So I don't think I have ever seen a post in here on seat belts. Most of us are probably pushing the limits of our cars with aftermarket parts and upgraded drivetrain, but what about safety?

I don't have a roll bar and I am not currently planing one, but that might change. I'm worried about the roll bar on the street mainly.

Are there any options for upgrading my stock belts? I really like having the separate lap and shoulder belt and adding new style retractable belts is out of the question. Any ideas? Should I just get a roll bar?

A while back I brought up the idea of making a seatbelt bar that bolts where the stock three point belts bolt in on the roof and would allow me to install 4 or 5 point belts. However, somebody pointed out that this was a terrible idea because in the event of a rollover crash those racing belts would prevent me from being able to bend over and since I would not have a roll bar I would be crushed. So in light of that I would say its either a roll bar or some retractable 3 point belts and some decent seats to hold you in place in the corners.

Check the interiors section using the search function. ;)

Mine came from: http://www.andoauto.com/Chevelle.htm
scroll to the bottom. I like them a lot.

seat belts? we don't need no stinking seat belts!!

I really don't like the 3pt retractable style. One of my favorite things about these cars is the separate shoulder/lap belt. Does anyone make a replacement style belt? I'm going to look into getting some made.

I wanted to stay away from a roll bar, but if I plan on hitting track days it might be a necessity.

I used these. nice retro look chrome lift lever and right price

http://gotbelts.com/rechlilelaps.html

Bump for an old post. Looking into seat belts again and was wondering what others are doing?

Does your other car(s) not have 3 point seat belts? It's like the industry standard, or something. :)

I will not be re-installing my 3-point seatbelts for some time now. I will ship a set down to you to try out if you'd like. Only drilling required is one hole for the retractor part, but you could just clamp it to something for fitment/feel purposes.

Click over to the Wheels and Tires section and check out my thread on tires. I am wanting to run 305/45s out back on 18" rims and am concerned about the ~29" tire height. What tire size do you have up front? I think I did 9" wide wheels of front based on your setup.

I like my 3-point retractors.

The stock 3-points are too restricting of movement, and uncomfortable, and they're also inconvenient to use the shoulder straps.

I really want something a can tighten up and autocross and such. I was talking to a driving instructor the other weekend and he was looking over my car and suggested harnesses, because you don't want to be bracing yourself on the wheel. Wheel should be only for steering inputs. That's the only reason I don't want retractable belts. I might just have to go with a 3 point non-retractable until I can install a roll bar.

I put 5 points in mine (bench seat). I only use the 'bottom 3' points on the street, and all 5 when competing. Once snug, they hold me in there pretty darn good, but I can still steer/ shift/ reach the fire extinguisher if I need to. I chose the camlock releases and I really like them.

I strapped Derek into my car once to show him how it was. Maybe he'll share his opinion.

I had 3" 4-points in mine. The lap belts bolted in where the factory seat belts bolted up. The shoulder harnesses I ran over the tops of the factory bench seat and drilled floor mounting holes as far back as i could.

Many will claim spine compression issues in a major accident...I'd rather worry about a the "chance" of spine compression issues in a major wreck, then for sure have to worry about getting punched in the chest/face by the steering wheel in any accident.

I had 3" 4-points in mine. The lap belts bolted in where the factory seat belts bolted up. The shoulder harnesses I ran over the tops of the factory bench seat and drilled floor mounting holes as far back as i could.



Similar here, except with aftermarket buckets and reinforced the floor mounting point (3/8" plate on the backside of the bolt) for the shoulder straps.

I strapped Derek into my car once to show him how it was. Maybe he'll share his opinion.

They definitely hold you in place. :yes:

Great for autocross IMHO, but I'd be a little uneasy using them at higher speeds because of the spinal compression factor in a hard frontal impact and inability for your body to slump to the center of the vehicle in a rollover (your head is the highest point)

Without a cage 3-points are the typically safest.
With a cage, 5 points are absolutely necessary.

From what I hear these are the way to go.


http://www.morrisclassicconcepts.com/Billy%20Page%20Three.htm

Has anyone found or tried an OEM seat with an integrated 3 point? That would be helpful for the convertible crowd, but I have not come across one narrow enough to fit in an A Body.

Has anyone found or tried an OEM seat with an integrated 3 point? That would be helpful for the convertible crowd, but I have not come across one narrow enough to fit in an A Body.

When you do find one, let me know. Cadillac DTS has a decent option. Not sure on the year.

I'm pretty sure that this would rock the party if it ever gets built:
http://www.automotive.com/future-cars/91/37038/112-0801-cadillac-cts-coupe-concept/photos8-3.html

GM SUV's as well as Lincoln Mrk VIII too. Both likely too wide and possibly too tall. I have been keeping an eye out for a decent option in this configuration for a while now.

check out the roadster shop chevelle conv. it looks like they somehow incorporated them into the seat. not ideal since you have a 4 pt and no cage, but id still consider it.


http://image.superchevy.com/f/32208075+w750+st0/sucp_1003_26+1970_chevy_chevelle_roadster+custom_i nterior.jpg

Saw that in PHotRod too. Very nice and the low back seat saves the lines of the car. I was looking for something a little more plug&play but is a very nice looking set up.

I have the same belts as in that convert above. Just with a high back seat and anchored at the floor.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll18/rogers98_photos/DSCF2355.jpg

I will NOT run a harness without a bar in the car. I think I will just wait until I install a bar and upgrade then.

For the anti “4-point without a bar crowd”...I wonder how many lives would have been saved had they run a 4-point vs. how many accident victims would have died had they been running a 4-point without a bar.

I see a lot of accidents. A large majority would greatly have benefitted from being held locked into position in the driver seat. I have yet to see a roll over that crushed the roof to the point it would have caused skull/spinal injuries had the driver been locked upright (that includes a patrol Charger that barrel rolled 4 times)...just a thought.

Also keep in mind more than a few have been killed by hitting their heads on the crossbar, running a cage requires wearing a helmet every time you get into the car.

For the anti “4-point without a bar crowd”...I wonder how many lives would have been saved had they run a 4-point vs. how many accident victims would have died had they been running a 4-point without a bar.In that case, I wonder how many people who have been saved by retracting 3-points would have died if they had 4-points because they're too cumbersome, restrictive, and uncomfortable to use properly every time they get in the vehicle...

When I had stock non-retracting belts, I never wore the shoulder belt, and neither did any of my passengers. With retracting 3-points, everyone who gets in my car wears both a lap and shoulder belt, and everyone knows how to use them properly without any special instruction.

Also keep in mind more than a few have been killed by hitting their heads on the crossbar, running a cage requires wearing a helmet every time you get into the car.I agree. :)

My headliner still looks pretty, so I opted for harness. :(

I have separate lap and shoulder belts and wear them both every time I get in. My passengers also wear them both. I do have to tell them to put them on and how to if they've never ridden in the car before. Who knows how good a 40 year old pair of belts will actually work when the time comes.

I understand the risks of hitting body parts against the bar, but I think this is minimized with a good seat and only a roll bar. A full cage is a different story here.

I do not daily drive the car so the extra hassle of buckling up won't bother me. When I do drive it, I drive it like I stole it. A 3 point retractable belt isn't something I want either.

I guess this is the reason this isn't discussed. Always 15 different opinions and not much factual information to make a decision.

it may be the newer construction, but in my job i have never seen a roof crushed from a rollover. i have seen cars impact poles and wrap around roof first (different story though), and most of those patients survived because their body ended up in a void between the seats. in fact, i usually have to look at a car for more than just a glace to tell theyve been rolled. some only have paint damage, and very little structural.

that being said, everyone has good points. if you dont wrap it around something roof first, then a 4 pt is your best option. if you rear end someone or get rear ended, i dont think it can be argued that a 4 pt is not the best option. but if youre like most and dont wear the entire 4 pt, your survival rate just decreased a ton.

im still looking for a 3 point that is incorporated in the seat. it would be worn ALL the time, and it wouldnt look out of place (imho) like the retrofit 3 pts. it wouldnt hold as well as a 4 pt in turns, but my seats will help out with that a little.

this is one i was on. car impacted the pole 5 feet higher on the pole, and took most of the impact to the roof which has been cut off in this pic. both occupants survived, but the driver wouldnt have with a 4 pt and probably not with a 4pt/roll bar combo either.

http://i858.photobucket.com/albums/ab145/chevelle496ci/TCCR.jpg?t=1269053509

Tim

it may be the newer construction, but in my job i have never seen a roof crushed from a rollover.

Wish I had a scanner Dad flipped his '67 Chevelle SS396 back in the late 60s and put the top even with the top of the door. Dad and his passenger both broke their collar bones. Don't feel bad for the passenger he got a 68 383 Cuda out of it. Dad replaced the Chevelle with a '68 RS/SS 350 4spd Camaro.

I would not run a 4pt in a 60s car without a rollbar. I flipped my '94 Z28 and the T top roof held up well so maybe a 4pt in that. I've seen C4s hold up well in rollovers too.

I do agree that helmets are require with a cage at ALL times. I've heard to many stories of people hitting their head in minor accidents and getting killed or sent to the ICU.

Didn't cars come with a shoulder harness starting about 70? I had a friend that had a 70 Impala years ago, it had shoulder harnesses in it, with a clip to hold them up if they were not used. I assumed Chevelles were similar. I've never run anything besides my 64, so I can't be sure.

devin

Wish I had a scanner Dad flipped his '67 Chevelle SS396 back in the late 60s and put the top even with the top of the door. Dad and his passenger both broke their collar bones.

vehicle construction has come a LONG way in 40 years, so i dont doubt that a chevelle would flatten. so, its kind of a balancing act when we arent going with the best setup. if we all had full cages and 5 pts and ran all pieces and a helmet every time we were on the road, it could be argued that we couldnt be any safer.

but if you run a roll bar without a helmet?
a 4 pt without wearing all pieces?
a 3 pt and youre in an offset frontal or rear impact and dont have airbags?

all of these are worst case scenarios for that setup, but what is going to protect you the most for the type of driving youre going to do? im still trying to figure that out. all i know is that any option is better than stock lap belts.

vehicle construction has come a LONG way in 40 years, so i dont doubt that a chevelle would flatten. so, its kind of a balancing act when we arent going with the best setup. if we all had full cages and 5 pts and ran all pieces and a helmet every time we were on the road, it could be argued that we couldnt be any safer.

but if you run a roll bar without a helmet?
a 4 pt without wearing all pieces?
a 3 pt and youre in an offset frontal or rear impact and dont have airbags?

all of these are worst case scenarios for that setup, but what is going to protect you the most for the type of driving youre going to do? im still trying to figure that out. all i know is that any option is better than stock lap belts.

Very true its all trade offs. The picture just really drives it home like your post. I have thought about a 4pt rollbar because of the pic of Dad's car but I would want it far enough back where a helmet wouldn't be required (not sure how possible that would be).

Having rolled a car, it is surprisingly easy to get a car upside down, saw a Nissan Murano upside down after being hit by a box van last week. Speaking of progress, I'm sure the passengers are still sore but the car held up very well. It didn't look like the interior crumpled in hardly at all. Hopefully they are OK.

I too like the idea of a 3 point belt integrated into the seat. I've seen this seat in the E46 BMW M3 convertible. These aren't big cars, so the fit should be ok. Also highly bolstered given the nature of the car. Is there any reason this type of seat would not be a good option for a car like my 66? Morris belts don't seem to be an option for 66 and older.

It would be worthwile to hunt one down and take some measurements. I didn't know they had and integrated belt in those cars.

Great idea...good luck finding some decent used M3 seats at a bargain price though.

I've been kicking the seatbelt ideas around for a while also. Looking back I would have built a cage as I was starting the project, but auto-x and track days weren't a thought back then. Lately I have really been kicking around the idea of the RideTech TigerCage.
http://www.ridetech.com/shop/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=1828
I know it isn't approved by sanctioning bodies, but would definitely stiffen the chassis and give good mounting points for a harness. Any thoughts?

it still leaves a dilemma; will you wear a 4 or 5 pt all the time, even on the street? and what about a helmet? bare head vs the roll bar isnt pretty.......

Great idea...good luck finding some decent used M3 seats at a bargain price though.

You're right, not cheap but they are out there. And not even bid on yet :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2002-BMW-M3-CONVERTIBLE-FRONT-DRIVER-SEAT-090793_W0QQitemZ370346247134QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMot ors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item563a5b43d e

No. Not cheap, but neither are Sparcos, Recaros etc. Those seats still leave you with the seatbelt question. I have access to the BMW seats at a local dealership and can take some measurements. I'll compare them to the stock buckets in my 66 and let you know.

Checked out the BMW seats. The would definately fit. I was surprised at how loose the seat felt to sit in! This combined with the slippery leather I don't think would be a good mix for autocross. I'm back into looking at a Sparco or Recaro seat with the Schroth Ralleye 4 harness.

I've been thinking about installing some Kirkey Intermediate Road Race seats, 5-6 point harness and a 4-6pt roll bar.

http://kirkeyracing.com/images/Thumbnails/47%20SERIES%20-%20BLACK%20TWEED_Medium.JPG

Checked out the BMW seats. The would definately fit. I was surprised at how loose the seat felt to sit in! This combined with the slippery leather I don't think would be a good mix for autocross. I'm back into looking at a Sparco or Recaro seat with the Schroth Ralleye 4 harness.

Thank you for taking a look. Did you actually confirm they would fit by taking some measurements? What year did you look at?
Thanks again!

I've been thinking about installing some Kirkey Intermediate Road Race seats, 5-6 point harness and a 4-6pt roll bar.

http://kirkeyracing.com/images/Thumbnails/47%20SERIES%20-%20BLACK%20TWEED_Medium.JPG

I wonder how strong those seats are... IF used without a cage/crossbar, would the upper shoulderbelt locating hole be strong enough to "likely" eliminate the possibility of spinal compression?

And that "headrest" probably eliminates the chance of your head contacting the hop or cross-bar on a 4-6 pt roll bar setup (not a full cage though)

No. Not cheap, but neither are Sparcos, Recaros etc. Those seats still leave you with the seatbelt question. I have access to the BMW seats at a local dealership and can take some measurements. I'll compare them to the stock buckets in my 66 and let you know.


Scott (1badbu) runs the BMW seats in his ride. Hope you dont mind, Scott. Just a visual that applied to the topic at hand. :thumbsup:



http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff109/Scotts1BadBu/000_0003.jpg

Checked out the BMW seats. The would definately fit. I was surprised at how loose the seat felt to sit in! This combined with the slippery leather I don't think would be a good mix for autocross. I'm back into looking at a Sparco or Recaro seat with the Schroth Ralleye 4 harness.

If you are willing to recover the seats you may have plenty of options. I have thought about seats from my daily beater 2dr '91 Accord and adding some more bolster. You may want to take walk around a local pick a part. A few of the local C5 Vette guys added to the bolster of the factory seats and pass through for a 5 point harness.

Not an addition to the thread but in the spirit on the conversation, I wondered if this guy wears a helmet when he drives this?
http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/cto/1679329731.html

Ok, laughing about this will help offset the queasy feeling. :( :p

I too like the idea of a 3 point belt integrated into the seat. I've seen this seat in the E46 BMW M3 convertible. These aren't big cars, so the fit should be ok. Also highly bolstered given the nature of the car. Is there any reason this type of seat would not be a good option for a car like my 66? Morris belts don't seem to be an option for 66 and older.
I have a 66 and it had the mounting locations for the Morris belts. I believe they included them mid-year sometime.

My concern with seat integrated seatbelts are the floor mounting points. At high impact you may shear the seats right off the floor.

I think you're right about that. They would need to have a mount plate similar to a rollbar at a minimum. Even better to tie them into a cross brace with the frame.

Not an addition to the thread but in the spirit on the conversation, I wondered if this guy wears a helmet when he drives this?
http://lasvegas.craigslist.org/cto/1679329731.html

Ok, laughing about this will help offset the queasy feeling. :( :p

Na... Probably some short kid whose head is well below the roof bar... ;)

Something I never thought I'd see "GeoStorm" and "Showcar" in the same ad...

Scott (1badbu) runs the BMW seats in his ride. Hope you dont mind, Scott. Just a visual that applied to the topic at hand. :thumbsup:



http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff109/Scotts1BadBu/000_0003.jpg
I really like the looks of these seats...can you provide the specifics?

THANKS!

Bumping an old thread I know, but I've been looking around and haven't found a good option. Trying to find a worthwhile setup to put in my convertible as I can only imagine how terrible 40 year old lap belts might be should things go wrong. Does anyone have an auto-x friendly arrangement in their vert?