These lifters cam out of my friends 396. It was a "almost" fresh rebuild where he basically replaced "almost" everything with new parts. It didn't replace the cam (against better judgement), but did put new "house brand" lifters. This is what we found last night while trying to diagnose a noisey, chattering valve train. I have NEVER seen lifters this bad. This is a pic of the three worst ones. (Sorry for the bad picture quality, all I had was my phone). The cam is a boat anchor now, and the lifters will make good sinkers.

I don't think the cam/lifters were the problem. I think the shop that assembeled the heads put the retainers in up side down. (sorry I don't have a pic right now). You know how one side of the retainer is flat and the other side is raised, the raised side is facing up. I think the raised side should be facing down into the spring. I am no expert on heads, but it just doesn't look right. He had a 3 angle valve job done, and said he had to grind down the top of the valve stems, they are now flat with the top (or bottom) of the retainers/keepers. I think the rocker arms were not sitting on the valves themselves, and actually were pushing down on the entire valve/spring assy due to the height being too high. Hard to explain here. I will try to get some pics of the heads today.

I don't really want to name the lifter or cam brand, as I don't think they are the problem, although they are shot. They are just the end result. Improper head assy by the shop. If you all think it is important I will. Just don't want to cast blame if it is not justified.

Can you actually install the retainers up side down? I guess anything is possible. Hopefully we will know more today when we take the heads back to the shop. By the way the retainers are stock.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Nolowrider/Picture006-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Nolowrider/Picture009.jpg

Post some pics of the installed retainers, Steve.

I've seen A LOT of dumb stuff over the last 40+ years, but I've NEVER seen a retainer installed upside down.

I don't think you could even get the split locks INTO an upside-down retainer.

I can't say for sure, though, because I've never tried!:D


Randy

What you might be seeing at the retainer are recessed retainers for lash caps - just guessing.

lack of zinc in today's oil would cause a flat tappet cam to wear unevenly...thought there was a couple threads on that issue...

What year 396 block do you have. If it is 65-66, it requires the grooved rear cam bearing and grooved rear journal on the camshaft to get proper lube to the lifters. On my original 66 396, I had the correct parts installed, and it ran great for awhile(30 minutes), but the valvetrain started getting noiser and noiser. I had open exhaust on it, so initially, I couldn't hear the valvetrain. Also, I had an oil pressure guage under the hood temperarilly installed directly into my oil pressure port, and I had 60lbs of oil pressure. But after awhile, the engine started missing and flooding real bad, 1st thought it was the carb acting up. I pull the spark plugs and half of them were gas fouled. So installed another set, same thing. Well I pulled the valvecovers, and found all kinds of slop in the rockers. Heck I could actually remove half of the rockers off of the pushrods with out loosening them. After removing the valvecovers, I decided to start the engine to see how much oil I was getting in the top end, hardly any!! I was lost and didn't know for sure what to do, especially knowing that I had all my parts matched correctly. So I started calling some of my old school mechanic friends, and none of them had any idea for sure what to check. But one that I had known for quite some time and was Chevy pro, suggested to check my distributor, that it may be cutting my oil supply off to my lifters, I said What!! It's a stock distributor with a Pertronix electronic setup in it, and I have installed 100's of chevy distributors, and never heard of the distributor cutting off the oil supply to the valvetrain. Well the distributor originally came out of a 67 283 engine. Which shouldn't matter, but on the lower end of it, just above the gear, there are two machined areas with a space in between them, which allows oil to flow around this space and lube the lifter gallery's. Well upon closer inspection, there was and area on one of the lands that made it wider. Well this area was covering the lifter gallery area and not allowing enough oil to get to the lifters. I took the distributer, and remachined this area, and I restarted the engine, and had plenty of oil getting to the valvetrain then. Keep in mind I do not consider myself an amateur on Chevy engines or distributor, I have been working on them for over 30 years, and have never ran into this before. I had the vacuum advance pointing the same direction of all chevy distributors that I have ever installed. Well, by the time I figured this out, it was too late, and my lifters looked just like what you are showing. And all the metal pretty much destroyed the new Sealed Power forged pistons, and was going to require the engine to be rebored to .60, and the crank was going to have to be polished. I got mad, and sold it, and ordered myself a brand new GM 454HO crate engine. Which ended up only costing me about $300 more than what I had in the 396. I don't know if this is your problem, but is important to find out.

yeah wow take some cleener pics of the lifters, and cam and post the pics of the heads. if the guy did install them upside down? the locks would look messed up.

I don't think the cam/lifters were the problem. I think the shop that assembeled the heads put the retainers in up side down. (sorry I don't have a pic right now). You know how one side of the retainer is flat and the other side is raised, the raised side is facing up. I think the raised side should be facing down into the spring. I am no expert on heads, but it just doesn't look right. He had a 3 angle valve job done, and said he had to grind down the top of the valve stems, they are now flat with the top (or bottom) of the retainers/keepers. I think the rocker arms were not sitting on the valves themselves, and actually were pushing down on the entire valve/spring assy due to the height being too high. Hard to explain here. I will try to get some pics of the heads today.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Nolowrider/Picture006-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Nolowrider/Picture009.jpg


I had some 781 heads in the shop a couple months ago that someone used 7 deg. split locks with 10 deg. retainers.

The tips of the valves were level with the top of the retainers, and everything was beat to hell.

Maybe that's what the "machine shop" that built the heads did?:confused:


Randy

I feel your pain brother.
http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww312/69Chevelle454/100_0112.jpg
http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww312/69Chevelle454/100_0117.jpg
http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww312/69Chevelle454/100_0118.jpg
http://i731.photobucket.com/albums/ww312/69Chevelle454/100_0119.jpg

This is what happens when a machine shop doesnt know how to break in a cam and tighten down the valve train much to tightly.........

I guess I'm missing something here. You say "This is what happens when a machine shop doesnt know how to break in a cam and tighten down the valve train much to tightly"

Did the 'machine shop' install the engine and do the initial startup?

WELL UNFOTUNATELY IT LOOKS LIKE IT TIME TO POST THIS AGAIN WHICH IS SOMETHING I PUT TOGETHER TO HELP THE FLAT TAPPET CAM CROWD.

FEEL FREE TO ADD ANYTHING I MAY HAVE MISSED .

SCOTT

================================

POSSIBLE REASONS WHY FLAT TAPPET CAM'S CAN GO BAD.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* ISSUES WITH BLOCK & OR LIFTER BORE ANGLE

* USING NEW LIFTERS ON A USED CAM OR USED LIFTERS ON NEW CAM WHICH HAS AT BEST A 50/50 CHANCE OF WORKING OUT OK

* ACCIDENTIALLY INSTALLED A DEFECTIVE CAM THAT HAD LOBES & OR LIFTERS WITH SCRATCHES/DINGS/NICKS/CHIPS/ETC

* DIDNT PROPERLY CLEAN BLOCK/HEADS/ETC POST MACHINE WORK AND METAL DEBRIES GOT INTO OIL SYSTEM

* ACIDENTIALLY DAMAGED SCRTCHED/NICKED/DINGED/CHIPPED CAM LOBES & OR LIFTERS WHEN INSTALLING.

* IMPROPERLY LUBED THE CAM/LIFTERS ON INSTALL

* USED COMP CAMS THIN WATERY RED CAM ASSEMBLY LUBE THEN LET MOTOR SIT TOO LONG PRIOR TO FIRIUP/CAM BREAKIN AND THE RED PRE-LUBE RAN/DRAINED OFF THE CAM/LIFTER PRIOR TO FIREUP.

* DIDNT USE CRANES GREY MOLY PASTE WHICH IS A GREAT ASSEMBLY LUBE THAT STAYS PUT/DOESN'T DRAIN OFF UNTILL THE MOTOR IS FIRED UP.

* DIDNT DO STATIC VAVLE ADJ "PRIOR TO INTAKE INSTALL" SO THE MOLY CAM ASSEMBLY LUBE THATS PARTIALLY SMEARED/FORCED OUT FROM INBETWEEN THE LIFTERS/LOBES COULD BE RE-APPLIED TO THE LOBES THAT ARE ACCESSABLE THRU THE BLOCK POST VALVE ADJ. YOU CAN USE A POPCILE STICK TO DO THIS AND CAN STILL ACCESS MANY OF THE LOBES

* NO ENGINE PRELUBE DONE TO PRESURIZE OILING SYSTEM PRIOR TO FIREUP.

* ENGINE PRELUBE NOT DONE PROPERLY WITH TOOL THAT CLOSES OFF THE LIFTER OIL PASSAGE/S TO PROPERLY PRESURIZE THE COMPLETE OILING SYSTEM PRIOR TO FIREUP.

* DIDNT USE PROPER OIL & OR OIL ADDITIVES LIKE FOR EX CHEVRONS DELO 15W-40 & GM'S OR CRANES SUPERLUBE ENGINE BREAKIN CONCENTRATE WITH PROPER ZDDP LVL'S FOR THE 25-30 MINUTE & APPROX 2,200-2,500 RPM CAM/LIFTER BREAKIN.

(NOTE:DONT USE COMPS NEWER OIL ADDITIVE FOR CAM/LIFTER BREAKIN,IT SHOWED LOW ZINC LVL WHEN I HAD IT TESTED)

* DIDNT HAVE TIMING SET PROPERLY FOR INSTANT MOTOR FIREUP CAUSING EXCESSIVE CRANKING ON STARTER WIPING OFF MOST OFTHE CAM /LIFTER LUBE PRIOR TO STARTUP.

* POST FIREUP DIDT RUN ENOUGH TIMING WITH PERF CAM RESULINT IN THE MOTOR RUNNING CONSIDERABLY HOTTER THEN IT NORMALLY WOULD OVERHEATING THE OIL & MOTOR WHICH ISN'T GOOD.

* DIDNT BREAKIN A CAM ON OUTTER SPRINGS ONLY WHEN ADVISED TO DO SO BY THE CAM MFG WITH A HOT CAM RUNNING HI SPRING RATES.

* DIDNT RUN AN OIL WITH ENOUGH ZDDP POST CAM/LIFTER BREAKIN

* DON'T DO FREQUENT OIL/FILTER CHANGES TO KEEP CONTAM IN OIL TO A MINIMUM FOR LESS FRICTION INBETWEEN LOBE/LIFTERS THAT CAN BE INCREASE WITH SMALL CONTAM/PARTICULATES THAT ARE IN THE OIL IF NOT CHANGED FREQUENTLY.

* MOTOR SEE'S EXCESSIVE IDLING IN HI TRAFFIC SITUATIONS WITH IDLE SPEED SET VERY OW (ESP WITH AUTO TRANS) WHERE THERE ISN'T MUCH OIL THROWN OFF THE CRANK TO AID IN CAM/LIFTER OILING AND ALSO THAT THE OIL PRESSURE IS CONSIDERABLY LOWER WHEN THE MOTOR IS AT A LOW HOT IDLE RPM TOO.

* POOR QUALITY CAM CORE THAT MAYBE WASN'T PROPERLY HARDENED BUT THATS RARE AND LESS LIKELY TO BE THE CAUSE FOR A BAD FLAT TAPPET CAM.

* THIS STATEMENT DIRECTLY BELOW FROM A FELLOW TC'R IS ALSO VERY GOOD ADVICE TOO :

Exactly !!! and for those who plug the bypass but continue to use a street filter your not fully protected ......plug the bypass and run a no bypass filter the Wix 51061r and plugged bypass saved my motor !!!

UPDATE ON (5) 1061R OIL FILTER MENTIONED ABOVE
We only use the 1061 gold filter as the 1061R has a larger Micron rating which I don't like!!

NOTE:ONE THING I WOULD ADVISE HERE FOR CAM LIFTER BREAKIN TO BE VERY WATCHFULL OF OIL PRESSURE WHEN RUNNING THE BLOCKED BYPASS AND FILTER WITH NO BYPASS . THAT'S BECAUSE ONCE IN A WHILE THE FILER CAN BECOME PARTIALLY OR ALMOST FULLY BLOCKED/CLOGGED WITH THE MOLY CAM ASSEMBLY LUBE CONSIDERABLY LOWERING OIL PRESSURE SO KEEP THAT IN MIND WHEN RUNNING THIS SETUP.

ALSO,YOU SHOULD AVOID HI RPM UNTIL THE MOTOR/OIL WARMS UP TO NORMAL OPERTAING TEMP WITH A BLOCKED BYPASS TO AVOID COLLAPSING/DISTORTING THE OIL FILTER WHEN OIL IS COLD AND OIL PRESSURE IS THE HIGHEST ESP WITH STD PERF OIL FILTER.

* LASTLY,I WOULD ALSO RUN A FILTER MAG ESP FOR CAM/LIFTER BREAKIN,ITS AN EXTREEMLY POWERFUL MAGNET,CANT HURT/CHECK OUT THE FILTER MAG SITE FOR DETAILS, YES ITS PRICEY AT $50 + BUT TO BETTER PROTECT YOU NEW 3K/4K/5K/+ 4 INVESTEMT EPS WITH FLATTAPPET CAM IT'S WELL WORHT IT TO ME.

NOW ALL THE ABOVE ITEMS I LISTED ARE NOT ALL OF THE THINGS THAT CAN EITHER 1 OR 2 BY THEMSELVES OR CAN COLLECTIVELY CAUSE A FLAT TAPPET CAM TO GO BAD DURRING BREAKIN/RIGHT AFTER BREAKIN BUT THEY ARE THE MAIN ITEMS I CAN THINK OF.

Short of installing a new cam/lifters with mfg damage on them causing the cam to fail in short order or soon after breakin a flat tappet can can go bad at any time due to a multitude of reasons.

Over the past 37+ yrs i have been working on these sbc/bbc/and other motors in general i have seen flat tappet cams go bad durring breakin/right after breakin/in new cars in 1k-2k miles/30k miles/50k/90k/130k miles,there is no one or 2 good answers to WHEN & OR IN HOW MANY MILES WILL /CAN A FLAT TAPPET CAM & LIFTERS GO BAD AND WHY,THERE ARE WAY TOO MANY VARIBLES IN THAT MIX FOR AN ACCURATE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION I AM OFTEN ASKED.

Scott

2/17/09 V6 S.WHEATON

----------------------------------------------------------------------

THIS TOO.

SCOTT

================================

HERE IS A LIST OF:

A) OIL ADDITIVES BEST SUITED FOR FLAT TAPPET CAM & LIFTER BREAKIN

B) WHERE TO BUY THE BREAKIN ADDITIVES ALONG WITH PT#'S

C) CONVENTIONAL OILS CURRENTLY ON THE MARKET (SOME NEW ) WITH GOOD ZDDP LVLS FOR FLAT TAPPET CAM BREAKIN & ONGOING PROTECTION POST BREAKIN & WHERE TO BUY THEM.

D) OIL ADDITIVES WITH MOSTLY ZDDP THAT'S BEST SUTED FOR ONGOING PROTECTION POST CAM & LIFTER BREAKIN & WHERE TO BUY THEM

NOTE: IN GENERAL LOOK FOR A MINIMUM 1200PPM -1400PPM ZDDP/ZINC & PHOSPHORUS FOR FLAT TAPPET CAM PROTECTION ,
STOCK TO MILD PERF CAM'S ARE OK ON THE LOWER END LIKE APPROX 1200PPM -1300PPM AND HOTTER PERF CAMS WITH HIGHER SPRING RATES & MORE AGRESSIVE LOBE DESIGNS ARE ON THE UPPER END LIKE 1350PPM - 1400PPM . EVEN A LITTLE MORE ZDDP LIKE 1450-1600+ZDDP WOULD NOT HURT FOR A REAL HOT CAM EITHER. A FEW PPM ZDDP EITHER WAY/ UP OR DOWN IS NOT AN ISSUE,JUST STAY FARILY CLOSE/WITHIN REASON TO THESE REC AND YOU SHOULD BE OK.

================================================== ================================================== ============
A) OIL ADDITIVES FOR FLAT TAPPET CAM & LIFTER BREAKIN :

USE CRANES GREY MOLY ASSEMBLY LUBE (OR EQUIVILANT) ON CAM LOBES & LIFTERS

GM EOS & CRANES SUPERLUBE ENGINE BREAKIN CONCENTRATE ARE BOTH GREAT FOR FLAT TAPPET CAM/LIFTER BREAKIN & ALSO SHOWED GOOD/HIGH ZDDP LVLS. (BOTH SHOWED APPROX 5,500-6,000PPM ZDDP WHEN TESTED)

NEW ON THE MARKET IS THE " LUCAS ENGINE BREAKIN OIL ADDITIVE TB ZINC PLUS " (5KPPM ZINC W-4.5 QTS OIL PER LUCAS/MFG) . BUT DON'T MISTAKE THE "LUCAS OIL STABILIZER" FOR THE NEW FLAT TAPPET CAM BREAKIN ADDITIVE WHICH IT'S NOT,THERE IS NO ZDDP IN THE LUCAS OIL STABILIZER AT ALL SO I WOULD NOT REC IT FOR FLAT TAPPET CAM BREAKIN AND OR FOR POST CAM BREAKIN PROTECTION EITHER .

I USE CHEVRON'S DELO 15W-40 WITH GM EOS OR THE CRANE LUBE FOR ALL MY FLAT TAPPET CAM BREAKINS. THEY WORK GREAT AND ARE APPROX 3-4X CHEAPER THEN THE JOE GIBS OR BRAD BENN BREAKIN & STD OILS (WHICH ARE GOOD HIGH QUALITY OILS) FOR POST BREAKIN.

================================================== ================================================== =============

B) Listed below are the PT#'s and where to buy GM EOS/CRANE'S SUPERLUBE/LUCAS BREAKIN ADDITIVE TB ZINC PLUS.

GM EOS,is the cheapest from GMPARTSDIRECT online @ approx $12.00 pint + S&H =approx $16.00 It can also be found in Jeg's listed as a cam prelube in catalog and at a gm dealer at the highest cost ($20+) unless you know somebody that can get you the dealer/wholesale price.

GM EOS PART # is - 88862586

Cranes Super Moly Assembly Lube for cam lobes & lifters is pt# 99002-1 in summit.

Also,Cranes superlube engiine breakin concentrate is just as good or better then GM EOS and can be ordered from Summit with crane's moly paste assembly lube.

In Summit Crane's superlube engine breakin concentrate oil additive is pt # - CRN-99003-1 & the Crane grey moly paste assembly lube is pt # CRN-99002-1

LUCAS PT# 10063
IT'S CALLED: ENGINE BREAK-IN OIL ADDITIVE TB ZINC PLUS
ACCORDING TO LUCAS 16OZ BOTTLE IN 4.5QTS OIL = APPROX 5,000PPM ZINC
HERES THE LINK TO THE MFG SPECS FOR THRE NEW LUCAS OIL ADDITIVE:
http://static.summitracing.com/globa...tve_tbzinc.pdf
HERES THE SUMMIT PT# TO BUY THE LUCAS ADDITIVE : LUC-10063-1

================================================== ================================================== =================

C) HERE ARE MOSTLY CONVENTIONAL OILS(SOME NEW ON MARKET) WITH GOOD ZDDP LVLS FOR FLAT TAPPET CAM PROTECTION.

1200-1400PPM ZDDP IS THE REC MINIMUM REQUIRED FOR PERFORMANCE FLAT TAPPET CAM PROTECTION AND CLOSER TO 1400PPM AND EVEN LITTLE MORE IS BEST FOR REAL HOT FLAT TAPPET CAMS RUNNING HI SPRING RATES:

CHEVRON'S DELO 15W-40 (NEW CJ VERSION1300PPM/OLD CI -1500PPM AS TESTED AND AS PER MFG TOO)/AVAIL IN MOST STORES
SHELLS' ROTELLA ST 30WT (APPROX 1250-1300PPM)/AVAIL IN MOST STORES
NOTE-SHELLS NEWER CJ 15W-40 OIL ONLY HAD APPROX 1050-1100PPM ZDDP WHEN TESTED SO ITS NG IMHO FOR PROTECTING A HIGH PERF FLAT TAPPET CAM)
MOTORHEAD'S 15W-40 (1400-1500PPM-PER MFG)/AVAIL ON THEIR SITE
CLASSIC CAR OIL'S 15W-40(1400-1500PPM-PER MFG) /AVAIL ON THEIR SITE
SPECTRO'S NEW 30WT/10W-40/20W-50 (1800PPM- PER MFG)/AVAIL ON THEIR SITE
PENZOILS 25W-50 GT RACING OIL(1400-1500PPM WHEN TESTED,MFG CLAIMS 1600PPM)/AVAIL SUMMIT & JEG'S
VALVOLINES VR1 & NSL(Not street Legal) RACING OILS (1200-1250PPM WHEN TESTED), (AS OF 12/08 MFG CLAIMS 1400ppm Zn & -1300ppm P)THE VR1 IS MEANT FOR FOR STREET WITH DETERGENT BUT THE NSL IS A RACE ONLY OIL WITH ALMOST NO DETRGENT REQUIRING VERY FREQUENT OIL CHANGES,THE VR1 IS AVAIL SOME STORES LIKE AUTOZONE/ADVANCED AUTO/-SUMMIT/ & JEG'S/ETC.
ROYAL PURPLE ENGINE BREAK-IN OIL(STATES HAS HIGH ZDDP LVL FOR FLAT TAPPET CAM/LIFTER BREAKIN/ZDDP LVL ?)/AVAIL ON THEIR SITE ,SUMMIT & JEGS

UPDATE;PASTED BELOW IS SOME INFO I GOT FROM ROYAL PURPLE CONCERNING WHAT RP-OILS THEY REC FOR FLAT TAPPET CAM'S

Scott,

All Royal Purple products - including our SAE Motor Oils, the RP MaxCycle Motorcycle Oils, or our ultra high performance XPR Motor Oils are very robustly formulated and will work fine in a flat tappet cams.

In the industry, oils that should be avoided with most older flat tappet cam engines are those meeting the newer API SM that are in the lighter viscosity grades such as multiweight SAE 0W20, SAE 5W20 or SAE 0W30, SAE 5W30, or SAE 10W30 as these oils were designed to work with the newer engines and prolong the exhaust emissions devices by reducing the amount of antiwear additives by about 25% from the older API SL levels.
RP has continued to make our SAE Motor Oils to the API SL Service Classification so we have been unaffected by this issue.

For your 396, we would recommend the RP 10W40 or RP 15W40 oils (both rated API CI-4 / SL) as these have a higher content than the RP 10W30 API SL.
For the ultimate in protection, you could use our RP XPR 10w40 which has an even more robust antiwear package.

All of the RP Motor oils contain our Synerlec additive technology which increases the load carrying ability 400% more than even high zinc content oils - yet Synerlec additive technology does not contain any zinc / phos content.

The RP Break In oil is a conventional oil (as most engine builders do not desire a synthetic oil for start up of new engines, and does not contain our Synerlec additive technology to make scuffing of ring sets easier and faster than our standard motor oils yet still contains a stout antiwear package to protect flat tappet cam followers during initial start up.
If you have a very aggressive spring rate (> 550 psi) with an aggressive cam and rocker ratio - many engine builders are removing the center springs to reduce the load during initial startup.

Cheers,

David
Tech Services manager
BSME

Royal Purple Inc
David Canitz
1 Royal Purple Lane
Porter, TX 77365
281.354.8600
281.354.7600 fax
713.725,7207 cell
dcanitz@royalpurple.com
============================================
D) These are ZDDP oil additives best suited for ongoing flat tappet cam/lifter protection post breakin that are currently on the market. They are also ok for cam & lifter breakin too with a good quality oil but i prefer GM'S EOS & CRANE'S SUPERLUBE ENGINE BREAKIN CONCENTRATE for flat tappet cam & lifter because they are proven products in that application that also have additional additives to aid in cam/lifter breakin :

ZDDPLUS (TESTED/APPROX 2K Zn & 1,600 P W-6 QTS OIL)/AVAIL ON EBAY & FROM EASTWOOD CATALOG
CAMSHIELD (TESTED/APPROX 88KPPM Zn & 75KPPM P PRIOR TO MIX WITH OIL)/AVAIL ON THEIR WEBSITE
MOTORHEADS HI "Z" (BOOSTS ZDDP APPROX 50% OR BY 500-600PPM PER MFG) /AVAIL EBAY AND THE WEBSITE

S.WHEATON V8 2/17/2009

Scott, wasn`t that a sticky? If not it should be. Very good info that can save people alot of trouble and money if they are aware of the problems people are having these days.

I guess I'm missing something here. You say "This is what happens when a machine shop doesnt know how to break in a cam and tighten down the valve train much to tightly"

Did the 'machine shop' install the engine and do the initial startup?

Yes they did, with out my permission.....

Yes that info is spread out thru the sticky but believe it or not many people mis the sticky's which i find when they ask me questions so i though maybe it would be good to repost some of the info since we have a bad cam.

But i have to say that there has been a marked reduction in bad flat tappet cams vs 2-3 yrs ago when i 1st started to post the oil issues/info along with the iproper lube/install/breakin info for flat tappet cam installs i put together too.

I have not seen near as many flat tappet cam fails but have seen more then enough roller cam or lifter failures which seem to be more with the hotter setups that have to run farily hi spring rates that were having issues at tmes.

Scott

Here is a few more pictures of the heads and cam. Sorry for the bad picture quality, my digi camera deceided it did want to work anymore (time for Best buy). You can see the retainers. I am just not sure they are installed right. Like I said I am not a head expert.

The engine is a 67 396. I do know (now) that he didn't use and assy lube on the cam/lifters and just regular 10w30 oil with no EOS. I want everyone to know that THIS WAS NO MY BUILD, I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ASSY.:noway: It seems that alot of bonehead things were done that contributed to the failure. I only helped drop it in the car.:yes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Nolowrider/Picture011.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Nolowrider/Picture014.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Nolowrider/Picture012.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v208/Nolowrider/Picture015.jpg

I think the shop that assembeled the heads put the retainers in up side down. (sorry I don't have a pic right now). You know how one side of the retainer is flat and the other side is raised, the raised side is facing up. I think the raised side should be facing down into the spring. I am no expert on heads, but it just doesn't look right. He had a 3 angle valve job done, and said he had to grind down the top of the valve stems, they are now flat with the top (or bottom) of the retainers/keepers. I think the rocker arms were not sitting on the valves themselves, and actually were pushing down on the entire valve/spring assy due to the height being too high. Hard to explain here. I will try to get some pics of the heads today.


l:)l:)l:)l:)l:) How in the heck Do you install retainers upside Down? thats Noobie machine work! no wonder the lifters are hacked up. the hight was all jacked up. ask the shop to fix it for free if not, call the BBB. so no one else has this happen to them.

l:)l:)l:)l:)l:) How in the heck Do you install retainers upside Down? thats Noobie machine work! no wonder the lifters are hacked up. the hight was all jacked up. ask the shop to fix it for free if not, call the BBB. so no one else has this happen to them.


Are they up side down? I am just not sure. I don't really want to pull my valve cover off to look. :noway:

funny looking deal there alright.

up front, new lifters on a used can are never a good idea.

what shop would build a new motor and not use moly on the cam during assembly? That ought to be malpractice. As to oil, zinc, and break in lube. I went thru the whole deal on my 396, built by a shop before I bought the car. After I got it I couldn't keep the lifters adjusted. I tore it down and found the problem, no oil groove. I paid attention to every last detail about cam break in and all of Scott's great info. You would be surprised how many of the guys I run with think the zinc factor is not really a big deal.

The locks are seated just funny looking retainers.

The locks are seated just funny looking retainers.

They look correct to me too just a strange design.

Those appear to be correct and correctly installed, even though they look "strange".

We get to work with so many vendors we've seen most of what's available to the general public!

Those are, I believe, Melling's part #VSR506S and as I stated, they are correct! Could be another vendor, but they do look like the "Mellings"?

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Some of these vendors have many more components that they wouldn't normally be "connected" with, Melling has had these for some years now, we have numerous sets from them in stock with varying part numbers!

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b28/GOSFAST/PES%20Engines/BBCRetainers-VSR506S.jpg