Thought it would be interesting to get a general consensus of what you think was installed at the "Engine" Plant rather than at the final "Assembly" Plant. I have a pretty good idea, but not sure on a few of these. If my poll is set up properly you should be able to indicate each item you think was put on the engine at the "Engine" assembly plant (EG - Tonowanda). Maybe there are some other items I left out as well.

I believe, the exhaust manifolds were the only parts on the list, that were installed at the engine plant (Tonowanda)

Perhaps the oil pan, intake, bell housing, water pump. should be on the list as well. These were put on at the engine plant.

That's how I voted Bill.

Pretty sure that the only parts on the list installed were the exhaust manifolds. I believe that all the rest are vehicle specific.

Intake, valve covers, and oil pan too.

The crate 327 I bought in 1970 had a water pump & exhaust manifolds on it, but did not have a bell housing, fuel pump or FP pushrod. I paid a staggering $125 for it. :eek:

Engines were test run at the engine plant.
I believe exhaust manifolds, starter and distributor were installed.

Starters were not. But for manual trans models the bell housing would be installed because it was matched to the engine to assure proper alignment. Carbs are not because the engines are test run on natural gas.

Exhaust and distributors is Colvin's take. Were engines actually 'run' (as on an engine stand with fluids) or just pressure/vacuum tested for leaks?

My understanding, from talking to a Tonowanda worker at the Niagara Falls show is this. The engines were run on propane some how. No carbs or dist were needed. The intakes and pans were installed. They had nothing to do with what car it was going into. The engine code was on the pad, and that was how they knew what intake and pan to put on it. Then at the assembly plant, the build sheet would show what motor was going into the car. It was then stamped with the partial vin too.

When posting this I assumed the oil pan, intake and water pump were a given as far as being installed at the engine plant.

There are two items I was really not sure of, those being motor mounts and distributor. All the other items seem to have a reference in the Assembly Manual which would indicate they were not installed at the engine plant.

Another reason for posting this would be the reference to any particular "dated" components (distributor, starter, carb,etc.). For example, if a part was installed at the engine plant then it would need to be dated prior to the assembly date of the engine. If that part was installed at the final assembly plant then it would be more in tune with the car build date. As has been mentioned on this board many times, engines could have sat at the assembly plant for a while before being put in a car. So, if the distributor was indeed installed at the engine plant, then if somebody is looking for a correctly dated distributor it would need to be before the engine assembly date.

Just my meager observations.

Maybe it varried between years. ? Not implying Colvin is 100% correct but here is what is in his books. Obviously some itmes omitted such as clutch cover/clutch disc/bellhousing at Tonawanda and, from what I've seen, engine IDs were stamped on big blocks before the heads were installed since it wouldn't be possible to stamp them underneath that big plug.

{Edit} Engine mounts are referenced in the AIM. For 1970 they're under UPC 6, sheets B6, B7, and B8.

FWIW, http://www.camaros.org/assemblyprocess.shtml#engine. Go to; Chevrolet Assembly - Engine Dress Line Operations Details

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk75/ls7chevelle/c1.jpg

So it looks like here the distributors were included in the base engine when delivered. Cool photo - thanks.

The Camaros.org page also says The VIN derivative numbers were stamped in the next operation on both the engine pad and the transmission, using a gang-stamp holder and a hammer.I don't think was the case GM wide as a lot of 66/67 partial VIN stamps are obviously not gang-stamped.

Yep, dist were installed. What about plugs/wires. I wonder why they put the dist in, without the plugs/wires??.... or do I see plugs too??

Pictures courtesy CRG, see link in above post.

http://www.camaros.org/images/assembly/assembly-engines.jpg

http://www.camaros.org/images/assembly/assembly-engine.jpg

Greeting all. Some of you may know that I began working with GM in 1970 at the Van Nuys plant. We were building A bodies and F bodies at the time. All engines came in basically as long blocks with the distributor installed. Engines for automatic transmissions had the flex plate installed; manual transmission engines had the flywheel, clutch, TO bearing and bellhousing installed at the engine plant. Motor mounts were installed at the engine plant as they were used to secure the engine to the shipping racks. All accessory drive equipment, belts, carbs, spark plug wires, etc were installed on the engine line at Van Nuys. Hope this helps, Tom.

...or do I see plugs too??Look close, you'll see them. Seems like they'd be a pretty easy thing to break off in shipping, especially on a 6-cyl, but I suppose the assembly plant had spares just in case.

Engine mounts are referenced in the AIM. For 1970 they're under UPC 6, sheets B6, B7, and B8.

Good catch Dale. I now see it in the 69 manual UPC6-B10. However, that seems to contradict Tom's first hand experience wherein they were installed at the engine plant.

Thanks for the pictures John, they are a big help. It would be my opinion the second picture (black and white) in your second post is actually from the assembly plant since all the other accessories seem to be installed :confused:

Hmmmm, we're getting closer :hurray:

Not sure whether the engines are being loaded or unloaded from what would appear to be http://nyc.railfan.net/nyc-redsm.gif train cars. :confused:

Either way I agree the last pic. would be showing us a completed (or close to completed) assembly ready to be installed in chassis. :yes:

Maybe someone more familiar with the photo's can/will chime in. :thumbsup:

I wouldn't count on any hard and fast rules. I worked in the Oshawa truck plant from 1983 to 2006. There was a time when stick shift engines came in with just the flywheel and we installed the bell housing, clutch fork and Throw out bearing. We also installed the engine mounts. I know it's not Chevelle, but just shows that GM did things a bit differently from time to time. It may have been cheaper to install stuff at the engine plant or they may have been spreading the work load around. You never know.

Tom,

It's quite possible you may have installed an option or two on my 71 Chevelle...too cool!!!!! It rolled down the line on the 19th of May.

Greeting all. Some of you may know that I began working with GM in 1970 at the Van Nuys plant. We were building A bodies and F bodies at the time. All engines came in basically as long blocks with the distributor installed. Engines for automatic transmissions had the flex plate installed; manual transmission engines had the flywheel, clutch, TO bearing and bellhousing installed at the engine plant. Motor mounts were installed at the engine plant as they were used to secure the engine to the shipping racks. All accessory drive equipment, belts, carbs, spark plug wires, etc were installed on the engine line at Van Nuys. Hope this helps, Tom.

Keep in mind too that those pics are probalby of large truck engines, and not passenger cars from what I can tell. Look at the flexplate area-way too big and the manifolds are for the "other" 1963 big engine, and are 2bbl. Also, the last pics showed hoses on, so they were probably just being prepped to put in, and not at the engine plant. Is it possible the truck lines were different, or that the newer lines ran different? I could be way off too, just want to make sure we're not assuming stuff. Thanks for the extra info too NUTS.

Keep in mind too that those pics are probalby of large truck engines, and not passenger cars from what I can tell. Look at the flexplate area-way too big and the manifolds are for the "other" 1963 big engine, and are 2bbl. Also, the last pics showed hoses on, so they were probably just being prepped to put in, and not at the engine plant. Is it possible the truck lines were different, or that the newer lines ran different? I could be way off too, just want to make sure we're not assuming stuff. Thanks for the extra info too NUTS.

The large flex plate and adapter plate are for a cast iron powerglide. That would indicate 1962 or earlier assembly. Truck engines from that era had a vacuum governor to control engine maximum RPM. These used a different distributor than the ones shown in the pictures. Also if I recall correctly, the 348 engines shown would have dual thermostats in a larger housing if they were going in a large truck.

Paul

Pretty sure those pics were shown a while back in a post and going in 59 Impala's and Belairs. There where several pics of the cars going down the line as well as the pics of the motors.

Were the vins stamped at the engine plant or at the assembly plant? Here is why I ask.

What if a train derails or is some other way delayed. Do they hold up the assmbly line waiting for the engine for a specific car to arrive?

Partial VINs were stamped at the final assembly plant when the car was scheduled. Only the assembly plant knew what individual car the engine would be installed in.

In the case of a train derailment, if it would hold up production of a particular car due to an engine shortage the car probably wouldn't have been scheduled until parts were on hand at the plant. If any parts were delayed, the car would simply not be scheduled and, if the delay were substantial, the order would either go to another plant or would be sent back to the dealer/customer for disposition.

Makes sense. It would also explain why some plants had the stamp on the alternator pad, others had it on the oil filter boss.

Another question. i read somewhere that there was a strike in late 1969. Does anyone have any info on when this occured and how it affected Chevelle production? Or was the strike in late 1970?

Greeting all. Some of you may know that I began working with GM in 1970 at the Van Nuys plant. We were building A bodies and F bodies at the time. All engines came in basically as long blocks with the distributor installed. Engines for automatic transmissions had the flex plate installed; manual transmission engines had the flywheel, clutch, TO bearing and bellhousing installed at the engine plant. Motor mounts were installed at the engine plant as they were used to secure the engine to the shipping racks. All accessory drive equipment, belts, carbs, spark plug wires, etc were installed on the engine line at Van Nuys. Hope this helps, Tom.

Hmmm, exactly as I voted before I read the whole post. :yes: :D

This is what I've preached in other posts on this topic. If it is on the build sheet, it's installed at the assembly plant.

Greeting all. Some of you may know that I began working with GM in 1970 at the Van Nuys plant. We were building A bodies and F bodies at the time. All engines came in basically as long blocks with the distributor installed. Engines for automatic transmissions had the flex plate installed; manual transmission engines had the flywheel, clutch, TO bearing and bellhousing installed at the engine plant. Motor mounts were installed at the engine plant as they were used to secure the engine to the shipping racks. All accessory drive equipment, belts, carbs, spark plug wires, etc were installed on the engine line at Van Nuys. Hope this helps, Tom.

How did they test run the engines at Tonowanda if the plug wires wern't installed until the car was at the assembly plant?

Do we have anyone on the boards who works/worked at Tonowanda?

Greeting all. Some of you may know that I began working with GM in 1970 at the Van Nuys plant. Tom.

So Tom, you probably had a hand in building my car. Just wanted to say THANKS for doing a great job on it. :thumbsup:

My understanding, from talking to a Tonowanda worker at the Niagara Falls show is this. The engines were run on propane some how. No carbs or dist were needed. The intakes and pans were installed. They had nothing to do with what car it was going into. The engine code was on the pad, and that was how they knew what intake and pan to put on it. Then at the assembly plant, the build sheet would show what motor was going into the car. It was then stamped with the partial vin too.

How did they test run the engines at Tonowanda if the plug wires wern't installed until the car was at the assembly plant?

Do we have anyone on the boards who works/worked at Tonowanda? Distributors were installed to obtain and maintain TDC. I don't believe they were test 'run' with fuel and spark, as on an engine stand, but aside from being pressure tested and hot tested for leaks could be they were spun over to adjust valve lash and such before being drained of water and oil before shipping.

Did they "test run" the cars at the assembly plant? Lots of stuff can go wrong building an engine, so I would think they had to run them at least to break the cam in. It raises a lot of questions.

My understanding was the engine plant installed everything accept the accessories and carb like Bill Rose mentioned earlier. The assembly plant would determine that once they build the car that needs the proper type of engine and its accessories. Whether its a low performance engine, one that needs an AC compressor and/or PS pump, or a high performance engine with the proper 4 bbl carb needed.

Agree on the distributor being installed and the exhaust manifolds. It seems the exhaust manifolds were installed before the engine was painted Was the distributor installed and TDC determined before the engine was painted or after engine was painted?

I have had original distributors with orange overspray around the base. Somewhere I've seen the instructions on how to mark the distributor with the intake, like a stake mark....if you've noticed original distributors they have a mark at the base where it meets the manifold, like a screwdriver or chisel mark. There is a corresponding mark on the intake.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/69-Camaro-Chevelle-SS-350-Distributor-1111489-489-9J9_W0QQitemZ110396684388QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors _Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item19b427b864&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1171%7C240%3A131 8

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Camaro-Z28-DZ-302-290hp-Engine-Distributor-1111480_W0QQitemZ200355297246QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMo tors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2ea61b37 de&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1171%7C240%3A131 8

These distributors have both orange overspray, and the stake mark on them...

Let's carry this "paint" theme a little farther. Below is a cutout of a picture posted earlier in this thread. Two things come to mind:

1) - the entire exhaust manifolds are painted.
2) - the water pump bypass hose has no orange paint (at least to my eye).

Now it seems these days the ultimate restoration on a late 60's BB engine only has a slight overspray on the exhaust manifolds near the heads and a lot of paint on the bypass hose. Did things change from the late 50's (which is probably this picture) to the mid and late 60's :confused:

I've been told light spray ont the exhaust manifolds (but then how did they cover the spark plug area of the heads?) and possibly a little on the chrome valve covers as a cover was used to set over the valve covers didn't always do it's job real good. And light to heavy over spray on the by pass hose.

What year did they start using clutch fans ??

1958 according to my parts book.