Gents,
In my opinion Global West and Hotchkiss and Fatman A arms are priced too high. Considering that tubular a arms for the hot rod scene and 55-57 crowd can be had for around half of what we have to pay, something isn't right here and, in my opinion we are getting gouged and shouldn't put up with it!

I contacted a retailer of A Arms for hot rod parts. Asking if they could make them for Chevelles. The guy said he'd do a special run if he can get an order of 20 or more.

Here's a link to the web site where you can look at the ones they have for hot rods:
http://www.westcentralauto.com/prod01.htm

Let me know if you are interested!

Steve

------------------
My opinions are usually worth what they cost you. But once in a while I know what I am talking about. Humor, fun, a few new friends, and good ole knowledge of these classics are why I am here. Your mileage may vary. ACES # 04981

I would be interested if the price is right and it would allow the same benefits of the tall spindle conversion like GW's.I think if someone made them cheaper and of equal quality it would put a dent in GW's/Hotchkis sales and force them to lower the price.

I agree that the prices are outrageous on these items. I've heard all the arguments about R&D, but I don't buy it.

I have to give credit where it's due. Global West has really done their homework on suspension geometry, spring rates, and alignment specs. Their del-a-lum bushings are awesome. The .96 skid pad test without a rear sway bar on the '65 was killer. I also believe that Global West's suspension system is worth the money for someone looking for the most awesome a-body G-machine on the planet.

But the reality here is that many of us aren't ever gonna drive our cars hard enough to pull .96 G's. We're just looking for an economical way to get decent caster and camber on a tall spindle conversion without using two inches of shim stacks.

So spending over $400 just for arms to accomplish this is ridiculous. I see that Hotchkis has gone up to over $500 for their arms! They must be awfully proud of them.

I'm planning to fabricate a jig this week so I can make my own tubular arms. It's not rocket science. I have a certified welder to do the tig work and will have it x-rayed before it goes on my car. I figure my cost for a pair will be under $100.

I'd gladly pay ~$200 for a pair of arms if I weren't equipped to make my own.

------------------
My Web Page (http://www.landry-family.com) (updated 11-02-02)

"Long Live Freedom!"

Chad Landry
TC Member #643
ACES Member #4556
'68 El Camino

[This message has been edited by cjlandry (edited 11-09-2002).]

It's very tempting. I'm doing a B-Body spindle swap too. Would they use stock bushings? (then I could call up PST for some PolyGraphites http://www.chevelles.com/forum/cool.gif )

I'd be interested definitely. Clandry, if the arms you're having made work out, would you be willing to have some more made? I mean if I sent some money over.

I just went to the swap meet out in Springfield, OH and there is a guy there out of IN who might be able to fabricate tubular A-arms for $200 a set (both sides). I am going to call them after Veteran's Day and see if they can do this. I'll keep you guys posted. He was selling full Nova 2 front frame and steering rack assemblies, and they included custom A-arms. Hopefully the answer is yes!!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 19Chevelle70:
I'd be interested definitely. Clandry, if the arms you're having made work out, would you be willing to have some more made? I mean if I sent some money over.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not gonna commit to anything yet. For one thing, I have to check into liability issues before I share these things. I figure the x-rayed welds will be a big plus, but I still want to be sure.

Also, I don't want to put a damper on getting a buying group together.

Check your inbox.

Thanks,

Chad



[This message has been edited by cjlandry (edited 11-09-2002).]

I have a small amount of cash and would be intrested. Those prices are getting higher and their costs haven't risen that much.

Anyone have a set of the uppers from GW or Hotchkis that we could "benchmark" off of? Just to see where we need to be?

Joe

------------------
The Chevelle Page (http://www.geocities.com/diels12000)

Well I just found another source already making them for Chevelles! Someone caught on and jumped on the band wagon.

Check out: http://www.mcgaughysclassic.com/newproducts.htm

Looks like the price is $239 Reasonable!

Steve

[This message has been edited by Steve_69 (edited 11-10-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Steve_69 (edited 11-10-2002).]

I'm curious as to whether those arms are built to stock specs or if they're built with corrected camber and caster for the tall spindle conversion.

------------------
My Web Page (http://www.landry-family.com) (updated 11-02-02)

"Long Live Freedom!"

Chad Landry
TC Member #643
ACES Member #4556
'68 El Camino

Steve_69,
Would lowers count as part of the 20? If so, I'm interested.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve_69:
Well I just found another source already making them for Chevelles! Someone caught on and jumped on the band wagon.

Check out: http://www.mcgaughysclassic.com/newproducts.htm

Looks like the price is $239 Reasonable!

Steve

[This message has been edited by Steve_69 (edited 11-10-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Steve_69 (edited 11-10-2002).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


it's easy to see that those are stock replacements. the ball joint mounting is the same. those are not for the tall spindel conversion style ball joint with the correct taper.

i am ready to buy uppers for the onversion any day now and am very interested in being one of the 20 needed.


------------------
I couldn't repair my brakes, so I made my horn louder.
Just let me apolagize for my spelling right now!
www.EINSTYN.com (http://www.EINSTYN.com) TC Gold#1460, VCEA#2, SCPC#44
68-72 Wagon resto & mod info, parts & sales.

There is a company outside of Rockford,Il called LeftHander Chasis they make all kinds of parts for circle track cars. A while back ago I talked to them about copying the GW arm and they said it would be no problem just send them a set. At the time he was talking about 45-50 per arm. I believe that waas just the bare arm no bushings/crsosshaft or ball joint but if I remmebr correctly he said he could make it work with a stock cross shaft and stock upper ball joint.They have been around for years and in my opinion if their parts are good enough for circle track racing I'm pretty comfortable using them on a street car. I don't have a phone number handy but I believe it is in the 815 area code. If you are interested give em a call.

Sending them GW arms to copy seems unethical to me. I wouldn't do such a thing.

What would seem right is figuring the dimensions needed and giving them the specs on it. Then have them make 'em for you.

I have also talked to a dirt track chassis company about something like this. It hasn't been ruled out.

I know what you mean about them surviving under circle track conditions. That's a testament to their strength. They would, however, need a durable finish to survive the rigors of a daily driver.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cjlandry:
Sending them GW arms to copy seems unethical to me. I wouldn't do such a thing.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chad,
You'd be surprised with what goes on. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif

I bet that GW and Hotchkis, both have attained each other's product to "improve" on the other's design.

Joe

PS Ever wonder why Coca-Cola never patents their soda formula?

------------------
The Chevelle Page (http://www.geocities.com/diels12000)

OK, let me rephrase:

I would never publicly admit to doing such a thing. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif

If they are the same specs of the GW ones than I will take a pair. I am going to do the tall spindle swap. Keep me posted. Thanks!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cjlandry:
OK, let me rephrase:

I would never publicly admit to doing such a thing. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFL

http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif

That's the spirit!

Joe

------------------
The Chevelle Page (http://www.geocities.com/diels12000)

Looks like the ones for McGaughy's are stock as a couple of you suspected. They don't have any for tall spindles yet. The lady said to check back in about a month.

So we are back to getting a head count on how many want these tubular A arms from a special order.

Keep posting your name here if you want them and I will count them up shortly.

Steve

I would be interested in a set for a tall-spindle setup.

Put me on the "MAYBE" side of the list... I am doing a tall-spindle conversion on a really tight budget.

We do race circle track cars and one of them is a Chevelle. We use the tublar Arms, you can get these for $40-45 each from a circle track vendor. We get them in different sizes for camber gain (both +/-) since we drop the ride hieghts so much. When you order these arms all you need is a ball joint, other than that they are stell bushings with grease fittings.
Speedwaymotors.com
Afco.com


------------------
383 SBC 69 Chevelle 410HP/500Ft.lbs
Citrus Heights, CA
Team Chevelle Member #1070
http://www.x86Racing.com (Dave Silva 03)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dave_silva:
We do race circle track cars and one of them is a Chevelle. We use the tublar Arms, you can get these for $40-45 each from a circle track vendor. We get them in different sizes for camber gain (both +/-) since we drop the ride hieghts so much. When you order these arms all you need is a ball joint, other than that they are stell bushings with grease fittings.
Speedwaymotors.com
Afco.com


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dave,
Do you break a lot of these arms?

Joe

------------------
The Chevelle Page (http://www.geocities.com/diels12000)

Steve, I don't want to step on your toes since you have a good thing going - but I didn't get a chance to talk to you this weekend after going to the swap meet in Springfield. If you can get them cheap from the guy you are dealing with, consider me in as well.

Anyways, I talked to my buddy who circle track races and he says that the Afco arms that he gets won't work for Chevelles, he even talked to the Afco guy and said that the specs we want aren't the universal width (I think we would want like 6.5 inches across and they are 6 or vice versa). Dave, has the Chevelle that you race been modified to accept different arms? Either way, there is a place in Indiana that will make us custom arms for $200 a set or $225 with ball joints. Steve, how much does the price come down if we order 20 sets from your guy? I might be able to get this guy to come down more, the price above is for one set. We also need to figure out the dimensions for these guys so we get one to accept the taller spindles.
The contact info:
Checkered Racing
Jeff Blevins
(812)279-6972

[This message has been edited by paulymuller (edited 11-11-2002).]

Keep me informed about what you guys come up with. I'm interested in a pair,too.

------------------
Clint Hooper
ACES #1650
Wichita Falls,Tx
69 El Camino
91 Callaway Aerobody ZR-1

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 72SSAbody:
I bet that GW and Hotchkis, both have attained each other's product to "improve" on the other's design.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


If they have and I bet they do, hotchkis sure has some catching up to do. Higher priced and less of a product for sure.

Cool deal you guys got going. I already have the GW's but I would like to see what you guys end up getting / doing. Most likely it will be a better deal and just as good equip. as thats my luck. The fact that I purchased already means you guys will come up wiht something killer. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif


------------------
'70 SS 396
4spd, 4.10's and a smile
TC# 1341
ACES# 5388
Beaux
The SS (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/btmyss.JPG)
The Rat (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/btmill.JPG)
Interior (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/midint.JPG)

Life is a gateway drug that leads to Chevelle addiction.

I might be interested... I want to put my tall-spindles on, but I really don't think I will need to gat anything like 0.96g's on the skid pad...I am not getting that crazy...

I wish someone else (other than GW and Fat Man) would make the lower arms... But Hotchkis told me there was too much strain (and therefore too much liability) so they were not making lowers...

That makes me wonder about "cheaper" upper arms... I do agree that GW and Hotchkis are too expensive, but sometimes, you get what you pay for...safety...

------------------

"Once you go RAT, you never go back..."
TC #1366
Tony
The Chevelle (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/1966_L78/ChevelleA.jpg)
Dual Quad 396 (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/1966_L78/ChevelleC.jpg)
Side View (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/1966_L78/ChevelleD.jpg)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1966_L78:
That makes me wonder about "cheaper" upper arms... I do agree that GW and Hotchkis are too expensive, but sometimes, you get what you pay for...safety...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting that thousand upon thousands of street rods and 55-57 Chevy's can have safe tubular upper A arms for half the price of what we are being charged then!

I don't think Safety is the reason myself.

Speaking of safety....does anyone know what factor of safety are designed into suspension systems/components?

Joe

------------------
The Chevelle Page (http://www.geocities.com/diels12000)

You can count me in on a set of tubular uppers if you can get anything going on the volume deal. Otherwise I'll spend for the Hotchkis arms.


Tim

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1966_L78:
That makes me wonder about "cheaper" upper arms... I do agree that GW and Hotchkis are too expensive, but sometimes, you get what you pay for...safety...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Then,don't ever magnaflux or zyglo your stock A-arms. What you find will most likely scare you. I had an stock upper arm fail on my 68 El Camino,,not a pretty sight. That wasn't the bad part,though. I went through five used arms before I found a useable one. The rest all failed inspection and would have been an accident waiting to happen.



------------------
Clint Hooper
ACES #1650
Wichita Falls,Tx
69 El Camino
91 Callaway Aerobody ZR-1

We also would be interested, however, safety would/should be our/your number one concern.

If they are the same "QUALITY" as others mentioned in this post, then count us in.


------------------
Team Members Forever #341

Richard, Judy, MAXX2

'69 Elke (Frame Off); GM HO 350/330-Mildly Ported Vortec Heads-Manley Severe Duty SS 2.02/1.60 Valves, Comp Cams Full Roller Package (Magnum)-Custom Grind CS 3315/3316 HR112-.510/.520 Lift, Edelbrock Air-Gap W/750 Performer Manual Choke-Performer 100 HP NOS, March Pulleys, 4L60 (Non Computer) W/Lokar Shifter, 12 Bolt Posi.

The only reason we have changed them is if we hit a wall! (alot of stuff breaks when you hit the wall) We have had to modify for my camaro but no the Chevelle. THere are several companys making these arm. Look at " TARGET=_blank>www.speedwaymotors.com (http://www.speedwaymotors.com<A HREF=)[URL=http://www.speedwaymotors.com</A> they have a table of the different styles and sizes. I can't remeber exactly where we bought the last ones for the Chevelle. The Camaro ones I just got from Afco.


Thanks
Dave

------------------
383 SBC 69 Chevelle 410HP/500Ft.lbs
Citrus Heights, CA
Team Chevelle Member #1070
http://www.x86Racing.com (Dave Silva 03)

[This message has been edited by dave_silva (edited 11-12-2002).]

[This message has been edited by dave_silva (edited 11-12-2002).]

[This message has been edited by dave_silva (edited 11-12-2002).]

As far as safety is concerned, I agree with whoever stated that the street rods have been running 'em safe for years.

From there, it's a question of the quality of the materials, precision of fitting, and quality of welds.

I just can't imagine Global West or Hotchkis being more skilled than other manufacturers at fitting and welding. That leaves us with a question of the quality of materials.

Make sure they use the proper tubing, and the rest takes care of itself.

I also agree that any properly welded tubular arm would be superior to the stamped steel that we currently run on our cars.

I found the number for LEFTHANDER and will call them tommorrow and see what they can do for us and will post back tommorrow night.

Lefthander Chassis are pretty expensive on some of there parts. They mark them up quite a bit. There are a couple other companys in teh circle track mags that sell these arms for under $50 with several sizes and sytles to choose from. They even have the all thread ones that are adjustable uppers that allow for camber caster changes by just twisting the tubes that are on the all threads. I am pretty sure that they sell some rear arms as well, though I haven't tried them since me modify our own.

Dave

------------------
383 SBC 69 Chevelle 410HP/500Ft.lbs
Citrus Heights, CA
Team Chevelle Member #1070
http://www.x86Racing.com (Dave Silva 03)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dave_silva:
They even have the all thread ones that are adjustable uppers that allow for camber caster changes by just twisting the tubes that are on the all threads.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Checkout http://groups.msn.com/70MonteCarlo/tallspindle.msnw

and http://www.polepositionrp.com/racing.html



------------------
R.J.
1972 Chevelle
TC Member #1525
RJ's website (http://www.buffnet.net/~airrj/)
2003 Northern Chevelle Gathering (http://www.angelfire.com/folk/canam/page35.html)

Those "all thread" arms look like the ticket! It would be so nice to be able to adjust caster and camber without shims!

I'm seriously considering this alternative.

Nice website RJ http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif



------------------
The Chevelle Page (http://www.geocities.com/diels12000)

I think that they are a very cool alternative. The only concern I have is with the amount of fore/aft deflection due to the amount of bolted connections. If these points could be closely controled I think it would be a cool arm. Cesar seems to like them. The bump stop issue can be fixed with a Hotchkis type plate that hits the factory mount.

Also these arms would likely be a good fix for people with sagging frames. You can effectively lengthen or shorten your arms for your needed cameber adjustment.

Once again, just another idea to muddy up the waters.

------------------
R.J.
1972 Chevelle
TC Member #1525
RJ's website (http://www.buffnet.net/~airrj/)
2003 Northern Chevelle Gathering (http://www.angelfire.com/folk/canam/page35.html)

[This message has been edited by airrj (edited 11-13-2002).]

holey control arms batman! those are it! i heard choir music when i saw them! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/biggrin.gif these should solve frame sag problems too! like airrj said above. what is this "Hotchkis type plate that hits the factory mount" your talking about?

------------------
I couldn't repair my brakes, so I made my horn louder.
Just let me apolagize for my spelling right now!
www.EINSTYN.com (http://www.EINSTYN.com) TC Gold#1460, VCEA#2, SCPC#44
68-72 Wagon resto & mod info, parts & sales.

i just talked to pole possition. they said they could do a "team chevelle" price for $139.96 each that would be $280 a pair. i dont know how does that sound? to the guy that used these are they working fine?

On the Hotchkis A-arms they have a plate that bolts under the ball joint mounting point. They also supply a short flat snubber to go in the same location as the factory bump stop. The plate then hits the snubber at full travel. Checkout http://www.buffnet.net/~airrj/images/MyChevelle/CBB/hose2.jpg

There are a few other photos on that page that you can see the bump stop in them.

------------------
R.J.
1972 Chevelle
TC Member #1525
RJ's website (http://www.buffnet.net/~airrj/)
2003 Northern Chevelle Gathering (http://www.angelfire.com/folk/canam/page35.html)

The all threads ones are used in the higher divisions around here. They are put on some serious stress (20' banks on a 1/4 on the out side track with 400-500HP modifieds and late models). My uncles Southwest Tour car has the same ones and that has 12" slicks with 700HP conering at about 100mph oh a 1/2 track. I don't think that they have any or too much deflection. I have never had to setup a car with "extra" caster or camber to allow for flexing. In my opinion they are plenty durable. The ones I got from Afco that are not adjustable are made with a 1" .065-.095 wall, beefy enough. They have never concerned me as being a weak link in my suspensions.

Dave

------------------
383 SBC 69 Chevelle 410HP/500Ft.lbs
Citrus Heights, CA
Team Chevelle Member #1070
http://www.x86Racing.com (Dave Silva 03)

sorry Steve_69. did not mean to steel the post. i am going to start a new one. you sure got th ears cranking. i want to go with the pole possition ones. they give much more adjustability which woul cover any frame conditions.

I had my buddy check out that Pole Position racing a while ago (someone has a web page that shows those upper a arms and where to get them at to use while doing the brake swap) and he said that they were $139 each then too....are you sure that the "Team Chevelle Price" isn't the normal price? Just wondering, I don't want anyone to get ripped off. I was considering those, though, since they are adjustable and will fit anything.

I pulled this right off of their web page:
9200 Adjustable Upper Control Arm
7"-9" / steelcs / bolt-in plate $139.95 ea.

92005 Adjustable Upper Control Arm
8 1/4"-10" / alum. cs / bolt-in plate $139.95 ea.

I don't think we're getting any sort of break there...but still cheaper than GW or Hotchkis

[This message has been edited by paulymuller (edited 11-13-2002).]

Well Steve_69, do you have a final count? Are we going to get the deal?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by paulymuller:
I had my buddy check out that Pole Position racing a while ago (someone has a web page that shows those upper a arms and where to get them at to use while doing the brake swap) and he said that they were $139 each then too....are you sure that the "Team Chevelle Price" isn't the normal price? Just wondering, I don't want anyone to get ripped off. I was considering those, though, since they are adjustable and will fit anything.

I pulled this right off of their web page:
9200 Adjustable Upper Control Arm
7"-9" / steelcs / bolt-in plate $139.95 ea.

92005 Adjustable Upper Control Arm
8 1/4"-10" / alum. cs / bolt-in plate $139.95 ea.

I don't think we're getting any sort of break there...but still cheaper than GW or Hotchkis.

[This message has been edited by paulymuller (edited 11-13-2002).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well Now!!!!!!!!

What Does This Mean In Relation to GW And/Or Hotchkis Pricing?

Or, Are "WE TEAM MEMBERS" Comparing Apples To Oranges?

Or, Have Some Of Our Team Members Found Something?

If The Product Is The Same, And The Durability Is The Same, And "WE TEAM MEMBERS" Get An Equal (Or Better?) Product, Then This Just Might Tell Us Something!?

Maybe? Maybe Not?

Just Our 2 Cents.




------------------
Team Members Forever #341

Richard, Judy, MAXX2

'69 Elke (Frame Off); GM HO 350/330-Mildly Ported Vortec Heads-Manley Severe Duty SS 2.02/1.60 Valves, Comp Cams Full Roller Package (Magnum)-Custom Grind CS 3315/3316 HR112-.510/.520 Lift, Edelbrock Air-Gap W/750 Performer Manual Choke-Performer 100 HP NOS, March Pulleys, 4L60 (Non Computer) W/Lokar Shifter, 12 Bolt Posi.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fast71ss@aol.com:
Well Steve_69, do you have a final count? Are we going to get the deal?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will post how many are still interested here shortly. Looks like we have been side tracked a time or two by several people, including myself, ...while looking for the best deals/products.

So I guess I will have to ask ...if anyone that has stated they are interested in the original deal for tubular A arms for around $230 changed their minds? or is everyone still on board with this deal? I'll take a count on names we have after this.

Steve

------------------
My opinions are usually worth what they cost you. But once in a while I know what I am talking about. Humor, fun, a few new friends, and good ole knowledge of these classics are why I am here. Your mileage may vary. ACES # 04981

i truely am sorry for splitting this up but i think it is of intrest to all of us.
the price is for the street version which uses rubber bushings. not the cheeper solid pivit type. thats why they are the same price, normally they would be more.
i really think these adjustable ones are the way to go. my biggest reason is because it allows you to bolt the crosshaft directly to the frame with no shimms. this not only gives you the maximum clearene to headers and steering shaft, but if moves the pivit point of the control arm closer to the ball joint (equating in a shorter arm),(which gives you the benefit of having the tall spindels) taking full advaantage of the negative camber. which means your tires make more contact with the road on a turn!
if i go this way , which i think i am, i plan on using safety wire on the nuts and locktight to eliminate the concern of anything coming loose. these use thin walled rubber bushings and standard ball joints. they come with the cros shafts. i would look closer on how to insure the suspension travel gets limited befor over extending the ball joints, once i install them.

------------------
I couldn't repair my brakes, so I made my horn louder.
Just let me apolagize for my spelling right now!
www.EINSTYN.com (http://www.EINSTYN.com) TC Gold#1460, VCEA#2, SCPC#44
68-72 Wagon resto & mod info, parts & sales.

I am still in if we are going to get the deal. Steve_69, you should post an add in the parts for sale section and see if you can get some more people interested.

I am still in if we are going to get the deal. Someone should post an add in the parts section to see if we can get some more people interested.

If my messages are showing up more than once, i am sorry. I am having trouble posting replys, something about flood control?

I am definately in on the deal if it happens. I have been bouncing back and forth between which arms to get for my elky. So the price is definately right. Count me in.

Tim

I'm still undecided, but leaning more towards using the stock arms. Sorry guys.

if your using the tall spindel, you will not reap the benifits of the new geometry by using the stock arms. the other arms like GW dont give you the adjustability for all conditions. what would you do if you put it all together and you need to change the cross shaft or you cant get the alignment right. the adjustable one will handle all situations. and they give you the shortest arm possible by not useing any shims at all. the cross shaft bolts right to the frame and the arms do the adjusting.

It seems like there is too much stuff to work out with both the stock and adjustables. I will go with a pair of these GW type tubulars if we can get the deal.

Hey Steve, just read what's going on, sounds good, count me in.

I am just responding to get this post to the top of the page to see if we can get some more people interested. Is there a final count yet? Even if we do not have 20, I am sure the company would get enough people over time to make it worth their while.

I'm still interested in a group purchase,if it comes off.

Again, as with the BMR Group Purchases, this is what this site is all about.

Team Members discussing details, strengths, weaknessess of various items for "OUR" Hobby.

Just Great! What else could all of us ask for?

Because we need to convert to front disks, we would be in. We do need to lower the front of the '69 another 2" however, so we hope this works with 2" dropped spindles (We have heard that the tall spindle conversion will only lower the front 1". Is that true?

We will always only go with a 15" front rim, if that helps in some of the replys to this post.


------------------
Team Members Forever #341

Richard, Judy, MAXX2

'69 Elke (Frame Off); GM HO 350/330-Mildly Ported Vortec Heads-Manley Severe Duty SS 2.02/1.60 Valves, Comp Cams Full Roller Package (Magnum)-Custom Grind CS 3315/3316 HR112-.510/.520 Lift, Edelbrock Air-Gap W/750 Performer Manual Choke-Performer 100 HP NOS, March Pulleys, 4L60 (Non Computer) W/Lokar Shifter, 12 Bolt Posi., Full Aluminum Bed With Full Tubs, Aluminum Firewall, Custom Aluminum Dash/Gauge Bezel.

Richard,
A one inch drop for tall spindles is what I have read as well.

What I haven't seen addressed is what happens after you get the one inch drop that way....and then you use a shorter coil spring?

Amen to your assesment. Guys brainstorming to come up with the best answer and information being made public.

Only in America.... and the terrorists want us to convert to Muslim and drive Toyota Trucks.
Steve

------------------
My opinions are usually worth what they cost you. But once in a while I know what I am talking about. Humor, fun, a few new friends, and good ole knowledge of these classics are why I am here. Your mileage may vary. ACES # 04981

I know what people have read about the tall spindle's amount of drop.

I'm gonna post the actual results when I get home from work. Mine looks to be a bit more than 1". Closer to 2". I didn't measure anything before I swapped it, but I have pictures so you can judge for yourself.

hi guy's, i see you have got quite a heated discussion going on. i have installed the gw arms with the tall spindle. i did try using stock arms with shims and offset shafts. it would not work because the drivers side arm contacted the steering shaft before proper allignment could be achieved. on went the gw's. the car is a 65 elco, but i think a stock arm with offset shaft would work on a 68-72 car. i believe the frames are 1" wider than mine. this would allow the room for full adjustment. the tall spindles also moved my wheels out board about 1/2" per side. i would want the adjustable arms to use on my next project. the gw arms do not adjust well if you lower the car. count me in. tom

Like Chad, I dropped almost 2" Up front with stock coils and a-arms with the tall spindles.

------------------
David Reinecke - aka - FINE 68
1968 Chevelle 300 Sport Coupe Deluxe
http://home.att.net/~thereineckes/

Steve
Count me in also for a pair of uppers for the tall spindle swap. Darn good looking set of arms. Will go great with the BMR's on the back. I'm glad you posted it, I've been off the site for a while and almost missed out.

Ok time for a count. Here's who I THINK I have as saying they want in on this buy of 20:

1. Steve_69
2. 70isfine
3. 19Chevelle70
4. Dave Seitz
5. FO_FDYFO
6. DerekF
7. Clint44
8. TimG
9. LVMAXX
10. bddj89
11. TLowe
12. Chevl71
13. Fast71SS

Looks like we need some more guys. Have any friends that would be interested?

Steve

I think FO_FDYFO went with the adjustables instead. He is the one that started the other post. Even if we cannot get the deal, I was looking at the GW site. For $525, they have a kit that includes all the balljoints, and tie rods, ect. that are needed for the swap. It is not a bad deal if you look at it. Buying the arms alone is where they screw ya. If we dont get the deal, I will just throw down the big bucks for the GW kit.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tlowe:
i would want the adjustable arms to use on my next project. the gw arms do not adjust well if you lower the car. count me in. tom<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tom, I think you're signing up for the wrong list...the group order is not for adjustables.

for more about the adjustables, look here http://www.chevelles.com/forum/Forum7/HTML/005021.html These are a bit more money, but way cheaper than GWs.

Hey i want them too! Put me on the list!

Olli

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[O]==+==[O]

71 2-door Chevelle Malibu (http://www.donmega.de)

"You can't impregnate me with all your foreign words!!"

yeah, i'm off the list. the adjustables give so much adjustability that would allow for my 2" lower springs and my 1" drop tall spindels that the ridgid arms might not be able to handle. i dont know but i like the versitility of the adjustable arms. i also like not using any shims. i have clearence issues with the big block header and steerinhg rod i'd like to keep far away from. probably not a big deal. they just make more sence to me. sorry guys. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

------------------
I couldn't repair my brakes, so I made my horn louder.
Just let me apolagize for my spelling right now!
www.EINSTYN.com (http://www.EINSTYN.com) TC Gold#1460, VCEA#2, SCPC#44
68-72 Wagon resto & mod info, parts & sales.

Do you have any rough pictures of what the arms might look like I might be interested. what would the final price be and what type of bushings would they use? I would want to retain my polygraphite bushings of some sorts.Let me know

------------------
70 Chevelle 406/700R4

derek is right i'm looking for the adjustable arms. take me off the list. tom

I want adjustable arms,too. Hope my pulling out doesn't screw the deal.

I sent the retailer the link to this thread. He contacted the manufacturer with the info and they had a few more questions that I THINK I answered for you.

If you have questions about them go ahead and ask them here.

Here's the link to the web page:
http://www.westcentralauto.com/prod01.htm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cjlandry:
I know what people have read about the tall spindle's amount of drop.

I'm gonna post the actual results when I get home from work. Mine looks to be a bit more than 1". Closer to 2". I didn't measure anything before I swapped it, but I have pictures so you can judge for yourself.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Chad;

Saw your other post with the pictures, but you haven't stated which arms you used.



------------------
Team Members Forever #341

Richard, Judy, MAXX2

'69 Elke (Frame Off); GM HO 350/330-Mildly Ported Vortec Heads-Manley Severe Duty SS 2.02/1.60 Valves, Comp Cams Full Roller Package (Magnum)-Custom Grind CS 3315/3316 HR112-.510/.520 Lift, Edelbrock Air-Gap W/750 Performer Manual Choke-Performer 100 HP NOS, March Pulleys, 4L60 (Non Computer) W/Lokar Shifter, 12 Bolt Posi., Full Aluminum Bed With Full Tubs, Aluminum Firewall, Custom Aluminum Dash/Gauge Bezel.

I have these 2 questions:

1) Will these arms work with springs that lower the car further (in my case, 1")

2) What does the "mounting hardware" entail? I know it includes ball joints, but what about outer tie rods, bolts, etc.?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LVMAXX:

Chad;

Saw your other post with the pictures, but you haven't stated which arms you used.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Here's a link to my original post on this after completing the job. (I used the original upper arms).
http://www.chevelles.com/forum/Forum7/HTML/005014.html

The upper arms won't affect the amount of drop that your car will have. That's controlled by the spindles, lower arms, and springs.

Since the tall spindles raise the upper ball joint higher than stock, the upper arms sit at a higher angle than normal. David Reinecke had to notch his inner fenders a bit to keep 'em from hitting under load.

Of course, looking at the geometry, the upper arms will angle up even higher with lowering springs. This will make the ball joint go toward the inner limit of it's travel. I'd say bump stops are a necessity to keep the ball joint from "bottoming out" on itself.

I'm making the jig for my tubulars based on my car at rest on the suspension. The center of the front cross-shaft mounting bolt is 19" from the ground. The rear mounting bolt is 17-7/8" from the ground. The top of the spindle is 18½" from the ground. Next I need to check the angle of the spindle so I can angle the upper ball joint accordingly.

paulymuller, I see no reason why those arms won't work for you.

Mounting hardware for the swap includes quite a bit. Go to dreinecke's page (http://home.att.net/~thereineckes/Chevelle/chevelleindex.html) for the specifics. I modeled my swap on his information. I kept the 12mm lug studs rather than changing over to 7/16". Other than that, I copied it almost exactly.

------------------
My Web Page (http://www.landry-family.com) (updated 11-02-02)

"Long Live Freedom!"

Chad Landry
TC Member #643
ACES Member #4556
'68 El Camino

If that's the case (and those arms will work) then you can put me down for them Steve. I'd still like an answer from the manufacturer on what the "mounting hardware" entails.

Count me in for a set of tubular upper A arms, will be doing the B spindle swap on 70 EL Camino

Are there really that much better? I'd like an upgrade in performance but i just don't like the way they look.

Has anyone asked them about a bump-stop to prevent the ball joint from binding? What type of bushings are in them? I think this photo shows the potential problem. Will the ball joint become damaged? http://www.westcentralauto.com/P5140013.jpg

I don't want to email them if they've answered it a dozen times already.

I am interested!

Ok,
Here's the revised list. Is this still correct?

1. Steve_69
2. 70isfine
3. 19Chevelle70
4. Dave Seitz
5. Pauly Muller
6. DerekF
7. 70 Mino
8. TimG
9. LVMAXX
10. bddj89
11. Taspeed
12. Chevl71
13. Fast71SS
14. 71velle_malibu

Here is a link to the vendor's site if you still have questions: http://www.westcentralauto.com/prod01.htm

The guy I have been talking to is Eric. You can e-mail him direct at: Eric Johnson cobraguy@centurytel.net

Make sure you mention these are Tubular A arms for Chevelle, a special buy of 20.

Steve

Ok, we have fourteen people. Do you think the company will give us the deal? Even if they do not get 20 buyers right now, I am sure that they would get enough people in the future that want A-body parts that it would be worth their time. I need to get these parts ASAP so that I can get my SS back on the road. My family is starting to get mad that I am using up all the garage space. If we cant get the deal I am going to spend my green on a set of GW's. Let me know. Thanks!

I just sent him an E-mail asking him to check this out. We'll see what they have to say.

Hopefully some other guys will consider this now and chime in here now that Turkey day is over and they are back home.

Steve

I am sorry to break up the group, but I think I will be going with the adjustable arms from the other post. I just can't wait any longer for the arms. Plus, I like the idea that I know they will work for sure. Thanks anyway! Good luck guys.

When would this group buy take place?

If it's after the holidays, then I will more than likely be interested!

Also, a little confused...do they have a lower set available? (I like the adjustable uppers, but would love some tubular lowers to compliment http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif

------------------
I work to live, but make money for fun...when am I gonna start having fun?

John's '71 Malibu 383 (http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/johnr1.jpg)

[This message has been edited by John_R (edited 12-05-2002).]

Well,

Sorry to say, I am out of the deal. Bought some Global west arms. Their Kit is on sale right now and just couldnt pass up the 100 dollar savings.

Thanks,
Tim

Mighty interesting that they could have a sale that marks them down $100. That's what? ...almost 25% off their regular price? One heck of a "sale" !

I can assure you that no matter what, other manufacturers are looking at this now and see there is room for competition and still make a reasonable profit.

Reasonable being the key word there. There's nothing like good ole competition to bring prices down to "reasonable".

Being greedy just cost them some market share though when the other's gear up production. I'll wait and see who comes out with what products in the next few months.

Good luck on your choices. I know I will have to live with my decision and myself on that decision for several years.

I hope they come out with some chrome tubular, or stainless steel.

Steve

What's the latest scoop on these??

------------------
Clint Hooper
ACES #1650
Wichita Falls,Tx
69 El Camino (prostreet soon to be protourer)
91 Callaway Aerobody ZR-1

Let me know how much, I'm interested in buying a pair for my 1967 SS Chevelle

Hey count me in for sure as well,i need uppers and lowers,let me know what the deal is.

Thanks
George

I'll ask my contact again. I talked to the guy at Heidt's who does a lot of special manufacturing and they are working on some Camaro parts right now then plan on making these tubular A arms for Chevelles within the next few months.

I will send an e-mail out to this guy in the mean time and ask.

Steve

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clint44:
What's the latest scoop on these??

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DITTO!




------------------
Team Members Forever #341

Richard, Judy, MAXX2

'69 Elke (Frame Off); GM HO 350/330-Mildly Ported Vortec Heads-Manley Severe Duty SS 2.02/1.60 Valves, Comp Cams Full Roller Package (Magnum)-Custom Grind CS 3315/3316 HR112-.510/.520 Lift, Edelbrock Air-Gap W/750 Performer Manual Choke-Performer 100 HP NOS, March Pulleys, 4L60 (Non Computer) W/Lokar Shifter, 12 Bolt Posi., Full Aluminum Bed With Full Tubs, Aluminum Firewall, Custom Aluminum Dash/Gauge Bezel.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve_69:
[B]I talked to the guy at Heidt's who does a lot of special manufacturing and they are working on some Camaro parts right now then plan on making these tubular A arms for Chevelles within the next few months.
Steve
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Let's hope Heidts will not be producing them. They have the highest priced A-arms on the market.



------------------
Clint Hooper
ACES #1650
Wichita Falls,Tx
69 El Camino (prostreet soon to be protourer)
91 Callaway Aerobody ZR-1

My .02...
My project is in it's 10th year, has yet to have finish paint, and is getting new suspension parts. I am not rich, or it would have been done 7-8 years ago.

My observation...: Why is it that when it comes to safety components of the 10,000 hour hand-restored ride, that everyone is willing to skimp a few hundred dollars and risk damage/injury?

I waited 3 years at each level before getting my uppers and lowers from GW, and every confidence that they are not going to break, and have the piece of mind knowing that not only did I get a quality product at a fair price, the next guy I recommend them to will be just as satisfied.

Maybe it's because I'm in business for myself, and I have understanding for the costs involved in r/d, labor, and manufacturing, but these units are not overpriced from GW.

Sending GW arms into somebody for copying is a crime. I didn't read all the posts, but I saw that one, and didn't see any loud noise from the moderator.

Again, my .02.

Heidt's gets over $1200 for a set of Mustang II a-arms when everyone else charges around $700 for the same thing. Do you really think $1200 is reasonable? Sorry,I don't.
My post never said GW stuff was overpriced.

------------------
Clint Hooper
ACES #1650
Wichita Falls,Tx
69 El Camino (prostreet soon to be protourer)
91 Callaway Aerobody ZR-1

I agree that Global West's stuff isn't overpriced, if that's what you want. On the other hand, I don't believe the less expensive tubular arms are gonna be a safety problem for anyone.

When I was in the golf clubmaking business, I noticed a phenomenon called "perceived value". It's based on everyone's perception that "you get what you pay for".

So, everyone thought that a $1000 set of name brand irons would out-perform a $300 set of custom made irons fit to the individual golfer, his swing, and his game.

I knew a guy in the business who doubled the prices of his custom clubs and as a result tripled his customer base.

I'm sure you understand the point of this.

I have under $100 in my tubular arms (made 'em myself), and I'm sure they're as safe as anything made in the aftermarket.

------------------
My Web Page (http://www.landry-family.com) (updated 12-10-02)

"Long Live Freedom!"

Chad Landry
TC Member #643
ACES Member #4556
'68 El Camino

[This message has been edited by cjlandry (edited 01-02-2003).]

Well if my project was delayed by years because the price of parts was more than I should have to pay I'd be rather upset myself. In fact, I am and I am doing soemthing about it. Because in my opinion, the price could and should be lower for what they are. Case in point ....and this is a DOUBLE point ....

Here is the price of tubular upper A arms taken directly from Heidt's web site. I don't know where you get your prices from Clint44, but here's the facts:
------------------------------------------
Tubular Upper A-Arms, Plain CA-101 $249
Tubular Upper A-Arms, Stainless CA-101-SS $379
-----------------------------------------

The trouble is this is for Mustang II A arms. This is a REASONABLE price! I would gladly pay any company this price for tublar A arms for my Chevelle.

I know there is a lot of people out there with a lot of money to put on projects for whatever reason. I am not one of them. I have to watch my budget closly and I know a lot of other guys do. Just because you CAN charge and get that from some people, doesn't mean you should charge that price and hurt a lot of guys working on a budget.

One of the reason that Heidt's is reasonable is that there is now a lot of competition making these for Mustang II's. Thanks to overpricing by the big 2 here in the Chevelle world, there are about to be one or two more companies entering the competition and hopefully bringing the price down to "reasonable".

I have e-mailed my contact on this and I am waiting an updated reply now from his manufacturer. I am not sure who that is yet.

Steve

I just got an answer from him. Looks like competition is on the way!!! http://www.chevelles.com/forum/smile.gif

Don't ya just love the free market and capitolism? You see an opportunity and a demand and then supply it to make a profit.

If you don't trust them, or want to believe you always get more when you pay more, then your choice. I'll take my business to where I know I get what I pay for and don't pay too much for it thank you!
--------------------------------------
Steve...

I talked with Spartan today. They are going to start making these a-arms for Chevelles. I couldnt get an exact date though as to when. Im guessing in the next month or two. Once they contact me I will let you know or you can check with me in the future.
Thanks
Eric

-------------------------------------------

I'm so glad to hear that another company is gonna jump into this game!

A-body owners deserve an alternative. Thanks Steve for working to get us an alternative.

------------------
My Web Page (http://www.landry-family.com) (updated 12-10-02)

"Long Live Freedom!"

Chad Landry
TC Member #643
ACES Member #4556
'68 El Camino

I don't know exactly where this fits in as it is a whole kit that includes brakes, spindles, tubular upper arms, and basically all you need for a front end rebuild, but I got a front end kit from Hotrods to Hell in burbank about 2 years ago and I have been very pleased with the results.

Here is a link to the kit: http://www.hotrodstohell.net/front_suspension/kits/index.htm

Geoff

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve_69:
Here is the price of tubular upper A arms taken directly from Heidt's web site. I don't know where you get your prices from Clint44, but here's the facts:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry,Steve. Heidt's has obviously had a major price decrease lately. I paid $500 for a set of stainless upper & lower a-arms from another manufacturer awhile back. Heidt's price was more than double that,at the time.



------------------
Clint Hooper
ACES #1650
Wichita Falls,Tx
69 El Camino (prostreet soon to be protourer)
91 Callaway Aerobody ZR-1

Clint: No problem, I'll take your word they used to be a lot more expensive. Maybe the prices came down because competition moved in? http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif

CJ: My pleasure. Just pointed out the demand and opportunity, the guys here did the rest really by their postings. Having a manufacturer read what they wrote played a big part in that decision for them to go into production.

I also seen the FATMAN stuff. They make a lot of stuff for hot rods and looks like they are getting into Chevelle stuff now too, but prices are still higher for Chevelle stuff than what they should be in my opinion.

I KNOW that a lot of baby boomers are retiring and have some bucks and time on their hands and use hotrods as something to occupy their time and resources. I know a LOT of them spend big bucks on hot rods and parts. I think this is partly what is keeping some prices artifically high....because a lot of guys have big bucks to spend for high end parts they couldn't afford as a kid.

I know R&D, liability, taxes, employees, insurance and more come into play too for these manufacturers that stick their necks out to make a new product and hope it sells to make a profit. When it does go, if not enough competition is out there ....or they decide among themselves to artificially inflate prices to get more of those "boomer bucks", then greed takes over. But the little guys out there are getting crushed and out priced because of some of this.

My hat's off to the guys that find ways to make junk yard parts work and then share the info with us on web pages. Information exchange is the true power of the internet and the spirit of sharing and helping each other makes me glad to be a part of such a wonderful group of guys. Glad I could help.

Steve

Like i said i`m in as well,just let me know.


Thanks
George

Well,what did i miss? Did ya'll get'em graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Me too me too

Hey count me in if the price is right for uppers and lowers.

Thanks

I would also be interested.

Theo.

I had a phone call from the guy that IS going to make them. He asked me a few questions..but said he IS going into production.

I thought I heard where Heidts is going to start making them as well... but after he gets some Camaro A arms going.

We will likely hear something about these soon.

Steve

I hope you're talking with Larry at Spartan.

I spoke with him a few weeks ago and he sounded really enthusiastic about this. I hope it works out really well.

Hey guys,

I just run into this website:

http://www.barrettchassis.com/chevy_arm.htm

They sell the control arms to fit 12 inch brake spindles to A-body cars for $250.

What do you think???

I also found this site with some old magazine articles on the conversion. Lots of info!!!

http://members.tripod.com/CutlassFreak/discs.htm

Theo

I also found this website with A-arms ($270):

http://server3003.freeyellow.com/gparts/12brakekit.html

Will these arms work?

Disclaimer: I am new to this. So, if I make any mistakes... sorry...

Theo.

Theo
The parts from Robert Adams will not work on a 64-72 A body. They were designed for a later 78-87 g body.

This website says their control arms are for Chevelles:

http://www.barrettchassis.com/chevy_arm.htm

They sell the control arms to fit 12 inch brake spindles to A-body cars for $250.

What do you think about this one?

Theo

Theo, it looks similar to the ones I made. Skinnier tubing though.

I don't see a problem with them. I wonder if they use stock bushings and cross-shafts. I'd hate to know that I bought something like that and couldn't use off the shelf replacement parts.

Another source might be McGaughy's Classic Chevy:

http://www.mcgaughysclassic.com/newproducts.htm

They have A-frame for A-body cars. I am not sure if they are for the B-body spindles.

Theo.

The McCaughy's are for stock spindles. You'll find them referred to a few times early in this thread.

I dont know, some of those a-arms look weak. I am not saying the GW price is justified because of that, it just seem like the GW product is much more precise and refined. My thoughts....john

I dont know, some of those a-arms look weak. I think that has been my problem with tubular arms from the beginning. The stock arms just look so much stronger than the tube one.I'd like to get a stong a-arm setup but i just don't like the way they look.

Maybe if they put a skin on them to make'm look thicker. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I kept digging and I found this website. This person made his own A-arms. There is even a drawing. Maybe someone who can make one can contact him???

http://landry-family.com/arms.html

Theo.

He has already chimed in in the beginning of this thread.....cjlandry

I think GW arms are much stronger than stock. I bought them there is no comparison, i hope the arms on this thread are just as strong because i feel you get what you pay for.. that pic from theo does not look too strong to me, nor does the one everyone is buying on this thread, compared to GW. on the other hand i dont know if GW arms are overkill but they have these crossmember supports that make it stronger, and i dont know how strong you really need, but i would not want to risk cheaper parts on such a critical structural component.
Just my 2 cents from an amateur :D

frank

While the upper arms have a great deal of stress on them, the lowers have the real load. They carry the weight of the car. The uppers don't handle nearly as much.

Comparing stock uppers to tubulars can be misleading. My arms are much beefier than the stockers. I'm sure the GW arms are even stronger. The ones referenced earlier seem to have skinny tubing connecting the bushings to the balljoint, but I don't think it's gonna prove to be weak. I'd be more concerned if the lowers were made with skinny tubing.