I guess I am going the POR 15 route on a sandblasted frame. I will use the extra money to buy some tubular control arms. My Question is: after using POR 15 - do I need to topcoat? POR15 sell chassis black. I have used Eastwood Chassis paint before with good results - but it was sprayed on a fresh sandblasted frame. Has anybody done Eastwood CP over POR15?

Why use POR15 when primer and paint will do a perfectly fine and acceptable job? POR 15 is junk IMO. Primer and a quart of of Chassis Black paint will suffice.

yes it needs a topcoat I used chassis black from por15

I use DP-90 and top coat it with the POR Chassis black sometimes. I like the sheen of it, real nice. The regular POR products I dont use at all.

I used the POR-15 on my frame, I had it blasted, and the sand blasting company sprayed the frame with a red oxide primer, and I used the POR-15 over the primer, and then used the UV POR top coat. I know it sounds like over kill, but I don't think that the frame will ever have rust issues. After assembly of the frame and the body, I used rattle can Chassis black to touch up areas of the frame that had a few minor sratches and knicks that happened during the assembly of the car.

I topcoated my 66 frame and have no complaints. Although I should clarify, I didnt have the body off, just the front clip and did the front visible area of the frame. But it was stripped down bare. Still looks as nice as I applied it 10 years ago.

I here this all the time and can't figure out why people do it. Why would you take the time to clean and sandblast a frame and then coat it with a garbage product like POR15. This product main design is to applied directly onto rust and some how seal it in and it never rears its ugly head again (BS). If you have sand blasted your frame do yourself a favor and put a good coating of epoxy primer on it and topcoat it with a sound paint product of your choice. This will out last the garbage POR15 and look way better when done.Por15 is a product that is aimed at the guy who does not have the means to sand blast the metal and prepare it properly. I see this stuff used in application were they apply it over a primer or sand blasted surface and it does'nt make any sense.

I here this all the time and can't figure out why people do it. Why would you take the time to clean and sandblast a frame and then coat it with a garbage product like POR15. This product main design is to applied directly onto rust and some how seal it in and it never rears its ugly head again (BS). If you have sand blasted your frame do yourself a favor and put a good coating of epoxy primer on it and topcoat it with a sound paint product of your choice. This will out last the garbage POR15 and look way better when done.Por15 is a product that is aimed at the guy who does not have the means to sand blast the metal and prepare it properly. I see this stuff used in application were they apply it over a primer or sand blasted surface and it does'nt make any sense.

OK, I hear your complaints. If I was to switch to an epoxy primer and topcoat what are your recommendations? What have you used and how should I apply them. I am asking here for recommendations rather than how terribble a product is.

see my reply.

What is DP 90, is there any special place to buy and what is the technique for application - anything special? Can I use my cheapie primer gun?

You can get the DP 90 from any PPG Jobber. Check out PPG's website to find the one nearest you.....

Here is the product...

https://buyat.ppg.com/refinishProductCatalog/ViewProduct.aspx?ProductID=c98c3f28-89c5-467d-9983-e87c240f4c09

Here is how to find a jobber....

https://corporateportal.ppg.com/NA/Refinish/PPGRefinish/9-0-Locator/EN

After the DP 90 is applied, pick the top coat of your choice. you can use an enamel, or the Eastwood Chassis black.

I just use dp-90LF which can get from your local ppg jobber. I like the Eastwood underhood black, easy to touch-up and wears well. These materials will far outlast the por15 mess and look much much better. Sorry about the bash on POR15 but I think that stuff is nothing but snake oil in a can.

I just use dp-90LF which can get from your local ppg jobber. I like the Eastwood underhood black, easy to touch-up and wears well. These materials will far outlast the por15 mess and look much much better. Sorry about the bash on POR15 but I think that stuff is nothing but snake oil in a can.

Just glad someone else thinks the same of it that I do.

I just use dp-90LF which can get from your local ppg jobber. I like the Eastwood underhood black, easy to touch-up and wears well. These materials will far outlast the por15 mess and look much much better. Sorry about the bash on POR15 but I think that stuff is nothing but snake oil in a can.

Sorry that my first post is to question a possible long time member, but Just curious as to why you feel so strongly about POR15. Did something go bad for you with it? Do you have any personal experience with POR15? Or is this just strictly your personal opinion? I don't see anything stating why you feel the way you do. Maybe I just plain missed it.

You can chemically alter the rust process! If it is altered and sealed [properly], the process is arrested and metal protected.

I have had experience with it on a very old chassis years ago and it is a strong durable surface, very comparable to epoxy, and it looks as good as the day I brushed it on and has adhered better than I ever thought it would. It is like using good ole oil based paint, it lays down like glass. It is a good product. It adheres to the "rough" surface, not the rust itself. You don't just apply it over a bunch of rust without proper prep. If it is not in direct sunlight, it does not need a topcoat. I wouldn't put it on a panel I see everyday, but for the bottom of my car or the frame, I would use it again in a heart beat.

I don't know about you, but my sand blaster doesn't get my '67 chevelle frame ready for paint without at least a few days work, a lot of sand and quite a mess. It will however get it prepped for POR15 in less than a day.

Just my personal opinion ........ with experience to back it up.

Rob

I personally don't agree with painting over rust. Why would you want to do that when you can have a frame blasted clean for about $200? Maybe it's only the few of us, but I simply don't get the logic behind painting over corrosion. To use an analogy, it's like sweeping dirt under the carpet. It doesn't go away, just being hidden.

You can't paint over rust. The only way to stop rust is to remove it period. This products claims to fame is that it uses the rust to adhere to your part and seal it away. I have scene this stuff used in both spray and brush applications and it looks very waxy and thick. I have been on this site and read about people using it on sandblasted surfaces and they have peeling problem. I think this is because once you blast the metal and clean it, the POR has no way to adhere to the surface of the metal, it does not have an etching abilty and usually fails. I personally don't believe in any product that is designed to be applied over rust. The below statement is why POR15 is popular, because its a quick, cheap, and easy fix. Unlike blasting and using a sound product which is doing the job correctly but more work, time, and money.

"I don't know about you, but my sand blaster doesn't get my '67 chevelle frame ready for paint without at least a few days work, a lot of sand and quite a mess. It will however get it prepped for POR15 in less than a day"

I personally don't agree with painting over rust. Why would you want to do that when you can have a frame blasted clean for about $200? Maybe it's only the few of us, but I simply don't get the logic behind painting over corrosion. To use an analogy, it's like sweeping dirt under the carpet. It doesn't go away, just being hidden.

I am in no way trying to be disrespectful to anyone on this forum. I struggled with clicking on the "submit reply" button, that being my first post and all. I did however want to comment on a product I have experience with.

Do you agree that rust is simple science? The oxidation of metal? If you agree with that, then you have to agree that the rust process can be chemically halted, correct? [still science]. And if sealed the metal is then protected [and of course there has to be metal left for this to be true]. In your post above, you say "....painting over rust" but I guess my train of thought when using POR15 wasn't "painting", it was halting the rust process, sealing the metal and the end result is a good looking finish. We all know you can't paint over rust, the paint will not adhere and the rust will sometimes run underneath the paint. POR15 isn't paint.

I disagree with the analogy above because your analogy infers that the "problem" wasn't taken care of. My opinion is that the "problem" is taken care of.

The directions for POR15 don't tell you to just paint it over all the rust, it does show some [somtimes significant] prep work, like getting all loose particles of rust and debris off surface. The product adheres to the rough surfaces, arrests the rust process and seals the metal [with proper prep].

Rob

You can't paint over rust. The only way to stop rust is to remove it period. This products claims to fame is that it uses the rust to adhere to your part and seal it away. I have scene this stuff used in both spray and brush applications and it looks very waxy and thick. I have been on this site and read about people using it on sandblasted surfaces and they have peeling problem. I think this is because once you blast the metal and clean it, the POR has no way to adhere to the surface of the metal, it does not have an etching abilty and usually fails. I personally don't believe in any product that is designed to be applied over rust.

That would qualify as personal experience! I didn't have those problems and it is going on 4 years now since I used it. I did however follow the directions to a "T" and bought the degreaser [cleaner] and the etching agent. The one thing I did have a problem with is when I spilled some brake fluid on my POR15'ed pan and let it sit for days. That is the only thing i saw that has effected it, yet.

I will shut up now. Thanks for sharing the experience.

Rob

I am in no way trying to be disrespectful to anyone on this forum. I struggled with clicking on the "submit reply" button, that being my first post and all. I did however want to comment on a product I have experience with.

Do you agree that rust is simple science? The oxidation of metal? If you agree with that, then you have to agree that the rust process can be chemically halted, correct? [still science]. And if sealed the metal is then protected [and of course there has to be metal left for this to be true]. In your post above, you say "....painting over rust" but I guess my train of thought when using POR15 wasn't "painting", it was halting the rust process, sealing the metal and the end result is a good looking finish. We all know you can't paint over rust, the paint will not adhere and the rust will sometimes run underneath the paint. POR15 isn't paint.

Rob

Not necessarily. Yes, rust it a chemical reaction amongst uncoated metal, moisture, and air. However, there are 2 sides.....literally. One side you see, the other side you do not. That would be the side still in contact with the underlying metal. Can't coat that can you?What's to stop it from continuing to react with the metal...answer...nothing. Show me a sample of a piece of metal that has been coated for let's say 5 years. Chip it away and see what lies beneath. I am willing to bet dollars to donuts it will be rust.

I had a winter beater that I applied this stuff on a few years ago (read the instruction to a "T"). Used the degreaser, and the etch and applied it on the old cars rusty spots. Within one year of a Michigan winter and the POR crap failed . I could peel the POR back off of the surface of the metal and guess what was under the POR......RUST.

What's to stop it from continuing to react with the metal...answer...nothing
You mentioned it above. Take away air and moisture [it is actually oxygen coming into long term contact with metal which causes rust] and the chemical reaction [oxidation] ceases.

I don't question weather rust can be arrested, because it is proven science. My only question is weather the product POR15 adheres and seals. By simple science, if it adheres and seals, then rust is arrested. In my experience [so far], it definitely adheres.

I would never tell someone to apply this stuff onto a flaky mess of rust. At that point you have to question the structural strength. But if you remove the loose stuff and still have a strong structure, I say go for it.

I had a winter beater that I applied this stuff on a few years ago (read the instruction to a "T"). Used the degreaser, and the etch and applied it on the old cars rusty spots. Within one year of a Michigan winter and the POR crap failed . I could peel the POR back off of the surface of the metal and guess what was under the POR......RUST.

That would make me feel exactly the same way you do about the product! When I get back home from AZ [spring training], I will put the bug up on jack stands and look for the same stuff.

gulfcoastspeedncustom, I apologize for hijacking your thread.

Rob

I still disagree with you. Has there been anything chemically proven that this crap stops and eliminates rust....I doubt there is. Also, once the chemical reaction has began, it will continue one way or another unless it's neutrilized and the only way to neutrilize rust is to blast it away and start with clean metal.

I still disagree with you. Has there been anything chemically proven that this crap stops and eliminates rust....I doubt there is. Also, once the chemical reaction has began, it will continue one way or another unless it's neutrilized and the only way to neutrilize rust is to blast it away and start with clean metal.

I have no way of proving to you that POR15 stops the rust. No way whatsoever. But the comment "Also, once the chemical reaction has began, it will continue one way or another unless it's neutrilized and the only way to neutrilize rust is to blast it away and start with clean metal" is incorrect. The only way to neutralize rust, is to take away oxygen from the metal. By definition, rust is the result of oxygen combining with the metal at an atomic level. So, once again, no oxygen, no oxidation [rust]. That is proof I can find.

I guess you either believe science or you don't.

Rob

Dan,

I would have my frame dipped in a galvanized solution. I would have it sandblasted then taken to the company and have them dip it. There is a company in Tampa that does it, www.indgalv.net/igTampa.asp (http://www.indgalv.net/igTampa.asp) Just don't let them oil quench it as it will be a witch to clean off and paint. As for paint, I would use Eastwoods as it will look good and not cost an arm and leg:D. Do a search on these forums for galvanized and look at the results. Much better protection and cheaper to boot. Especially since there is one down the road from you. That is what I am going to do to my frame when I get to that point.

The age old debate.

Those that believe the only way to stop rust, iron oxides, is to completely remove it and seal the metal.

Those that believe rust requires a combination of water, H2O, and oxygen, O2, removing either or both stops further oxidation.

Bottom line, you're still applying SOMETHING over rust. Not the CORRECT way to repair it.

it seams to me that once the metal is sandblasted to bare metal and coated with ANYTHING to keep out the moisture(epoxy or por) it will protect the metal from rusting...im in Michigan and sandblasted my snowmobile trailer and cleaned with metalready then painted with por and didnt topcoat with anything and still no rust coming thru...its been 3 years...blasted my winter trucks rockers and painted with por last fall...no rust...i guess its just personal preferance...i dont have any probs with the stuff from personal experience ill use it again... just my .02....

My corvette frame, I sandblasted it clean, etched it with the POR 15 Metal Ready and applied the POR 15.
The durability of their product appears to be far superior to any normal primer and paint.
Top coating is not necessary, but I may spray a coat on it just for looks, since the POR 15 is quite shiny.
Spent $150 between sand for blasting and the POR 15, vs the $1200 I spent on powdercoating my Chevelle frame.

Dan,

I would have my frame dipped in a galvanized solution. I would have it sandblasted then taken to the company and have them dip it. There is a company in Tampa that does it, www.indgalv.net/igTampa.asp (http://www.indgalv.net/igTampa.asp) Just don't let them oil quench it as it will be a witch to clean off and paint. As for paint, I would use Eastwoods as it will look good and not cost an arm and leg:D. Do a search on these forums for galvanized and look at the results. Much better protection and cheaper to boot. Especially since there is one down the road from you. That is what I am going to do to my frame when I get to that point.

Thanks for the link, I contacted them today for some info and they claim they do not coat for individuals - only businesses. I guess the economy must be pretty good for the glav. business. I dont think it will be long before anybody turns down business...

To the original poster..I did exactly what you are proposing on my 70conv.

My frame was chem stripped, then I coated with POR15. Besides being a PIA product (leftover paint doesn't last long as it must be air tight and if you get it on anything, it takes weeks to come off). It does go on nicely with a paint brush. Also did not need a top coat because it's not exposed to sunlight. However, if you don't like the luster, then topcoat it.

BUT, I asked after I was done why I bothered to chem strip it when the feature of POR is to go over rust. What I should have done was just pressure wash and get the grease all removed, let it get some good surface rust, then POR it.

You've already got the frame stripped, so get a good primer (I personally think there are equal products to PPG and Dupont and they are 1/2 the $$). and be done with it. You can top coat it if you want to for more durability. DP90 is now DPLF and is also a pain in the ass to use; many special direction for it... Sorry PPGr's but PPG just doesn't have it over the other companies anymore. Try SEM or other?

If I do this again, I will NOT use POR, but sandblast the frame myself and prime...

I hope this helps as you are about to do what I did; and I wish I hadn't...

Here's the link to my restoration page where you can see some pictures of my frame; yes with POR. www.fquick.com/ragtop396

Thanks - Duff

Why would you take the time to clean and sandblast a frame and then coat it with...POR15?



Well, that's a real easy question to answer Mr. 70SS.
You see, POR 15 is as tough as nails and will outlast and outperform regular paint...even the enamel that you're so fond of.

So, after a frame has been cleaned and sandblasted, a lot of guys want to put something on it that is more durable than just paint...something that will protect it more than just paint.

I know a guy who even painted his headers with POR 15. That was about four years ago, and there's still no rust on them.
I know another guy who put POR 15 on a metal part of his boat (back where the engine is). That part is below the water line when the boat is in the water, and the boat is used exclusively in salt water.
It's been a few years, and he still has no rust or corrosion on that part.

Plus, I've read many posts out here from guys who have used POR 15 and are very satisfied with the results.

You may have a mindset against POR 15 (for whatever reason) and you can complain about its usage as much as you like, but, the bottom line is, I've heard and seen many positive stories and opinions from guys who have actually used it and are very satisfied with it.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Regards,
-Greg

Nice write-up Greg... You nailed it!
POR-15 is a awesome product used as directed for many applications. I think many people don't read the directions or choose to ignore them (applied over paint).....then the problems they get are translated into a "junk product". I use it all the time on bare metal or areas where it is not possible to completely remove surface rust.
Epoxy primer is a awesome product used as directed for many applications. I use it on sheet metal that I am able to COMPLETELY remove any signs of rust and will eventually get painted as they are visible.
There are reasons to use both, but to stand fast and say POR-15 is junk is absurd, as there are many, many examples of people who have had great luck with POR-15.

I have only used the POR15 for inner kick panel/firewall were any water or leaves can sit and rust. I have also used it on the inside of the fender were it mounts to the body on the bottom. I do this to prevent rust and rot. This product does not fair well when the sun can get to it. They tell you this, but most ignore it. It's a good epoxy coating, for protection and prevention of rust and chips, you just have to follow the directions. The only thing I recommend putting on rust is a sand or soda blaster.