Does anyone know if they make a tubular A arm that uses a stock spindle? I have a setup that I got from MP Brakes and I really dont want to scrap a brand new spindle/rotor/caliper setup so I can use tubular A arms. But it would be nice because I would like to have the camber change for the better handling that the tubulars give.

Global West and Fatman Fab. both sell tubular A-arms to fit the stock spindle.

Originally posted by 70 Elco Joe:
But it would be nice because I would like to have the camber change for the better handling that the tubulars give. The arms don't give anything toward better handling. The taller spindles give a better camber curve when suspension is compressed and some of the arms have more positive caster built into them but thats it. For better handling without swapping spindles I'd run taller balljoints.

Thats some good info to have. Any idea how I would find a taller ball joint, or if there is a certain car that swaps into it.

Thanks,
Joe

With the hotchkis a arms you have to run the taller spindles.I dont know about globel west.

alot of the circle track suppliers like speedway sell tall version ball joints for improving camber curve.

I must be looking in the wrong places because I cant seem to find anything. Has anyone tried making a spacer for the ball joint to accomplish this?

FatMan Fabricators is the company that makes tubular arms for stock spindles.

For circle track type ball joints, etc. try Speedway Motors. They have just about everything.

There is another company, can't remeber who right now that sells a spacer to raise the ball joint height.

Found them at Speedway motors, thanks guys. There must have been 100 companies named speedway.

Global West also makes Tubular "A" arms for stock spindle applications... I have a set on my '65. I am also running MP Brakes (JL8 setup) :eek:

Pro-Motorsports (http://www.pro-motorsports.com) has the spindle extenders that are supposed to help the camber curve. They're pricy though.

Peter

I am using McGaughys 2" drop spidle disc brake set up with upper tubular a arms. It cost 600 for that set up. It was complete with brake lines , pads, calipers, bushings etc. Good stuff. Might be an idea.

Thats a pretty good deal but doesn't do anything for camber gain as that drop spindle isnt the "tall" spindle that corrects Chevrolets mistake when designing the A body front-end. Good deal though if not looking for the ultimate in handling.

Originally posted by dennis68:
Thats a pretty good deal but doesn't do anything for camber gain as that drop spindle isnt the "tall" spindle that corrects Chevrolets mistake when designing the A body front-end. I beg to differ on your last statement. Chevrolet did not make a mistake when designing our front ends; they purposely designed in a positive camber gain so the car would "push" when driven hard-- this is far safer than designing a car with more front end traction which typically results in oversteer. Why? Because 95% of the public can't handle a car that oversteers and wouldn't know what to do when the rear end washed out. Designing in "push" is safer for the general public, and also probably good for GM in the liability and lawsuit department (think Corvair...) Heck, 99.9% of all cars today leave the factory setup for understeer, again, because in the hands of the public understeer is far more manageable and predictable.

I'll get off my soapbox now. No offense intended Dennis, it's just that Chevy designed our front suspension the way they did for a reason.

Anyways, tall spindles aren't really the ultimate in handling (due to the bumpsteer issues caused by the steering arm in a different location than the stock spindles) but they are the best option currently available to us A-body guys. The moment someone comes out with spindles for our cars with F/B-body height but a stock A-body steering arm length and location I will have a set on order. These will be the best options for our cars as you will then have the caster and negative camber gain of the tall spindle with none of the bumpsteer issues. Am I happy with my tall spindles? Yes. Would I like to correct the slight bumpsteer issue with them? You bet.

Troy

Thats the reason I bought the tubular upper arm so that it corrects the camber. Thats what was explained to me when I bought them. I will let you know when the car hits the ground.

Has anyone used the spindle extensions mentioned above? Seems like a pretty cool idea if it does what it says it will.

Ryan

I am using the spindle extenders. I believe they are made by Dr. Gas (?), the "X" pipe people. I like it. No complaints.

Theo.

Theo is your car stock height? I wanted to lower mine 2" or 3" and I was worrying about not having enought travel left in the balljoint. Just curious if it was and if you still have a lot of movement left in the balljoint.

Originally posted by Low Rag 67:
Thats the reason I bought the tubular upper arm so that it corrects the camber. Thats what was explained to me when I bought them. I will let you know when the car hits the ground. Aren't the spindles a stock replacement? If so, they wouldn't change the camber curve. A tubular arm would retain the same pivot points and would still loose camber under compression. I guess a different arm could tilt the spindle back more so it leaned into the corner.

Also, the $600 didn't include the a-arms did it?

Peter

tubular arms do nothing for correcting camber curve that is determined by the spindle"height". The arms merely help to correct the balljoint angle and some have additional caster built into the arm. There is no reason you can't run stock arms with "tall" spindles, this conversion isn't new but the arms are, relativley speaking that is. Road course guys were doing this back in the 70's--way before GW and Hotchkis were even companies. The arms are nice and "pretty" but worth 300-500/pair--I'll keep my $$$ and put somewhere it'll actually do some good. I intend to dedicate a full page to my conversion discussing all the parts used and costs--My front end will consist of 13" front brakes with 2 piston calipers, tall spindles , rod-end tie rods, tube arms, and teflon bushings-total cost estimate is 700.00. Notice I am using tube arms but not the name brand stuff, after I work out the details I'll let you all know how I get them for 90.00/pair.

Gokou--after I get my bumpsteer down to 0 I'll let you know how to fix it. I don't giving out "ideas" only actual, tested facts. No offense taken, I don't think anybody designs a car "right" I have to work on the damn things all day---Just once I'd like to meet a GM or Chrysler design engineer, I've lost enough blood already, it's one of their turn. I know they design this stuff for the soccer moms, I know how to drive and would like the car built that way though. No ABS, low roll center, low cg, neutral weight transfer, enough brake and tire to pull -3.0g decel, 6 sp and 450 HP---is that too much to ask. oh and I'd like it around 10-15K please. :D :D

On the Pro-Motorsports Engineering spindle extendors.

Wouldn't these be a better alternative to the Tall Spindle mod? Ss the steering arm would remain in the same location as stock vs. the wrong location on the tall spindle.

Anyone know exactly how much taller the Tall Spindle is compared to stock?

How much does the spindle extendor increase spindle height?

I just read that the extenders ad 1 15/16" to the spindle.

Regarding the spindle extenders, one drawback is that the max wheel offset you can have is 4.5. I have the American Racing wheels with 4 offset. Other than that, the spindle extenders seem great.

My car is lowered about 1.5 all the way around. For me, it is the perfect lowering without start scraping on things.

I have not been able to drive my car a lot because it was getting painted for about 4 weeks. Now, it is in the upholstery shop (new top & interior) for an estimated 4 more weeks. After that, I will add A/C (Classic Auto Air), March Performance serpentine system, and the Covan instrument panel. Then, I plan to enjoy it...

Theo.
'68 Chevelle Convertible.

I didn't think of that. They're probably no good for me as I'll need to run close to 6" of backspacing.

Theo, what size wheel do you have? Not sure I understand why the extenders limit backspacing. I know they raise the upper control arm mount, but so does the tall spindle, and guys are running 5.75" backspacing with those.

On the front, I have 17x8 American Racing wheels (4" backspace) with 235 tires and I have about 1" clearance between the wheel and the spindle extender. (Note: I do not have the car here to measure...) I think that 4.5" backspace is a safe limit. Basically, the extenders stick out a little.

Frankly, I like the product. I plan to add the "Bump Steer Eliminators" tie rod ends when I get my car back from the upholstery shop. Also, you can get the C4 or C5 Corvette disc brakes for the stock spindles. I currently have the 13" C4 brakes on mine and I love them.

Theo.

Thanks. Anyway you could get a pic of the clearance issue, whenever you get a chance.

If you want a excellent upper control arm that is full adjustable and fits the stock spindle check out the pole position control arms,plus they are a lot cheaper than the othe companies arms.

Theo, Beadblaster,
Any chance of getting web site links for the brake conversion you're talking about, the tie rod ends or the tube arms???

There's a lot of good info in your posts. Some of us are in learning mode on these things.

/h

Herb, these guys sell those brake kits.

http://www.speedtech-performance.com/Brakes/C5%20brakes.php

Here is the spindle extender site:

Spindle Extender (https://www.pro-motorsports.com/store/product.asp?id=66)

Theo.

The web site for the pole position a arms is polepositionrp.com. I see noe they have a spindle extender. Actually theirs lowers the ball joint with spacers. Price 29.95

Lowering the ball joint is not the same as using the Pro Motorsports spindle extender. Lowering the ball joint with their spacers does nothing to help the geometry.

Peter