These has always been an argument as to weather a Beaumont is a Pontiac or not. I just went and had a look at a wrecked 69 to see if there was still a horn ring in it and low and behold as plain as the nose on my face ( And I got a honker!!) it says Beaumont on the glove box door, and right above it imprinted into the dash it says PONTIAC. I know it has also been mentioned that no where does the word Pontiac appear on a Beaumont but it does on this one. I did not have a camera with me but if anyone would like to see it I will gladly go back there later in the day and get a picture

Here is a couple of pictures I took today. I have a picture of the whole car as well but for some reason it will not upload. You can clearly see Beaumont on the glove box and Pontiac on the dash. I also took a picture of the cowl tag.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Pontiac%20Beaumont&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=Pontiac%20Beaumont&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

I don't get your point Mike. If you will look at the other thread, you will see that they are saying that there was never a Pontiac name planted onto a Beaumont. I found one that I feel proves that statement incorrect They are called Pontiacs all over the internet.

Thought you were asking if the Beaumont was a Pontiac.
There parts were listed in the Pontiac Parts Catalog that I had ,figured they were a Pontiac.

I have never seen a Beaumont with the word Pontiac on it. The one you show may have had the dash swapped at some time in it's life. Beaumonth used LeMans/GTO dashes. I'll post this on the Canadian Poncho site and see what their take on it is. There are several 69 Beaumont owners there.
James

Agreed, a Beaumont has never been a Pontiac. It was sold through Pontiac dealers but none of the cars or literature ever actually had the word "Pontiac" on it. That dash pad has likely been replaced or at least the emblem from a Lemans.

It is true that Beaumonts and Acadians are called Pontiacs everywhere you look but they have never actually been physically labeled as such.

Okay guys here is the take on this car from information that I can gather. This car was brought here new to Port Hardy in 1969. Port Hardy is a small town of less than 5000 people and I know 2 people that remember this car when it was new. The original owner passed it down to his son who thrashed it and sold it to his friend. This 3rd owner stored it at a very good friend of mines house, where it sat for years until it rusted to the point of no return. All indications are that this car was never wrecked to the point of needing a new dash installed. This is not an emblem Carl. It is embossed into the dash like you put a brand on the arse of a cow! LOL

Terry ,have you tried for a GM Restoration pack to see what it'll tell you?

http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/shopping/parts/vintage

In late 68 cars. Some Chevelles got Buick and even some Olds/Pontiac interiors. I believe due to a strike. Could it be posible that the same happened with some Bea's. If they ran out of the proper dash pads, Just grab a Pontiac pad and move on....

Terry ,have you tried for a GM Restoration pack to see what it'll tell you?

http://www.gm.ca/gm/english/shopping/parts/vintage

No I haven't Mike. That costs money and I am only posting this info and pictures for information purposes. I thought the Beaumont enthusiasts might like to see it. I can also get the tag information if anyone wants it. I took a picture of the trim tag but it did not turn out very well and it tokk me half a friken hour to figure out how to get the two pictures that I did get loaded!

The GM documents even call Beaumonts and Acadians a Pontiac but that is incorrect. Nowhere on or in the owners manual does it say Pontiac. Nowhere on or in the parts books for Beaumonts or Acadians does it say Pontiac. Nowhere on any of the factory advertising or sales literature is the name Pontiac ever mentioned.

People mistakenly think they are Pontiacs because they were sold at Pontiac dealers.

Some people get very uptight about whether or not Beaumonts and Acadians are Pontiacs. I really couldn't care if they are or not, we know they just are unique. I owned my Acadian for close to 20 years before I realized it was not actually a Pontiac!

The GM documents even call Beaumonts and Acadians a Pontiac but that is incorrect. Nowhere on or in the owners manual does it say Pontiac. Nowhere on or in the parts books for Beaumonts or Acadians does it say Pontiac. Nowhere on any of the factory advertising or sales literature is the name Pontiac ever mentioned.

People mistakenly think they are Pontiacs because they were sold at Pontiac dealers.

Some people get very uptight about whether or not Beaumonts and Acadians are Pontiacs. I really couldn't care if they are or not, we know they just are unique. I owned my Acadian for close to 20 years before I realized it was not actually a Pontiac!

So how did this one get Pontiac on the dash when we can trace it's history to where we are almost 100% sure it has never been replaced? I am real curious as to what they say if James posts it on the Poncho Site.

It's a case of 'fuzzy memory'... that dash is off a tempest or other car, who knows why they needed to replace it at sometime, 40 years has passed... just the like the 66ss 427 chevelle on another thread that is claimed to be original and other oddities that come up from time to time... I didnt think people were modifying these cars at such an early age, but you see pics of less than year old beaumonts with chevy cross flags on the fenders (thats a common one), there was one running around here with GTO emblems on it, others put pontiac rally IIs on them... people did funky stuff to these cars in the 70's and 80s...

i used to call my car a pontiac beaumont for almost 20 years, but since i've seen the research and documentation on the topic, my informed opinion has now changed to it being 'just' a beaumont... doesnt matter to me... but for all the arguments that say its a pontiac, there's no documention from the era that states it, and tonnes that say otherwise... and the practical sense that if gm wanted it to be a pontiac they would have said so...why would a company not use an existing brand to sell a new product?

ak

I guess it's not impossible that it had the wrong dash pad put on it when new (as evidenced by the Acadians labelled Chevette and the Chev pickups labeled GMC when I worked at the Pontiac dealership) but that is not very likely.

We can label our Beaumonts and Acadians as Pontiacs if we like but they still aren't Pontiacs even though they are commonly called such.

The GM documents even call Beaumonts and Acadians a Pontiac but that is incorrect. Nowhere on or in the owners manual does it say Pontiac. Nowhere on or in the parts books for Beaumonts or Acadians does it say Pontiac. Nowhere on any of the factory advertising or sales literature is the name Pontiac ever mentioned.
GM documents call them Pontiacs...thats enough for me...regardless if the other books fail to mention...

People mistakenly think they are Pontiacs because they were sold at Pontiac dealers.
More proof

Some people get very uptight about whether or not Beaumonts and Acadians are Pontiacs. I really couldn't care if they are or not, we know they just are unique. I owned my Acadian for close to 20 years before I realized it was not actually a Pontiac!

Instead of trying to prove it isnt a Pontiac why not prove what it is...

Alas, here is an ebay auction that does show a dashpad would fit...therefore the dashpad replacement is possible as stated above...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Pontiac-GTO-Lemans-Beaumont-Tempest-Dash-Pad-Cap-1_W0QQitemZ390030660758QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_C ar_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item390030660758&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A317%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

and then I found this...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/67-PONTIAC-SERVICE-MANUAL-Acadian-Beaumont-Parisienne_W0QQitemZ220324506047QQcmdZViewItemQQpt ZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item22032 4506047&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A317%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

and this...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/69-Beaumont-Acadian-Pontiac-Chassis-Shop-Manual-1969_W0QQitemZ270303612550QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotor s_Manuals_Literature?_trksid=p4506.m20.l1116

Beaumont=Pontiac.

I have searched 1969 GTO dash, Lemans dash, and Tempest dash and can not see the word Pontiac on any of the original or on the reprodution dashs. This could not have been added to the dash after is was installed in the car because as I said earlier, it is embossed right into the padded material. It would have had to ben done at the time the padded dash was made. The letters stand up in that indentation and are flush with the dash. I am almost 100 percent certain that this is the original dash to this car. So yes, I am still confused.

Here is another little head scratcher for you. I know that in 1962, or maybe even earlier, Canadian Pontiacs had Maple Leafs as part of the Canadian identification. But... the Maple Leaf was not on the Canadian flag until February of 1965.

Beaumont=Pontiac.

I should have explained a bit differently. The pictures below will illustrate better what I want to say. Acadian dealers were almost always, if not always Pontiac dealers as well. However, I am not able to prove that all Pontiac dealers were Acadian dealers.

Here is an Acadian manual and a Nova manual, both from Canadian cars. Notice what it says on the back. For the Nova it's at your Cheverolet dealer, and the Acadian it's at the Acadian dealer, not the Pontiac dealer. I don't have copies of the Beaumont and Chevelle manuals but it's the same as Acadian as far as I've ever seen.

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/1964GTO/Acadianmanual.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/1964GTO/Acadianmanual1.jpg

I think this sums it up. Definately a Pontiac.

I remember seeing a Canadian GM ad in a 1965 Reader's Digest. It listed the GM divisions, Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, Acadian,...

They did not list the models in that ad, they seemed to list the divisions, and Acadian was on the list. Acadian was a marque unto itself, at least as late as 1965. The A-body Beaumont was still considered an Acadian (check out the nameplates on one sometime).
For 1966 the Beaumont was no longer an Acadian. GM didn't seem to really belabor the marketing of the Acadian, Beaumont and Canadian Pontiacs - people kind of assumed they were Pontiacs sold at Pontiac dealers in Canada in place of the true blue-blood Pontiacs. A '65 Beaumont Sport Deluxe or an Acadian Sport Deluxe wore the same spinner wheelcovers as the ones that were sometimes found on the Tempest / Lemans / GTO, but they were blank where the nameplate would go, just like the corporate wire wheelcovers on any Canadian Pontiac / Acadian / Beaumont. It seems they never quite resolved it and left it up to assumption. Maybe they were trying to stir up controversy for those that were paying attention, just like the Beatles with all the "Paul is dead" inferences back in the sixties. Na...

I had seen George Zappora write that "everybody knew that Beaumonts were Pontiacs...". That does not make it official in my mind, but the fact that all were under the 7th GM division, Pontiac Canada does indeed suggest it is so.

I suspect that we will continue to flog this to death and never resolve it. Both sides of the camp can support their views. I suspect that we are reading into all of this more than was ever intended. Yes, inquiring minds want to know and that is healthy. I don’t think a verdict can be handed down.

I think this sums it up. Definately a Pontiac.

No, not at all. I have a manual like that for 65. It covers Pontiac and Beaumont and Acadian. That is what is meant on the cover.

What does it say on a Beaumont title? That might be the definitive answer.

What does it say on a Beaumont title? That might be the definitive answer.

Mine says "Pontiac two door sedan".
GM everything, Pontiac dash, Beaumont emblems..... it's like a Mutt. A heinz 57 car.

:D

Lots of opinions here, so here's mine. Whatever the title says (like Steve's) is what it is. You can call it anything you want on the badging or not have any badging at all. You can put names on the literature or have no names at all. You can sell it at a Pontiac dealer or a used car lot, but the title is the legal description of the vehicle so if it says Pontiac on the title, it's a Poncho in my book.

We dont have titles in manitoba, so what do we call them here? for many years the closest thing we had to a title referred to them as Chev-Beaumont, so would that make them a Chevy? ...then about 10 years ago or something they changed to Pontiac-Beaumont ...what makes the title issue less conclusive is that the since they typically require and manufacturer and model, then people were forced to call them something, not sure how they would have dealt with that... a beaumont-beaumont?

If there labelled Pontiac anywhere in the world then they are Pontiac. Two different companies dont make the same car...

If you want to relabel your Beaumont to Chevy then I'll relabel my clone as a real SS...

Pontiac made it, Pontiac Titled it, Pontiac made the documents. Pontiac book, pontiac parts.

Pontiac.

We dont have titles in manitoba, so what do we call them here? for many years the closest thing we had to a title referred to them as Chev-Beaumont, so would that make them a Chevy? ...then about 10 years ago or something they changed to Pontiac-Beaumont ...what makes the title issue less conclusive is that the since they typically require and manufacturer and model, then people were forced to call them something, not sure how they would have dealt with that... a beaumont-beaumont?

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I guess it can get cloudy at times. My '03 Suburban is noted on the title as being a Chevrolet, but even though the badge on the back door says Suburban, the title calls it a Carryall for model description.

If there labelled Pontiac anywhere in the world then they are Pontiac. Two different companies dont make the same car...

If you want to relabel your Beaumont to Chevy then I'll relabel my clone as a real SS...

Pontiac made it, Pontiac Titled it, Pontiac made the documents. Pontiac book, pontiac parts.

Pontiac.


Your info is a little off here. Pontiac DID NOT build Beaumonts. They were built by GM of Canada. They were sold through Pontiac dealers. As AK said, a make and model is required when registering any automobile. Since they were sold through Pontiac dealers, Pontiac was used as the make.
James

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. I guess it can get cloudy at times. My '03 Suburban is noted on the title as being a Chevrolet, but even though the badge on the back door says Suburban, the title calls it a Carryall for model description.


Years ago, Suburbans, IH Travelall would be "carryalls"---(I think GMC used the model designation of Carryall.)

Jeeps, Bronco, Blazer/Jimmy, Scout would be "utility"

Have no idea how they are classified now that most everyone calls everything a "SUV" or "Crossover" (whatever the hell a x-over is:confused:)

If there labelled Pontiac anywhere in the world then they are Pontiac. Two different companies dont make the same car...

If you want to relabel your Beaumont to Chevy then I'll relabel my clone as a real SS...

Pontiac made it, Pontiac Titled it, Pontiac made the documents. Pontiac book, pontiac parts.

Pontiac.


Thats sort my point... pontiac didnt make it and didnt title it. there's no documentation from the period that says its a pontiac. It doesnt have to be re-labeled in the first place. Kinda like going up to a gmc truck and calling it a pontiac or buick truck since they are sold at GM-Pontiac-Buick dealers. :noway:

There is docs...

Look above.

There was NO car made called the PONTIAC.

The pictures posted above are just one example. To me the manual means, Pontiac Beaumont manual.

The picture of the dash could be proof as well.

PROVE that it isnt. Theres more proof of what it is...

There is docs...

Look above.

There was NO car made called the PONTIAC.

The pictures posted above are just one example. To me the manual means, Pontiac Beaumont manual.

The picture of the dash could be proof as well.

PROVE that it isnt. Theres more proof of what it is...

Not Really Shane. I believe that chassis manual says, Pontiac, Acadian, Beaumont , in the same way my 1968 chassis manual says Chevrolet, Chevelle, Camaro, Chevy 2, and Corvette

The answer to the original question is "Who cares?" A Beaumont is a unique Canadian muscle car with better styling than a chevelle, but then I am kind of biased. I used to think it was a Pontiac too, until I started researching it.

Face it, the Beaumonts/Acadians are the GM bastard stepchildren. SD like a Pontiac, instead of Chevy's SS models, but with chevy engines? That isn't a Pontiac OR Chevy, it is a GM mix-breed.

Not Really Shane. I believe that chassis manual says, Pontiac, Acadian, Beaumont , in the same way my 1968 chassis manual says Chevrolet, Chevelle, Camaro, Chevy 2, and Corvette

Terry,

I think your manual is saying Chevrolet, Chevelle Camaro Chevy 2 and Corvette...and to top it all off they are ALL CHEVY's.

Meaning what company followed by what model. All car manuals are like that so the person looking at the manual know exactly what it is.

Chevrolet shows possesion followed by what is possessed... you just backed up my argument.

You cant win when noone will accept the simple little things about it...

The arguement really has no end...

there are those who take facts to what they want them to mean and then others who take the same facts to what they want them to mean...

All the cars made are from GM. It doesnt really matter what SUBcompany made them. They are all GM...

Face it, the Beaumonts/Acadians are the GM bastard stepchildren. SD like a Pontiac, instead of Chevy's SS models, but with chevy engines? That isn't a Pontiac OR Chevy, it is a GM mix-breed.

All Canadian built Pontiacs had Chevy engines and chassis. Canadian Pontiac models were named differently from the US models. In the sixties the full size Canadian Pontiacs were Strato chief, Laurentian and Parisienne. In the US they were Catalina Ventura and Bonneville.

What are the Beaumont Acadian owners trying to accomplish with figuring out who is the creator?:confused:

What are the reasons for the cars being Pont?
What are the reasons for the cars being not Pont?
Do you want them to be Chevy?

What are the reasons for this disagreement?

What an argument....I've read all the posts and this is what I've come up with, a Beaumont is:

Everything and nothing at the same time. I think it should be called a GM Beaumont:yes:

What are the Beaumont Acadian owners trying to accomplish with figuring out who is the creator?:confused:

What are the reasons for the cars being Pont?
What are the reasons for the cars being not Pont?
Do you want them to be Chevy?

What are the reasons for this disagreement?

This is the whole topic of this thread. Acadians and Beaumonts were built in Canada because in the sixties the big three had to have some cars built in Canada to satisfy the government. GM Canada used existing tooling to create a midsize car for the Canadian market. It was a hodge podge of parts. Basically a Chevy body with the interior from a Pontiac and Chevy drive train. The exterior trim was made specifically for these cars and hard to find now. These cars have a specific VIN number, I think the first digit is seven or eight (I think it depends on the year and series) that was not used by any other GM division. This is where the origin questions start. Generally these cars were sold by Pontiac dealers but from this thread I have learned that there were also specific Acadian Beaumont dealers also in some parts of Canada. I grew up when these cars were new and always considered them Pontiacs, I have also owned a couple. Both my cars were titled as Pontiacs, but they were both sold new by Pontiac dealers. I wonder if an Acadian dealer sold the car new, if it would have been titled Acadian?
Paul

thanks !

when asked, i state ; it's a g.m - beauvelle- iac .

Sooooo.

Is the Alstate a Sears or a Crosly??????

When I looked at the photos of the dash 'moniker' at the beginning of this thread, the first think that struck me is,,,
That emblem looks for all the world like the typical low profile plastic emblems of the eighties. The kind that are applied with two-sided tape.
The texture of the letters and the font just smack of something you would see on an early eighties Phoenix or something.

I'm not at all convinced it wasn't put there by someone with thoughtfull craftmanship, after the car's tenth birthday.

My 2 cents

When I looked at the photos of the dash 'moniker' at the beginning of this thread, the first think that struck me is,,,
That emblem looks for all the world like the typical low profile plastic emblems of the eighties. The kind that are applied with two-sided tape.
The texture of the letters and the font just smack of something you would see on an early eighties Phoenix or something.

I'm not at all convinced it wasn't put there by someone with thoughtfull craftmanship, after the car's tenth birthday.

My 2 cents

Tom, I took those pictures and I can assure you it is embossed into the dash as I said. It is not a " sticky tape" kind of thing as you suggest! Don't you ever accuse me of ever being dishonest!

Tom, I took those pictures and I can assure you it is embossed into the dash as I said. It is not a " sticky tape" kind of thing as you suggest! Don't you ever accuse me of ever being dishonest!Terry, you totally missunderstood my post. No need to get defensive. I never accused you of being dishonest.:noway:

The reference to two-sided tape was merely to further clarrify the type of emblem I was talking about. I can clearly see that the one in your photo is "embossed" in the dash.
It does not look like the type of badging attachment that GM would employ on any 1960s car to me. Most everything I can think of for that period was attached or molded like an 'outie bellie button'. Just like the Beaumont emblem on the glovebox.
I don't think it's out of the question that someone at one point in this car's 40 year life, removed the dashpad and craftily made a window for a Pontiac badge. That doesn't mean they were being dishonest either. People do all kinds of thing's to add character to their cars.

I think we solved that dash issue a while back, its off a 72 lemans... not original to the car... my car has been called "some kind of mopar product" at the Canton, SD car show... if you own a Beaumont you develop a bit of thick skin around people not knowing!hahaha! I also had to choose between being in the 'chevelle' or 'gto' class...i picked chevelle!

ak

p.s. you know i hear people saying that nobody would have been cloning these cars way back when... but my car was painted in 1972, the bodyman also had another 67 beaumont, originally butternut yellow, 327, PG, custom model, and in pictures from '72 he already painted it white, black vinyl top, put SD emblems and a BBC in it!! by the mid 80's that same car was painted black and had A/C dash installed (never available in a beaumont! it was from a 67 lemans)

Do you have any pictures of the whole dash?

I've owned quite a few Pontiacs in my day -- 68 GTO, 66 LeMans, conv., 71 LeMans, and a 77 Can Am and that Pontiac emblem in the dash sure like it came from the 70's era. Regardless of whether that's original or not, it sure does LOOK like a factory produced dash, so if sometime over the years someone did pull the dash and do it, they did a damn good job! I don't believe I've ever seen a Beaumont or Acadian in person or I would have remembered, but my thinking is that it's really just a GM product that was sold mostly if not all thru Pontiac dealerships, so that's why many people consider it a Pontiac. This post leaves me to think that the answer is probably one that we'll never know for sure.........
Maybe Jim Wangers, the GTO guru and long time Pontiac exec would know. 64elkynss

That isn't a Pontiac OR Chevy, it is a GM mix-breed.

this is the way I think too.
Combined with a whole bunch of "who cares, just drive".
:hurray:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v253/hypasteve/beaumont/IMGP3175.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v253/hypasteve/beaumont/IMGP3178.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v253/hypasteve/beaumont/IMGP3177.jpg

Yup, a mix just breeds out the weaknesses and develops a healthier sample!! I'd call it a GM Beaumont... pretty much a chevelle, with its great powertrain, but with a way nicer dash and some real chrome!

ak

^
I'm with you, man.
I had a pic of the Edelbrock 67' Chevelle the other day while I was working on the Beau. Both are awesome cars, but I prefer the Beau for sheer style and rarity.

That said, my favorite is still the 66' Chevelle.
:beers:


Do you have any pictures of the whole dash?

Here you go.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v253/hypasteve/beaumont/IMGP3303.jpg

this is the way I think too.
Combined with a whole bunch of "who cares, just drive".
:hurray:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v253/hypasteve/beaumont/IMGP3175.jpg



the lower half sure looks like a pontiac symbol with a hint of Canada on top...

the lower half sure looks like a pontiac symbol with a hint of Canada on top...

It sure does.
I had the car at a buddy's alignment shop the other day and there was a G8 in the next bay. I looked over at the Pontiac emblem, and could see some family resemblance, with the maple leaf addition on the Beaumont.

It's a pretty cool emblem design, and damn near impossible to find.

I'll add my 2 cents

Several years ago I tried to track this question down, and I cannot remember where I found this, but

PRIOR to late '66, early '67, ACADIAN was a separate division of GM Canada - same as Pontiac, Chevrolet, Buick etc. The Acadian cars were sold & serviced through the Pontiac dealership network. (I believe Pontiac, Buick, Acadian & GMC trucks were sold by the same dealer network. Chev-Olds through a separate dealer network.

In late '66/early'67, GM folded Acadian motor division and rolled the Beaumont into the PONTIAC motor division. Pontiac continued to develop & market the Beaumont for a couple years in Canada.

As I understand it, the actual "Acadian" car - which was the Canadian version of the Nova - disappeared after Acadian was folded into Pontiac.

If I find the reference to the above, I will post it.

Wes

Correction to the above - and apologies to any Acadian owners.. :o

I was wrong, apparently the Nova-equivalents were produced after Beaumonts became Pontiacs - not sure of the last year for Acadians, but I undedrstand it was after 1967.

I just looked at some GM Canada documentation for a '66 Beaumont SD 396. It lists the car as being a 1966 Pontiac Beaumont Sport Deluxe 396.

I have a '66 SD will all the original documents. Nowhere does it say "Pontiac", only "Acadian" Beaumont.

Hmmm :confused:

Sorry for the wrong info.
Wes

I think 1971 was the last year for the Acadians.
James

Hi Wes, I would think that there might be something there in terms of beaumonts being under some other banner when they split from acadian in 66... Beaumont was 4 years 66-69 in canada, and till '71 in chile (using a 69)

One thing to keep in mind that if the documents that you are refering to are the GM Vintage Vehicle docs that state Pontiac, that they admit that they put that on there, even though there is no historical documentation stating its a pontiac, but he puts it on his memo because he thinks most people think its a pontiac...

ak

ak

Thanks for that - just as you suspected, I was reading it off of a GM Canada Vintage Vehicle document, so maybe it doesn't mean anything. I am pretty sure my car was an Acadian Beaumont and NOT a Pontiac Beaumont - though it really doesn't make much difference.

I thought that some of the early Acadian, Nova-equivalents, were actually labelled Beaumonts (pre-'64). Then in 1964 Beaumont was used for the Chevelle-based car, and the Nova-based car became simply an Acadian, or a Canso. Not sure if the Canso was a specific model of the Acadian or if all Nova-based Acadians were Canso's.

You would think the history would be pretty well known, but I hear lots of versions.

Thanks
Wes

Why cant they just admit it is or isnt?

I cant imagine a VINTAGE FACTUAL Dcoument would have information on it like that...

"becasue people thought it was???"

ak
Not sure if the Canso was a specific model of the Acadian or if all Nova-based Acadians were Canso's.

You would think the history would be pretty well known, but I hear lots of versions.

Thanks
Wes

My brother owned an Acadian Invader (chevy 11 style), so I think Canso was a higher trim level than an Invader.

Paul

Just to add fuel to the fire, my 1967 sales brochure doesn't have the words "Pontiac" or "Acadian" on it. It merely lists "General Motors Products of Canada, Limited, Oshawa, Ontario".

The standard engines are:
230ci Econoflame 6 (140hp)
283ci Econoflame 8 (195hp)
396 Econo-jet 8 (325hp)

With a few other GM engine options.
The bottom line is that the only thing Pontiac about this car is the fact that they used the LeMans dash and sold them in Pontiac dealers. The car is a GM Canada product, with no ties to Pontiac outside of the dealer network.

If there was a Beaumont on a Honda dealership lot, would that make it a Honda?

Yup! I'm with Hypa, 100%... i know fishhead is just bored and trying to stir up some debate, all good...

Fishhead the 'vintage' docs I'm refering to, are not 'vintage'... they come from GM Vintage Vehicle services which provides a documenting service, it is a reasonably official peice of documentation which is printed more recently, it is not from the 'era' ... it is a great peice of paper, even though George does list it as a pontiac, since it documents the cars option list, body style (ie. SD or not for example) and engine build date and codes as well, which really puts a cramp on counterfeiters...

this really isnt a debate at all, its not subjective...its a bit cloudy, but the cars are what they are, they are not pontiacs. if they were they would say pontiac on them, and on the literature. and if they were/are, it doesnt really matter. In some ways gm was kinda foolish to not make them a pontiac or a chevy, they lost a lot brand recognition by trying to create something new, and thats not easy to do.

ak

I love the debate.
:beers:

At least until I get the cash together for the next modification. Then we can talk tech again, hehe.

call it a ; g.m beauvelle-iac . covers it all ! :beers:

Yup! I'm with Hypa, 100%... i know fishhead is just bored and trying to stir up some debate, all good...

Fishhead the 'vintage' docs I'm refering to, are not 'vintage'... they come from GM Vintage Vehicle services which provides a documenting service, it is a reasonably official peice of documentation which is printed more recently, it is not from the 'era' ... it is a great peice of paper, even though George does list it as a pontiac, since it documents the cars option list, body style (ie. SD or not for example) and engine build date and codes as well, which really puts a cramp on counterfeiters...

I know...thats why I should have stated..."I cant imagine a FACTUAL Dcoument would have information on it like that..." Which leads me to say again...Why cant they just admit it is or isnt? Seems like they have no?

this really isnt a debate at all, its not subjective...its a bit cloudy, but the cars are what they are, they are not pontiacs.

You say.

if they were they would say pontiac on them, and on the literature. and if they were/are

There has been proof of this, but the people that dont want them to be, say they arent and wont believe it. So yes, it is a debate and I am not going to change my mind just because you say so. Theres been more proof that they are then they arent.


it doesnt really matter. In some ways gm was kinda foolish to not make them a pontiac or a chevy, they lost a lot brand recognition by trying to create something new, and thats not easy to do.


There is no loss of brand recognition. Most people think they are Pontiacs.

So yes, it is a debate and I am not going to change my mind just because you say so.

Believe what you want. Some people believe aliens gave us the pyramids. Some people believe that multiple wives is the right way. Some people believe that front wheel drive is the penultimate performance driveline.

Bottom line, you can believe what you want, and it's no skin off my nuts. If you want to believe that the sea is made of jello, so be it. As far as I'm concerned, that's about as asinine an argument, as this one has become.

First I would start posting proof that it ISNT a Ponitac...
Second I would start emailing everyone including the repo people that they really ARENT selling Pontiac parts
Third I would like to see a Pontiac Pontiac...

and forth...


Believe what you want. Some people believe aliens gave us the pyramids. Some people believe that multiple wives is the right way. Some people believe that front wheel drive is the penultimate performance driveline.

Bottom line, you can believe what you want, and it's no skin off my nuts. If you want to believe that the sea is made of jello, so be it. As far as I'm concerned, that's about as asinine an argument, as this one has become.


this is something we agree on...

AT the risk of dragging this on forever.

Here's a couple scans from my Owner's Manual:
Front Cover:
http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt59/fatherwes/OwnerManualFrontCover.jpg

Back Cover:
http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt59/fatherwes/OwnerManualBackCover.jpg

And Welcome page (Inside cover)
http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt59/fatherwes/OwnerManualInsideCover.jpg

Notice the Pontiac reference on the covers and frequent reference to Pontiac and Pontiac dealerships ..... not .....

I think it's pretty clearly an ACADIAN Beaumont.

Not an Acadian Acadian or Beaumont Beaumont or a Pontiac anything - although it was in fact purchased originally at a Pontiac Acadian Buick GM Truck Dealership, so I imagine there might be the odd person who would call it a Buick Beaumont.

Wes

Sadly, I don't think it's going to matter anymore.


DETROIT — According to a source at General Motors, the company will announce next Monday its new "faster, deeper" reorganization plan, which will likely include a death sentence for the Pontiac brand.


http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=146706?mktcat=enabler&AID=10364102&PID=3202266&kw=N&synpartner=edmunds&mktid=cj260233

:(

It would be niice to have a 100% confirmation but I don't think we will ever get that. But the one thing that bothers me just a little bit is the fact that those of you that don't think it's a Pontiac, or don't want it to be a Pontiac, (the "naysayers" so to speak,)
chose to over look or ignore some of the things that say it may be. The biggest example is the dash I took a photo of that clearly says PONTIAC on it. We find out that it is identical to a 1972 Lemans dash. But here is the kicker. That dash was in there prior to 1971! So if the second owner of that car says he never replaced the dash and he owned the car in 71, them please explain to me how that 1972 lemans dash got into that car.

Sometimes people forget things. I know I can't remember every thing I've done in the last 40 years. If that dash is original to the car show us another 1969 Beaumont or LeMans with the same dash. Post a picture of the dash on Performance Years, the Pontiac site, and ask what it originally came out of.
James

http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/

BCICE

Believe it or not I am actually not disagreeing with you. As I understand it, Acadian Motors was discontinued in late '60's. (This may have occurred in 1969 at which time GM Canada reports:

"Major operating subsidiaries of GM Corporation in Canada consolidated to form General Motors of Canada Limited with head office in Oshawa"

The Beaumont may have officially been a Pontiac product after Acadian was no more - which could explain your dash. It also just adds to the confusion.

I don't have access to the same level of documentation for a '69+ Beaumont, but for the time prior to the dissolution of Acadian Motors, I am absolutely convinced that the Beaumont and Acadian were not Pontiacs. Based on the documentation I do have (for the '66) it seems clear that GM Canada was not marketing this car as a Pontiac and I have seen many references to the Acadian Division of GM Canada.

I am pretty sure the Owner's Manual and Warranty info for any 1966 Pontiac would be telling you to take your car back to your Pontiac Dealer.

I will agree that almost everyone calls them Pontiac Beaumonts. But then I go to the store & buy Kleenex, Varsol or Aspirin - all of which are tradenames and the package I pull off the shelf does not actually use those names. I would not be surprised if the confusion started at the dealers themselves because no one had heard of the Acadian Division.

Wes

Sometimes people forget things. I know I can't remember every thing I've done in the last 40 years. If that dash is original to the car show us another 1969 Beaumont or LeMans with the same dash. Post a picture of the dash on Performance Years, the Pontiac site, and ask what it originally came out of.
James

http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/

James, with all due respect. only someone that was going senile would not remember replacing a dashboard and I can assure you he is not senile. Why would anyone replace a dash that was only a year or 2 old? A wiring fire perhaps? I think he would have remembered a fire.

The point you seem to be missing is that that dash wasn't used in a car until the 1972 model year. If it was used in 1969 there would be other cars with the same dash pad. If you can show me other 1969 Pontiacs or Beaumonts with that pad I'll admit I was wrong and shut up.
James

The point you seem to be missing is that that dash wasn't used in a car until the 1972 model year. If it was used in 1969 there would be other cars with the same dash pad. If you can show me other 1969 Pontiacs or Beaumonts with that pad I'll admit I was wrong and shut up.
James

The guy that used to own the car is neither senile nor a BS'er. He says it was in there, I hav no reason not to believe him. Like I said earlier, when I have time I am going to climb under the dash and see if there is any evidence that it may have been replaced

The point you seem to be missing is that that dash wasn't used in a car until the 1972 model year. If it was used in 1969 there would be other cars with the same dash pad. If you can show me other 1969 Pontiacs or Beaumonts with that pad I'll admit I was wrong and shut up.
James
Well, in 1976 the dealer put a brand new dash in our 1974 Biscayne due to a large crack. That's a 2 year old car getting a new dash at the dealer, and that is my point. In our case they used a current new 1976 dashpad and used spray vinyl to match it to the interior of our car.

Come to think of it they used NOS 1974 seats front and rear to replace the pathetic seats that ripped within 6 months. The replacements ripped within a year despite being very careful. Our '74 Biscayne was a turd, going through 2 complete sets of Uniroyal radials under warranty by 1977. The shocks were bad on the car. The bodyside moldings all drooped and fell off. The dome light fell off when you slammed the trunk. The heater core leaked. The carpet was not laid out properly and had a large wrinkle it it, plus it always was shedding wads of fuzz. The windows would pull out of the tracks at speed. The weatherstripping was not durable. I could go on, but suffice to say that GM lost dad as a customer for life.

I found a new car ad for a '69 Beaumont. The ad directs you to your nearest PONTIAC dealership.

Similar ads for 64, 65 and 66 tell you to see your ACADIAN dealer..

I haven't found ads for 67 or 68.

Didn't sunbeam alpine come with a 289 v8? Does that make it a ford? Didn't the jeep use a chevy 6 in it. That doesn't make it a chevy. To my way of thinking, as others have said, it is what it is no matter what name you want to put on it and nomatter who sold it. If it's tagged a Beaumont @POS it's a Beaumont ( made in America and assembled in Canada) IMO.

Remember the flap in the '80s when GM started installing engines from different divisions in different cars?... Olds 307's in Caprices, Buick 231's in everything, Chev 350's in anything? Then they came up with the brilliant "GM Corporate Engines" legaleze and covered their butts with "Engine may be produced by different division than vehicle name".

Vega/Astre & Apollo/Nova/Ventura are combo cars. Virtually identical except for cosmetics & badging.


Oh, does anyone complain that they have a "Fisher" body on their Chevrolet car?... (we're all actually driving "Fishers" with Chevrolet drivetrains) Is it a Fisher or a Chevrolet?

A Beaumont is the model name of a GM vehicle marketed by the Acadian Division, that was sold in Canada by Acadian Dealers (who in many cases also had the Pontiac line), that was built from various parts in the GM mid-size car line..... how confusing is that?

My grandfather bought his Beaumont new at a Pontiac dealership in 69.
I bought my 68 post coupe 20yrs ago and the ownership says Pontiac.

Several years ago when Beaumonts were not well known and actually scrapped for not being Chevelles I did some research to find some OEM old stock parts. I spoke with the service manager from our local BOP dealer and he pointed me to some good sources. During our conversations I asked him what was with the Beaumont being a Pontiac?
This was his answer.
Pontiac Canada bought Chevy Chevelle bodies and then refit them under special order through Pontiac with Lemans interiors. Because the Interiors were the last thing put into the car they were sold through Pontiac dealerships. Acadians were birthed the same way. Even the 79-83 Acadian (Chevette body) was birthed through the same mechanisms.
So to make a long story short you have a really nice hybrid with an official Pontiac badge but has Chevy origins.

Funny… no one disputes the Chevette Acadian heritage? It too had a chevy engine.
Jim

Now here are some fighting words :D

I spoke with a pontiac mechanic who worked on Beaumonts and he will sware on a Bible that the 1968 SD 396 Beaumont had more horsepower than the 68 Chevelle SS 396.

His explination had to do with Emissions. He said that Canada adpoted the Emission laws one year later than the US. So the emissions were not hindering the Canadian side.

Now I believe from my research that the EGR valve was the only emmision requirements back then and that it was esstablished in 69 not 68.
So I am unsure to the validity of his statement.
Does anyone know?

Now here are some fighting words :D

I spoke with a pontiac mechanic who worked on Beaumonts and he will sware on a Bible that the 1968 SD 396 Beaumont had more horsepower than the 68 Chevelle SS 396.

His explination had to do with Emissions. He said that Canada adpoted the Emission laws one year later than the US. So the emissions were not hindering the Canadian side.

Now I believe from my research that the EGR valve was the only emmision requirements back then and that it was esstablished in 69 not 68.
So I am unsure to the validity of his statement.
Does anyone know?

Hi Jim and welcome to TC. I don't understand his thinking. If there were chevelles and beaumonts both being built in Canada then would not the 396's all have come from the same engine plant

Now here are some fighting words :D

I spoke with a pontiac mechanic who worked on Beaumonts and he will sware on a Bible that the 1968 SD 396 Beaumont had more horsepower than the 68 Chevelle SS 396.

His explination had to do with Emissions. He said that Canada adpoted the Emission laws one year later than the US. So the emissions were not hindering the Canadian side.

Now I believe from my research that the EGR valve was the only emmision requirements back then and that it was esstablished in 69 not 68.
So I am unsure to the validity of his statement.
Does anyone know?

GM Canada was using the same emissions equipment at that time both north and south of the border. It is true that the official emissions requirements did lag in Canada sometimes (even into the 1980s), although we got catalytic converters for 1975 as well. Importing a new car from France or Britain into the 1970s was nothing. Today though it is much different. We have government agencies that need to exert force in order to justify their own existence. Import a car from the U.S. is impractical now because of the little requirements in place. They even want to bring in California emissions requirements (why on earth? California has specific local geographical reasons for having the most stringent emissions requirements on earth).


As far as the Beaumont having more power than the Chevelle, false! They never offered a solid lifter 375-horse 396 in the Beaumont, but you could order one in a Chevelle and have it built in the U.S. for a local Canadian dealer.

As to the emission controls. I recently bought a Canadian Malibu 307 PG. One thing I found unusual - the engine bay is completely devoid on any emissions equipment, even though the car was made to be imported into the U.S. A. It was sold new in Des Moines Iowa. Exhaust manifolds have NO provision for an A.I.R. system. Car has 65,000 original miles and looks completely stock. Engine is the original one and has Made in Canada parts on it, too! (cast into the intake manifold) K on the engine block ID indicates a Canadian engine.

Dan

To start off with the dash and the glove box both look like they have the same fade on them and discoloration. And also it does not look like someone ever chamged that somewhere down the road. There is Beaumont's in florida with a Pontiac factory emblem so don't let them fool you they did put there emblem on them.

[QUOTE=Cam;2326222]Well, in 1976 the dealer put a brand new dash in our 1974 Biscayne due to a large crack. That's a 2 year old car getting a new dash at the dealer, and that is my point. QUOTE]

Sorry Cam, I just noticed you posted this last month. I am going to print this real slowly... So you please read it real slowly so you understand!! LOL . You said your car got a new dash at 2 years old. Fine! Well this car had this dash in it when it was ONE year old (1970). Now, if that dash is from a 1972 le mans, please explain to me how it got into the 1969 car in 1970? If anyone has an explanation, I am all ears.

With all due respect, you are the one claiming the 1972 dash was installed in the car in 1970. I would think it is up to you to prove it happened that way. Previous owners claiming the dash was installed in 1970 doesn't prove it happened. Just my opinion.
James

With all due respect, you are the one claiming the 1972 dash was installed in the car in 1970. I would think it is up to you to prove it happened that way. Previous owners claiming the dash was installed in 1970 doesn't prove it happened. Just my opinion.
James

Well lets re-hash the facts for a moment. Kevins Dad bought this car in 1970 and brought it here to Port Hardy in 1970 and that dash was in there then. Having a dash changed would not be a small thing and I would think he would recall if it did happen. He is not a BS'r nor is his memory gone. And dems da facts. Not opinions, or guesses. Facts. I was not the first to say it was a dash from a 72 lemans. Someone else did and showed a picture and I agreed it looked the same. So how the heck did it get in there in 1970? We are not assuming it was, we know it was. Maybe they made that dash for 69 Beaumonts and decided to re-use the tooling for a Lemans in 72 since they were not making Beaumonts anymore. I know, a huge stretch to say the least but stranger things have happened. You see, I am still of the opinion that a Beaumont is a Pontiac. Some say that there was never Pontiac written on a Beaumont anywhere. I showed the picture of this dash to say, I think there was. I say that this dash was in there in 1970 and it is not up to me to prove it. I have given all the evidence I can. I think it is up to the doubters to prove it was not. Prove to me that dash was not built in 1969.
Don't just say, It could not have been because that dash was not produced until 1972. Thats not proof. It may well have been produced here in Canada where Beaumonts were assembled but not in the U.S. until 1972.

There were 12,982 Beaumonts built in 1969. Show me another one with the same dash and I'll admit I was wrong.
James

Edit; Chevy VINs start with a 1, Pontiac VINS start with a 2 and Beaumont VINs start with a 7. If they are Pontiacs why would the VIN not start with a 2 like the other Pontiacs?
James

There were 12,982 Beaumonts built in 1969. Show me another one with the same dash and I'll admit I was wrong.
James

Edit; Chevy VINs start with a 1, Pontiac VINS start with a 2 and Beaumont VINs start with a 7. If they are Pontiacs why would the VIN not start with a 2 like the other Pontiacs?
James

I sure understand what you are saying John. It's just that I know the people, and know they would remember if the dash was changed. I also know they don't BS. So, How did this happen? How did this dash get in this car? Another one of those that we will probably never solve. Where is Colombo when you need him?

good to see it's still a hot topic.. LOL.. either way.. I love my Beaumont..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First time visitor here today! As mentioned in another thread, I have a 66 Beaumont SD Convertible and was surprised to read here that it may not be a Pontiac. While there are certainly many compeling arguments as to why it is or isn't, one more angle that I haven't seen mentioned in these threads(although it may have been) is that the build sheet from GM Canada (recently issued, not an original) calls it a Pontiac Beaumont. I wonder if any of the original build sheets refer to it as such?...

A good debate going on here, clearly a lot of people are confused as to what to call their cars. The people on the site below have their cars labled as Pontiacs. There are only three true Pontiacs on the page, Right?

http://www.musclecarjungle.com/muscle-car-gallery/pontiac/pontiac-gallery1.htm

The blue one looks like a Chevy Nova.... so Acadian is a nova with different trim and interior like The Beaumont?

I will never forget my first Beaumont experience. I was in Niagara Falls (canadian side) Cliffton Hill area, when i saw one coming down the street. I thought cool Chevelle.. as it got closer i saw the Beaumont bagging. Still thinking it was a Chevelle, i thought Beaumont must be what Chevelles are called in canada, hence "Canadian Chevelle."

At the time since it was driving by, i didnt get much chance to pick up on the difference in the trim, that is why i thought it was a Chevelle or a Chevelle built in Canada for lack of a better term. It wasnt untill years later at a car show i happend to get a close up look at a Beaumont and realised they are unique. :D

Hi Geoff, the topic about George at GM vintage vehicle putting Pontiac on the build sheet data has been discussed a bit... he was asked why, and even though there isnt any gm data from the era saying pontiac he was quoted as saying that pretty much everyone knows/thinks they are, and he puts it on the form...

fwiw, on my 1967 Owners Manual and Protection Plan, Protecto-Plate (and sales brochure) it is only listed as 1967 Beaumont and is referenced as a General Motors Product of Canada... and the owners manual states on the back page to get your service done "at you ACADIAN dealer" ... (no pontiac reference in print on these era documents)

I thought it was a pontiac for long time until i learnt otherwise, now i'm in the 'other' camp... its a GM Beaumont... sold at 'gm-pontiac-acadian-vauxhaul' dealers...and commonly refered to a pontiac, but i dont think thats correct, just that was the history of the dealers main brand marque...

ak

but you are using the lack of printed information as facts...

Just because Chevy doesnt put their symbol on a camaro doesnt mean its not chevy...

Just because Chevy doesnt put their symbol on a camaro doesnt mean its not chevy...

Yeah, but look at the owners manual, sales brochures and other factory paperwork. They have Chevrolet all over them. Not a good example to try and argue your case here.
James

Yeah, but look at the owners manual, sales brochures and other factory paperwork. They have Chevrolet all over them. Not a good example to try and argue your case here.
James

Good you posted that ...

I have seen manuals with the words PONTIAC AND BEAUMONT

The 1968 owners manual and warranty book don't have Pontiac in them anywhere. I'm going to have to call you out on this one, show me one that says Pontiac.
James

Fishead is refering to the chassis manual that lists pontiac and acadian and beaumont on the cover.... fishead, you're thoughts are getting :boring::boring::boring:

I think a lot of the confusion on behalf of those who believe these cars are Pontiacs instead of Acadians and Beaumonts stem from the fact that the FULL SIZE cars of a particular brand were named (or at the very least, nicknamed) after the brand, IE: Biscayne, Bel Air, Impala, and Caprice were all different SALES NAMES/ TRIM LEVELS of the CHEVROLET MODEL (Chevrolet being a MODEL -or at least a company ID for the large B-body platform cars-, IN ADDITION to a BRAND or MAKE of car), just as Nomad, 300 Deluxe, Malibu, SS, etc., were all SALES NAMES/ TRIM LEVELS of the CHEVELLE model, CHEVROLET BRAND. Pontiac would have been the same way. This can lead to confusion in Manuals and in print.

The Manual in question in post #20 reads "General Motors Products of Canada" across the bottom. It is a GM MANUAL that covers DIVISIONS, NOT MODELS of PONTIAC, ACADIAN, and BEAUMONT, respectively.

I have several factory manuals laying around, a quick glance through them reveals that:

In my 1969 FISHER Body Service Manual, in the Model Identification Chart, PONTIAC is listed as a DIVISION OF GM. GM of Canada ACADIAN AND BEAUMONT is listed as ANOTHER SEPARATE DIVISION OF GM. GM of Canada PONTIAC is YET ANOTHER DIVISION OF GM, according to this manual.

Adding to the confusion, just as Chevrolet, and Pontiac, were both a Make and Model, so were Acadian and Beaumont. My Fisher book lists the Acadian (x-body based), as well as the Beaumont, Deluxe, and Custom (all A body based) as the available Sales names under the GM of Canada Acadian and Beaumont Division.

According to this same Fisher book, GM of Canada Pontiac had 5 Sales names listed: Strato Chief, Laurentian, Parisienne, 2+2, and Grande Parisienne, which were all B-Body cars, and therefore would have been ID'd (or at the very least nicknamed) PONTIAC in manuals and publications, just as Chevrolet did with their B-body fullsize cars.

This is not to say, that GM of Canada Acadian and Beaumont did not eventually become part of GM of Canada Pontiac, but they WERE SEPARATE DIVISIONS OF GENERAL MOTORS, at least for the first couple of years. Keep in mind my Fisher manual is from 1969 (Copyright August 1968 according to the first page), and still lists them as separate.

Unfortunately, My digital camera is not good enough to take readable pics of my manuals. I'll try to get some pics one way or another.

A lot of oddball stuff has turned up over the years, when those assembly lines were running wide open, and multiple brands being assembled alongside each-other, as well any parts that could be changed during subsequent dealer delivery, service, etc., things are bound to happen that cannot always be explained. Plus, One could assume that Pontiac parts were probably easier to get than the Acadian/ Beaumont specific parts, so they were probably substituted whenever repairs took place.

Going strictly off the title doesn't always work because, as noted, that is really a regional thing that will change from state to state. The fact that GM gave the cars a unique VIN number is pretty much a dead giveaway that they are not Pontiacs.

The dealership does not determine the brand of the vehicle you buy from them. Even if the vehicles in question are very similar.

Ive owned two beaumont SD cars and they never said pontiac but had pontiac emblems on center of grille and on trunk and because Beaumonts were Canadian built there were maple leafe inside the Pontiac emblem Also have a beaumont sevice manual that also includes Pontiacs in it

well its a pontiac cause it says it is

not a pontiac at heart though

So then we have answered the question "When is a Pontiac not a Pontiac?" Answer: "When it's a Beaumont".

So then we have answered the question "When is a Pontiac not a Pontiac?" Answer: "When it's a Beaumont".

Ya!! I like that!

That works for me too. :D

This is my first post here and this topic is one I really enjoy. I grew up during the period and was facinated that we had Canadian specific cars here, some with Maple Leafs, and will try to explain how this came to be. In the U.S., GM was set up with Alfred P Sloans price ladder, his policy of "a car for every purse and purpose". Chevrolet was at the bottom price wise, then Pontiac, Olds, Buick and Cadillac were further up the ladder. The U.S. often had stand alone dealers or any combination of the 6 G.M. divisions including GMC. Here in Canada with it's much smaller population within a large country there was not enough business to justify the wide range of possible dealers so GM of Canada dealers were mostly Chev/Olds OR Pontiac/Buick/GMC. As the Canadian consumer bought mostly basic lower priced vehicles it was necessary to sell Pontiacs at a price comparable to Chevrolet so the Canadian Pontiac was conceived using a basic Pontiac body and interior mounted on a Chevrolet Chassis with Chevrolet engines, transmissions and rear axles. Pontiac mostly used straight 8 engines while Chevy only used 6 cylinders up to 1954 and starting in 1955 Pontiac only used V8 engines but Chevys standard engine was a 6. So with Canadian Pontiacs using Chevy parts the price was about equal for any given comparable model. Also parts and service were much easier to deal with.

When the first Corvair based Pontiac Tempests, Olds F85 and Buick Skylarks were first introduced it 1961 they were very scarce in Canada.

This is where it gets interesting!!!!!

When Chevrolet introduced the much simpler and conventional Chevy II for 1962, Pontiac Canada wanted a Canadian version but Pontiac U.S. refused permission to call it a Pontiac as it used a Chevy II body and mechanicalls and it didn't look anything like a Pontiac. So G.M. Canada created the Acadian Division and built the Acadians we all know and love. Newspaper ads at the time always said see the new Acadian at your General Motors Dealer. The Chevy II Acadians were built from 1962 until 1970. Initially the he top Acadian model was the Beaumont but for 64-67 the top models were Canso and Sport Deluxe. 68-70 were Acadian SS.
Ventura II started in 1971.

However when the Chevelle was introduced in 1964 the Acadian Beaumont became a Chevelle size car with a Pontiac Tempest interior. In 1966 the Acadian name was dropped from the Chevelle based car and they were then just Beaumonts. Super Sport versions were Sport Deluxe/SD or SD 396. The final year for Beaumont was 1969.

So the reason the Acadians and Beaumonts were not Pontiacs was because Pontiac U.S. would not allow it. This was not a mentioned by Pontiac dealers who sold them because they were selling them to people who assumed they were still the Canadian Pontiacs they had come to love. Most got registered as Pontiacs because a Pontiac dealer sold it.
During most of the era Canadian Pontiacs out sold Chevrolet!! It wasn't until after 1970 when U.S. Pontiacs became available that Chevrolet regained the sales lead in Canada.

I hope this was of interest to someone as I type slow!!

Thanks
Randy

PS Trivia: What non GM car used Maple Leafs on it's hubcaps and trim in 1960??

Welcome Randy!! Great post. It looks like you've provided the missing link with this info you've shared. Thanks. You confirmed my suspicions on the origin of these cars.

The answer to your trivia question:

http://www.61thriftpower.com/images2/frontenac.jpg

Thanks for the kind words!! You got the Frontenac answer too fast. LOL
Ford and Chrysler also had Canadian cars for the same reason we had Canadian Pontiacs. I had many, many Chevelles/Beaumonts in my day and wish somehow I would have stashed one away. It seems hard to believe now but muscle cars were not very valuable in the 70's. SS 396's were less desireable than regular Malibu's to most people, but not me so I had a great time.

Great Site

Thanks
Randy

Hi Randy,

... you'll not believe it, but in my country some Acadian Beaumont owners will love your post...

Thx a lot.

Regards,
Arturo.-

Arturo: Thanks for the kind words. Now I will have to search to find some pictures of Acadian Beaumonts in Chile!! I didn't know they were available there so it's nice to learn something new. Do you have any links!!

Thanks
Randy


Hi Randy,

... you'll not believe it, but in my country some Acadian Beaumont owners will love your post...

Thx a lot.

Regards,
Arturo.-

Wow, that is some good info Randy.
I'll keep it in mind the next time someone asks me about my "pontiac".

:thumbsup:

Wow, that is some good info Randy.
I'll keep it in mind the next time someone asks me about my "pontiac".

:thumbsup:

Thanks!!
And I don't doubt the 69 Beaumont dash that was the start of this thread did in fact say Pontiac. Corporate policys and or restrictions can change over the years and once it was decided that Canada would sell Catalinas, Tempests etc. Pontiac USA probably forgot all about Acadians and Beaumonts. It did make it hard on Canadian Pontiac dealers because starting in 1970 they sold both Canadian and American Pontiacs. Canadian Pontiacs were still Chevy powered and the new Catalinas etc. were now Pontiac powered so mechanics, parts people and sales staff now had two very different cars chassis wise to deal with. I remember visiting my friend Dave at the local Pontiac dealership way back and a customer asked Dave for a set of spark plugs for his 1970 Pontiac with a 350 engine and Dave asked him, "do you have the orange engine or the blue engine"? The bewildered customer said back, "I dont know, how do I tell" ?? True story.

Thanks
Randy

It would be niice to have a 100% confirmation but I don't think we will ever get that. But the one thing that bothers me just a little bit is the fact that those of you that don't think it's a Pontiac, or don't want it to be a Pontiac, (the "naysayers" so to speak,)
chose to over look or ignore some of the things that say it may be. The biggest example is the dash I took a photo of that clearly says PONTIAC on it. We find out that it is identical to a 1972 Lemans dash. But here is the kicker. That dash was in there prior to 1971! So if the second owner of that car says he never replaced the dash and he owned the car in 71, them please explain to me how that 1972 lemans dash got into that car.

some 68 chevelles got buick interiors, so by your logic then a chevelle is a buick?

some 68 chevelles got buick interiors, so by your logic then a chevelle is a buick?
I've seen Chevelles with Ford transmissions from the factory but Buick interiors ???? What am I missing.

Thanks
Randy

The plant that did the interiors was on strike for part of the year so some Buick interiors were installed in the 68 Chevelles.
James

The plant that did the interiors was on strike for part of the year so some Buick interiors were installed in the 68 Chevelles.
James
Thanks for the up date James. There is always something new to learn. Did the Chevelles even get the Buick dash too??

Thanks
Randy

some 68 chevelles got buick interiors, so by your logic then a chevelle is a buick?

Why are you answering a question with another question? You obviously have not read the entire thread or you are missing the point. I photographed a dash in a Beaumont that says Pontiac on it and can trace the car back far enough that I am sure the dash has never been changed. That dash was in there in 1970, so how did it get in there if that dash was not made until 1972? I have also seen pictures of the Chevelles with Buick seats etc., but I have never seen one with " Buick" written on the upholstery.

Around 1970 or 71 PMD of Canada also stopped using the ASTRO-FLOW and ASTRO-JET Decals on the Chevy Engines. I remember opening the hood and seeing a TURBO-JET Decal around that time and thought - This is the Beginning of the END for our Canadian Pontiacs.

No Buick dashes just seat covers and door panels. Randy, check the link posted below. You may find it interesting. Beaumonts were built in Chile until 1971 or 72 using the 68 Beaumont bodies. They were Beaumont GTAs and I think most if not all had 6 cylinder engines.
James

http://www.acadianbeaumont.cl/beumoneros.html

Why are you answering a question with another question? You obviously have not read the entire thread or you are missing the point. I photographed a dash in a Beaumont that says Pontiac on it and can trace the car back far enough that I am sure the dash has never been changed. That dash was in there in 1970, so how did it get in there if that dash was not made until 1972? I have also seen pictures of the Chevelles with Buick seats etc., but I have never seen one with " Buick" written on the upholstery.

I read the whole post. You need to go to the current events forum and argue with someone there.

I read the whole post. You need to go to the current events forum and argue with someone there.

I am not argueing. I have stated a fact and backed it up with a photograph. We know some Chevelles got Buick interiors due to the strike. That a given. Thats apples and oranges. For years there has been the arguement weather a Beaumont is a Pontiac.... or not. No one ever seemed to have a definate answer and when I saw that Beaumont with "PONTIAC" clearly embossed above the glove box door, I obviously had to post it here for opinions and discussion. Thats what has happened. I still do not know the correct answer but Randy's post is about the best explanation I have seen so farand I am leaning toward the opinion that it is indeed its own identity.
As for going to current events if I want to argue? With all due respect, I started this thread. You are the only one that posted anything even remotly derogatorey. Perhaps you should go to CE.

I think you should go to CANADIANPONCHO.COM and also lay off the coffee~

This was posted on Canadian Poncho. It got pretty much the same responses as it did here. Everyone has been trying to tell Terry that a 1972 dash pad could not have been installed in a 1969 car unless there was a time machine involved.
James

This is my first post here and this topic is one I really enjoy. I grew up during the period and was facinated that we had Canadian specific cars here, some with Maple Leafs ...
PS Trivia: What non GM car used Maple Leafs on it's hubcaps and trim in 1960??

Great post Randy - Thanks for taking the time to type it up for us.


I haven't been on here for awhile or I would have been able to answer the Trivia quiz too. There was a butchered old Frontenac on my father's property when he passed away. Someone had removed the roof and replaced it with a big canvas canopy affair. Weird, but the Maple Leafs on the emblems caught my eye and I did some research to figure out what it was. Unfortunately I think it ended up in the crusher even though there were some parts that I know someone somewhere would have loved to get ahold of.

Thanks again.

Wes

Around 1970 or 71 PMD of Canada also stopped using the ASTRO-FLOW and ASTRO-JET Decals on the Chevy Engines. I remember opening the hood and seeing a TURBO-JET Decal around that time and thought - This is the Beginning of the END for our Canadian Pontiacs.

Now that you mention this, it occurs to me that the Canadian Pontiac actually out lived the U.S. version as Chevy V8 engines were used to the end but Pontiac engines were discontinued around 1981?? As I remember even the full size Catalina and Bonneville were discontinued around 1982 and the Parisienne lived on even in the U.S. from around 1983 until the end in 1986. Strange!!

Thanks
Randy

Great post Randy - Thanks for taking the time to type it up for us.


I haven't been on here for awhile or I would have been able to answer the Trivia quiz too. There was a butchered old Frontenac on my father's property when he passed away. Someone had removed the roof and replaced it with a big canvas canopy affair. Weird, but the Maple Leafs on the emblems caught my eye and I did some research to figure out what it was. Unfortunately I think it ended up in the crusher even though there were some parts that I know someone somewhere would have loved to get ahold of.

Thanks again.

Wes

Hey Wes:
This is a great thread!! I love Automobile history and the Acadian/Beaumont story is certainly interesting. I saw a thread on another site ( CP??) but was disapointed that it had been closed. Trivia you say: What was Pontiacs last production engine??

Thanks
Randy

No Buick dashes just seat covers and door panels. Randy, check the link posted below. You may find it interesting. Beaumonts were built in Chile until 1971 or 72 using the 68 Beaumont bodies. They were Beaumont GTAs and I think most if not all had 6 cylinder engines.
James

http://www.acadianbeaumont.cl/beumoneros.html
Thanks for the link James. Interesting bunch of Acadians and Beaumonts for sure. Some neat hoods that must have been factory items there?? I've heard they have them in Puerto Rico as well but haven't been able to find any sites. Any links anyone??

Thanks
Randy

I know of a 69 Beaumont that was sold new in Puerto Rico. It was on Ebay a few years ago. I was the second high bidder. It's one of the strangest color combos I've seen on a car, Butternut Yellow with a white painted top and red interior.
James

I think I saw that car at a car show in Sycamore, IL last summer or maybe it was 2 summers ago. I remember guys on here talking about it.

If I remember correctly, the guy that bought it was from Indiana or somewhere close to there. He kept it about a year and resold it. Not sure where it went from there. See the link below for a picture.
James

http://www.detroithorsepower.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2568.0;id=2282;ima ge

that's the one

Trivia you say: What was Pontiacs last production engine??
Thanks
Randy

I'm guessing at either the 301 or the 4 cylinder they put in the Fiero?

I'm guessing at either the 301 or the 4 cylinder they put in the Fiero?

Pretty good guess!! Unless I'm mistaken the 4 cyl. was the last Pontiac engine. It started out as the Iron Duke approx. 1977 and became the Tech IV when it got fuel injected and lasted until about 1994 in some models. Service and parts books usually refer to it as the Pontiac 151. What makes all this interesting to me is that it is built off the 301 platform using 301 tooling. 4" bore and 3" stroke. Nice combination for say a Z28 but not that great for a 4 cylinder.

Thanks
Randy

Arturo: Thanks for the kind words. Now I will have to search to find some pictures of Acadian Beaumonts in Chile!! I didn't know they were available there so it's nice to learn something new. Do you have any links!!

Thanks
Randy

Randy,

... Please sorry this huge delayed answer !

Your post is just amazing. It clarifies a lot the story of these, all, great cars. And in my country there is still passion and pride living in Acadian Beaumonts, Chevelles and Pontiac owners.

I'm not sure if at this moment there is an english version story of the Acadian Beaumont's in Chile but in the following link there is a spanish text that has inspired people here :
http://www.tuerca.cl/articulos/2004/agosto/acadian/

pictures ? .. i'll find out & send you something

Thanks again,
Arturo.-

Here it is in English (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tuerca.cl%2Farticulos%2F2004%2F agosto%2Facadian%2F&sl=es&tl=en&history_state0=)

;)

Here it is in English (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tuerca.cl%2Farticulos%2F2004%2F agosto%2Facadian%2F&sl=es&tl=en&history_state0=)

;)
Thanks for the interpertation!!

Thanks
Randy

Randy,

... Please sorry this huge delayed answer !

Your post is just amazing. It clarifies a lot the story of these, all, great cars. And in my country there is still passion and pride living in Acadian Beaumonts, Chevelles and Pontiac owners.

I'm not sure if at this moment there is an english version story of the Acadian Beaumont's in Chile but in the following link there is a spanish text that has inspired people here :
http://www.tuerca.cl/articulos/2004/agosto/acadian/

pictures ? .. i'll find out & send you something

Thanks again,
Arturo.-

Thanks for kind words and the link Arturo and to HIGHWAYSTAR who provided interpertation to english.
One question: Where I see things advertised there for $35,000,000.oo, approx how much would this be in U.S. $$

From the site:
The mark ---- I think they mean marque

Also from the site:
The Acadians were the descendants of French colonists who settled in Acadia in the Region of Canada

ACADIAN TRIVIA:
What happened to the Acadian people and what did they become ??

Thanks
Randy

I just checked the exchange rate of the Chilean Peso and currently it is 552.050 Chilean pesos to $1.00 US

In your example of 35,000,000.00 Chilean Pesos= $63,389.90 US

...
Also from the site:
The Acadians were the descendants of French colonists who settled in Acadia in the Region of Canada

ACADIAN TRIVIA:
What happened to the Acadian people and what did they become ??
Thanks
Randy

The horrors that were forced upon the Acadian French in the Maritime Provinces (Acadia) by both the British and the rulers in France, when they gave away Acadia to the British are most certainly not trivial.
The ultimate success of the Acadians in Spanish New Orleans was the only good result. Even then they have to endure the bastardization of their name to the crude word "Cajun"

Here is a very passionate capsule of the tragic history of Acadians.

http://www.acadiana.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20&Itemid=1

Dan

ACADIAN TRIVIA:
What happened to the Acadian people and what did they become ??

Thanks
Randy[/QUOTE]

I really didn't mean to offend any thinking people with my question. Trivia to me means a history question and does not imply that it would be trivial.
As I was born and raised in Acadia I have always had an interest in things Acadian and as G.M. Canada named one of their divisions after them I would assume it would be in honor of them. History has been very un kind to many peoples of the world but I think that the storys should be told in an un passionate manner even if politically in correct. I also had no intention of this becoming a political debate, but the history is that the Acadian people who landed in New Orleans and established the French Quarter were known as the Cajuns. Obviously derived from the southern pronunciation of the french Acadian. I think the Cajun heritage is a proud one and if it were not I think the word would have been dropped long ago.

Thanks
Randy

Randy,
I apologize to you. I did not mean to imply that you thought the history of the Acadians was trivial.
I put it in bold to emphasize the tragedy that befell these gentle people.

I believe like you that GM of Canada used the name to honor the heritage of the Acadians.

After centuries of use, the term Cajun is certainly more accepted.
However the Acadian population of Louisiana did not establish the French Quarter. After their arrival in New Orleans they were promptly ushered to the Bayous where they are home today...

Dan

Here's the way I look at it: I don't believe People who considered themselves Acadian, Cajuns or Creole feel demeaned and should be proud of their Ancestry.

In the 1500’s, France establish a Colony named Acadia about the estuary of the St Lawrence to control the entrance to the St Lawrence with 2 Battle Ships which where stationed on 2 Islands “St. Pierre & Miquelon” which still belong to France and famous for their Moonshine and Cuban Cigars ;o) The British rather then engaging with the French simply entered Canada via James Bay. In 1759 they collided on the Plains of Abraham and the French where defeated. "Cajun" comes from the French pronunciation of Acadian.

If visiting Canada’s East Coast, the locals will clarify their heritage as: Scotian, Newfoundlanders, and Labradorians, and don’t consider the US “Newfie” term as endearment. In reality, they do not spell it in its original form, which is “N-e-w-f-y” - LOL. Today, “Cajun” refers to a French Heritage integrated with Irish, English, Dutch, Native and Inuit people. “Creole are Cajun integrated with Black. East Coast Folks have confusing Ancestry and for many of us, irregardless of Race or Colour, the east coast was the Historical Landing Site of Our Ancestors.

Since the building of the Railways and after 2 Wars the North American Contentment is a Collague of Races which not only include the North Europeans but also Asian and Middle East Races to include East Indian, Japanese and Chinese ... etc Plus Spanish/Mayan and Inca integration from South America; in other words, people form all over the World doing their Best to Co-Exist in a Democratic State and be Free of Racism, War and Poverty.

I hope someday Humans will look upon each other as for what we are and Politics has nothing to do with it. Politics has always been controlled by a Gang of Monopolist's Playing a game of Greed. A trait mankind has displayed throughout our brief existence which is a selfish none caring flight without regard for humanity or the planet. It seems to be in our Nature; perhaps some day we will change.

Sish! Enough Ranting - I love Back East Music – It very different and complicated to play.

After centuries of use, the term Cajun is certainly more accepted.
However the Acadian population of Louisiana did not establish the French Quarter. After their arrival in New Orleans they were promptly ushered to the Bayous where they are home today...

Dan[/QUOTE]

Dan:
No need to apologize but I really appreciate your kind words. I was afraid I might have started an unpleasant situation and will sleep better knowing we are not at odds.
Thanks for clearing up my French Quarter / Bayous error.

Respectfully
Randy

What the hell is a "Beaumont"?

The Beaumont is the Canadian Pontiac sister car to the Chevelle. Now to end the dispute they are not, repeat not "Canadian Chevelles" The Beaumont is a separate car line that shares alot of its componets with the Chevelle and the Ponitac LeMans, Tempest, GTO. To further confuse our American friends the Pontiac Beaumont used a complete Chevrolet frame and drive train, which differs from their American counterparts the LeMans, Tempest, GTO.

Beaumonts first started out as the sister car to the Chevy II Nova in 1962 and continued as such until the introduction of the Chevelle in 1964. It is then the Beaumont made the move from the H-Body platform to the A-Body platform. Beaumonts were produced from 1962 to 1969 inclusive.

sigh....dale i'm sure the poor horse is getting tired of being beaten to death...but, wth, a beaumont is not a pontiac. there is no documentation from gm from the period that references it as a pontiac.... it was its own marque, quite rare...

Dale hasn't taken the time to read the thread...
Here we go again!

Dan

There should be a *STICKY* made that just reads A BEAUMONT IS NOT A PONTIAC!!! :yes:

i worked at a GMC dealer in the late 70s and we would get GMC trucks in with Chevy Grilles and Tailgates. we would order correct parts for replacement.

We have a 1965 Acadian Beaumont Sport Deluxe Convertible Original Numbers Matching Engine and the Valve Cover says Pontiac 283 Pontiac. So does this mean Acadian Beaumonts are Pontiacs??

:p Oh Yea? Prove it!! :D
Let's see some pics of that li'l ragtop!
A Chevrolet 283 with Pontiac stickers on it, eh? Pontiac was jealous!
Acadian was it's own brand, but it was a creation of the imagination of GM Canada management. All badges, no engineering, IMHO.

Here is a personal website that shows a dealer promo cigarette lighter with the Acadian logo & lists the make along with Pontiac & Buick available at the dealer. http://www.members.shaw.ca/myownspace/index.htm

Welcome to T/C, btw.

Dan

We have a 1965 Acadian Beaumont Sport Deluxe Convertible Original Numbers Matching Engine and the Valve Cover says Pontiac 283 Pontiac. So does this mean Acadian Beaumonts are Pontiacs??

The definitive answer would be, what bellhousing pattern is it?
SBC, or B.O.P.?

It would be the first Pontiac powered Beaumont I've ever seen. Or maybe someone was being cheeky and threw the decals on. Like I did with my Pontiac floormats.

:D

To reiterate...
There should be a *STICKY* made that just reads A BEAUMONT IS NOT A PONTIAC!!! :yes:

Here are some pictures of Canadian Pontiac engines.

My '66 has a sticker very similar to the Pontiac 283 one - except it doesn't have Pontiac on it - anywhere. Above the "283" it says Econoflame, and below the "283" it says 195 HP.

The Canadian Poncho was unique to Canada. Other then for the Fire Bird Canadians took Pride in their ASTRO Decaled Chevy Engine PMD's; for instance, a 68 Stratro Chief with a 427/TH400/12 Bolt 3.31 Posi Ride to the envy of Americans who couldn't even get a TH400 on their Chevy Mills ;o)

To answer the Question as to whether these Cars where Pontiac's, YES and NO, depending on which side of the 49 Parallel you Resided ;o)

It was indeed a sad day, in 71, when Canadians open the hood of their Poncho's and saw a Turbo-Jet Decal.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30377&d=1273155130

Isn't that Sweet: Reminds me of a story I can tell. I was 16 and had my Grandmother's 58 Pathfinder for the night so I put $3 in and filled the tank and decided to drive all night to the next town some 150 miles away. En-route a brand new 65 318 Polaris was tailing me. There is an 11 mile straight stretch of HWY where I decided to put the throttle to the floor to see if the Polaris could keep up. In spite of his valiant attempt his head lights dissipated in the review mirror. I pulled into a gas station at my destination and the Polaris pulled in shortly after. The driver got out and walked over to me and said man you must have a 409 in that Poncho. I opened the hood to reveal a 300 Straight 6 with 3 on the tree. The owner of the Polaris went over to his NEW Car, climbed up on the hood then proceeded to jump up and down uttering foul language.

Call them whatever you like. I've been enjoying mine with it's 327 two speed PG for close to 30 years, and couldn't care less (as long as I can find parts)!