My car arrived at the bodyshop the week of Thanksgiving. We verbally agreed the car would be finished by January 1st. I insisted on a contract which he extended to Jan 15th, no big deal.Half down, another deposit when in primer,final pay when finished.He has made three promises of when it will be in primer, before Christmas, by New Years, and a week ago which did not happen. He is in breach of contract now, by not having the car done by the 15th.I am not really concerned about a couple of weeks delay.He also asked for the third installment early and said he would not charge extra for some patches, if I was able to pay in advance, I complied,three weeks ago, and the car is still not in primer. Next weekend is February 1st, its a little shop, and I know exactly what has happened, the money I have put down has been spent on other things, and now they cant afford the cost of materials to paint my car. They also started doing some side jobs on newer cars,to help cover my cars costs, because the money I put down is long gone, and mine is left in paint prison. I am easy to get along with, but I hate being lied to, and do not like someone breaking their word, and a contract. I also dont like my kindness mistaken for weakness.My patience is beginning to wear thin. How much longer would you wait after these shananagins. I refuse to fork over another penny until the car is completly finished, which is also in the contract. I understand the woes of being the little guy business owner,been there. But the car has set idle for weeks at a time, while they work on other vehicles that did not need to be out of the shop two weeks ago. I dont want to pull the car out of the shop, (what a nightmare),cant drive it now anyway, but dont want to wait until April for my car either. Anyone have similiar experiences, or advice. Sorry just had to vent to the only guys I knew that would understand :thumbsup:

My car arrived at the bodyshop the week of Thanksgiving. We verbally agreed the car would be finished by January 1st. I insisted on a contract which he extended to Jan 15th, no big deal.Half down, another deposit when in primer,final pay when finished.He has made three promises of when it will be in primer, before Christmas, by New Years, and a week ago which did not happen. He is in breach of contract now, by not having the car done by the 15th.I am not really concerned about a couple of weeks delay.He also asked for the third installment early and said he would not charge extra for some patches, if I was able to pay in advance, I complied,three weeks ago, and the car is still not in primer. Next weekend is February 1st, its a little shop, and I know exactly what has happened, the money I have put down has been spent on other things, and now they cant afford the cost of materials to paint my car. They also started doing some side jobs on newer cars, and mine is left in paint prison. I am easy to get along with, but I hate being lied to, and do not like someone breaking their word, and a contract. I also dont like my kindness mistaken for weakness.My patience is beginning to wear thin. How much longer would you wait after these shananagins. I refuse to fork over another penny until the car is completly finished, which is also in the contract. I understand the woes of being the little guy business owner,been there. But the car has set idle for weeks at a time, while they work on other vehicles that did not need to be out of the shop two weeks ago. I dont want to pull the car out of the shop, (what a nightmare),cant drive it now anyway, but dont want to wait until April for my car either. Anyone have similiar experiences, or advice. Sorry just had to vent to the only guys I knew that would understand :thumbsup:


Sounds like EVERY other paint story I have ever heard. I had a similar situation but it was a friend and neighbor who was doing the work. We ended up breaking of the relationship, my car came back to me sub-standard and I ended up selling it a few months later out of disgust.....hope your situation ends better than mine, although a turn around time of 6 weeks seems pretty quick. In my case it was 6 months....and I got the car back 3 months late.

You have three choices. 1. go get your car and ask for money back on unfinished work (not likely to get anything). 2. wait and see if he can get it done before he goes under completely (same cost as #1) Just need to be vigilant and make sure your car does not become part of the bankruptcy sale or disappears. 3. Give him more money to finish and hope he does it. I would go talk to him and get an HONEST statement of what is going on. Then decide what to do. Basically the first payments should have paid for all the materials that were needed, next two should have been for labor to do the work as it progresed. This is classic example of ponzi scheme, using new proceed to finish old work hoping more work comes and you are getting stuck when the work dried up. Good luck.

I vote cut your losses, recoup the money you spent for services not rendered and get it over with. Have a lawyer contact them about the money if needed. Shops like this dont last, he is obviously not managing the business right, not watching the books and running sort of a ponzi scheme with paint jobs (new guys pay for the old guys and so forth until the last guys in the shop get hosed and come back to find locked doors and bank documentation on the door)

You dont want to be one of the last guys there and they are not doing squat for you. I dont think I have ever heard of a situation like this, as you described, that turns out meeting satisfaction and expectation.

My vote - contracts are contracts. PERIOD. End game. Thats what they are for - to make sure both parties uphold their part of the agreement. One party has failed - I vote cut and run, recoup, have a lawyer call them if needed. Also keep in mind that my vote is the same as the law - contracts are contracts. Unless its written in swahili on some burger joint napkin with a ficticious name and no signature hold that in his face and get your car.

Ahole will always be aholes until a bigger ahole comes along and points out that its unacceptable. People arent held accountable, everything is half assed, false promises every where I go. Do your part to change it and hold them to their word.

lol - OrrieG posted when I was typing and we both saw the ponzi scheme in that. :D

The lawyer seems like the correct thing to do here. You might be able to get a telephone consultation and see if it is worth the lawyer's involvement and cost. If you have one of those legal call-in shows on the radio in your area , try that route as it is free and may give you some good guidance.

Sorry to hear your body shop hell story. Just out of curiosity, how much was the total job and how much have you paid already? The reason I ask is if it's a 2500. paint job and you've given say 1800. towards it, I'd suggest to go get the car, sic the lawyer on him and find a better shop. On the other hand, if it's a 10K job and your down 7K or so, you're in a much worse position and may have to tough it out with this loser until the car is finished. It all depends how upside down you are with this guy.

I agree 100% on the Ponzi scheme. The reason the scheme is so sucessful, is that you dont know your being Ponzied until its too late. It was a 4k paint job, and Im now out 3k. I would have to find another painter, and be out another $2,500 to have it finished by someone else. 3k is 3k, I worked hard for it, and hate that someone is trying to one me over. Its also bad if it does get to primer, it may be another month to paint, and Im still out 2,500 to have it painted by someone else. I have a copy of the contract,have dated, and photographed all of the work to present, and would need estimates from other painters to finish the car to help my case, but in a worst case scenerio, I thought small claims court might be the way to go. I may never have another car painted again.

Go get your car and cut your loses....I wish I would have done that at the first sign of trouble in my situation. After some time goes by, you will gain some perspective on this and you will be happy you did.

Given these circumstances, if your contract has the I's dotted and the T's crossed, small claims is the way to go here. I'd just show up, pick the car up, document everything and then serve him with court papers. It may take a while, or maybe not, depending on where you live but in the long run you'll feel a lot better about it. The relationship with this guy will only go downhill and get worse. When he slaps a lousy paint job on your car and hands you a bill for the "EXTRA" work he did, now he has you over a barrel, plus your car is still in his possesion. I'd cut my losses right now while your on the good side of the contract. Good luck!

What city/state are you in?

I would have a long talk with him and see what your chances are in getting it done in a timely matter.... and let him know that its -$100 dollars off the bill every day its late. If he can't agree, get what you can back and find another shop.

I had the same thing happen, I just lawyered up, had another finish the job and had him pay for it. Lawyers can do some wonderful things at times, or slap a lien on his shop.
don't play games with him

1st off how is your relationship with the painter and how did you end up with your car in his shop. If you see that he is not doing the work to your satisfaction and is breaking your contract, by all means hit him and hit him hard. But if you are satisfied with what he has done so far, then think about what you are doing to yourself. If you pull the car out, then you are out money and time. I doubt very seriously that you can locate someone to turn the car as fast as what you have been told. And this goes against my core values but if it requires that you pony up a little extra coin and get him in the right direction then you are really only ahead versus pulling out. You can tie money up with your lawyer and take him to court but that will only eat up time and money and guess who makes out on that deal. It will not be you. If he does great work, praise him and get excited about his talents and I bet it will motivate him. This is one part of a restoration that killed my interest in doing anymore cars. You are in paint jail but it looks to me like you can manage it and with a little persuasion you might get the car done within a reasonable time. Then if it is completed and you are not worried about him correcting any problems or mistakes then tell him to go somewhere but if he has the skills it won't matter because the lenght of time you are stating he agreed to is not long at all for a paint job. And what you are seeing going through the shop could be obligations to long term customers or even cash work and right now is a tough time for small business owners. Just evaluate everything because this is one part of the project you want to make sure is to your satisfaction and as one post said his finished product made him sick enough to sell the car. Think clearly and good luck.

Wow!! some things (or people) NEVER change.I had a simular deal in 2001. A friend (?) of mine that I knew for 30+ years who did body work and paint only on muscle cars and was a specialist doing Corvettes (mostly 53'to 72')This guy was an artist w/ fiberglass and paint.I took my 67'corvette conv.(see link) to him to review it and to agree on a turnkey price (I'm talking cash $7000.00 job with 1500.00 down,1500.00 after bodywork,1000.00 after primer,balance when the car was painted,wet sanded,buffed and reassembled and ready to go),and a scedule date to start.I told him I was not bring the car there until he called me to let me know he was ready and his other work(s) in progress was gone.He called,I delivered,He started,worked 6 days a week (also with others helping) ,the body work was done,primer went on,Then the car got pushed in the corner(uncovered)for 8 WEEKS.I knew where this was going...So I waited for the perfect day(sat.)to pay him a visit.I waited for his buddies,friends,customers to show up (about 25 people total)Then I spoke up..CAN I HAVE EVERYONES ATTENTION!" I have known this jerk for over 30 years.He started my car Oct.15th,It's now Jan 12th and he pushed my car in the corner after the primer stage and it's been there for 8 weeks.If you think for a moment he wants your business then YOU ARE NUTS!!!All He wants is YOUR MONEY!!!"He and I excused ourself's outside to talk alone.I told him I will be at his shop DAILY to broadcast the same message unless he finished my car.I took the car home completed FEB.12th.He's now OUT OF BUSINESS.

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I would have a long talk with him and see what your chances are in getting it done in a timely matter.... and let him know that its -$100 dollars off the bill every day its late. If he can't agree, get what you can back and find another shop.

Sounds good in theory Doug, but as I'm looking at this, where's the incentive for the shop owner? He's already pulled most of the money out of the job and what's left to be paid probably doesn't even cover the cost of the primer and paint, never mind the time he needs to spend on the car! This has 2/3 year nightmare written all over it. This guy has already demonstrated his word is worth nothing, why waste more time, money and aggravation? Just my .02 on it but I'd let small claims teach him a lesson and move on!

bigsky,
wow, I thought I was reading my history when I read yours.
The guy is going to keep milking you.
Go get your car! Myself and 5 buddies went and got mine.
Cut your losses while you can. If not, DO NOT give this yerk another penny until job completed to your satisfaction. If he hasn't done anything else in another month, don't hesitate and take out a small claims on him on the way home with the car.
Way too many body shops do this and have to me and my friends. It's a disgrace.

Speak to a lawyer any way just to get an idea of what your looking at, and explain the issues honestly try not to one side it. My buddy is a lawyer and most lawyers will do an initial consultation for free to evaluate your case and get to know the situation. They will usually give you advise as to what you should do and how to approach the situation to even avoid getting legal reps involved. Don't retain a lawyer though until it is necessary to either recoup your loss or your car. Sometimes the cost of the lawyer is more than what you would loss by just taking your car back.

To answer some questions, the car is in Ohio,I did not know this guy very well, but did a small backround check and did not find any small claims suits agianst him (yet) The reason I settled with him was I got tired of every other shops outrageous quotes, for new quarters,new fenders,the car did not need them. He really seemed to have a passion for the car, or maybe it was my check book :(. I refuse to get an attorney involved, the last time I used an attorney he made out much better than I did. This is clearly a small claims case. If it goes that far, I go get the car in pieces, load it up and serve him with papers. Problem is he rents the shop, and rents a house. Might be easy to win, but hard to collect. :mad:

I'd say it looks like time for a clearing of the air with the guy. Let him know firmly that work will progress on your car. Check in on the car often and talk to the guy each time to get a report.
How much body work has been done? Is it ready to get the full prime coat? Remember it will need plenty of 'guide coat/then sand' work to get a proper foundation for a top notch paint job.
$4,000 is not a lot of money to cover the time and materials to do a full high quality paint job if it had needed much body work. I assume you have already satisfied yourself on the quality of paint work the shop turns out.
Hope it turns out for you.

Dan

If you decide to leave the car with the painter and he says he needs money for materials to finish your car, then you buy the materials from the supplier. Sounds like your payments are already ahead of the contract. In that case, I wouldn't give him any more money. I had the same problem ... one painter took 5 months to do nothing and the next took 5 months to finish.

I agree 100% on the Ponzi scheme. The reason the scheme is so sucessful, is that you dont know your being Ponzied until its too late. It was a 4k paint job, and Im now out 3k. I would have to find another painter, and be out another $2,500 to have it finished by someone else. 3k is 3k, I worked hard for it, and hate that someone is trying to one me over. .

I hate to hear these stories. They are happening around us daily as we get people coming to us needing to be rescued. Ever since Jessie James hammered a motorcycle tank out of a piece of sheetmetal on Motorcycle Mania, and the TV Hot Rod shows followed, followed by Barrett Jackson TV and the Muscle Car craze, every bodyman had a friend that needed some work done who was not willing to pay our front door price, so the bodyman opened a shop because that Jessie James and that Boyd ain't Sheot! The bodyman could put them to shame. Just ask him!

Unfortunately your problems started well before you handed over one penny. Unbeknownst to you, The real problem started when he quoted $4000 for the job. Without even seeing the car I can tell you he was set up for failure from the beginning. Sad part is he probably knew it and needed the money so he under bid thinking it would solve that days problem and he could make it up later. It's the old "lose money on every job but make it up in volume" theory.

In 28 years of successfully restoring cars, we have been able to track labor times in many situations and know how long it takes to do a car. Long story short, it is a 200 hour process to get a car from sheetmetal to the paint booth. Now that is doing one of our quality jobs, not something with compromise. Not the "I do not want a show car, just real nice" job. So even if you deduct 40 hours for a quicky / less detailed job, he still has a 4 week job in front of him.



The cheapest material one could buy that are even close to acceptable to use are as follows

Epoxy primer $125 gallon kit, 1 to 1 1/2 gallons per car easy $200
2K primer $125 gallon kit, 1 1/2 to 2 gallons per car easy $250
Base coat, Depending on color, $200 to $300 per gallon 1 gallon to 5 quarts easy $300
Clear $250 per gallon, 1 to 1 1/2 gallons per car easy $400
Sandpaper, masking paper, thinner, pre cleaner, etc $400 minimum

So even using the cheapo stuff I would never use, you have somewhere around $1500 for materials, which leaves $2500 for labor. Divided by 4 weeks of labor time is $625 week, GROSS!

I have no idea what his overhead is, but even if he is working out of his momma's garage and she pays the power bill too, he still is not making any money. So the reality is that this is a loser job for him, and he knows it now if he did not know it from the beginning.



Chances are very high that because it is a loser, and he is broke, that he will either blitz the job to get it done and shut you up leaving you with a nightmare you hate, or worse, never finish the job at all!


So your options are only 2. Either pull it now and send it to someone else! Why? Because chances are if you cut him off from cash but put the squeeze on him to get it done, ride him till he finishes it, I would take 10 to 1 odds that every bit of work you get out of him with no money is going to be blitzed and just ruin the final product anyway.



Or, go in and offer him a few extra bucks to SURVIVE finishing the car. Now I HATE, HATE, HATE this idea, but I also know he has to eat and help support the strippers habit! So as much as I HATE the idea of anyone paying more then they agreed for the same amount of work, he screwed up and under bid, period. And he is either going to die finishing the project or sacrifice your quality, or just tell you to pack sand!



NOW, the big thing you have to decide is IF you should decide to limp him along with a few dollars here and there as he goes, do you think he has the skills and integrity to do a good job anyway! Is he capable of doing good work and just a piss pour business man? Or does he really just suck at bodywork and business? That only you can decide based on the goin ons you have seen around the shop in the last 2 months.

I wish you all the luck. If I can be of any assistance, if you need a expert to call, you are welcome to call me for my opinion.

Should you decide to complete the job with him buy the materials yourself and have him sign a receipt stating they are owned by you and to be used on your car. Try to buy enough stuff that it crosses over from misdemeaner to a felony theft . This will do a couple of things.

1. This may give him the financial breathing room to finish. You may end up with an extra $1000 in the job but it is better than losing the $2500 and starting all over. Any other shop is going to do just that and not give much consideration to the work done.

2. Push him to front and center. If he refuses , he is telling you he has no intention of finishing your car. Using a lawyer is one of life's lessons in futility. Unless you have a friend or family that can write a letter or two for free the lawyer fees are better spent on the car. You are probably not the first in this position with him and a threat against a broke *ss is meaningless.

3. Irregardless of what plan of attack you decide on you are now close to your defining moment. If anything you try does not stimulate the work to be completed it is time to cut your losses ,stop the bleeding, pick up the car, lick your wounds, be pissed as hell, and move on. Chances are you are not going to change this screwing you are in the middle of but you can bring it to a conclusion.

Your situation is the very reason so many projects do not get completed. So many of us live in areas that getting a quality paint job for a reasonable price is impossible and the $10k + required to get quality and credibility is out of our reach.

It is a shame so many of life's lessons cost so much money. Growing up in the simpler times of the 60's you either gave or got a good *ss whipping and were able to move on without the raping of your pocketbook.

Good Luck.

Sad to hear another story like this. If the guys rents his house and his shop, you better realize that you may stop one day and the place will be locked up with your car inside. Obviously he isn't making enough money to cover all his expenses and his rent will be one of them. Go get the car today and get it out of that shop! Only thing worse then getting taqken like you did would be to have your car locked up in the building and the painter gone.

Get that car now, this weekend, don't let worse things happen. Don't trust they guy or anything he says. It's hard to think someone will lie right to your face, but he's allready done it several times. Get that car out now!

Lots of good advice here....some not so good. Using a lawyer is useless. You will win a court case but good luck collecting. If you pressure the guy, you will get substandard work and you will be even MORE sick about that, like I was.

GO GET YOUR CAR!

Get car
small claims?????
Cut losses
move on
life is a !@#$%^ sometimes

sorry!
I agree with above:
Get the car,
go to small claims court, get your money,
move on

Frank from Prodigy pretty much hit the nail on the head. The job was probably priced too cheap to begin with and the shop owner knows it. And as Bunz-T points out, your at the crossroad with this project. Do you trust this guy to do the right thing, maybe sink more money and set yourself up for more disappointment or walk away? My vote for you is to cut your ties here, small claims and start over. The prices you were getting in the first place maybe reflected the real day prices of an honest shop as opposed to a fly-by-nighter. I can see nothing good coming from this situation. All that can change it is more money to a guy who has already burned you. Good luck whatever you decide.

Given these circumstances, if your contract has the I's dotted and the T's crossed, small claims is the way to go here. I'd just show up, pick the car up, document everything and then serve him with court papers. It may take a while, or maybe not, depending on where you live but in the long run you'll feel a lot better about it. The relationship with this guy will only go downhill and get worse. When he slaps a lousy paint job on your car and hands you a bill for the "EXTRA" work he did, now he has you over a barrel, plus your car is still in his possesion. I'd cut my losses right now while your on the good side of the contract. Good luck!

Precisely, and to enforce a $100 a day penalty NOW, without it fully being stated on the Contract, you're out of gas, and if you attempt it, he'll either hold your car until full payment is made and/or take YOU to Court.

If it's not in writing about the agreed finish "time," he still does have some expectation to provide you with the finished product within a "reasonable" amount of time. Of course, that time period has to be considered by a Judge of the Court.

Had he promised you all those payments to be made upon the different stages of completion verbally, you have no written proof of what was to be paid, when and the cost. How will you convince a Judge about the time frame, the payments and the discount unless it's in writing? In Civil Court, the burden of proof is on you to provide the preponderance of evidence to win your case.

"TRUST NO ONE"

I know, that's a lot of bad news, but at least you know what you're up against.

Best of Luck!

While I'm sorry to hear this, I was in a similiar situation..similiar. I bought my car while it was still in the Body Shop. The previous owner had made a deal with the Shop Owner. I talked with him and he agreed to start the work when I brought the front fender in; old one was shot.

Anyway, after a few weeks I went to check the progress on the car and they had done nothing with it. So, I talk to the owner and told him that I dropped off the fender last week. This was a Friday, I showed up again on Monday and the car was in the same spot. I went back on Wednesday and Friday again...not touched. So, I go back Monday and asked him again, but this time in the lobby of the Body Shop Office. He tells me he will start on it tomorrow. I come back the next day and they are indeed working on the car.

So, I go back every two days and sometimes daily to check on the car. This went on for about 2 months. I stand around, ask questions and get to know all the guys. I bring them Coffee and sometimes doughnuts.

So, to make a short story great (for me) I bought a lot of Coffee & Doughnuts, talked a lot of BS and my car was done in 3 months. I even helped put my car back together, which they all appreciated I'm sure.

Maybe going down every day, if you can, talking to the guy(s) and offering to help will speed the process along? I know you paid for your service, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

if you really think it's lack of funds for material, here's what'd i'd do, i would make an appt. to shoot the car, show up with material, watch them shoot the car, then make an appt. to paint the ride, show up with material, and watch them shoot it. if this is not saticfactory to them, then it's laywer time. by the way, subtract cost of material from end bill. this should make everybody happy, he's already got his $, and you want your car finished. the second you get attitude, pull the car and file......

Pull the car,I've never heard of a story like this ending up well.

Frank hit the nail on the head,sounds like he underbid the job just for the cash which as we all know is long gone.
He'll either do a half-ass job which you'll have to fork over even more $$$ to correct or it'll just sit and gather dust while the small insurance jobs he takes in keep him afloat...choice is yours.

Go and get it before the doors are locked and your car is part of a lien.:yes:

First off I want to thank all of you who posted, and offered your wisdom, and knowledge in this matter. I particularly want to thank Frank for the wonderful post, and taking the time to talk to me via the phone about the current situation. I finally came to terms with the thousands of dollars I would lose, and made my mind up to go get the car, before it got even uglier. I had a flatbed on stand by,had two friends going to meet me, to help move parts. I walked in first to talk to the owner, unbeknowst to him I had friends, and a flat bed minutes away. He apoligized for being late, appreciated my patience, said the car will be in primer this week, and will be painted in two weeks. We had a good conversation where I explained my postion, and he said the car will look even better because it will not be rushed. At this point, I figured what it seven more days, if it is primer, we move on. If it is not, we come and pull the car. I discreetly waved off the flat bed, and my friends, and am confident we will see progress this week. I will keep all interested updated as to progress. He has his last chance, lets see what he does with it. I would rather have the car late, and salvage this deal, than start over and be in the hole several k.

Be sure to get there every day and make sure something is really being done. Don't take a chance on getting screwed and losing your car. If they don't get working on it, get it out. You better be setting on that place. This guy has strung you along for awhile and might still be doing it.

i agree; stay on it... DAILY. You don't need to harass him, but you can certainly let him know you're going to drop by to keep a pulse on the progress... snap a few pics, etc..

Good luck - like others have said, these things don't usually end well --- I hope your car is the exception to the rule.

-b

Do your self a favor.....talk to another shop far enough away, that they dont know each other..Pull the car out, have a flat bed and a cop with you...Sue the body shop owner for non compliance, he will probable have to close down, get a judgement against him, you still wont get a dime....get the damm lawyer...you will feel great..been there and won

Well I say you talk to the guy and see what the real deal is. With the way the economy is right now. You cant afford to loose thousands of dollars right now. I think a lot of people are reading this post and thinking your out the money you gave them. Are you sure they wouldnt refund your money if you asked for it back?

Keeping him on the short leash for a week may not hurt at this point but stay on him. Hope it all works out for you!:thumbsup: Keep us posted!

Why do I think this is going to end very badly?

You probably should have followed through with picking up your car while you had the help there with you.

Good talking with you Bigsky. As the others have said, I would eat onions and breath down his neck dailey. I really wish you all the luck.

Also, on another note. I had someone PM me that thought my joke about the stripper with a meth habit was in pour taste and I should applogize to the bodyman. Well first off, in case anyone thought for a second I was serious, (I doubt many of you thought I was serious, I don't even know who this bodyman is) I was simply making light of a bad situation and trying to inject some smiles into the situation.

Second, appoligize to someone screwing one of our fellow members.......................Not a chance!

By about Wednesday morning your gut will help you make the decision. Accepting any further excuses at this point will only increase your chances of the loss being greater than it is.

Sounds like he fed you just enough crap to get you off his back that day. I'm guessing you will be back at square one in a few days. You will probably have to "talk tough" and mention a lawyer, along with an ultimatum to get his @$$ in gear. If that don't get immediate results, it's rollback time.

Frank, that was a TC moderator who emailed you, and afterwards I removed the comment about the bodyman's wife being *...............................*
That could cause issues for the site (if names are posted later) and we don't need to try and defend such a comment as being a joke.
This is pretty standard policy here, not singling anyone out. I"m not going to get into a batch of emails with a super choked husband over something we do not have all the facts for.

Just stay on his butt, thats a lot of money to be out. I wish you the best in getting an acceptable paint job from this guy, if he gets to annoyed you will get a "Maaco" job. But that may be better than nothing and no refund.

learn how to do it yourself

My wife always wonders why I try to do everything myself.

I would check with him everyday right now in person with a camera to take pictures of the progress or no progress. If anything it will make him worry about what your up to. I know the bodyshop I first took my 69 Chevelle to suckered me for about 2,500.00 plus kept the car in a body shop prison for about 13 months.

That was about 5 years ago. I finally got paint on it at a reputable place that had it for about 5 months. If they would have got on it and stayed on just my car they could have got it done in about 3 or 4 weeks. With collision stuff coming in and other stuff coming in it took a lot longer. Cost me $4900.00 altogether not counting the dang $2500 I ate at the other place.

When they got the car in their place I already stripped the car to bare metal and primered it. Had NOS fenders already, repo trunk lid, original 1/4's had one hole the size of a quarter in it. The car was completely stripped of all weatherstripping, chrome trim, front and rear glass, wiring, interior and drive train.

Here is a list what they done for that kind of money.

Straightened hail dings on top.
Fixed dent in front of the passenger door.
Removed door glass.
Removed doors and stripped jams
Bead blasted & painted hood hinges and latch
Bead blasted door hinges and rebushed.
Stripped top of firewall area and painted, plus top of the dash.
Primer and more primer and more primer until it was straight.
Aligned all panels.
Painted package tray area on top and underneath
Painted all jam areas with panels off the car
Chromabase paint and clear.
Wet sand and buff after I get the car running.

I know they done a lot more than what they had on the reciept but they did not bust their butt on a set deadline. I did not want to rush them too much but I did go out there once a week with my camera and took pictures of the progress just to let them know I was documenting the work being done. Plus on some visits I would bring some cash in and get a written reciept on what had been done. I am satisfied with the work they done for the money that I gave them.

I wish I had the $2500 back from the other place that I thrown away now. I could replace the interior with that cash. I learned a lesson on the first one. Get references, get references. Not just a couple. The place that finally applied my paint job were all too happy to give me references of their past work. I found out they charged those people an arm and a leg more than mine.

I had great success with a local guy near Webster, NY. Bill & Chris at B&C Restorations worked with me and let me do some prep work and they did the 'meat and potatoes stuff that I just didn't have the talent to do.

I took the car apart and got it to the guy who media blasted it and then delivered it to the painters and they worked their magic.

They were right up front with how much it would cost and delivered at stelar looking car.

Wonder if anything got done on this car?

It is like so many that so much effort and support has been given and we get right up to the end and hear no more. It is amazing how many drop out of site.

I'm kinda wondering myself. It has been a week. Your body guy either progressed on your car or fed you somemore bull. What happened this week?

hasn't even been a week yet?

learn how to do it yourself

My wife always wonders why I try to do everything myself.


Hey Andy! WE all wonder why you try to do everything yourself! :D :beers:

To be fair, the guy might not have taken time out to get back on this subject. But his painter was supposed to be back to work last Monday and he was supposed to start seeing results. It is true that we a lot of guys post for info and tell about what they are doing, buying, re-building or whatever and then they never follow up. Obviously a lot of talkers.

Wonder what the percentages are of doer's and talker's on here. In my local hot rodding group, it's about 30% doer's, 50% talkers and 20% are buyers!

I consider a doer somebody that has a project and actually got it done or works on it religiously. A talker is somebody that has a junk car out back somewhere or in storage somewhere and has all the knowledge in the world (according to them), but they never do anything or turn a wrench. The buyers are made up of guys that can't do anything, but really want a car. Buyers also include guys that can do it all, but are lucky enough to be able to buy a complete car they like and can use, because time is factor for them.

Then there are the Barrett Jackson guys which are not really a part of this hobby as most of us know it. Not sure where they belong!

The reason I like to do it all myself is because of money and I have no patience waiting for interior people, mechanics, bodymen, electrical people, sandblasters and all the other people who don't know how to take a job and get it done quickly.

hasn't even been a week yet?

Original post Jan 22nd. Last post stating he had another talk with his body man Jan 24th. Today Jan31st. Exactly one week.

OK...Lots of advice. Only you can decide which is right for you. Lawyer? Maybe, but some guys work very casually and lawyers really don't intimidate them. $100 off for every Day? That could piss him off and he does have your car!

I think i would go talk to him and try to find out when it will be done. NO more money. I might go as far as to buy the paint and deduct the cost from the final bill. Don't buy any generic mats like primer that could on someone else's car.

This is a perfect example of why Classic owners need to go to established Resto shops for your work. It does cost more, but you will have less headaches.

Never Price shop!

learn how to do it yourself

My wife always wonders why I try to do everything myself.


Andy,... there are some things a married man should not be doing alone! That sounds to me like your wife is complaining!

UPDATE.. OK Class settle down, settle down, I have returned to give another update in the broken contract story. I did stop by the shop on Wednesday like the painter asked me to and low and behold it was in etch primer. He asked me to stop back on Saturday (today) to see further progress. When I stopped today, it was in build primer. They will continue according to him to prep,and block the car this coming week, in order to shoot paint the week of the 9th. So far it appears that our little chat has helped matters. I for one am relieved to see the work finally progressing. Sometimes all it takes is a little communication. It is a month late, and he claims it wont cost me any more out of pocket cash to get it finished. I believe in his work ability, and at this point hate to admit it, but would be further ahead to shell out a couple of extra bucks to get it finished there, than move it and start over somewhere else. However if no progress was made on that car this week, it would have been pulled today. I will also keep those interested updated when it goes into basecoat, and offer pics. I appreciate everyone's concern, and advice. :thumbsup:

Glad to hear the good news!!! Stay on them!!!!:thumbsup:

I dont know what the weather has been like in your neck of the woods but when you get a lot of snow and ice storms auto accidents happen, shops get busy.
He just might have taken the gravy jobs before yours.

Just another point of view.

Hope it turns out for you.

Good news, I bet you were happy to see some paint on that car. Don't let up, keep stopping every day or two and keep the heat on. Hopefully another 2 weeks and you'll be done with the shop. keep stopping, don't announce it ahead of time.

UPDATE.. OK Class settle down, settle down, I have returned to give another update in the broken contract story. I did stop by the shop on Wednesday like the painter asked me to and low and behold it was in etch primer. He asked me to stop back on Saturday (today) to see further progress. When I stopped today, it was in build primer. They will continue according to him to prep,and block the car this coming week, in order to shoot paint the week of the 9th. So far it appears that our little chat has helped matters. I for one am relieved to see the work finally progressing. Sometimes all it takes is a little communication. It is a month late, and he claims it wont cost me any more out of pocket cash to get it finished. I have ability in his work, and at this point hate to admit it, but would be further ahead to shell out a couple of extra bucks to get it finished there, than move it and start over somewhere else. However if no progress was made on that car this week, it would have been pulled today. I will also keep those interested updated when it goes into basecoat, and offer pics. I appreciate everyone's concern, and advice. :thumbsup:


Glad to see you are thinking this way. It by no means makes it right in what has happened but focus on the big picture of getting your car back. You are playing the game very well. Excellent news!!

Well your guy has had another week, is he still progressing? Hope you are seeing some paint on your car. let us know how it's going.

I have learned a few things from this thread. I never knew of the teminology 'Ponzi Scheme' for what is happening with Big Sky's paint job. Very interesting.

5 pages and no response from the originator. He is posting elsewhere but no update here.
I would have thought this situation would take precedence.

Maybe his guy is working on it now and it doesn't have the urgency it did 2 weeks ago. they were supposed to get it blocked this week and start painting next week. With any luck, he may actually have it out of paint hell next week. Let's hope he gets it home and it is satisfactory. I hear all these stories on here of guys getting ripped and I hope our posts and stories can keep other guys from making the same mistake.

Guys, I have been stopping by the shop twice a week. In all fairness to the painter,after our converstaion, he did promise to paint it the week of the 9th, which I did put in a previous post,I also previously posted that when it is in basecoat I would offer an update, and some pics. That means sometime between now and Saturday.When I stopped by this past Saturday, he still claims it will be painted sometime this week. He did get some side work in, fortunately for me that means he now has some cash to buy my paint. Time will tell.

keep after him, keep stopping by not just when he expects you

Guys, I have been stopping by the shop twice a week. In all fairness to the painter,after our converstaion, he did promise to paint it the week of the 9th, which I did put in a previous post,I also previously posted that when it is in basecoat I would offer an update, and some pics. That means sometime between now and Saturday.When I stopped by this past Saturday, he still claims it will be painted sometime this week. He did get some side work in, fortunately for me that means he now has some cash to buy my paint. Time will tell.


Promises, promises.....:eek:

He did get some side work in, fortunately for me that means he now has some cash to buy my paint. Time will tell.

I guess thats good news. Means you arent the last guy in the ponzi scheme and someone after you will be left holding the bag. Scary stuff.

Promises, promises.....:eek:

I agree,miss this deadline and remove car...end of story.
We've all read too many of these stories and they never have a happy ending...

4 Days till put up, shut up, or bend over one more time.

This guys name is not Stretch Armstrong I hope.

The week of the 9th has come and gone. Anything he promised get done?

I was wondering the same thing...any updates?

Patience, grasshopper.... :yes:

Evidently the guy is right back where he started this thread at and is too embarrassed to admit it. This lesson keeps repeating itself. Youbetter really know the shop you are taking your car to or you can be assured you'll get screwed and probably give up on the car.

Now none of you guys really thought that the painter was going to keep his word this time did you,especially after he has broken his promises so many times in the past :D Was the car painted Saturday, nope. Am I happy about it, nope. I did have another conversation with him, (the last one I had got it in primer) He says it will get painted this week,:sad: then started talking about the bad weather, bla, bla, bla. We had two days of over 50 degrees last week, and one day of 63, when it was supposed to be painted. As much as I would like to pull the car, I have learned many times in life, sometimes you can shoot yourself in the foot, or cut your own nose off to spite your face, by doing something you want to do now, rather than waiting a little longer, and getting something done right. This painter is no different than many other people I deal with that will lie to my face, or sign a contract, and break it. I will sign on the dotted line, but my handshake, my word, and my looking you in the eye, is much stronger than the ink. Unfortantely we live in an upside down world, of liars, cheats, and deceptive people. It is simply a matter of values. Do I think the car will get done, yes, sometime between now, and March, time will tell. I realize many of you dont think it will get done, and the rest of you would have already pulled the car, I am still hoping for a painted car. I can write two pages of what someone can learn from this kind of experience, however at this point, I just want a painted car.

I wish you luck, I hope the car is painted to your satisfaction.

You have already shown this guy much more patience than I could.

Good luck, I hope he hasn't been paid completely yet. I think I would write him a bad to check for the final payment when I picked up the car and leave him hanging awhile.
Let him spend his time talking to lawyers for a few days and just keep promising to cover the check.

I guess you WILL NOT refer this guy to anyone? Sounds like this guy could make a preacher cuss!

I still think you are doing the best thing with your current situation. Putting a car in another shop after pulling it out of another sounds easier on paper than it really is. I can already see the next painter wanting to strip off the other guys work so he has a "fresh canvas". You have some options to rectify the situation with him after you get the car back but lets save that for your celebration thread (hopefuly).

I still think you are doing the best thing with your current situation. Putting a car in another shop after pulling it out of another sounds easier on paper than it really is. I can already see the next painter wanting to strip off the other guys work so he has a "fresh canvas". You have some options to rectify the situation with him after you get the car back but lets save that for your celebration thread (hopefuly).


I think that right now its my only option. As much as it annoys me, you are absolutely correct about a new painter wanting to restrip the car, and want 7k to for a finished product. I will lose everything, time, money, and only more aggravation dealing with another shop.The fact that its cold, snowy, and I cant drive the car anyway, helps keep my sanity. If this was going on during the summer months, I might have already called Oktunes to join me for a roadtrip to a bodyshop to pick up a car :D

Now none of you guys really thought that the painter was going to keep his word this time did you,especially after he has broken his promises so many times in the past :D Was the car painted Saturday, nope. Am I happy about it, nope. I did have another conversation with him, (the last one I had got it in primer) He says it will get painted this week,:sad: then started talking about the bad weather, bla, bla, bla. We had two days of over 50 degrees last week, and one day of 63, when it was supposed to be painted. As much as I would like to pull the car, I have learned many times in life, sometimes you can shoot yourself in the foot, or cut your own nose off to spite your face, by doing something you want to do now, rather than waiting a little longer, and getting something done right. This painter is no different than many other people I deal with that will lie to my face, or sign a contract, and break it. I will sign on the dotted line, but my handshake, my word, and my looking you in the eye, is much stronger than the ink. Unfortantely we live in an upside down world, of liars, cheats, and deceptive people. It is simply a matter of values. Do I think the car will get done, yes, sometime between now, and March, time will tell. I realize many of you dont think it will get done, and the rest of you would have already pulled the car, I am still hoping for a painted car. I can write two pages of what someone can learn from this kind of experience, however at this point, I just want a painted car.


You should simply shoot him instead.

If the weather was better, go get the car and paint it at home!! Let's hope the guy really gets you done the next week or two. Just keep stopping in there and making yourself a nuisance!

DO NOT GIVE ANY MORE MONEY!!!!
He will suck you dry and still not get er done.
You are right about business people being liars, cheats, etc.
My word has and always will be good as gold.
I really hope things work out for you. If not, do as I did. Take 5 buddies, put it on a trailer, buy a compressor, run air lines with water traps, and paint it yourself.
Body shop prisons..........disgrace to the profession and way too many of them ripping people off.
Shameful

**UPDATE *** From Bad to Worse

I stopped by the shop today, my last visit was on Friday when the painter promised that the other two side jobs would be gone, and work on my car would resume. Both projects were still there :sad: and my car sat in the corner.I reminded him that March was knocking on the door. He could tell that I was not happy, and finally admitted to what I have known all along. His words, one of his helpers has quit, he claims because he neede more money, in reality he just cant afford to pay him his paycheck, an ex- girlfriend is after him, probably more money, he is about to lose the shop,(lack of rental funds) and says he apoligizes about the broken completion dates, and wont make any more, because he cant keep them. He was awful stressed today when I arrived, and I have seen the handwriting on the wall for the end of his business. I really feel sorry for the guy behind me who has had his car in bare metal for the last three months, and is expecting an April completion date. :noway: What he doesnt know is that I am just hoping to get it a little further along before I pull it. If I can get it blocked and in sealer it would help me out greatly. I will not take it to another shop, for someone to start all over again. If I have to I will finish it myself, or hopefully find another painter who will paint over an already prepped canvas. At least he finally came clean. This has the potential to now turn out very ugly. His word is now as worthless to me, as our contract was to him.

PULL IT OUT NOW BEFORE THE DOORS GET LOCKED. I bought a commercial building two years ago full of the last tenants stuff (5000 SF of desks crappy computers, etc.) The guy owed taxes and I could not even move his stuff out until they were paid ($167 for property tax on the stuff). I checked with the IRS and he was clean but they said that if he owed them they could also keep anything until it was proven it was not a company assett, which takes time, IRS moves very slowly. Same if he goes into bankruptcy, the trustee now controls the stuff until he determines it is not a company assett. Pick it up, along with any materials your paid for (primer, sealer, tape, etc.) or it could be sitting there subject to whom ever has access to the building for months or years. Once the bad guys notice the building is not being occupied or used they will break in to see what is left to steal...

I'd pull the car, "Yesterday!". If the writing is on the wall and he is financially strained, with possibility of the business going under, get your car out of his shop. Think what would happen if the landlord throws the guy out and the guy owes the landlord money? That's right, doors will be locked and your car will be held capitive.

What a crappy situation. I wish you luck. Makes me want to paint my car myself. Even if it came out like looking like junk, I could only be made at myself.

Now it sounds like you have the story as to what is going on. Him not keeping his word is not right but owning a business right now is tough also. People are constantly holding their hands out and at the end of the day a small operation can have a tough go of it to make ends meat. There is one heck of a long list of people who have tried the paint and body work at a small level and failed. But I have been in paint prison and have seen this go wrong for people whom have personal property in a business which is about to have the padlock put on it and it ain't pretty. I recently cleaned out a printing business and got things for pennies on the dollar and the owner of the property had not one leg to stand on so it can happen and real quick. If you think the guy is being truthful about the situation, GET IT OUT OF THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So sorry to hear that. I agree you better get the car out quick. You think it is bad now, think what it would be like to have your car locked up in there and you are talking to an attorney, a bank or whoever trying to see if you can even get it back. If the guy is into you for money on work he didn't complete, tell him you will take tools if he can't pay you. Do this when you pick up the car and if he refuses, tell him you really don't want to file a suit and cause him trouble. I wouldn't waste my time doing that, but it might get a you a spray gun, sander, maybe even an air compressor or something if he actually shuts down. Of course, if he is forced to leave, he may sell some stuff for a ridiculous price if he has no where to take it, needs cash really bad, or knows he will lose it anyway. Seems this story almost always comes out the same. Sure sorry for your luck.

On second thought, get a hauler there today and get that car home before it is too late, You know the shop is closing and the guy owes money and can't pay his bills. If he told you today, it is probably about to come to a head. GET YOUR CAR.

On second thought, get a hauler there today and get that car home before it is too late, You know the shop is closing and the guy owes money and can't pay his bills. If he told you today, it is probably about to come to a head. GET YOUR CAR.

And any tools you can throw inside it on your way out.

**UPDATE *** From Bad to Worse

an ex- girlfriend is after him, probably more money, he is about to lose the shop,.

So I was wrong, it was a EX girlfriend, LOL! Just trying to make lite of a bad situation.

You better go get it before it is locked up. He alreayd gave you a wanring shot accross you bow, he ain't gonna touch it no more now that he come clean.

Forget about getting your car blocked and in sealer. This guys world is caving in on him. If you think your in a bad position now, what happens if they padlock the place by Friday?? You know he probably owes back rent, I wouldn't wait any longer! I'd be there tonight or tomorrow morning with a flat bed. At this point, I just hope you get the car back in time before the padlock shows up.

Or worse scenario. The guy's getting desperate and desperate people sometimes torch their business to collect insurance money. Go get it NOW.

I'd make a bet with you.
The shop will still be there one year from now and the owner will still be telling lies to people to get money up front and do 1/2 the work already paid for. oh, and some of those cars there now will still be there.
Bad management and spending your money living a higher life style than he can afford as soon as he gets it and then feeling like he is working for free afterwards.
I was bit three times by three different places.

bigskycountry; Listen to what the majority are telling you and remove your car now while you still have one. The majority tried to urge you that way three weeks ago but you were still hoping for a fairy tail ending. You had a feeling this would end bad or you never would have posted about this problem in the first place. If you would have removed your car three weeks ago you would have been three weeks closer to a satisfactory ending.

Herbie above might be right on this guy as well, but who really knows. One thing is for sure, he flat out told you no more promises on deadlines, so right off the bat you know your car is just going to sit there. At this point he's probably hoping you pick it up, one less pissed off face coming to his shop every couple of days. I'd cut my losses and move on, this guy is a loser!!!

So walking away from the initial money paid to this guy, as was suggested three weeks ago, looks pretty good now, ey? It's all about perspective. Your perspective three weeks ago was "gee, I already gave some cash...hate to walk away from it" etc etc....

Looking at it today, removing your car would have been a smart move, as we were telling you....and believe me, some of us were giving you advice after having been through similar deals.

Fast forward to now: go get your car and chalk up the monetary loss as a life lesson on how not to get a car painted. As time goes by and you get some MORE perspective on this situation, you will be glad you did.

Pee on his desk and steal his stapler.

**UPDATE *** From Bad to Worse

I stopped by the shop today, my last visit was on Friday when the painter promised that the other two side jobs would be gone, and work on my car would resume. Both projects were still there :sad: and my car sat in the corner.I reminded him that March was knocking on the door. He could tell that I was not happy, and finally admitted to what I have known all along. His words, one of his helpers has quit, he claims because he neede more money, in reality he just cant afford to pay him his paycheck, an ex- girlfriend is after him, probably more money, he is about to lose the shop,(lack of rental funds) and says he apoligizes about the broken completion dates, and wont make any more, because he cant keep them. He was awful stressed today when I arrived, and I have seen the handwriting on the wall for the end of his business. I really feel sorry for the guy behind me who has had his car in bare metal for the last three months, and is expecting an April completion date. :noway: What he doesnt know is that I am just hoping to get it a little further along before I pull it. If I can get it blocked and in sealer it would help me out greatly. I will not take it to another shop, for someone to start all over again. If I have to I will finish it myself, or hopefully find another painter who will paint over an already prepped canvas. At least he finally came clean. This has the potential to now turn out very ugly. His word is now as worthless to me, as our contract was to him.


Dam wimmin' :mad:

Rip out his Adam's apple :D and remove your car from that place.

So walking away from the initial money paid to this guy, as was suggested three weeks ago, looks pretty good now, ey? It's all about perspective. Your perspective three weeks ago was "gee, I already gave some cash...hate to walk away from it" etc etc....

Looking at it today, removing your car would have been a smart move, as we were telling you....and believe me, some of us were giving you advice after having been through similar deals.

Fast forward to now: go get your car and chalk up the monetary loss as a life lesson on how not to get a car painted. As time goes by and you get some MORE perspective on this situation, you will be glad you did.

For sakes Bruce, he's feeling bad enough as it is and you post that ? What the hell is wrong with you? :confused: My God, don't you think he's aware of that already?

What kind of advice are you going to offer him next, jump out of a 10-story window? :eek:

For sakes Bruce, he's feeling bad enough as it is and you post that? What the hell is wrong with you? :confused: My God, don't you think he's aware of that already?

What kind of advice are you going to offer him next, jump out of a 10-story window? :eek:

Listen, we are all grown ups here, we don't need to coddle anyone. He asked for advice, we gave it. It's called tough love, and I wish I would have had someone giving it to me straight back when my painter missed his deadlines. :beers:

I appreciate everyones advise,PM's, and phone calls, you guys are the best, except for Bruce :D. After stewing about it some more March 1st is in 11 days, he wont have the option of working on it any more by then, it will be gone. I rounded up an friend that has an enclosed trailer. I also figured he will have the shop at least until the first of the month, he may still be there a year from now who knows. There are two cars behind mine, some other car enthusiasts are also not going to be happy in the coming months either. I am trying to get the car to another shop that will paint over the existing work lined up, thus I dont have to move the car twice. I will move it from the existing shop, straight to the new shop. I even called Maaco today to get a quote :(. Top of the line PPG paint job, over existing work,clear, jambs, stripes, wet sand, buff $1,700. I will be out another grand for material anyway, and the $700.00 is not worth my time and aggravation painting it myself. He wants me to stop back on Friday, at this point if I can get him to block the car, before it leaves,I would call it a miracle. Something just scares me about the word Maaco, and bodywork in the same sentence. Its going to be an interesting weekend, I have a lot of work, and prep ahead of me.

Bigskycountry,
First off I am sorry to hear of your dilemma and good luck.
Maaco is not that bad if all of the prep work is done and all parts off the car. Look at it this way, they spray for a living and have the techniques/ovens. They just do not take the time to tape correctly etc....
Pay for 3 coats of clear so you can cut and buff or have it done and you will be satisfied with the results. I have seen some very nice Maaco jobs at lots of car shows.

Good Luck

I think most shops would be willing to paint over the existing work I know are shop would, we just cant put a lifetime warrenty on it since we didnt do the work or know whats under it. hopefully the work that has been done already is good. please stay away from maaco there idea of a nice job is alot different than most places. I would recomend hitting up some of your local collsion shops most of them could probobly work it in and there quality level will be much better than maaco. you may pay more than maaco but you will end up with a better job. just look at the compleated cars in the parking lot. at a good collsion shop the car will be repaired to pre loss condition and you wont be able to tell what has been fixed from what hasn't, then go to maaco and check out the cars in the lot and see what you think but you probobly wont be impressed. trying to have a bad maaco job fixed down the road could end up costing more than bitting the bullet and paying someone more money to do it right now.

just my .02 cents I hope everything goes well and you end up with a nicley painted car

BigSky.... I pulled my car after 5 months of very little progress. Towed it to another painter who said 3 months, no more. That painter did a nice job, but took 5 months.

Listen, we are all grown ups here, we don't need to coddle anyone. He asked for advice, we gave it. It's called tough love, and I wish I would have had someone giving it to me straight back when my painter missed his deadlines. :beers:

Tough love? Seems you're glad he got screwed because he chose the wrong path because it happened to you before too.

Now, you listen, true, we gave advice, but now you're going to say, "nahnah-na-nah-nahhhhh....we told you so." Doesn't sound grown up to me. :p Are you going to suggest he go to his room without eating dinner?

BigSky, I've followed this thread with great interest for the last 3 weeks because I hope to get my 67 painted soon. I've gotta say your experience has been a real eye-opener for me, and I'm preparing to spend a whole bunch more money to get my car painted at a reputable shop where the results will be measured in a few weeks.....not many months. I've withheld any comment because plenty of folks have already given advice. However, this guy has already given his Mea Culpa, he's not gonna do any more to your car. If his story has a shred of truth, he could be out of business tomorrow, and you could be stuck with....nothing. You sound a lot like myself, a guy who trusts too much and hopes against hope for a good outcome. At the ripe old age of 55, I've come to realize there are people who'll ride you like a government mule as long as you put up with it. Cut your losses and go get your car while you still can. Good luck, brother.

GO GET YOUR CAR NOW!!!! I don't know why you assume he will be there until the first. maybe he is way behind on his rent and has to be out of there by the first. If so he's not gonna do anything on your car he will be busy packing up in the middle of the night. I know a guy who took a running driving 66 to a shop gave them money guy went broke & took off owner of 66 had to get a sheriff to go with him to get the car. He got most of it back couldn't find most pieces ended up selling it as a project. I know it sucks but GO GET IT.

Wonder if this car is still in bodyshop limbo?

Like you I would like an update.

Inquiring Minds.....


Dan

My dad had a '74 Monte Carlo, bought it when it was in primer and took it to MAACO in Louisville; back in '96. They did a pretty good job on that car, and my dad sold it about 4years later and it still looked darn good. The funny part is, he sold it to my MOM! She washed it every few months and after about 6 months of her owning it, it started to fade. She eventually traded the Monte and I have no clue where it's at now....probably been painted and running around Lexington, KY right now. Not all MAACO shops are idiots.

either this guy's car is locked up in a closed down shop and he is embarrassed to tell us or he's had to take it home. Or, he no longer reads Chevelle Tech!

either this guy's car is locked up in a closed down shop and he is embarrassed to tell us or he's had to take it home. Or, he no longer reads Chevelle Tech!


He did say in his last post that he gave the shop till March 1st. By my calander it`s still Febuary. Lets give him a little time before we start jumping to conclusions.

He did say in his last post that he gave the shop till March 1st. By my calander it`s still Febuary. Lets give him a little time before we start jumping to conclusions.

True, dat....but the 1st is only 4 days away....

He did say in his last post that he gave the shop till March 1st. By my calander it`s still Febuary. Lets give him a little time before we start jumping to conclusions.

16 oz. curls and jumping to conclusions is the only exercise I get!!!

Dan

pee on his desk and steal his stapler.

:D may not help with the car, but it'll help you!

16 oz. curls and jumping to conclusions is the only exercise I get!!!

Dan

You need a bigger beer mug!

Well........I guess we will not get to hear the conclusion. I can only suspect the situation did not get any better. Very unfortunate for the car owner but should serve notice not to take anything for granted. The slide in this economy is going to make situations like this more common as so many people were operating close when it was good and will become apparent as they run out of money.

No doubt the outcome wasn't good and the car owner didn't want to come on here and admit he screwed up and he also didn't want to come here and lie about it. Let's hope he at least got his car back in one piece. Shame guys have to go thru this stuff.

Don't be so hard on BigSky, Matt :) He has already admitted to his mistake in selecting that painter, and even tried to anticipate problems with a specific contract. Can't do much more than that. I'm sure he's looking forward to posting progress when there is something to report. I suspect he is making progress towards getting his car finished. I've been in his position before and had to pull my car for lack of progress after 5 months, so I can relate somewhat.

sure hope he picked up the car....

Mike, I don't mean to be hard on the guy, I just figured if he was lucky only had to take the car home unfinished, he may be reluctant to say so. That's all right, better then lying about what happened. If his car is locked up in a closed up shop or worse, I'm sure he doesn't want to come on here and say, hey you guys were right, I should have got my car out several weeks ago, now it is locked up in the guys shop. I probably wouldn't post that if it happened to me.

Let's hope that he offered more money, or did something to get this "painter" back on his car and maybe he will be here in a couple days to say his car is painted and back home.
I sure hope he has a good outcome.

Last Activity: Feb 24th, 09 9:24 PM

Maybe he got it back and is putting it together???? Hasn't been on for a while.....

I hope he got it back. I would hate to see a padlock on the place on March 1st.

Don't be so hard on BigSky, Matt :) He has already admitted to his mistake in selecting that painter, and even tried to anticipate problems with a specific contract. Can't do much more than that. I'm sure he's looking forward to posting progress when there is something to report. I suspect he is making progress towards getting his car finished. I've been in his position before and had to pull my car for lack of progress after 5 months, so I can relate somewhat.


Yep, I was in the same position. My scenario ended up with me getting the car finished and lets hope he did too. Either way, I hope he gets his car done how he wants it one way or another. It is truly amazing about how the paint and body part of restorations is the stigna that ends so many projects as well as prevents so many from getting started.

John, I can feel for BigSky as well. The problem here is all too often people shop price and look at the bottom line of cost compared to what really needs to be done. I realize different parts of the country have different pricing BUT, body work and paint on any Chevelle aren't below 5K. Any decent paint job I have ever had to do is 10K +, never mind any body work. He just got sucked into a shop looking for a deposit to keep the door open. Sorry to hear it, but it happens all too often. This story if for nothing else, should be a red flag for future owners needing body work and a paint job!! Chevelles aren't CHEAP to paint!!!! Just my .02 on it!!!

no offense but that doesn't seem true at all, I've seen plenty of great paint jobs that were done for under $5k with some body work

chevelles (at lest the later years) are pretty simple cars body line wise, to think there's an absolute need to spend $10k plus on paint is pretty ridiculous unless you plan on going over every single panel with a magnifying glass looking for imperfections even the naked eye can't see

Your not going to get a spotless, waveless, dirtless, orange-peel-less, mirror-like finish for less than $5,000.00 unless your good friends with someone or trading something for the work.
On the other hand if you just want something that looks good at the local cruz and you don't mind the little remarks about your car having a couple dirts specs in the middle of your hood or your hood and deck stripes that aren't straight you'll get by for less than 5,000.00.

no offense but that doesn't seem true at all, I've seen plenty of great paint jobs that were done for under $5k with some body work

chevelles (at lest the later years) are pretty simple cars body line wise, to think there's an absolute need to spend $10k plus on paint is pretty ridiculous unless you plan on going over every single panel with a magnifying glass looking for imperfections even the naked eye can't see

There is no doubt that you can get a car sprayed for under 10k but just like everything else in life every case is different. The average car will need some form of metal replacement. And body and paint is something that most people will not tackle. I have done enough of it to realize I do not have the right mindset to do it but I am only speaking for myself. And the cost of material has gone through the roof as everything else has that jeopardizes the enviroment. I paid 6500.00 5 years ago for body and paint and I would fully expect to pay almost double that now. I would fully expect a body and paint shop to be atleast 70 percent additional burn rate per hour on top of the wage the guy behind the gun or d/a makes. If you just think of a rough estimate of hours to prep a car with some basic work in todays market you will hit 5k real quick. Unless an owner either has some connections or has the ability to do it themselves, it ain't cheap. Just thinking out loud. In fact, I would have paid 10k to a shop that would have given me exactly what I got without the constant aggravation required to get the car finished. To those of you who get the premium price for the premium service, kudos to you.

**Another Update***


First off I did not realize that so many of you were still interested in this thread.

As of two weeks ago the side work dried up for the painter, and he was forced to return working on my car for the cash. I have been helping, every day, including Sunday for the last two weeks. Now you know why I have not been posting, I come home from working my full time job, and the bodyshop, and I go to bed.I am helping because I want my car back. We settled on a price that will cost me $300.00 more than the original contract price to get the car done. I am satisfied with that, considering the caliber of work that has been done to the car. He bid this job way to low, just to get some upfront cash to stay afloat a few months ago, now he is forced to finish it because he is desperate for the final payment, and needs it to survive the month. The car is supposed to be finished this weekend, and hopefully ready to roll. That is when he receives his final payment. Its a great feeling to finally be in control of this situation. I now have the upper hand, and the final payment. It has been a long time coming, and after working on this car the last two weeks, and talking to him, he bid this job WAY too low, to make any real profit, it was just a job to hopefully play the money shell game with for awhile. I will post back when it leaves.

Good to hear some progress!

Good to hear! Glad things are turning out ok for you!:thumbsup:

Great news! When a car is lost or stopped because of troubles like you ran into, we all feel the pain. Being there to prod the guy everyday is the best thing you can do. If you have to pay a little more, but get a result that satisfies you it is well worth it. We are all glad it is working out and expect pictures when you get it home!!

So let me get this straight your paying the guy for you to work on your car?

I'm glad that things are working out for you. Yeah, we are all interested. Keep us up to date.
Post pictures when you can.
$300 more and pay when completed and you helping to keep it going..............small price to pay vs aggravation of finding another shop and maybe going the same story again.
I'm proud for you.
Now...you can learn to do interior work, installing trim, and all that.

jocww -

;) No, he is paying the painter to teach him how to do bodywork and paint.....

So let me get this straight your paying the guy for you to work on your car?


No, he is paying an insurance policy with a little cash and some sweat equity. It sonds like you almost have a resolution. Keep it up and lets hope you get the car done!!

If he's getting good results, better to pay a little more and be there to work and be sure things look right then to tow an unfinished car home.

Plus in addition to getting his car painted he's getting some hands on experience of the process. If it was me that would also be an oppurtunity to take tons of pics.

That is when he receives his final payment.

Final payment.....load it up and tell him you forgot the cash and you'll be back to pay him.....then let him come and hunt for his money for a few weeks/months....:yes:

The car was painted today, and will be in clearcoat tomorrow :hurray: I could hardly contain myself when I saw it. This guy is a fantastic bodyman, unfortanetly not the best businessman. I have documented the whole process with photos, and will be posting them in the future, when it comes home. The caliber of paintwork on this car would rival one of double the price.I am quite happy with the results so far.You guys are the best, I read these posts, and feel like Im part of a great bunch of guys, who could only understand what its like to go through something like this. Hopefully someone will read these posts years from now, and gain wisdom on the good, and the bad of restoration shops. Never put half down up front, make payments as the job progresses. By not doing the latter, you lose all leverage, and the shop loses all interest in the car.

:thumbsup:

:thumbsup:

Great news, we await the photos and are glad you got these results. Great you got a quality job in the end and not just some paint squirted on the car. The guy must have had a hard time with his conscience.

Good for you guy. I gotta admit you've got more patience than I could muster. Hope the clear-coat goes well, we're all anxious to see some pics.

That is great news! Looking forward to seeing the story in photos. This has been quite an ordeal and has helped who knows how many folks to understand the 'challenges' involved in getting a car painted. Thanks for following up with us, brother!

Dan

Looking forward to the pictures!

Looking forward to the pictures!

Me Too!!

I'm glad it worked out for you. Can't wait to see the pics. You hung in there when everyone including myself were telling you to pul the car. Turned out to be a good call on your part.

I agree with Randy. You've got the patience of Job. If someone jacked me around with my car like that I would have visited him with a baseball bat, taken the car and had him come to my house every night to finish it till it was done. And had him refund half my money.
It's great you kept a cool head and are getting your car done.....and it seems getting it done right :thumbsup:.

I'm glad it worked out for you. Can't wait to see the pics. You hung in there when everyone including myself were telling you to pull the car. Turned out to be a good call on your part.

Yep,hope it works out well for you,can't wait to see the pictures...what color did you go with again?

Final payment.....load it up and tell him you forgot the cash and you'll be back to pay him.....then let him come and hunt for his money for a few weeks/months....:yes:

And when he shows up at your door, tell him the cash is not available at that time and you'll call him when it is. Give him a "Thanks for stopping in," as you shut your door in his face. :D

Do we have pictures yet??
you are such a tease!

Dan

This is great news. I know what it means to eat crow but you are better off going this route of working with the painter and getting it done. And I look at it like if you know what you got is more than what you paid for certainly the aggravation can have a huge value on it but what is done is done. Get your car, pay him and be done with it. Trying to exact revenge will lead to no where and things can always get complicated in life real quick. People can give you advise on being spiteful but I have seen revenge go real wrong and it ain't worth it!!! When you get it home you will be so happy all the anger will be wisked away. Get that car together because good weather is around the corner.

Congratulations,

If you try some kind of payback, that just puts you down to his level. Be an upstanding person and finish the deal as expected. It never hurts to do what's right.

Pay him "back" by never saying his name again. Forgetting his phone number and never sending him any business.

Glad to see this thread didnt turn out like several others I have seen with this same sanario. Hope to see some pictures soon.:thumbsup:

I trust a body man about like I do my GOVERMENT..

Never found one to date that was honest.

The fact he hasn't posted in over a week isn't a good sign IMO. It was supposed to be cleared March 5. I'm thinking if everything went well and he was happy he'd be on here talking about it. Hope I'm wrong.

Several odd things about this. Now on the 11th page of discussion and never a pic or a name , town or state. I too hope the original poster ended up with satisfactory results but really hope all of this actually existed. The people here have really been interested and supportive.

The fact he hasn't posted in over a week isn't a good sign IMO. It was supposed to be cleared March 5. I'm thinking if everything went well and he was happy he'd be on here talking about it. Hope I'm wrong.

Von,

Patience, my son. :D :beers:

He has gone days without posting anything, so perhaps he's just tired or something came up. I'm willing to give him another week or so to learn how it all went down. ;)


-John

He's probably learning to cut and buff the clear as we speak... :D Probably won't see him for a few months while he's reassembling the car... :yes:

He's probably learning to cut and buff the clear as we speak... :D Probably won't see him for a few months while he's reassembling the car... :yes:


No truer words have been spoken. The car finally left the paint shop the beginning of this week, then it was off to the upholstery shop to have the vinyl top installed, on Thursday. It finally arrived back home today :hurray: Lots of work to do yet to the car to get it road worthy, buffing, and assembling, but I enjoy that part of the project. I have plenty of pics, and they will be coming as soon as I can get them up. The car was painted Mohave Gold, with white SS stripes. Thanks for all of your interest, and support.

Hey Bigsky, that's great news. Kudos to you for sticking it out. Post some pics ASAP!

Excellent!!

Love to see the photo story...

Dan

Sweet news...

Congratulations and don't forget the elbow grease. :)

I'm glad my fears weren't realized and that it worked out in the end. :) Looking forward to the pics.

Can't wait to see it.

Bigsky sent me a few pics....here they are....

Very nice.... was it worth the wait ? I'll bet it was.

Congrats :beers:

Lookin Good!!!

Glad you hung in there and leaned on that ****er!

The car looks great! :thumbsup:

Ah, yes. :thumbsup: