Hello All, I finally cranked my 454 in my 68 C-10 Truck. I had a couple of questions though.
1st I primed the oil pump/system before I started it, filled it with Valvoline Racing 10W-30 plus I added 1 bottle of the Comp Cams break in lube all over the valve train. Once we cranked the motor, I slowly but surely had about 70 lbs of oil pressure. We were able to keep the motor on for the specified 25 to 30 minutes for new cam break in, and in that time, the oil pressure slowly began to drop and once it hit 30-25 lbs of pressure, I stopped the engine. This was about 25 minutes or so into it. The motor also never moved the water temp needle. It was semi chilly outside, about 60 degrees. But I would have figured the temp sensor would have moved a little bit?

2nd It took us buying a new battery to actually crank the motor. The Sears Gold Die Hard I had was sitting for a while, and I got anxious, so I went and bought another brand new one, just for good measure. I still hooked up the battery charger to the new battery while starting, and this time it cranked fine. However, after running the motor for the 25 minutes, we shut it down, and then tried to re-crank, and it was really sluggish. We had to move the distributor to get it to crank again. I am pretty sure the timing is close, because we were able to get it to idle down to about 1150 rpm's, thats where it sounded comfortable and it had pretty decent throttle response there as well. But once we got the idle down and throttle response right (or what we thought was right) We were never able to just turn the motor off and restart it, we would always have to move the timing.

3rd Since I don't have a timing light, and never have, it may be a good time to buy one. I found TDC on the motor by the thumb in the spark plug hole method on the compression stroke, then I stabbed the dizzy in with the rotor pointing towards the #1 cylinder. My issue now is that I have an adjustable timing tab and I am unsure how to mark my timing. I think I have all the right parts, just need some guidance on what to do with them. I have the adjustable timing pointer, Timing tape (althought not to sure what to do with it yet), new MSD Street Fighter Distributor, and a nice big block that I can crank, but not seem to restart.....

Any Advice is greatly appreciated......

lots of information is still needed. compression, dist type and setup (MSD, GM HEI, stock GM etc. total mechanical advance, vac advance in use or not).

you can find TDC on the compression stroke using a piston stop. once you have done that, you put your adjustable pointer where it points to the 0* mark on your ballancer. from there you put the timing tape on your ballancer (you got the right one for the diameter of your ballancer right?) you need a timing light to set your timing correctly. lots of people say that they just do it by ear... ok, but you won't know what you have or be able to make accurate adjustments without knowing where you are. once you have the light, you can tell base timing and total advance, and how quickly it comes in with the light and the timing tape you got already.

also i would figure out what is going on with your temp gage. it shoulda moved after 30 minutes running around 2k rpm. did the motor feel warm/hot? stock gage, aftermarket? you sure you hooked it up to the temp sender?

start with that. personally, i know i want to know exactly what is going on (timing, temp, oil pressure etc.) on a new motor even more than on one i know runs well.

Well the motor is basically a stock bottom end, stock heads (781 castings) with a Summit Grind Cam K-1302 split duration 286/296 .540 lift, I tried the piston stopper, and the piston would never hit the piston stop, does this sound right? I was turning the motor with the ratchet, and the piston would go up and then right back down, never hitting the stop? My distributor is and MSD HEI setup, and the vacuum advance is in use, although not tuned to the motor just yet. So I have to be able to find when the piston is at the top of the stroke, but if it doesn't hit the piston stop, is there another method?

As far as the temp gauge, it is an Autometer Mechanical gauge, and it goes into the port right next to the water neck on the intake. The motor seemed warm, and the upper radiator hose was hot to the touch, but the gauge never moved, I didn't think a mechanical temp gauge would go bad. Maybe the Thermostat wasn't opening? Not sure, maybe next time I crank, I'll take the thermostat out? I have a Robert Shaw T-stat 180* and I have two or three small holes drilled in it for some flow before it opens.

Well the motor is basically a stock bottom end, stock heads (781 castings) with a Summit Grind Cam K-1302 split duration 286/296 .540 lift, I tried the piston stopper, and the piston would never hit the piston stop, does this sound right? I was turning the motor with the ratchet, and the piston would go up and then right back down, never hitting the stop? My distributor is and MSD HEI setup, and the vacuum advance is in use, although not tuned to the motor just yet. So I have to be able to find when the piston is at the top of the stroke, but if it doesn't hit the piston stop, is there another method?

As far as the temp gauge, it is an Autometer Mechanical gauge, and it goes into the port right next to the water neck on the intake. The motor seemed warm, and the upper radiator hose was hot to the touch, but the gauge never moved, I didn't think a mechanical temp gauge would go bad. Maybe the Thermostat wasn't opening? Not sure, maybe next time I crank, I'll take the thermostat out? I have a Robert Shaw T-stat 180* and I have two or three small holes drilled in it for some flow before it opens.

if the piston is not hitting the stop, is it an adjustable stop? if so you might need to screw it in a little further. by the way if you do get it to hit the stop (yes, use the wrench, DO NOT TRY TO BUMP THE STARTER, unless you like holes in your pistons)... anyway, if you get it to hit the stop, this is not TDC. you need to mark the ballancer where it hits the stop and then rotate back the other direction till it hits again. mark the ballancer again in that spot, then exactly in the middle of the 2 marks is your TDC location.

if ya top rad hose is warm or hot, you are getting flow through the stat. you should be able to take the cap of the rad and see some circulation going on there, and feel warm water in the rad. if ya got those, then it has to be a prob with the gage, or the sending unit, or the wiring. is the gage grounded well?

oh yeah, forgot to mention... MSD dist's you can set the advance curve by changing the springs and limit the total mechanical advance by changing the bushings. there should be directions and all the spare parts on the box. if you don't have that, just check the MSD website. they have the info posted there as well. pretty easy to do. you want about 36* total mechanical adv. all in by around 3k rpm (careful reading the chart, it can be a little confusing if you are not paying attention). you also want as much initial mechanical advance as you can set the dist up for. usually about 16*-18*

use the search function... there are tons of threads about this on here.

Using a piston stop that goes into the spark plug hole is very difficult. The problem is that when you have to screw it way in to make contact, the leverage the piston has on it will easily bend it without you being able to feel it while turning with a wrench. I did this with the engine on a stand in ideal conditions and I bent the stop significantly which lead to me never getting a good measurement, and I had a degree wheel on it. Not saying you cannot be successful, but I think it would be very difficult to do with that type of stop and no degree wheel.

Thats interesting, I'll have to check and see if the piston stop is bent at all, I do remember having to screw it all the way in and am pretty sure it never hit the stop, or at least I didn't feel it.....

Using a piston stop that goes into the spark plug hole is very difficult. The problem is that when you have to screw it way in to make contact, the leverage the piston has on it will easily bend it without you being able to feel it while turning with a wrench. I did this with the engine on a stand in ideal conditions and I bent the stop significantly which lead to me never getting a good measurement, and I had a degree wheel on it. Not saying you cannot be successful, but I think it would be very difficult to do with that type of stop and no degree wheel.

personally, i have never used one. i always set up the pointer before the heads go on using a dial indicator on the piston usually. but that is scary to know you can hit the stop and not know it... is it rigid enough to damage the piston when this happens?

I put a small indentation in the piston but it could have been worse. I think if it was rigid enough to really damage the piston I would have been able to feel it. I prefer the stop bolted across the deck, but with heads on that does not work out so well.

if the piston is not hitting the stop, is it an adjustable stop? if so you might need to screw it in a little further. by the way if you do get it to hit the stop (yes, use the wrench, DO NOT TRY TO BUMP THE STARTER, unless you like holes in your pistons)... anyway, if you get it to hit the stop, this is not TDC. you need to mark the ballancer where it hits the stop and then rotate back the other direction till it hits again. mark the ballancer again in that spot, then exactly in the middle of the 2 marks is your TDC location.

if ya top rad hose is warm or hot, you are getting flow through the stat. you should be able to take the cap of the rad and see some circulation going on there, and feel warm water in the rad. if ya got those, then it has to be a prob with the gage, or the sending unit, or the wiring. is the gage grounded well? In reference to your method of finding TDC?Either I am missing what you are trying to describe or its not something I would do.If you find TDC and the rotate to TDC eitherway you went 360 degrees,midway between those points would be BDC,just sounds wrong the way you describe that procedure?:)

No he said it right. It will be 360° minus X. X being 2 times how far before tdc the stop stops the piston.


The holes in the stat is why you got no temp up(my zz is like that with only one 1/8th" hole), either that or you kinked the capillary of your gauge. That black line has a tiny copper tube full of ammonia gas inside the sheath. Kink it and the ammonia can't expand against the gauge head. Every once in awhile you can un-kink them, but usually they are erratic ever after.

hmm, so the holes in the t-stat caused the motor to not warm up? Is that a bad thing, I remember reading that the holes in the T-stat had some kind of beneficial effect on keeping the motor cool, but I dont remember what the effect was, maybe it was keeping the temps down?

Note - Keep an eye on the oil pressure during entire cam breakin period as the moly cam lube can at times (though not often) partially or fully clog the oil filter
which will result in a small or drastic drop in oil pressure. If this happens and the oil pressure drops below lets say 30psi @ 2500 rpms i would shut it down and change the oil filter then proceed with finishing out the ballance of the cam breakin time period. I would use an AC PF35 truck filter(or equivilent) that has the extra capacity to help avoid a moly clogged oil filter. I would not recommend Fram oil filters as they have been noted in the Team chevelle site for collapsing when oil filter bypasses are blocked off and also for clogging easily with moly lube durring cam breakin according to members on the site.
As quoted by member SWHEATON.....

I wonder if this is why my oil pressure dropped to 30 lbs, possibly it got clogged with the moly lube that I added??? hmmm very interesting, darn, that Valvoline Race Oil is expensive, I'm gonna have to change it. I had the Valvoline Race 10-30 with a bottle of Comp Cams Break In additive, that is really thick stuff, and a WIX Gold Filter for break in. What oil is everyone using? I had planned to use the Valvoline Race 10-30 with a K&N Filter for normal use.

No he said it right. It will be 360° minus X. X being 2 times how far before tdc the stop stops the piston.


The holes in the stat is why you got no temp up(my zz is like that with only one 1/8th" hole), either that or you kinked the capillary of your gauge. That black line has a tiny copper tube full of ammonia gas inside the sheath. Kink it and the ammonia can't expand against the gauge head. Every once in awhile you can un-kink them, but usually they are erratic ever after.
Not trying to challenge anyone but this is basic four stroke theory:720 degrees of crankshaft rotation per 360 degree camshaft rotation,right?If you rotate crank,lets say clockwise until piston reaches piston stop that would be TDC either on compression or exhaust (really doesent matter for the point I am trying to illustrate)If you then rotate engine until piston reaches stop again(360 degrees)you are now at TDC again.midway between those points(180 degrees) would be BDC.Once again just trying to help out in this most basic point.:D

Not trying to challenge anyone but this is basic four stroke theory:720 degrees of crankshaft rotation per 360 degree camshaft rotation,right?If you rotate crank,lets say clockwise until piston reaches piston stop that would be TDC either on compression or exhaust (really doesent matter for the point I am trying to illustrate)If you then rotate engine until piston reaches stop again(360 degrees)you are now at TDC again.midway between those points(180 degrees) would be BDC.Once again just trying to help out in this most basic point.:D

well, yes and no. in theory you are correct if the piston stop were to actually stop the piston at TDC... but in reality, it is going to stop it a couple degrees before TDC, and then a couple degrees after TDC when you rotate it back the other way. this is why the midpoint is your actual TDC location.

No he said it right.

It will be 360° minus X.

X being 2 times how far before tdc the stop stops the piston.




You are not challenging me, don't worry about asking questions that's how we learn. 4 stroke theory has squat to do with finding tdc until you want to find tdc compression for valve lashing or setting a mag or distributor up. I have to find tdc on huge 2 strokes and double-acting reciprocating gas compressors every day, and bdc more often than tdc. Hell on big compressors it is sometimes common practice to stick an allen wrench between the piston and head, bar it until you can't, mark it and backup and pull the wrench, go thru tdc, stick the allen back in and reverse until you can't, mark it. Take a piece of paper and lay it beside your 2 marks. Make marks on the paper corresponding to the marks you just made, fold the paper in half and that's how far it is from either mark to true tdc. This is a deal I like to have the covers off a bigass machine when I teach it to my guys because it makes it easy to see how far the crank rotates without piston movement. I use an indicator most frquently, just find max travel then make marks at .025(or .050) each side of max travel but be careful to have the piston rising in the bore or else you'll read some bearing and pin slop on the downstroke and get a little error.

OK, so since last crank, I figured out some things, I think.

First of all, I changed the oil filter, not the oil, to see if the filter was clogged at all. I was immediately freaked out when I saw the black metal powder looking stuff on the filter. It wasn't flakes, just made the oil look really dirty, and when you ran your finger across it, you could tell it was metal particles. But I have read that with most internal engine work, you will get a fair amount of debris during the first few cranks and oil changes. Once I changed the oil filter, I cranked it again, and the oil pressure went back up to 65-70 psi. It eventually got low again, so I'll just keep changing the filter until I get most of the junk out and then do a nice clean oil change, and do the same until I get it really clean in there.

Second, I installed the new Sears Die Hard Gold Truck/SUV series battery and was still having trouble cranking, so I took a good look at the dizzy position and noticed it would only crank if I turned it completey counter clockwise until the vacuum advance would hit the intake, so I figured I'd just move the plug wires over one position to the counter clockwise, so I could be able to get the timing right. This worked well, as now my number one plug wire is pointing almost directly to the #1 cylinder when the motor starts. I don't have a timing light, which wouldn't help me in this situation anyway, because I couldn't find the TDC with the piston stop, so I decided to go old school and just use the ear method. I found that there is an almost EXACT position where the motor will crank on a dime, that is it starts right up. If I move from that position for any reason, It doesn't want to crank once shut off. Are the BB's that tempermental on timing? And how imperative will it be that I eventually find the TDC?

I am waiting for it to cool down a little because I still am not getting any water flow through the t-stat or radiator, and no indication on the temp gauge. I am going to take the t-stat housing off, and add coolant to the block to make sure there are no air pockets, and see if that helps.

Any advice is always greatly appreciated.

The piston stop is designed to be screwed into the cylinder BELOW TDC. When the crank is rotated clockwise until the piston touches the stop, read crankshaft degrees off your degree wheel. If you don't have a degree wheel, get one. When the crank is rotated the opposite direction until it touches the stop, read number of degrees again. The difference between the 2 readings divided by 2 is the number of degrees to TDC from your initial reading. Invest in a timing light and change the oil with the filter. Oil and filter cost don't compare to the cost of rebuilding the motor again. You may have a weak starter or corroded cable connections, the engine shouldn't be difficult to start unless your timing is way advanced.