There have been several threads on rivets for ball joints in upper control arms.

I have found no way to successfully install real rivets. If anyone knows of a way I would love to hear it, I would even be willing to purchase a machine to do it as I get many requests.

To date the best thing I have come across are button head bolts. I recently had a request for those so I snapped a picture of them installed. To finish them off I would fill the head with a little putty, and then put a dab of paint on it and you would never be able to tell.

Are those button head bolts grade 8? I wouldn't use them if they aren't at least grade 8.

I have no idea how hard the rivets are that hold an airplane together, but I saw a show where one was assembled. they used some sort of hand-held device that actually vibrated and seemed to pulverize the rivet to seat it. they would put a block of something over the head of the rivet to hold it in place.

There have been several threads on rivets for ball joints in upper control arms.

I have found no way to successfully install real rivets. If anyone knows of a way I would love to hear it, I would even be willing to purchase a machine to do it as I get many requests.

To date the best thing I have come across are button head bolts. I recently had a request for those so I snapped a picture of them installed. To finish them off I would fill the head with a little putty, and then put a dab of paint on it and you would never be able to tell.

What is the proper sized rivet for the application? McMaster carries this hydraulic rivet gun that does up to 1/4" diameter rivets:

http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/115/gfx/large/6879ac2l.gif

I have no idea how hard the rivets are that hold an airplane together, but I saw a show where one was assembled. they used some sort of hand-held device that actually vibrated and seemed to pulverize the rivet to seat it. they would put a block of something over the head of the rivet to hold it in place.

there really isn't any load on those bolts/rivets- the balljoint fits snugly into the hole in the arm (which holds all the side to side loads that the upper balljoint sees), and the bolts/rivets just hold the balljoint up against the steel so it can't fall out.
none of the weight of the car is supported by the upper balljoint- it just holds the top of the tire in the in/out and forward/back planes.

Are those button head bolts grade 8? I wouldn't use them if they aren't at least grade 8.

Yes they are grade 8.

What is the proper sized rivet for the application? McMaster carries this hydraulic rivet gun that does up to 1/4" diameter rivets:

http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/115/gfx/large/6879ac2l.gif

That looks like a pop rivet gun. The rivets used in the upper arm are formed on one end. the ball joint must be held tightly in place while the other end of the rivet is "pended" over to hold the ball joint in place. In some cases rivets are installed red hot and when they cool they shrink and tighten the item being fastened in place, but I do not believe that is how these rivets work.

I have no idea how hard the rivets are that hold an airplane together, but I saw a show where one was assembled. they used some sort of hand-held device that actually vibrated and seemed to pulverize the rivet to seat it. they would put a block of something over the head of the rivet to hold it in place.

I believe this to be the same mentod used on the ball joints when build. the ball joint is held in place, the head of the rivet is backed, and the other end is beat over to hold everthing together. I can understand how this was done at the factory with a large power clamp, but to do this in a home shop I do not know how to do it.

there really isn't any load on those bolts/rivets- the balljoint fits snugly into the hole in the arm (which holds all the side to side loads that the upper balljoint sees), and the bolts/rivets just hold the balljoint up against the steel so it can't fall out.
none of the weight of the car is supported by the upper balljoint- it just holds the top of the tire in the in/out and forward/back planes.


True enough, however when on rough roads, or hitting pot holes the arm must follow the movements of the tire which can be violent. Also remember that stock rubber bushings are not bearings, they resit movement abd the ball joint "connection" is what over comes that resistenance.

Yes they are grade 8.

Button heads may be the same strength as socket head cap screws but they are not intended for use in high load applications. Although the threaded portion is as strong, the head is not.

I could be wrong , but the high strength steel rivets I have seen installed to hold metal together have been installed red hot and beat down with a hammer or an air hammer with a special tip.

Button heads may be the same strength as socket head cap screws but they are not intended for use in high load applications. Although the threaded portion is as strong, the head is not.

I asked that very question when I bought these (there were purchased at a fastener specialty vendor) and was told that if the heads were not as strong as the threads they could not be given a grade 8 rating????????

I asked that very question when I bought these (there were purchased at a fastener specialty vendor) and was told that if the heads were not as strong as the threads they could not be given a grade 8 rating????????


Read about button heads at McMaster-Carr at the link below:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#about-button-head-socket-head-cap-screws/=d13a5


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Screws provide a wide bearing surface, low head, and a finished appearance. Class 3A thread fit. Screw length is measured from under the head. Note: Button head screws are not recommended for high strength applications.
Self-locking screws are reusable. A nylon patch bonded to the threads keeps them from vibrating loose. Patches withstand temperatures from -65° to +250° F.
Type 316 Stainless Steel— More corrosion resistant than 18-8 stainless steel. May be mildly magnetic. Screws have a minimum Rockwell hardness of B85 and minimum tensile strength of 120,000 psi.
18-8 Stainless Steel and Black-Oxide 18-8 Stainless Steel— Have excellent corrosion resistance. May be mildly magnetic. Minimum Rockwell hardness is B70. Minimum tensile strength is 70,000 psi. Black oxide provides a decorative finish.
Self-Locking 18-8 Stainless Steel— Screws have a minimum Rockwell hardness of B85 and minimum tensile strength of 85,000 psi.
Zinc-Plated Alloy Steel and Black-Oxide Alloy Steel— Exceed Grade 5 and conform to ASTM F835. Minimum Rockwell hardness is C39 for sizes up to and including 1/2" diameter; C37 for sizes larger than 1/2" diameter. Minimum tensile strength is 144,000 psi for sizes up to and including 1/2" diameter; 135,000 psi for sizes larger than 1/2" diameter. Zinc plating offers good rust resistance. Black oxide offers mild rust resistance and some lubricity.
Self-Locking Black-Oxide Alloy Steel— Screws have a minimum Rockwell hardness of B85 and minimum tensile strength of 85,000 psi.
Brass screws in the same sizes as the Type 316 SS screws listed below. Minimum tensile strength is 55,000 psi. Please ask for 97715A555 and specify thread size and screw length.
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Hey Glen,

We've been riviting balljoints and rotors together for years on corvettes/pontiacs etc.

First you bolt the balljoint in minus one hole. You take a rivet(not a pop rivet) make sure it fits in the hole easily, then heat it up with a torch till it is glowing red/orange. Then quickly place the arms over the rivit and use an impack hamer to smash the rivit together quickly.

Several tools had to be made to hold the rivit/rotor and smash the rivit. Its definatly a two person job, or 3 if it your first time.
The Corvette NCRS judges all apporove.

Hey Glen,

We've been riviting balljoints and rotors together for years on corvettes/pontiacs etc.

First you bolt the balljoint in minus one hole. You take a rivet(not a pop rivet) make sure it fits in the hole easily, then heat it up with a torch till it is glowing red/orange. Then quickly place the arms over the rivit and use an impack hamer to smash the rivit together quickly.

Several tools had to be made to hold the rivit/rotor and smash the rivit. Its definatly a two person job, or 3 if it your first time.
The Corvette NCRS judges all apporove.

This is great information. I had thought of doing just as you indicated, bolt three bolts up first to hold the ball joint in place and then rivet the fourth hole. What I thought I might do is take a punch and hollow out the head of it to fit the rivet. Put he punch in a vice, put the revit in the hole, hold the assemble against the punch and use a flat punch in an air hammer to bash the other end.

I have heard people talk about people doing Corvette rivets but have never found some one that does it.

Would you be able to take some pictures and send them to mew of the tools you made? autoshop@rochester.rr.com Thanks

What is a fair price to charge to reviting a set of upper arms?