I have a 69 chevelle that I was told was a factory 427. The engine stamp however does not match the vin......the stamp was never given a vin match. I was told somewhere along my searches that the engine stamp and vin would always match up on COPOs. Is this true? If not, I'm wondering how I track down the dealership in hopes that they have a copy of the build sheets or receipt of sale. The tranny and rear end are not the original so those stamp options are gone. Please help! Thanks! -Victoria

Originally posted by Victoria:
I have a 69 chevelle that I was told was a factory 427. The engine stamp however does not match the vin......the stamp was never given a vin match. I was told somewhere along my searches that the engine stamp and vin would always match up on COPOs. Is this true? If not, I'm wondering how I track down the dealership in hopes that they have a copy of the build sheets or receipt of sale. The tranny and rear end are not the original so those stamp options are gone. Please help! Thanks! -Victoria Yes they will match. The engine was a factory installation.

One other note Victoria, 1969 COPO 427 Cars were not SS's. They were based on the Malibu with some SS trim like hood louvers, chromed exhaust, wheelwell moldings, etc., but no SS badging.

VIN's should match if it is in fact a COPO. The stamped code on the front of the block should be TxxxxMN where the X's are the two digit month and day it was assembled. The block will be casting number 3963512, heads 3919840, and intake 3933163. You should be able to go to COPO.com (http://www.copo.com/) and try to match up your VIN with their listing.

David - can you tell me your source for that "MN" engine suffix code? I'm wondering if my sources are incorrect, they indicate COPO engine codes of MQ for 4 speed and MP for automatic :confused:

Thanks pal.

The engine may be a dealer installed 427. Could it possibly be a Yenko, Harrell, Motion or one of the other high performance dealer built cars? You may want to go to http://www.yenko.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?Cat= and check with the guys there. If it is an original 427 car, they will let you know.
James

Don, I posted before engaging my brain! MN/MQ are Camaro codes, not Chevelle. Sorry for the misleading post graemlins/clonk.gif

Originally posted by David_Bates:
Don, I posted before engaging my brain! graemlins/clonk.gif I hear ya Dave, join the crowd ;)

Oops...

I have a 69 chevelle that I was told was a factory 427Maybe the "engine" is a factory 427 engine (and not a 454 block/396 crank) but from a different car (Corvette/Fullsize/etc)... Or maybe the car was a 427 COPO car but its missing the original engine, and someone "cloned" into an SS...

The tranny and rear end are not the original so those stamp options are gone.IMO, I would doubt a car would have the original block but not either the original rearend or tranny... Could be, but I'd be very skeptical... These parts did break sometimes, but just seems pretty unrealistic that both would be gone, yet the original block would still be there...

What is the assembly plant and build date? Post your trim tag and vin for more info

You guys are great!! Thanks for all the info and leads. The Cowl reads:

VIN#: 136679K410809

ST 69 13667 KAN 259222 BDY
TR 790 72A PNT
03A 02951 L

Engine production was late 1968, so thus far it matches up to look like a possible COPO. However, all the original COPOs I've seen (from Yenko, Harrell, etc.) have that matching vin stamp. I'm wondering if this is either a California dealer install or if this engine was a "find" after the first restoration. If it was a "find" where would one even possibly find a 427 without a previous vin match stamp?

Definitely not a "Factory" 427 COPO as the style of 13667 is a Malibu Convertible V8. All COPO's were 13637 Hardtops.

Could very well be a dealer swap. The build date of "03A" is the first week of March, 1969 and could very well have had a late 1968 engine dropped into it.

VIN#: 136679K410809 It is a convertible built in Kansas. I've never heard of a COPO 427 convertible and most of the COPOs were built in Baltimore. But I'm not very knowledgeable about COPOs, so we'll probably hear from some people who are. Edit: Don beat me to it ;)

If the engine is original to the car, I would expect the partial VIN stamp on the engine to match the VIN on the car. If the engine is not original to the car then the partial VIN stamp may not match, and if it does then it is a likely restamp.

You may have a 427 engine that was originally built as a 427 by GM, but my bet is it wasn't originally installed in your 69 convertible.

They used to build a lot of COPOs in K.C. My best friend was on the line then, has SOME stories. He drives a '69 427 Elky. One of One. But, even though the base car is One of One, it was originally a SB 'mule' used at the Proving Grounds. Had lots of badging 'delete', wierd interior, etc. Pretty slick now with the 427 and proper COPO 'items'.

So, Is it safe to say that since there is no partial vin match on the engine stamp (no evidence of ANY other numbers EVER being stamped)that this was probably a dealer install? I was told somewhere along the line that dealers would have engines on hand for swaps, but I was also told that if they did this, they would have a stamper to mark the engine with the corresponding car vin.

Two other questions:

1)How do I find what dealer sold this particular car?

2) If this wasn't a dealer install, and it's not factory...where would someone find a 427 WITHOUT a previous vin # on the engine stamp?

Again, thanks for the help!
-Victoria

According to COPO (http://www.copo.com) , there was only one of the estimated 224 non-Yenko 1969 COPO Chevelle's that wasn't built in Baltimore and that one was built in Los Angeles (136379L364805).

Dave

A big block engine intended for installation by one of the assembly plants will have an assembly date/source code that starts with T. An engine intended for service replacement by a dealer will have a stamped code that starts with CE. I'm thinking that this CE marking system started at the beginning of the 1968 model year, so that any 1969 replacement engines should be so marked. If a block has neither of these then it probably has been decked (head surfaces milled during a rebuild). Original machine marks on a block (called broach marks) are linear, straight from front to back. A block that has been decked by a machine shop will have circular machine marks.

The assembly plants stamped the partial VINs on the blocks (in 1969) in one of two places. The stamped number could be either on the block deck next to the stamped assembly date/source code or it could be stamped on the block down by the oil filter.

To find the original dealer that sold the car you need original documentation such as window sticker, build sheet, or a warranty book with the dealers name. Otherwise, your only chance is to do an ownership search and find the original owner or get a copy of the MSO (Manufacturer Statement of Origin). This is becoming difficult, if not impossible, to do. Your best bet is to find a build sheet in the car. Many 69 owners have found them. Do a search of this site to find out where to look.

Dealers might or might not have stamped partial VINs on engines that they replaced. Examples that I have seen did not look like the factory gang-stamped 1/8 inch characters.

I've become confused by your statements. You seemed to originally indicate that the stamped pad did not match your VIN, but now you indicate that there is no information on your block pad at all. What is the casting number of your engine block? What is the casting date? We need more information to help you. A picture of the engine deck pad would help, also.

With 72A paint code (Monaco orange with white ragtop), I bet your car was an SS that someone dropped a 427 in. Very cool color combo BTW :cool: