Hey, Everybody -

I'm considering (eventually) buying a late 80s (pre-fuel injection) 9c1 (police package) Caprice. It'll have quite a bit of what I need to complete my elky - (engine, OD tranny, tall spindles, steering box, etc).

From what I've heard, the 9c1 package has a 5 on 5" bolt circle. I don't want to have to deal with buying wheels in two different bolt patterns if I can avoid it. Can I put a standard caprice hub on and redrill the rotor at 5x4.75"? Would I have to redrill the hub and rotor from the 9c1? Barring that, can I put a standard Caprice hub AND rotor on? (would I need a standard Caprice caliper for that?) I'd like to use the 9c1 spindles and brakes, but I need to know if there's an easy way to get the 4.75" bolt pattern.

Also, what's involved in converting to the 9c1 quick-ratio steering box (bear in mind that I'm also planning to install the Caprice engine and PS pump)?

Thanks!

You can use the Camaro/Firebird 1LE rotors. They have the correct bolt pattern, however, they have metric studs.

Originally posted by BlueSS454:
You can use the Camaro/Firebird 1LE rotors. They have the correct bolt pattern, however, they have metric studs. Tom,
That's easily solvable.

Use a 14mm drill bit with moroso 7/16"x20 studs (part #46160).

graemlins/beers.gif

Joe

Will those 1LE rotors be a direct bolt on to the Caprice spindles? Will I need to do additional machine work to the hub, spindle or rotor?

72SSAbody, I have seen your site before, and in fact, that's the reason I'm concerned. It seems that you do a lot more machine work than I'm prepared to do myself or pay to have someone else do. I realize you are putting corvette rotors on, so maybe the caprice spindle / 1LE rotor is a simpler thing (direct bolt in?) and all I'll have to machine is the ball joint.

If it's safe to just redrill the caprice rotors, I'd even be fine with that, but I don't know. I've never done anything like that before.

I'd even be willing to get different axles/hubs/redrill stock hubs for the rear in order to get the 5" bolt pattern all the way around. I just don't want to be ordering rear wheels from the car section and fronts from the truck section.

Thanks!

Maurice,
Here is what I would do, and I'm not trying to burst your bubble I'm just suggesting from experience. When you get ahold of this 9C1 its probably going to have some miles on her (like a typical late model would) and more than likely the rotors are going to be at their limit for being turned. Thus I would buy new 1LE rotors for the 12" spindles and either buy the metric lug nuts or put in new 7/6" x 20 SAE studs.

Yes, you could probably redrill the 5 on 5" bolt pattern for the 5 on 4.75" bolt pattern and be "car guy safe", but you would be more wiser (and less of a hassle) to replace the rotors for the 1LE's. Remember, they are wear items and do need to be replaced so why not do it then?

Now, as for what else you need for swapping the tall spindles onto your Chevelle...well, that's another story all together. For instance, some people will warn you of the ackerman and bumpsteer issues that comes with this "frankenstein" swap, but I believe the added negative camber curve and large front discs out weight those concerns (just a personal opinion). After you get over that then you need to realize that you'll need either custom upper control arms or Moog K5250 offset shafts installed reversed.
Then, on your parts list you'll need:
</font> outer tie rod ends (depending on year of your A-body)</font> b-body lower ball joint machined to 2.010"</font> b-body upper ball joint (which drops right in)</font>
You might want to perform a search on the subject as there is tons of info and discussion.

That's what I would do & is my $0.02

Good luck with what you decide to do!
Joe

All of the Caprice 5 on 5 rotors that I have seen have reinforcement ribs evenly spaced between the orginal 5 stud holes. And so redrilling the rotors to 5 on 4 3/4 would be difficult to impossible because the ribs are in the way. If you need a photo I might be able to dig one up.

Good Luck.

72SSAbody,

Thanks! The fact that they are wear items and probably should be replaced anyway had not occurred to me in this case. Don't know why. Duh. graemlins/clonk.gif I now see that you're totally right about the 1LE rotors. Won't be that huge an expense, and while I'm saving (super tight budget), I'll just deal with 5" lugs in the front.

"car guy safe" . . . LOL - point taken.

As far as the extra parts I need, I have been researching the tall spindle swap in general - was just going to start out with the extra shim pack for the upper arms, then buy aftermarket or make my own upper arms later. The rest should be no problem. I was just wondering about the possibility of mounting different rotors on the caprice spindles to get the desired bolt pattern.

I have heard of the ackerman and bumpsteer problems (pages and pages of debate on this site) and I figure that I'll just give it a try. If I don't like it, it's not irreversible. I trust the judgement of many of the people who have tried it and are happy with it. In fact, 72ssabody and Airrj, your sites have been major factors in my decision. Lots of useful information at both sites. I figure if you guys and cjlandry are behind it, it can't be all bad.

Airrj, I understand what you're saying about the ribs. No need for pictures.

Thanks a lot, you guys! This info is a big help! I really appreciate it.

Now, does anyone know if the 1LE rotors will be a direct bolt on to the caprice spindles, or will I have to do any machine work to spindle or rotor?

Originally posted by airrj:
All of the Caprice 5 on 5 rotors that I have seen have reinforcement ribs evenly spaced between the orginal 5 stud holes. And so redrilling the rotors to 5 on 4 3/4 would be difficult to impossible because the ribs are in the way. If you need a photo I might be able to dig one up.

Good Luck. Difficult, maybe. Impossible,no. I used rotors from the Buick S/W I got the spindles from. Well, not really, I bought new ones but you get the idea. But I did it because they are cheaper the 1LE and I have access to a machine shop with a CNC mill so I could redrill the bolt pattern then flip them over and spot face the back. I was a bit concerned about clearing out some of those ribs but 1.5 years later, no problems. That being said, I think when it's time to replace the rotors, I'll just buy the 1LE ones.

Jeff

Originally posted by jpete:
I have access to a machine shop with a CNC mill :D :D :D

That is why I said difficult. I just got a Bridgeport last week. In a few weeks when I get tooling it will no longer be difficult for me either. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

OK, here's another question (pardon me if it's a dumb one). Will the caprice brake booster fit?

About the Caprice steering box...

It will bolt right in, But you will need a Chevelle Power Steering Pitman Arm (1968-1972 should work, but 1964-1967 I think are different).

You will also need a rag-joint to adapt the box to the older Chevelle shaft... You can pick up a used one from the junkyard, or buy a new one... They are late-70's/early 80's parts...

Jim Shea has some good info,
Go here & read this:
http://www.chevelles.com/techref/ftecref29.html


Finally, the hose fittings into the box are different from Chevelles, AND the Caprice hoses likely won't fit the Chevelle... You can either call Lee manufacturing (do a search on this forum for their number), and they have press-in bushings that allow the old "SAE flare" Chevelle hoses to be attached to the newer box (with the "Metric O-ring" fittings... Not sure if these could be used on the pump outlet, but maybe just get a pump outlet from an older GM vehicle (pre-"Metric O-ring" (pre-80's?).

You can also get Steel Braided hoses and fittings, but CAUTION: they are specific to Power Steering (don't use the regular fuel stuff...

I know Russel Hoses sells Power Steering stuff. Check out the Edelbrock/Russel website...


Now, does anyone know if the 1LE rotors will be a direct bolt on to the caprice spindles, or will I have to do any machine work to spindle or rotor?
The 1LE rotor should be a direct bolt-on, even with the metric studs installed (same bolt pattern, just the studs are metric), but you would need Metric lugs nuts

I like to offer lots of advice, but as of yet, I have not done this swap... If R.J. ever stops by this way again, he will see not much has changed... even those hubs are still in a box under the Chevelle :D

Why not just keep the 5 on 5 bolt pattern, have the larger studs put in the front rotors and just have your rear drums drilled out for 5 on 5 or get drums with a 5 on 5 pattern? Bigger rims selection in 5 on 5 and cheaper to boot and no mix and match when looking at rims. Just wondering.

Wow, I had forgotten all about this thread and didn't realize I'd gotten more replies since the last time I looked at it!

I'm not too worried about hoses/fittings - I'm going to be using the engine from the cop car and it will be no problem to bring the PS pump with it. If necessary, I'll get aftermarket hoses, but basically I was envisioning a fully late model caprice steering system until it gets to the pitman arm. What cars have the rag joint I need?

MM, as far as the bolt pattern goes, I haven't fully decided. I'm not sold either way. I'm leaning towards standard steel 15x8 rally rims with no trim rings or caps (maybe dog dish or baby moon), and they seem more plentiful in the 4.75 bolt pattern. All other things being equal, however, I think I'd prefer the big bolt pattern.

ZB....

The rag joint that will mate up the 21st century box with our vintage iron, is found on 77-82 1/2 ton 2 wheel drive Chevy pick-ups.