Guys
I bought a M20 that was advertised as rebuilt by a transmission shop to replace the M20 in my 67 that is making noise and occasionally popping out of 3rd on deceleration. I was turning the output shaft by hand and noticed the speedo gear not turning. I pulled the speedo gear housing bullet out, and to my amazement the worm gear on the output shaft does not line up, not even close. It is about 3/4" aft of where it needs to be.
WTF? Of course the guy I bought it from wont return my calls...
My question is- is it simply the wrong output shaft, and is it a relatively easy fix to take the one out of my tranny and put it in this one? That is assuming the rest of the tranny was rebuilt properly. Or should I just load the .357 and go get my money back!
Thanks in advance for any advice-you guys rock!
Kevin

Geez, why don't you talk to the guy who sold it to you before you start to polish up your blue steel?

The gear on the output shaft is a press fit, it can be moved to the correct location without a lot of fuss. Likely situation will be that the guy who rebuilt it made a single small mistake and would be happy to fix it.

Some 4-speeds had the steel drive gear on the main shaft pressed on, if it is not put back in the right position the cross shaft (Plastic gear) won't line up. It is not an easy fix. Some had a plastic gear with a clip to hold it in the proper place, if that is what you have maybe the clip is off, or you have the wrong tailshaft.

I apologize for my outburst, the reference to a firearm was meant to be "humor" arr arrr.
But aside from that, thanks for the input, I looked closer, there are definate marks on the shaft where the gear used to be (in the right spot) so with the tranny sitting on a bench, is it a difficult job to remove the output shaft, press the gear into the right spot, and put it back together? I mean can you just unbolt the tailshaft and pull it out, or will springs and tiny little parts fly all over the garage if I attempt that?
Thanks again Kevin

I apologize for my outburst, the reference to a firearm was meant to be "humor" arr arrr.
But aside from that, thanks for the input, I looked closer, there are definate marks on the shaft where the gear used to be (in the right spot) so with the tranny sitting on a bench, is it a difficult job to remove the output shaft, press the gear into the right spot, and put it back together? I mean can you just unbolt the tailshaft and pull it out, or will springs and tiny little parts fly all over the garage if I attempt that?
Thanks again Kevin

You can remove the tailshaft and move the "ring gear" on the output shaft. The big IF in all this is the amount of force required to move the ring AND the direction it needs to be moved in. Does it need to be PUSHED closer to the trans or PULLED further out toward the end of the output shaft. Obviously the process will be different depending on what has to be done.

I am compelled to add here that the real "correct" way to fix this is at least partial disassembly of the trans so that the output shaft can be fitted into a press but you MIGHT be able to skate by W/O going that far!

The tail shaft housing has several bolts (5 I think) that hold the whole trans together. If you remove the housing you better plan on putting some bolts back in with washers or whatever spacers are necessary to secure the case and the midplate. If you don't do that you risk things coming apart while you are fooling with the speedo drive gear.

If the drive gear needs pushing closer to the case a pipe might be used to slip over the output shaft and then tap on the pipe end to "urge" the gear forward toward the case. I don't recommend wailing away at the gear with the biggest hammer you can find.

If on the other hand the gear needs to be moved reward toward the end of the output shaft you gotta find a way to support the gear and then you are gonna have to tap on the shaft itself with some sort of dead blow hammer. I suggest something with a rubber face or else put a board over the shaft end. DON'T go pounding on the output shaft end with a steel hammer. That has to be asking for trouble. Another way to do this is to find someone with a press...wheel bearing press that is. You might be able to rig the entire trans into the press in such a way that the speedo drive gear can be pressed backward toward the output shaft end.

We still have NOT addressed the amount of force it is gonna require to move the drive gear. This might be doable without a press and then again it might require a press. Hard to say. If the speedo drive gear moves with a gentle tap of a hammer then you a likely OK. Flailing away with a 10 pound hammer is gonna damage things inside the trans. DON'T get carried away if you try this "hammer tap" method.

Remember what I said earlier. If you a hell bent on doing this W/O pulling the trans apart you MUST secure the case / midplate as if the tail shaft were in place BEFORE you address the speedo drive gear position otherwise things are gonna get messy. I don't sense that you know how to take a Muncie apart so you better be sure you don't find yourself needing to put one back together.

Also when you are removing the tail shaft you will have to disengage the reverse lever and its internal mechanism. Get a shop manual...all Muncie transmissions are the same in this area. Read up on removal of the tail housing. There are 3 or 4 parts that could come flying out but with a little mechanical ability you should be able to reinstall them w/o too much trouble.

I like the "polish up the blue steel" option, I did think the "load up the 357" was quite funny

Are you sure you have the right tailhousing? Speedo cables come out two different sides depending on Make/model. One side requires the gear in one place, the other side requires it in a different place.

Popping out of gear....if you have a Hurst shifter, make sure the shift arm stop is adjusted correctly and allowing the shifter to fully engage 3rd gear. If it's right, then the cause is most likely a worn gear/synchro slider...not a cheap fix for that.

Well heres an intresting update. I got my hands on a manual and some instruction (alot from here! thanks) and took the "rebuilt" tranny partially apart for a closer look. I found many things wrong with it besides the speedo gear. The most alarming was there were no gaskets at all on the front bearing retainer, or either side of the rear bearing plate. Just silicone. The oil drain hole of course was plugged full of it. The rest of the gaskets and seals were the re-used old ones. It even still had some old dirty gear oil in it. The bushing in the tailshaft is also badly worn. As far as I can see, they just replaced the main bearings, put it back together and sold it as "rebuilt". I finally talked to the guy I bought it from (remember him, my .357 target) and commenced to describe what I just told you guys, he of course kept interrupting me with silly excuses, my favorite one was "thats not what rebuilt means" I had to laugh out loud when he muttered that one. That was after he explained to me that new gaskets and seals are just not available for these old transmissions. Keep in mind that this is a transmission shop. Not a garage or gas station, a buiseness that specializes in transmissions. I wont mention any names, but the initials are LEE MILES TRANSMISSION 18008 BOTHELL-EVRETT HWY BOTHELL, WA
So if you are in the Seattle area, avoid these clowns.

Kevin,
I fully understand your frustrations and can sympathize.
These trannys are getting old, but they certainly are very popular and very much in demand.
I've been rebuilding 4spds (MOSTLY Muncies) for 40+yrs and I've learned a lot (and STILL learning) about rebuilding them. The most important thing I've learned is to do it right the first time!!!
If you were close, I'd say just bring it to me and I'd inspect it and tell you what you have, as well as what you need.
Unfortunately, I don't know anyone to recommend in your area.
I understand the thought of taking it back to the people you got it from, but if they didn't, or couldn't, do it right to begin with, it's not likely they will do it right again.

I do not regard myself as a Muncie expert, but, based on everything I've seen and experienced through the past 40+yrs of building 4spds------------I guess I am somewhat of a Muncie expert. But there are other guys here, such as Wally Knight (Muncieman) who certainly can provide you with any info/assistance that you need.