Has anyone seen on a 1970 Chevelle cowl tag a number such as "1" in the extreme upper right hand corner? The tag in question is a Baltimore tag.

thanks

Hey Greg, Check out Dale's web page under 1970 and then under N-Z in the samples, He shows a Bal tag with a 5 in the upper right hand corner as you describe.

http://www.chevellestuff.com/

I have seen 1970-72 Baltimore tags with 5, 10, 16 in the upper RH corner.

Any ideas on what the numbers are? My green car has the number "1.."

I've seen numerous years and plant tags with either a raised, stamped number or what appears to be hand stamped numbers in different locations. To date, nobody seems to know the significance of the numbers or their location. Keep digging I suppose. smile.gif

Originally posted by greg2001:
Any ideas on what the numbers are? My green car has the number "1.." Maybe it indicates the first LS6 car built ?

I wasn't implying that, but...??? I was wondering if it had anything to do with shifts at the Fisher Plant intially, but since other numbers have been seen, that seems remote. It might have to do with production changes and maybe a way to track the car..I have only noticed it on Baltimore as an Atlanta built (12C) LS6 I own doesn't have it..The numbr is raised, embossed from the underside, like the rest of the cowl tag numbers, but it does appear to be handstamped as opposed to a "gang stamp" It look like it is definitly not the same font as the rest of the cowl tag numbers. I'll try to get a pic posted..

I asked this question many times too with no luck.My 3rd week april LS6 has 11 stamped there.It looks like a harder stamp that is slightly misaligned over the DY from the BDY.

Is the car a Baltimore car or an Atlanta car? I spoke with Kevin (Musclecarkid on Yenko.net) and he thought that the number in the extreme right might refer to the body series..ie..if the VIN is a 100xxx VIN and the body number is 100xxx then the number would be "1" as well..However my VIN is a 127xxx, the body series is 6xxxxx, and the number is a "1" so that rules that out to some degree..The data processing number is B D 0111 so I'm not sure if it refers to that or not...Any thoughts here???

Here's a 70 Baltimore tag with a raised stamped "5". The mystery continues...

http://www.chevellestuff.com/70velle/tags/tt_b04.jpg

Mine has a "4" stamped the same way, a little bit bolder than the rest of the stamping. It's actually just a little bit lower than the one pictured, and slightly overlaps the "BDY". It's obvious that this single digit stamp came after the other stamping. This is a 3rd week January (01C), Baltimore car.

Could it have something to do with the car's destination? Maybe a zone identification? Just a wild guess. My car was headed to a dealer in NC.

that is a good guess..what zone is NC in?

Originally posted by greg2001:
Is the car a Baltimore car or an Atlanta car? I spoke with Kevin (Musclecarkid on Yenko.net) and he thought that the number in the extreme right might refer to the body series..ie..if the VIN is a 100xxx VIN and the body number is 100xxx then the number would be "1" as well..However my VIN is a 127xxx, the body series is 6xxxxx, and the number is a "1" so that rules that out to some degree..The data processing number is B D 0111 so I'm not sure if it refers to that or not...Any thoughts here??? My car is a Baltimore car.I can't figure out any pattern to it but I seen a lot of Baltimore built A body cars(including GTOs) with these mysterious numbers

Dean,

What is are your data processing numbers? Also do you have a "B D," in front..Kevin also thought all Super Sport cars from Baltimore would have the "B D," as opposed to just a "B" We also thought maybe the "D" would signify a console car if there are some genuine "SS" cars with just the "B," in front of the data processing numbers. I'm at a loss, as I don't think it relates to the zone codes..."4" is the zone code for dealers in MN, not NC... It would be interesting to track down a worker from Fisher..Does anyone know the area the plant was in?

Here, you want some more to ponder?

My guess would be they are batch numbers? Or they could indicate customer ordered cars.

http://www.synthetic-oil.com/cars/B185509.jpg
http://www.synthetic-oil.com/cars/B754688.jpg
http://www.synthetic-oil.com/cars/BAL03430.jpg
http://www.synthetic-oil.com/cars/BAL1656.jpg
http://www.synthetic-oil.com/cars/BL4893.jpg

I wonder if what Kevin (musclecarkid) suggested about the "D" being a code for console application is correct..does anyone have any cars that are "SS" cars without consoles that DON'T have a "D" on the data processing line?? I am not sure about "bacth" numbers, although that might be one thought...

My LS-5 M-22 car has no console. Dale has my build sheet. I'll check the plate tomorrow. ALSo have a 1 in the corner...3rd week March Baltimore car.

ALbert

Someone just suggested to me that those numbers could be quality control tracking.

A neighbor down the street worked for GM in Flint during the 60's and 70's. He told me that my 1970 El Camino was one of the cars they would have built. He was on the final line, installed front sheet clip. Surprising that he knows absolutely nothing about whats on the cowl tags. Says he never even saw one in all the years he worked on the line, as I asked him one time. There was always the broadcast sheet taped to the front on the car. He retired in the late 1980's and moved here.

His idea was that it could be quality control. They may have marked selective cars at Fisher to track through final production but its just a guess on his part and I thought I would throw it out there for consideration as no one thought of that.

The person who would know would have to be working in the scheduling office at Fisher. This person would have set in motion the stamping of the trim tags. Chances are the workers outside of the office cared less or paid any attention to the trim tags as the main purpose was for documentation of how the body was built. The workers had paper instructions on what to do, the cowl tag was a permanent record of that.

I have a 69 convertible Baltimore car with a 3 in the upper right corner. I'm still looking into the cars history but I found the car in New York State where it had been since early 80's

I would suspect that the numbers are for quality control as well. They were certainly added at the Fisher Plant, before the factory received the body shells. It would make sense that since the factory would have wanted to track certain VIN's, they would have assigned a method to track them. I would suspect that since my car is a "pilot" car(initial production (the case with the actual VIN..)) or engineering car) that it would certainly have been tracked for production quality. Therefore the fact that it has the "1" on the cowl tag would lend credulence to the idea that it was the initial car in perhaps a "batch" of cars..ie..my car is "1", another VIN is "2", "3," etc.. that were checked for quality control. In speaking to Jim Mattison on the subject of "pilot cars," he stated they were tracked for both engineering and quality, so it makes sense.

Mines a 69 Bal. car with a very faint 6 stamped from front,raised portion would be on back. Mike

OK here are the numbers from my data plate:

St70 13637 B074577BDY
TR756 34 34 Pnt
03C B D 0779

Vin 136370B1665##

ALbert

Hey Albert my ragtop is a 3rd week March built car-in Baltimore-cool -check my ride out at www.canamchevelles.com (http://www.canamchevelles.com) mine is the Dec03 feature car-keep on cruisin-dave

Originally posted by alss:
OK here are the numbers from my data plate:

St70 13637 B074577BDY
TR756 34 34 Pnt
03C B D 0779

Vin 136370B1665##

ALbert Interesting. The Body Number (074577) shows up as the first 6 digits in block 24 (DP SEQ NO) at least for Baltimore cars. The '0779' also shows shows up in this block as the last 4 digits. Now if we could figure out what the other two digits are in that block... :cool:

Wish I had matching trim tags and build sheets for other plants. :mad:

On Atlanta cars, the body number is in block 8 (labeled BODY NUMBER) and the 6-2-4 digit sequence in block 24 appear on the bottom line of the trim tag in a 6-6 configuration.

Yep I too have a B D on my tag,DP number after that is 0317.Also in box 24 of my build sheet

Does anyone know of any column shift "SS" cars that were built at Baltimore...Or any bench seat 4spd "SS" cars? I would like to see if the "B D" is there as well..We also need to look at 1970 Malibu trim tags both ways...floor shift and column shift..If the "B D" is present on only floor shift cars then we have some answers..ie..only a "B" is present on column shift cars..The "D" would then imply to me a floor shift..whether auto or stick...if the "B D" is present only on "SS" cars..then that could be the answer.."B D" being a code for a "SS" car..

Originally posted by greg2001:
Does anyone know of any column shift "SS" cars that were built at Baltimore...Or any bench seat 4spd "SS" cars? I would like to see if the "B D" is there as well..We also need to look at 1970 Malibu trim tags both ways...floor shift and column shift..If the "B D" is present on only floor shift cars then we have some answers..ie..only a "B" is present on column shift cars..The "D" would then imply to me a floor shift..whether auto or stick...if the "B D" is present only on "SS" cars..then that could be the answer.."B D" being a code for a "SS" car.. Thought I had a matched pair of body plate and build sheet for Balt. Build sheet indicates L34/M20, bench seat (753), last 4 digits in block 24 are '0802', a Red coupe, dated 11-10. Looking through my tags, I found one with '0802' under the paint code and 11B as the date...looking good so far...but...(1) it's a convertible, Fathom Blue with a black top, and has a blue bench seat (764). Additionally, the body numbers are W A Y different: tag #754688 vs. build sheet #334993. The tag does have only the "B" letter on it though. That kind of shoots down the assumption that body numbers were sequential. Maybe because one is a convertible is why they are over 400,000 numbers apart in the same build month (?)

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/396guy/bal_bs.jpg http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/396guy/bal_ts.jpg

Apparently, the last 4 digits in block 24 on the build sheet are not unique in-and-of themselves. Still an interesting theory about the "B" and "D". Of the 4 Baltimore tags I have, only one (this one) has just the "B" code and happens to be a bench seat car; the other 3 have "B" and "D" codes and are bucket seat cars. It's not know if any of the Balt tags are SS cars or not.

Al's car may be one step in that direction. It's a LS5/M22 bucket seat car and the body plate does show "B" and "D".

Dale,

Are you saying that of the 4 cowl tags you have from Baltimore only 1 doesn't have the "D" inthe data processing line? Do these tags have buildsheets that go along with them? I am still thinking that either the "D" denotes a floor shift aplication..hence the need to cut the tunnel (which would have been done at fisher if I'm not mistaken), or possibly the "SS" option..whether Z15 or Z25. I would like to examine more genuine "SS" cars, and determine if there is any pattern. Also since it is possible to get a floor shift non "SS" car, maybe we can look at Malibu's as well.

Originally posted by greg2001:
Dale,

Are you saying that of the 4 cowl tags you have from Baltimore only 1 doesn't have the "D" in the data processing line? Do these tags have buildsheets that go along with them?Just talking tags only. What's odd is I happen to have a build sheet for a L34/M20/no console 13637 car that has the same '0802' whereas the tag is for a 13667 car. Something else striking is the build sheet (13637) car has a date of 11-10 where the tag car (13667) is 11B. Just a coincidence? In the other thread here, northernforce listed his tag and it also on has the "B" letter and it's a convertible as well. I wonder if there's a significance to the "D" being for 13637 cars?

The other 3 tags I have all have both "B" and "D" on them (and are 13637 cars) but no other documentation for those. I also have build sheets but no matching tag information.

With info from this thread, and your other one, plus what I have for tags for Balt cars so far - of 11 tags, 9 are 13637 and have "B" and "D" letters, 2 are 13667 and only have the "B" letter.

opps

Here is info I have on 1969-72 Baltimore cars.

I don't have many build sheet for BAL cars, this data came from people asking for help with their codes.


69-13637 TR 755 B L
69-13637 TR 657 B L
69-13637 TR 791 B L (owner says SS396)
69-13637 TR 795 B L
69-13680 TR 755 B F L
69-13637 TR 790 F L
69-13667 TR 756 L
69-13637 TR 785 B M
69-13667 TR 764 B
69-13667 TR 756 L
70-13637 TR 755 B
70-13637 TR 790 B
70-13637 TR 756 B D
70-13637 TR 756 B D
70-13637 TR 796 B D (owner says LS6)
70-13637 TR 791 B D
70-13637 TR 795 B
71-13637 TR 706 D
71-13637 TR 705 B
71-13637 TR 722 B
71-13637 TR 722 B
72-13637 TR 704 D
72-13637 TR 704 B D (SS454)
72-13637 TR 703 B
72-13637 TR 713 B

I wonder how many moer letters of the alphabet would show up if we were to see more trim plates?

So far I have seen B,D,F,L,M

I have info from some cars that are said to be SS cars and they had no letter codes.

Hoping these codes have something to do with the SS option is wishful thinking IMO, the SS was just an option and had no more priority that A/C for instance.

Baltimore was a GMAD plant, not a chevy only plant.

Mike,

Do you have a run down on the 1970 Chevelles you listed..So far as what transmissions they came with, seating arragements (bucket or bench) and whether they were "SS" cars? If so can you post? While the "B" code appears to stand for "Baltimore," based on what I've seen with this and other plants..The "D" code I think stands for possibly the "SS" option or whether the car is a floor shift or column shift...What is your explanation on the 4 digit number sequence that follows and how some cars that are close in build date can have the same code, while others don't? Any thoughts on what the code represents? Curious about your thoughts..

Greg

Originally posted by greg2001:

While the "B" code appears to stand for "Baltimore," based on what I've seen with this and other plants..The "D" code I think stands for possibly the "SS" option or whether the car is a floor shift or column shift.
Greg Northern force posted his SS tag and he has only a B on it.His car is a M20 original SS car so I guess that shoots down the D code as SS and or floor shift application.

Originally posted by greg2001:
Mike,

Do you have a run down on the 1970 Chevelle's you listed..So far as what transmissions they came with, seating arrangements (bucket or bench) and whether they were "SS" cars? If so can you post? While the "B" code appears to stand for "Baltimore," based on what I've seen with this and other plants..The "D" code I think stands for possibly the "SS" option or whether the car is a floor shift or column shift...What is your explanation on the 4 digit number sequence that follows and how some cars that are close in build date can have the same code, while others don't? Any thoughts on what the code represents? Curious about your thoughts..

Greg The numbers on the lower tag are part of the DP SEQ NO from Box 24 on the build sheet. What is on the trim tag is only part of the complete number, so its possible for some to have the last 4 digits same but the first 8 different. They used these to identify the body in the system. The DP SEQ NO is what GMAD plants used to correlate all of the production info for a car. Baltimore built other GM A body's, GTO for instance and they had to be a system in place to make sure GTO parts were not bolted onto the Chevelle's. Many forget that the Chevelle Malibu was only a small part of the plants production. Those letters could me absolutely nothing about the car itself.

Seems to me the 1970 trim tags with B D are all Bucket seat cars. Cars with B only are Bench seats.

Dean,

I'm aware his car doesn't have the "D" code and is a M20 car...However there are way more cars that seem to have both codes that are floor shift cars, both auto and manual..I'm not ready to "throw in the towel," based on 1 car..That is why we need to look at way more cars to get a good sample population.

I'm also aware that the plant built more than Chevrolet "A" bodies..I am curious though as to why Dave's car("Dave70SS" on the Yenko.net site) and my car are both Baltimore cars..his a L78, mine an LS6, both have the "1" located in the upper right corner (body jig number???) and both have "B D 0111," and are only 1 week apart in production. I would think that the "0111" is a batch number of some sort..possibly a way to track one of the last L78's and possibly the first LS6 at the same plant...Who knows...more research is needed..Anyone haev any conenctions at the plant itself that were in scheduling..All of mine were production (line workers).

Greg

My "B" only car is a factory 4 speed with console-buckets-thanks-keep on cruisin -Dave-also it is a ragtop!-Dave.

Greg,
You may wish to contact : Rich Recupero - Registry@Chevelles.com as he has a large registry for chevelles with trim tags and options info.I use to be able to see all the registry data on this site but I believe now it only is available to administrators on this site

On the subject of pilot cars, I though I would pass this on I just got today;

From the Corvette Plant “Performance Press”

This week, the GM Corvette Assembly Plant will start the second Manufacturing Validation Build (MVB) for the C6. The goal of this build is to test the assembly tooling and processes for the new car. The first car came off the end of assembly on Friday. A total of 20 units will be built during the next few weeks. Look for more information to come soon!

Hopefully someone will end up with one of these "pilot" cars..Unfortunatly we as Chevy enthusiast haven't done as much "homework" as the Mopar or Ford guys in regards to the "pilots" They represent a neat segment of the hobby that doesn't get talked about much..Has anyone seen any other cars that were "pilots?"

My Baltimore Cowl Tag:
ST 70 13637 B079082BDY
TR756 28 28 PNT
03D B 0415

M21 no console
A51 STRATO BK ST
ZL3
Have two Build Sheets if you would like more info from them.
Box 24 reads: 079082 47 0415

Originally posted by greg2001:
Hopefully someone will end up with one of these "pilot" cars..Unfortunatly we as Chevy enthusiast haven't done as much "homework" as the Mopar or Ford guys in regards to the "pilots" They represent a neat segment of the hobby that doesn't get talked about much..Has anyone seen any other cars that were "pilots?" I seen a image of a trim tag from (?may have been a Camaro) and it had PILOT stamped on it. I thought I saved the image but have not located on my HD yet.

A very interesting thread. In January 2003 I downloaded a bunch of clear images of an e-Bay Chevelle, a '71 SS454 that was #13 off the line at Leeds, a pilot car, built 8/70. It did not have that digit on the upper right. Funny thing is it didn't have hood pins either (all '71 & '72 Chevelle SS & Heavy Chevy models were supposed to have them). That car must have been the 1st SS454 that rolled off the line at Leeds for '71.

I am restoring a '70 L34/ M20 convertible- buckets, console with original build sheet.

ST 70 13667 B108061 BDY
TR 756 55 B PNT
03E B 0410

On build sheet, body number is in first position in box 24- 0410 is last 4 in box 24. Also, last 6 of the vin is stamped in top of box 8 instead of 9 and in the bottom of box 8 is- BB00096. Does this help any?