkage parts involved. That steering link should be riding a LOT higher than it is.

For example, my '65 project (which uses the same basic steering linkage parts):

http://www.macswebs.com/richl79/65tudorwagon/framefullfront.jpg

Yes the tie rod was bent but what you saw was the before restoration fotos. Now everything is brand new. The centerlink was bent by some previous owner or shop to make it fit on the frame which is bent upward about 1/2 inch. I have to have the frames crossmember pulled down and all will fit fine. thanks--nice foto of your project--my frame looks as nice now.

John here is a photo that may help.....Even some factory paint marks.

Here are some fotos of my car before, during, and current. As you can see I still have a ways to go. But you can see the frontend as it is now and you can see the factory centerlink that came on the car that has a bend in it to fit around the lip. On the floor is another factory centerlink that I bought just to look at and compare. It is straight with no curve to it and I cant mount it on the car without a struggle and it rubs against the lip. The lip/crossmember needs to be pulled down about 3/4 inch and all will be right. Then I will install a brand new centerlink which I have waiting. Everything else on the frontend is brand new Moog. You can also see in one foto the presence of my BFH which I tried using to no avail. King Kong couldn't budge this baby, it needs a pull. When you buy these cars, as close as you check them out there's bound to be something that you miss, this was one of those missed things. Its a bummer but not the end of the world I reckon. It'll get fixed. Just gonna slow me down a bit.

http://picasaweb.google.com/JDCASTIG/Centerlink67#

Yeah Bill yours looks perfect, Im very jealous man, thats the way my frame should look.
Im so pissed and aggravated I cant tell ya. If I'd have known I would have replaced the frame. The guy that did my resto work didnt bother to sniff out the issue thoroughly. He said the frame was fine. He said that my new centerlink which I provided was the wrong one thats why it didnt fit. Little did he know or care to try and figure out that the crossmember was pushed up a tad. Now I have to deal with it.

I don't get it ?? Your frame looks ok to me. Do you have any better pictures of the crossmember?
I to had a bad after market centerlink sent to me. Mine was from CPP "Classic Performance Products" Mine is hitting the oil pan on the left side. The right side clears just fine. I called them and they are sending me another one to try. The first one from CPP was different from the original one that came out. I didn't realize it until I looked at them side to side.

I agree with Rich from post #15, looks like the wrong center link in your pics..
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Ziv8eBGDisw/Sj6oLOoLU_I/AAAAAAAABFI/wOD9nuC8sTo/s512/IMG_1947.JPG

See, yours sure doesnt look like this: :noway:
http://www.ss396.com/mm5/graphics/00000009/DS-740.jpg

the idler arm looks too long to me. have you checked out the arms that bolt to the spindles? could they be the wrong ones ? i think i would be looking closely at the spindles and the arms that connect to the tie rods. i would bet anything your frame is fine. heck, the spindles themselves coul be the wrong ones.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Ziv8eBGDisw/Sj6oLOoLU_I/AAAAAAAABFI/wOD9nuC8sTo/s512/IMG_1947.JPG
If this hasn't been beaten to death yet....

I agree the idler arm looks too long. The idler arm and pitman arm should be parallel. Those tie rods should also be closer to perpendicular to the arms when the whole thing is on center. I'll be that would steer like a pig in slop.

John, I had this exact same problem with my 67 ss. I was rebuilding the front end the week before it went in for paint. As I have read the post I am getting deja vu. I told my body man, he put it on the frame machine and fixed it. Granted my car was apart but a good body shop can pull the frame with the car all together no problem. Take it in, get it fixed, B done.

Oh take a new unbent center link in for them to install as a reference point

The arch going across the center of the center link doesnt look uniform to me. It looks like its bent too.

I assume 66 and 67 are the same, maybe this might help.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll182/rocks66ss/66_frame1.jpg


Rocky


I found an old time frame bender today who just happened to have the George Liskey measurements for the 67. The only difference is that the front horns are 13 7/8" from the datum and the rear horns are 15 5/8" from the datum. Keep in mind that George got all of these measurements from 1 or 2 donated new cars that he took average measurements from. This is not an exact science.

I'll send the picture via email if requested: troy.dehnel@email.wsu.edu