Don't you hate doctors who overbook? I'm sitting here at 5:30 for a 4:15 appointment. Follow up from my dads surgery. Has to be done but I hate taking an hour out of work to come sit for an hour past me scheduled time.

Not a great thing to have to wait, but Jeff at least you can surf the net while waiting? Sure beats the old days of having to read Family Circle, Highlights, or Field & Stream magazines that are 9 months old.

Just tell him you expect him to deduct whatever your hourly wage is off the bill. It's only fair.

I've raised serious heck at Dr's: especially the ones that say they will bill you if you miss an appointment!

Dr. just couldn't understand me being upset; told her to knock $50 off my bill due to waiting for an hour, as my time is worth money too, she got all bent out of shape. Ended up she did eat my co-pay. I soon switched practices after that, and the one I'm with now KNOWS that I'd better be seen within 20 minutes of my appointment time or I'm billing them!

Secretary in the old office told me "It's a Dr's office-you should expect to wait!". I responded with "Not in any professionally run one I shouldn't!".

Jeff, time for you to raise cain and threaten them with a bill!

I'm sure that most doc's don't have a clue what a patient is there for till they walk into the little room. I think the doc's often spend a little more time on each case, than expected. I'm sure it's difficult to time every visit. So by the end of the day, they are behind. Certainly understandable to me. I would hope that when I get in there, they aren't cutting corners, worrying about being behind for the day. I try to get appointments early in the day, so they aren't behind as much.

i have found over the past couple years, to not sweat it. i was in line the other day when an elderly lady paid her $30 grocery bill with change, people were flipping out. i just held my line, the manager tried to apoligize, i told him i was in no big hurry. i now set aside extra time for anything i do. it's not worth the high blood pressure and all the anxiety. i don't have a dr.'s overhead and insurance.

i once was at a dr.'s office, and they were running behind, and most were talking pretty tersley in the waiting room, as they were getting me to my cubicle, i walked past a lady that was having seizures, i mean complete and total seizure, the dr. was trying everything to keep her safe. a lot of times a dr. will be called to the hospital for an emergency and that will put them behind, and sometimes it's just overbooking, because there are a lot of people who don't show up, or show up late, which puts everybody behind. my boss is notorious for showing late at his appointments. we have become accustomed for blaming everybody else for our inconvience. i've learned from the job i have, that humans err, everyday, and to get upset, just affects us.

i'm not saying your wrong. you have a right to quick service. i'm just saying, if i were having a seizure or other emergency, i'd hope the dr. took care of me, and not rush off to somebody who isn't in as bad a shape.

the day the lady was having a seizure, another lady kept screaming from her cubicle that she was upset at having to wait, and making a lot of noise, disturbing everybody else. i agree with finding a dr. who takes good care of you, after all if you have a bad meal, you don't go back to the same restaurant, you find something better.

all i'm saying is, look how many people in life put you behind, then imagine being a dr. and having to put up with those same people. hang in there, and i hope we all never really need a dr. but it's a fact of life, we will at some point....

Jeff,

Take advantage of the opportunity, spend the time talking to your dad. He won’t be there for ever. Life is just to short to lose sleep over the small stuff.

I start getting irate after 15-20 minutes. The purpose of making an appointment is to keep the appointment. Overbooking isn't the patient's fault. Charge them back for the time. I don't have a real high opinion of doctors to begin with...the wait time when you have to go see one just elevates it even more.

I kind of expect waiting with this Dr. He's one of the top neurosurgeons in the state and he did my surgery when I popped a disc in my neck. He did two surgeries on my dad so I don't really want to switch. He claimed he was called into an emergency surgery but that doesn't explain all the other times.

At least now he has a TV and a coffee maker and as long as I have my phone I have access to TC so I'm all good with waiting. :D

And talking to my dad while probably worth while, is easier said than done. He's a man of few words.

I have been going to see the plastic surgeon who did part of my hernia surgery. Most times we get in early of all things! So far the worst wait was 10 minutes and that was only once. One time we were home (40 mile drive) before my appointment was supposed to start!

People just need to learn to chill out and take things as they come. We cannot control every aspect of our lives.
I'm sure you would be bitching your head off if he rushed through your appointment so some other guy wouldn't be complaining because the doctor was running behind, now wouldn't you!:yes:

I know I'm always going to have to wait and just don't let it get under my skin.
It's part of life like so many other things we don't care much for.

It's easy to say how a business should be run when we have no idea.

Maybe its just me,but I wouldn't want to have my doctor upset with me.:noway:

Jeff, if possible try booking the appointment in the morning. Any stuff I have with our family doctor, I try to book appointments for just after rush hour in the morning. By the end of a long day, there is a handful of reasons why your doctor is running late. Maybe first thing in the morning there hasn't been all those reasons.

Our family doctor is also a pediatrician, so she could have easily spent the night at the hospital helping deliver a newborn. Just remember, your doctor is also running a small business, employees, overhead, and such. They are trying to do their best with everyone.

Daren

Dude I walk out and reschedule at family physicians........I had a 103 fever one time and sat 3 hours before called back and sat another 40 min on the paper...now I will say this, my kidney, and lung doctor might leave me hanging for some time..but worth the wait, I know running different tests on me (as anyone else can suck up some time...but for a family Doc too leave me for over 30 minutes these days...nope..I walk out..AND I get my co-pay back!!!:angry: Just like McD's telling me to pull foward to wait..Nope..will take my money back, or sit right here..:D

Jeff, if possible try booking the appointment in the morning. Any stuff I have with our family doctor, I try to book appointments for just after rush hour in the morning. By the end of a long day, there is a handful of reasons why your doctor is running late. Maybe first thing in the morning there hasn't been all those reasons.

Our family doctor is also a pediatrician, so she could have easily spent the night at the hospital helping deliver a newborn. Just remember, your doctor is also running a small business, employees, overhead, and such. They are trying to do their best with everyone.

Daren

Yeah, I tried that theory with this doctor once. Still waited. And a lost a whole day out of work rather than just an hour.

Plus, my dad doesn't get up before the crack of 11 or so. :D

A doctors job is no cake walk...believe me...we are always concerned about the wait time of our patients. Each patient presents with a fairly complex and unique problem.

We have to write/dictate each history and physical, fill out billing forms, perform a detailed physical examination for each...Follow up on lab results, imaging studies, social issues, write work excuses, prescriptions, answer phone calls from one pharmacy or another, answer patient and family questions, communicate with physicians from other hospitals/offices, deal with lab screw up, slow nurses, slow secretaries, missing reports, broken fax machines, printers, spend time with the very sick and anxious patient, answer pages, deal with sales reps, sign our signatures 100x per day, adjust medications and keep calm and cool while all this is going on in the background...
We do all this with the patient's best interest in mind...

Occasionally despite providing the best medical management possible, patients deteriorate and die...Dealing with a deceased patient is mentally and emotionally taxing...You would be a fool to believe that dying or dead patients are not major stressors in a doctors life...And to top it all off, we occasionally have to deal with the ambulance chaser lawyer's and frivolous lawsuits, depositions etc...

Believe me we would like to spread appointments out and see fewer patients per day, but patients are on a time line, they need to be seen at fixed intervals...they need timely medications, re-evaluations, timely lab follow ups, they need sutures and casts removed in a timely manner, we need to determine if infections require additional antibiotic coverage etc, etc

We work 10-12 hour days easily...Oh yes, and we also prefer to get home at a reasonable time and spend time with our loved ones...It is common to have late days at work, get home by 8pm just to wake up at 5am to do it all over again.

So have some compassion for your doctor as he/she has for you...He/she tries his/her best to keep you alive and well

well said 66 L78 ragtop. I'm with ya:thumbsup: most flks not in health care have no idea.

and just think if the guy at them helm now gets his way with his health plan you think waiting an hour will be bad-try waiting months to see any MD. thats what is next!

well said 66 L78 ragtop. I'm with ya:thumbsup: most flks not in health care have no idea.

and just think if the guy at them helm now gets his way with his health plan you think waiting an hour will be bad-try waiting months to see any MD. thats what is next!

Oh yea, the best is yet to come!

Don't you hate doctors who overbook? I'm sitting here at 5:30 for a 4:15 appointment. Follow up from my dads surgery. Has to be done but I hate taking an hour out of work to come sit for an hour past me scheduled time.


Try sitting in a VA hospital waiting for the Doctor to see you. :eek:

Try sitting in a VA hospital waiting for the Doctor to see you. :eek:

The VA has doctors????:confused:;)

Try sitting in a VA hospital waiting for the Doctor to see you. :eek:

Been there, done that...long wait :)

I understand they're going in blind with every patient; my problem is with a practice that overbooks. Any competently run practice will know how ling the average appt. runs, and schedules accordingly. The ones who try to cram more in, then back up the patients are the ones I get angry with.

I usually schedule my appointments for either 1st available, so I don't have to take a day off work, or last of the day, where I figure I will have to sit a bit, but won't have to lose work time, so not as big a deal.

They just need (to be made) to understand that their CUSTOMERS have valuable time too.

So have some compassion for your doctor as he/she has for you...He/she tries his/her best to keep you alive and well I hear you but not all Drs are the same. I know that stuff happens, emergencies, a patient takes more time then usual. Lot of things can put a Dr behind schedule but some Dr are never on schedule. Don't even think about being seen on time because it won't happen. They overbook to make certain they're making money every minute and when you do see them it may 5 minutes top and they're out and on to the next patient.

I see you're not like some, you do the best you can to care for your patients. I think most Drs are like you and do care. I also know that some Drs treat it as a business and not much more.

+1 ... my wife is a doc.

* Everything Ragtop said is true....

* If your a Calif doc or any doc who has to work in a managed care/insurance state, then doc probably gets paid a fixed amount per patient, regardless of how long they spend with each patient. It is piecemeal paid work. You would be a "little" alarmed at what a "piecemeal" is paid for the past 10 years. Kind of like mechanics at shops/dealers...piecemeal pay work, right guys?

* If you are a primary care physician in Calif. or any other managed care state, then you better be seeing at least 25 patients/day or you are not breaking even. Do the math and you will realize that most docs really can only afford to see you for 10 to 15 minutes max.

* If you are a doc on call with a pager in a partnership with doctors, do not expect your doc to sleep that night. Pager going off every 3 minutes. (I used to sleep in another room when my wife was on call). If a partnership of 5 primary care docs is doing financially ok, then each doc probably has about 3K to 5K of patients. Say average 4K. 4K multiplied by 5 docs = 20K patients. The doc on-call is HAMMERED. No such thing as overtime pay. Doc will be on call every 5 to 7 days. If you saw what my wife looked like, she looked like she had been working in a coal mine at below min wages (before starting her own solo practice)

* If you have one emergency / urgent unexpected patient arrival / hospital round that took longer than expected, then all the patients in the patient waiting room get backed up while the doc is helping that patient in NEED. If it were you, your wife, son, or daughter, in NEED then you would want the doc spending a little more time to help that person in need...even if it comes at a little expense of other patients having to wait.

* Most docs want to spend more time with patients. However, if you are a Calif doc or doc working in a managed care area, many practices have to have nurses practitioners/physician assistants seeing you as opposed to docs. That helps make the numbers work BUT patients are not happy seeing the doc. BTW, you will see a higher propensity of this nurse practitioners/physician assistants doing most of the work where practices have a heavy HMO relative to PPO patient base.

* Think they make money? I did consulting for a major hospital in the Silicon Valley (top 3 research/teaching hospital in U.S.) and consulting for three doc friends (related to my wife). In general Silicon Valley primary care....forget about it. Example pediatrician -
5 or 6 shots for newborn (hep a, b etc.). Cost to physician = $70 to $100 / shot. That does not include labor and materials. Reimbursement from insurance company = $10 to $25. That is only 1 example. I won't even get into the yield percentages that a doc earns for every insurance dollar that they get paid; it would be too painful. I have done the analytics based on tens of thousands of transactions. Do the math and you will see red....bad. Ultimately I told wife to show patients the pharmacy cost bill. If patient wants to go on the cheap, then tell them to pay for shot at county hospital and wait 4 to 6 hours. Or patients can get shot in the office and pay cost plus 5%....or they can see another doc. Give the patient the choice.

* My wife started a solo practice in the Silicon Valley after working in several partnerships and after doing the math. Being solo she could spend more time with patients (up to 20 minutes) but only accepted cash or PPO. No HMO. BTW, if you have an HMO plan...then expect to wait in that practice. Cash/PPO only shops, while more expensive (and I realize that not everyone can afford it and many employers don't even offer PPO anymore) in general (and there are exceptions) do provide a little better patient waiting time experience (they can financially make the numbers work and don't have to cram the waiting room to hit break even for the day).

* If a doc does not charge a co-pay, then the insurance company has the right to drop the doc. Period. It is in most doc/physician contracts.

* If a patient is/was medically non compliant, we applied the 3 strikes law and asked the patient to see another doc after the 3 strike. The medically noncompliant patient was too risky for us to keep. Medically non compliant patients ALSO have a high propensity of suing or having even more complications. Ask me how I know....


So when you are complaining, the docs have a lot to be complaining about too...but THEY all try to provide the best care given the overall situation. You may not like the situation, but it is what it is.

Sorry I had to sound off. There, I feel better. ;)





A doctors job is no cake walk...believe me...we are always concerned about the wait time of our patients. Each patient presents with a fairly complex and unique problem.

We have to write/dictate each history and physical, fill out billing forms, perform a detailed physical examination for each...Follow up on lab results, imaging studies, social issues, write work excuses, prescriptions, answer phone calls from one pharmacy or another, answer patient and family questions, communicate with physicians from other hospitals/offices, deal with lab screw up, slow nurses, slow secretaries, missing reports, broken fax machines, printers, spend time with the very sick and anxious patient, answer pages, deal with sales reps, sign our signatures 100x per day, adjust medications and keep calm and cool while all this is going on in the background...
We do all this with the patient's best interest in mind...

Occasionally despite providing the best medical management possible, patients deteriorate and die...Dealing with a deceased patient is mentally and emotionally taxing...You would be a fool to believe that dying or dead patients are not major stressors in a doctors life...And to top it all off, we occasionally have to deal with the ambulance chaser lawyer's and frivolous lawsuits, depositions etc...

Believe me we would like to spread appointments out and see fewer patients per day, but patients are on a time line, they need to be seen at fixed intervals...they need timely medications, re-evaluations, timely lab follow ups, they need sutures and casts removed in a timely manner, we need to determine if infections require additional antibiotic coverage etc, etc

We work 10-12 hour days easily...Oh yes, and we also prefer to get home at a reasonable time and spend time with our loved ones...It is common to have late days at work, get home by 8pm just to wake up at 5am to do it all over again.

So have some compassion for your doctor as he/she has for you...He/she tries his/her best to keep you alive and well

I used to have a doctor who would be backing out the door of the exam room while he was talking to me. He was always overbooked and rushed through each patient. He wasn't my doctor very long. The doctor I have now sits and explains everything to me and answers all my questions. Since I schedule all my appointments for the morning, I don't usually wait too long. I also don't get upset from waiting, no point. I either change providers, ask the secretary what day's are best to avoid delays, or sit and take it. Don't give someone else the power to make you upset, stress is bad for you.

I have been going to see the plastic surgeon who did part of my hernia surgery. Most times we get in early of all things! So far the worst wait was 10 minutes and that was only once. One time we were home (40 mile drive) before my appointment was supposed to start!

I have to ask this, I just had double Hernia surgery and had no Plastic Surgeon. I had seven little holes one of which was inside my belly button. Was the Plastic Surgeon there to make sure it did not get into your bikini line :D

nope, the plastic surgeon was there to put in the biological mesh they used to fix the 2 hernias. All of this taking place at the same time as a colectomy.

The VA has doctors???? :confused:;)


Well, that's what they refer to themselves at least. :sad:

Why do you think they call us PATIENTS!
I do not care HOW long I wait to see my doctors.
They ARE helping me live a better life (and sometimes just keeping me alive)
If a doctor has to overbook to make a living, then so be it.
If you don't like it, find another doctor. Or go to an ER
Sometimes doctors overbook because someone like ME called with a condition that needed attention and the doctor, instead of telling me to wait and all their appointments are booked, tells me to come on in to sees me that day!
I appreciate my doctors when they take the time to listen to my needs and I also realize that they do the same to other patients.
The quality of my healthcare is more valuable than losing an hour or two waiting.
Your life may depend on it, why rush it?

It's like packing a 1911A1 45, you don't have ta worry about the unexpected!!

He, He!!

pdq67

My Doctors office is booking my appointments first thing in the morning when they open. My Doctory and I came to this understanding a while back. My time is worth as much as his. keep me from working keeps me from paying his bill. Also 30 min to his office 30 min back to work I missed 1 hour driving plus time waiting. When I leave home is 10 min there then the 30 min to work so thats 20 min I am off the highway not get my blood pressure raised no no driving........ anyway it's better for me/and him to see me early instead of after my day and his has started!!!! only took two times for me and him to come to an understanding now everthigs great for all involved

Everybody's always in a big hurry

I'm late, I'm late, for a very important date :D

I guess the military made me immune to getting upset about waiting, at least for a doctor.
I have learned that the words "chest pain" will keep you from waiting in the ER. (I learned this accidentally.)
Waiting is part of life. Granted, too much waiting will tick me off but I guess our own definition of "too much" varies from person to person. I figure that if I can wait 3 hours to make a 5 minute phone call, weeks for a shower, 3 months for a beer or 12 months to see my family, what's a few minutes waiting to see the doctor?

I guess the military made me immune to getting upset about waiting, at least for a doctor.
I have learned that the words "chest pain" will keep you from waiting in the ER. (I learned this accidentally.)
Waiting is part of life. Granted, too much waiting will tick me off but I guess our own definition of "too much" varies from person to person. I figure that if I can wait 3 hours to make a 5 minute phone call, weeks for a shower, 3 months for a beer or 12 months to see my family, what's a few minutes waiting to see the doctor?

As an ER physician, I agree that the words "chest pain" will place you immediately in a room. Saying the words suicidal/homicidal ideation will win you a psychiatric evaluation and admission...

Some frequent flyers, homeless and the like, know the key phrases and use them to manipulate the system...:sad:

+1 ... my wife is a doc.

* Everything Ragtop said is true....

* If your a Calif doc or any doc who has to work in a managed care/insurance state, then doc probably gets paid a fixed amount per patient, regardless of how long they spend with each patient. It is piecemeal paid work. You would be a "little" alarmed at what a "piecemeal" is paid for the past 10 years. Kind of like mechanics at shops/dealers...piecemeal pay work, right guys?

* If you are a primary care physician in Calif. or any other managed care state, then you better be seeing at least 25 patients/day or you are not breaking even. Do the math and you will realize that most docs really can only afford to see you for 10 to 15 minutes max.

* If you are a doc on call with a pager in a partnership with doctors, do not expect your doc to sleep that night. Pager going off every 3 minutes. (I used to sleep in another room when my wife was on call). If a partnership of 5 primary care docs is doing financially ok, then each doc probably has about 3K to 5K of patients. Say average 4K. 4K multiplied by 5 docs = 20K patients. The doc on-call is HAMMERED. No such thing as overtime pay. Doc will be on call every 5 to 7 days. If you saw what my wife looked like, she looked like she had been working in a coal mine at below min wages (before starting her own solo practice)

* If you have one emergency / urgent unexpected patient arrival / hospital round that took longer than expected, then all the patients in the patient waiting room get backed up while the doc is helping that patient in NEED. If it were you, your wife, son, or daughter, in NEED then you would want the doc spending a little more time to help that person in need...even if it comes at a little expense of other patients having to wait.

* Most docs want to spend more time with patients. However, if you are a Calif doc or doc working in a managed care area, many practices have to have nurses practitioners/physician assistants seeing you as opposed to docs. That helps make the numbers work BUT patients are not happy seeing the doc. BTW, you will see a higher propensity of this nurse practitioners/physician assistants doing most of the work where practices have a heavy HMO relative to PPO patient base.

* Think they make money? I did consulting for a major hospital in the Silicon Valley (top 3 research/teaching hospital in U.S.) and consulting for three doc friends (related to my wife). In general Silicon Valley primary care....forget about it. Example pediatrician -
5 or 6 shots for newborn (hep a, b etc.). Cost to physician = $70 to $100 / shot. That does not include labor and materials. Reimbursement from insurance company = $10 to $25. That is only 1 example. I won't even get into the yield percentages that a doc earns for every insurance dollar that they get paid; it would be too painful. I have done the analytics based on tens of thousands of transactions. Do the math and you will see red....bad. Ultimately I told wife to show patients the pharmacy cost bill. If patient wants to go on the cheap, then tell them to pay for shot at county hospital and wait 4 to 6 hours. Or patients can get shot in the office and pay cost plus 5%....or they can see another doc. Give the patient the choice.

* My wife started a solo practice in the Silicon Valley after working in several partnerships and after doing the math. Being solo she could spend more time with patients (up to 20 minutes) but only accepted cash or PPO. No HMO. BTW, if you have an HMO plan...then expect to wait in that practice. Cash/PPO only shops, while more expensive (and I realize that not everyone can afford it and many employers don't even offer PPO anymore) in general (and there are exceptions) do provide a little better patient waiting time experience (they can financially make the numbers work and don't have to cram the waiting room to hit break even for the day).

* If a doc does not charge a co-pay, then the insurance company has the right to drop the doc. Period. It is in most doc/physician contracts.

* If a patient is/was medically non compliant, we applied the 3 strikes law and asked the patient to see another doc after the 3 strike. The medically noncompliant patient was too risky for us to keep. Medically non compliant patients ALSO have a high propensity of suing or having even more complications. Ask me how I know....


So when you are complaining, the docs have a lot to be complaining about too...but THEY all try to provide the best care given the overall situation. You may not like the situation, but it is what it is.

Sorry I had to sound off. There, I feel better. ;)

Absolutely correct...Reimbursement or shall I say decreasing reimbursement is a major issue...

Both my wife and I are doctors and one would think that we are "rolling in the dough"...NOT, comfortable yes, but far from "rolling in the dough":noway: