on a build sheet, what will a true SS car in 1969 show to authenticate it?

2th Farmer,
Can you see the Z25 RPO code? That is the SS Package. How about L34, L35 or L78? They are the engine sizes available on SS Models. Other than that how about paint code 72 OR 76? Those paint codes were only on SS models and it would have those #'s stamped on your cowl tag or trim tag.

Kevin
http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll150/ragdollbailey714/

I can for sure make out the L-35 V8 4bbl code. Is that enough to confirm a true SS?

I believe this was a 396 SS car only but there are guys on here that will confirm this for sure.
Was it an automatic? If so the TH4OO was only in the 396 cars.
Is the 7th digit in your vin by chance a 1? If so it is from Canada and you can have access to all original paperwork through GM Canada. Post the trim tag if you could not that it will prove or disprove.

Kevin

Good Luck

Thats a SS396/350 HP car.

I was under the impression that without the OEM motor on a 69
There was no way possible To ID car as a SS Till 72 ????
It would show up as a concours
The option packages were available on both cept for the BB

A 69 SS can be identified with original documentation (build sheet/Protect-O-Plate/Body Broadcast sheet/Trim sheet) or engine. Of course the restampers are getting better and the fake documents are seemingly more readily available these days. As mentioned if the Chevelle was sold or built in Canada documentation can be obtained, funny Canadian law about imports and exports and retaining the documentation. Some Canadian built chevelles also have the engine code on the trim tag, why GM in the U.S didn't follow their lead is a shame and a mystery for all of us. Unfortunately, if you have a 69 and no documentation or the original motor...as mentioned it may be impossible to tell if the SS option was on the body you have. Baltimore and Kansas used an L on the trim tag but it is NOT PROVEN to be related to the SS option at this time, as opposed to what some sellers may state as fact. Hope this helps Andy

on a build sheet, what will a true SS car in 1969 show to authenticate it?Agree with 2th Farmer, Z25 SS option code, L34, L35 or L78 engine code, or M40 TH400 code visible on the build sheet.

2th Farmer,
Can you see the Z25 RPO code? That is the SS Package. How about L34, L35 or L78? They are the engine sizes available on SS Models. Other than that how about paint code 72 OR 76? Those paint codes were only on SS models and it would have those #'s stamped on your cowl tag or trim tag.X2

Thats a SS396/350 HP car.
The L35 is the 325hp version, the 350hp version was RPO L34.

I was under the impression that without the OEM motor on a 69
There was no way possible To ID car as a SS Till 72 ????
It would show up as a concoursWhat would show up as a Concours? The Concours was an option on the Malibu 4-dr sport sedan (RPO ZJ6 Special Sport Sedan, 135/13669) as well as a model name on two station wagon series's - 13646 Concours and 13836/46 Concours Estate wagons.

The option packages were available on both cept for the BB:confused:

Speaking of the Canadians keeping records.... I just called Frank Zaporo 905-440-7636 and asked to send me a form to fill out to request info. I sent form back and it turned up no results as my car was a Baltimore car. Had to try just in case it was imported into Canada. They charge $12.43 US to do the search and he is sending me the complete engineering specs for the 69 Chevelles. That my friends is worth the money!

Good Luck

Speaking of the Canadians keeping records.... I just called Frank Zaporo 905-440-7636 and asked to send me a form to fill out to request info. I sent form back and it turned up no results as my car was a Baltimore car. Had to try just in case it was imported into Canada. They charge $12.43 US to do the search and he is sending me the complete engineering specs for the 69 Chevelles. That my friends is worth the money!

Good Luck

when I got my docs in 92 this service was free. I also got a "assemby line" printout showing 10-15 cars before/ahead of mine....

I was under the impression that without the OEM motor on a 69
There was no way possible To ID car as a SS Till 72 ????
It would show up as a concours
The option packages were available on both cept for the BB

LJ, what he's referring to is the ID for a "Canadian" produced car (assy plant "1"). If it was produced in Canada, the build records are available from GM Canada. The "1" doesn't mean its a SS, just that docs are available.

The L35 on the build sheet.

What is your engine code on the build sheet?

If so the TH4OO was only in the 396 cars.
Kevin

Good Luck
Incorrect. The only automatic available for 396 cars in 69-72 is a TH400.
A turbo400 is available as an option with any other drivetrain. There are members here who can validate this with their buildsheets who own non SS cars.

Incorrect. The only automatic available for 396 cars in 69-72 is a TH400.
A turbo400 is available as an option with any other drivetrain. There are members here who can validate this with their buildsheets who own non SS cars.Interesting. Unfortunately the Power Teams chart from the Restoration Kit lists (in one chart) both the TH350 & TH400 with the same moniker, Turbo Hydra-Matic and in another the same name with RPO M40 in parentheses for all engines but doesn't list the M38 TH350.

Hey....Dale got a new screen name. :thumbsup: First time I've noticed. ;)

Incorrect. The only automatic available for 396 cars in 69-72 is a TH400.
A turbo400 is available as an option with any other drivetrain. There are members here who can validate this with their buildsheets who own non SS cars.
I've heard that both the M40 and M38 codes were used for a Turbo 350 (in non-BB applications). But I believe there are some who swear their smallblock really did come from the factory with a Turbo 400. This is further complicated by the fact that two different option prices were listed for the M40 automatic, $190 and $221. The price listed for M38 is $220. If some non-SS drivetrains really came with a T400, I'm wondering what determined that trans over a T350. My guess is that would've been either the F40 HD suspension option, which included a 12 bolt diff even with the smallest engines, or the L48 300 hp 350 engine, or maybe a combination of both. My money would be on the F40.

Von....when I ordered my 300hp, 350ci Malibu "way back when", it came with the TH350.

Agree with 2th Farmer, Z25 SS option code, L34, L35 or L78 engine code, or M40 TH400 code visible on the build sheet.

X2


The L35 is the 325hp version, the 350hp version was RPO L34.


What would show up as a Concours? The Concours was an option on the Malibu 4-dr sport sedan (RPO ZJ6 Special Sport Sedan, 135/13669) as well as a model name on two station wagon series's - 13646 Concours and 13836/46 Concours Estate wagons.

:confused:

GMC has a 400 turbo ina 71 sprint with a 350 engine facory
I know its not a chevelle But again.
Without the paper work than the title and car minus motor
you cannot prove the SS status thru 72 IMO
I have never see that proven .
I dont care if you disect my post
Option gauges could be ordered in most 12 blts can be changed
Interior package consoles were no different
It does not matter with no buld sheet or motor you cant prove it.
It could be a clone as easy as not

GMC has a 400 turbo ina 71 sprint with a 350 engine facory
I know its not a chevelle But again.
Without the paper work than the title and car minus motor
you cannot prove the SS status thru 72 IMO
I have never see that proven .
I dont care if you disect my post
Option gauges could be ordered in most 12 blts can be changed
Interior package consoles were no different
It does not matter with no buld sheet or motor you cant prove it.
It could be a clone as easy as notI wasn't picking it apart, just separating items that didn't seme to go together and trying to understand what you were saying. Some things seem to come from nowhere and are confusing to me.

Examples:

* "Without the paper work than the title and car minus motor you cannot prove the SS status thru 72 IMO." What does that mean, "Without the paper work than the title..." ?? Titles have known to be wrong for many years before being caught. I've seen a 65 Malibu title with the correct VIN mistakenly titled as a 64 Chevelle because it was sold new in the 1964 calendar year; initial clerk made a mistake and it stayed like that for 43 years. Titles don't normally indicate if a 69-72 was ordered any SS option. More often than not it'd say something like Malibu 2-dr coupe. FWIW, in 1972 if there is a "W" code in the VIN it indicates a 454 engine and that required the SS option and if the original 454 engine was still in a 71 Chevelle, it'd have to have the SS option as well.

Additionally, in 71 & 72 the SS option could be ordered with any optional V8 engine so even with one of the original 350 or 402 engines in a 71 or 72, there's still no proof of it being an SS optioned Chevelle since those engines could be ordered without the SS option as well.

* "It would show up as a concours." What would show up as a Concours? The only Concours option in 1969 was on the 4-dr sport sedan and that model was not available with the SS option.

* "The option packages were available on both cept for the BB" What option packages? Available on both (both what?) except for the BB?

Again, I wasn't picking your posts apart...I just don't understand what you're saying.

Von....when I ordered my 300hp, 350ci Malibu "way back when", it came with the TH350.
Thanks. I was looking at my '69 GM Restoration Packet info and all 3 speed automatic option codes are M40, even for 6 cyl and base V8. Strange.

Thanks Dale.

I thought it was just me that couldn't follow Blubu's posts or reasoning.

on a build sheet, what will a true SS car in 1969 show to authenticate it?

In his original post 2thfarmer asked what on a buildsheet would tell me that my car is an SS. How did we get so far off topic?

The answer is L35 unless someone has proof that this engine could be ordered in a non SS car.
Thoughts?

I certainly mean no disrespect to blubu, I just couldn't understand where Concours, gauges, option packages or consoles came into play when the original poster said he had the build sheet. :confused:

I tend to think it would be proof of having the SS option as long as the sequence number on the build sheet in question matched the car itself.

Dan Carr's poster states that, "... the number of big-block Chevelles exceeds the number of SS options by 323 cars." Actually the number of L35 (325hp), L34 (350hp) and L78 (375hp) engines exceed the number of Z25 SS options.
86630 - big block (Chevelle) engines listed in GM's report
86307 - SS options listed in GM's report
xx323 - big block (Chevelle) engines not accounted for via SS option.

Dan goes on to say, "It is believed that 210 of those were actually the COPO 427." By "those" I assume Dan's referring to 210 of the L78's that were exchanged for the L72 since the COPO cars weren't SS optioned. The poster also says there's at least one non-SS Malibu documented with the L34 engine. I don't follow the 69 model year that closely so I don't have any research on it - only what I read.

The figures used are from Len Williamsons Tail Fins and Bowties (Production Figures & Options Totals - By The Book (1953-1989) book which is pretty much the information used by everyone citing these numbers.

So the 323 missing engines less the believed 210 COPO cars still leaves 113 big block engines that weren't ordered with SS options. It's been discussed that these could have been special order police cars. Who knows?

Interesting. Unfortunately the Power Teams chart from the Restoration Kit lists (in one chart) both the TH350 & TH400 with the same moniker, Turbo Hydra-Matic and in another the same name with RPO M40 in parentheses for all engines but doesn't list the M38 TH350.
I am tending to wonder if the M38 is much like the later TH350C which is a heavier duty trans than a standard 350. Doubt it could be confused with a 400 though as the valvebody/kickdown works differently and the overall appearance and pan are much different.

I've heard that both the M40 and M38 codes were used for a Turbo 350 (in non-BB applications). But I believe there are some who swear their smallblock really did come from the factory with a Turbo 400. This is further complicated by the fact that two different option prices were listed for the M40 automatic, $190 and $221. The price listed for M38 is $220. If some non-SS drivetrains really came with a T400, I'm wondering what determined that trans over a T350. My guess is that would've been either the F40 HD suspension option, which included a 12 bolt diff even with the smallest engines, or the L48 300 hp 350 engine, or maybe a combination of both. My money would be on the F40.
This is where I'd place my money. I'd like to think the heavy duty suspension option irregardless of powerplant selected should warrant a transmission capable of "towing". Certainly, just like anything else, anybody could have walked into the dealership and know which boxes to check to get the same outcome as well.

I certainly mean no disrespect to blubu, I just couldn't understand where Concours, gauges, option packages or consoles came into play when the original poster said he had the build sheet. :confused:

I tend to think it would be proof of having the SS option as long as the sequence number on the build sheet in question matched the car itself.

Dan Carr's poster states that, "... the number of big-block Chevelles exceeds the number of SS options by 323 cars." Actually the number of L35 (325hp), L34 (350hp) and L78 (375hp) engines exceed the number of Z25 SS options.
86630 - big block (Chevelle) engines listed in GM's report
86307 - SS options listed in GM's report
xx323 - big block (Chevelle) engines not accounted for via SS option.

Dan goes on to say, "It is believed that 210 of those were actually the COPO 427." By "those" I assume Dan's referring to 210 of the L78's that were exchanged for the L72 since the COPO cars weren't SS optioned. The poster also says there's at least one non-SS Malibu documented with the L34 engine. I don't follow the 69 model year that closely so I don't have any research on it - only what I read.

The figures used are from Len Williamsons Tail Fins and Bowties (Production Figures & Options Totals - By The Book (1953-1989) book which is pretty much the information used by everyone citing these numbers.

So the 323 missing engines less the believed 210 COPO cars still leaves 113 big block engines that weren't ordered with SS options. It's been discussed that these could have been special order police cars. Who knows?

I have owned 9- 69 chevelles two doors one was a 300 post car .
The rest were Malibus except for two that were SS
I cant prove that but for the sake of talk and appearance
The one I raced had no motor only a title I had no history?
I went over it as well as I could?
Everything showed it to be what they claimed.
I put a 454 in it and went racing for about three years we flogged that car,
When I sold it I PULLED motor and let her go
The man did not care as he was also going to race it.
When I went to try and prove that it was indeed a SS.
I was told over and over that the car without original motor.
Could not be verified as anything but a two door coupe. Thru 72
The motor was key. The title does not verify its a SS
THE OPTIONS have very little to do with it. Buckets/ consoles/ tachs/
front disc brakes/ So on So on were available on both.
My comment on el Camino or sprints??
I bought one that was setting under a tree for 500.00.
Those were the days. The man run me off
I asked him can the car be bought?? He said no.
I turned around at the gate asked him Is it me??
OR the car aint for sale. he said I have had so many people come and look
They don’t want it . They want me to give it to them.
I said how much he said 500.00 I told him I would go get the money
I come back with a trailer car was loaded with trash
The old fellow was under the hood asked what I was doing with a trailer?
He said the car runs I would have never dreamed we put a battery in it Fired it up.
I drove it home took battery back and got my car and trailer.
He said you were the only one serious enough to buy it
The car had a 350 ci Motor/ 350 turbo/ 12 bolt / buckets/ console/
Tach dash/ flat hood / PS/ pdb/ Tilt/ Air / ACC light pkg Very rusty
I figured the 12 bolt had been put in later
I found the build sheet two of them actually
Showed the car to be as it was GMC sprint with all the bells and whistles short of a big block..
I looked under the dash and sure enough there was some wires hanging.
Attached to the passing gear for a 400 turbo
GM did some strange things back then I always learn something new
I swear did not happen only to be proven wrong or misinformed
Yes I would think a build sheet real one anyway would go along ways.
Towards making a car a true SS those years