I saw a '68 Chevelle in the parking lot of NPD in Charlotte today.
Having a '68 myself, I went over and talked to the guy.
It was a great looking car, and he opened the hood and let me check out the engine compartment and I noticed something odd.

Just being curious, I looked at the trim tag on the firewall to see what the original color of the car was, and the trim tag clearly read..."68-13637 ATL."
However, the VIN tag on the dash clearly read..."138378Z..."

What do you make of that?

The guy was being gracious and letting me look at his car, so I didn't want to put him on the spot, and I didn't say anything to him about it.

Impressions, comments?

Regards,
-Greg

Obviously one of the two has been replaced. If it's the trim tag, no harm no foul as it is not a legal means of identification. If it's the VIN that's been swapped, someone is in for a rude awakening. :yes:

Perhaps you should have mentioned it. Poor guy may be a victim of a rip-off and not know it.
That 138 V.I.N. tag would have a lot more rea$ons to be replaced than the trim tag.
At least he would have had more info about his car...
Edit: Another thought, you could also have mentioned the concealed V.I.N. locations so he could check out the true identity of his car.


Dan

Obviously one of the two has been replaced. If it's the trim tag, no harm no foul as it is not a legal means of identification. If it's the VIN that's been swapped, someone is in for a rude awakening.

For the sake of discussion, let's say it's the VIN tag that has been replaced.

Since Trim Tags are legal, couldn't he very easily take a photo of his VIN, along with some other "documentation," and submit it to a place such as www.trimtags.com and get a matching Trim Tag for it?
He could then sell it to an unsuspecting buyer, and it might not be discovered for years...or perhaps never discovered.

Who would be in for a "rude awakening" then?
I'm sure there are many cars out there with swapped VINs whose owners will never know what they actually have.

Regards,
-Greg

States are checking vins for accuracy nowadays. NC started it last year for all 35+ year old cars brought into NC from out of state. This car either was an in state car or was purchased prior to the law taking effect. NPD in Charlotte is close to the SC line so it could have been an out of state car.

An unwary buyer could be burned later if the state checks the car.

States are checking vins for accuracy nowadays. NC started it last year for all 35+ year old cars brought into NC from out of state...An unwary buyer could be burned later if the state checks the car.

With the above mentioned Chevelle, I just found it odd that whoever swapped a tag, didn't swap both of them.

Jonathan, perhaps you never read my thread about a "team" of guys here in North Carolina who were actually replacing VIN tags, getting them titled as 138 VIN cars, then selling them...in North Carolina and out of state.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244195

When their "operation" came to light and was stopped (temporarily?), none of them got "burned."
The main reason that the DMV attempts to verify VINs is to uncover and stop the concealment of stolen cars.
When it was determined that these guys were not involved in dealing with stolen cars, they were handled with kid gloves and got a slap on the wrist.
The DMV is not filled with Chevelle afficiondos who are concerned with 136 versus 138 VINs, they are concerned with stopping the concealment of stolen cars.

Unfortunately, all the cars these guys swapped VIN tags on are still out there...in North Carolina and out of state...in the garages of unsuspecting owners.
And I'm sure these aren't the only guys in the United States who have swapped VIN tags, so it makes me wonder how many "138" cars are out there, with legitimate titles, that are actually "136" cars...and the owners will never know.

P.S. - Regarding the N.C. DMV "inspection"...
I brought my car in from out of state and a N.C. DMV "inspector" actually came over to my house to check my car out.
His "inspection" consisted of shining a pen light through my windshield and looking at my VIN tag, then taking a quick glance at my trim tag. He verified my VIN wasn't on a list of VINs from stolen cars.

We then leaned against the Chevelle, lit up a fresh smoke, and had a nice bull session about whatever.
He then sat in the front seat of his car and wrote me out a form verifying what my cars is, that my VIN was accurate, and that the VIN was not on any list of stolen VINs.
I then took that form to the N.C. DMV and got a North Carolina title...based on what the "inspector" had written on that form.

I can guarantee you I could have put any VIN and Trim Tag on that car (as long as they matched and were not stolen), and the "inspector" would have given it the same "seal of approval," we would have had the same smoke and bull session, and I would have got the same form from him, guaranteeing me a legitimate North Carolina title.

I've seen first hand how easy it would be to manipulate and use the system...just so long as nothing is stolen.

Regards,
-Greg

Technically the Inspector is supposed to verify the vin against the hidden vins on the car and to also check engine and transmission numbers. Part of the inspection is also to value the car for tax purposes. The inspectors are clearly not doing their job if they just check for the car being stolen. Any car already titled is not subject to inspection at this time. Remember this whole thing came about because of a corrupt DMV official.

If it was me, I would have mentioned this to the car owner...in a polite way, of course.
And if the shoe was on the other foot and I was the owner, I would want to know this about my car. :yes:

...the Inspector is supposed to...also check engine and transmission numbers.

You know, actually about mid-way through our bull session we popped the hood on it and he showed me where the engine stamp pad was and we shined a light on it and wiped it off and he helped me retrieve that number...but that didn't seem to be part of his "inspection," it was mainly so I could write the number down and look it up later to verify what engine I have in my Chevelle (396).





Part of the inspection is also to value the car for tax purposes.

Hmm, it didn't have anything to do with taxes in my case.

When I went to the DMV to get my title, I presented a bill of sale to the woman (thinking that I would pay North Carolina sales tax based on the sale price listed in the bill of sale), however she told me that with older cars the DMV had a standardized valuation that they used, based on the year of the car, and you pay sales tax based on that standardized valuation...as opposed to what's on a bill of sale.

She told me that way someone can't bring a bill of sale into the DMV with a $100 sale price on it and get away with only paying 6 dollars in taxes.

Also, as you know, we have a yearly "personal property tax" that we pay on each of our vehicles. That tax is based on the year and make of the vehicle...not on any inspection of it.
The amount of "personal property tax" I pay on the Chevelle is chump change because it's 40 years old.

So, I'm not really sure what you mean when you say that part of the inspection is for "tax purposes."





The inspectors are clearly not doing their job if they just check for the car being stolen.

But, in their mind they are doing their job if they determine your car is not stolen, because stopping the concealment and resale of stolen cars is their primary concern.

The DMV does not have "Chevelle advocates" in their office who are concerned with whether or not you receive a "136" VIN Chevelle versus a "138" VIN Chevelle.
Their primary concern is that North Carolina does not receive any stolen Chevelles.

There are millions of vehicles in North Carolina. Once the DMV determines that yours is not stolen, they are not going to continue to split hairs or squabble about the "pedigree" of a 40 year old car...because they simply have neither the time nor the inclination to do so.

Regards,
-Greg

I beg to differ. I read of a case in New Bern where a guy created a pro-touring Chevelle. The inspector labeled the car as reconstructed and issued a state vin labeling the car as a 2007 eventhough the original vin plate was on the car. The owner fought the decision and won. If a vehicle is labeled a 200X model it would be subject to increased personal property taxes and emission inspections as well as safety requirements.

The state is looking for stolen parts and cars. When I replaced the engine in my 69 the Inspector I called in Greensboro told me to keep the original title from the donor car to prove the engine was obtained legally. When I scrapped the donor car I gave them a photocopy of the title. If you have a crate engine you just need to keep the receipt. This has also opened up a problem when it comes to used parts. If you buy an engine off of Craigslist you may end up with a stolen part and you could have trouble registering the car.

As for taxes, the DMV is not concerned about county taxes just state registration taxes. If you bring a car into NC you cannot go through the process and title the car until it is roadworthy. This contradicts the law because it states that when you purchase a car you have X number of days to title it in your name, thus triggering the County tax listing.

Greg, this is a new process and I don't think the state inspectors are on the same page.

In Kansas, they only inspect and record the VIN and make sure it doesn't look like it's been tampered with and then, only on vehicles being brought in from out of state.
They do look under the hood and see if the engine looks like it matches what's on the title too though.

One of the H.P. inspection officers told me that they catch a lot of stolen vehicles.

Interesting.

I had a 1967 Rambler American into which I swapped in a ca. 1972 engine and AT..........maybe here in Arizona our MVD does not care about verifying things. Heck: when I registered the car (prior to replacing the motor); I simply brought in the notarized title, showed my driver's license and was issued a new title in my name, license plate as well as a registration card. No vehicle inspection, nothing.

It all still makes me wonder how many Chevelles are out there, parked in people's garages, with "138" VIN's but actually started out as "136" VIN Chevelles.

As I've said, the "crew" around here altered who knows how many Chevelles and put them out in the marketplace before they "suspended" their operations. Those Chevelles are out there somewhere. And that's just one group of guys, in one state. I'm sure many more of them have been altered around the country.

Then there's the '69 and up Chevelles with cleverly PhotoShopped "buildsheets" sitting in peoples garages, and out in the marketplace.

Hell, I even saw a fellow on eBay within the past year who was selling blank VIN tags.
His auction stated "numbers can be stamped for an additional charge of $10 per character."

It all makes me wonder, just how prevalent is this stuff?



P.S. (Off Subject) - Jonathan, I see you're from Siler City, N.C.
Did you know that the woman who played "Aunt Bee" on The Andy Griffith Show retired to Siler City, N.C. when the show went off the air?
She lived in a house on W. Elk Street for almost 20 years.

Regards,
-Greg

Yes, Francis Bavier was a bitter old woman when she lived here. Rumor has it that she wouldn't answer the door when Ron Howard came to her house. She is buried in Siler City.

Yes, Francis Bavier was a bitter old woman when she lived here. Rumor has it that she wouldn't answer the door when Ron Howard came to her house. She is buried in Siler City.

Aunt Bea? say it ain't so.:eek:

The state is looking for stolen parts and cars. When I replaced the engine in my 69 the Inspector I called in Greensboro told me to keep the original title from the donor car to prove the engine was obtained legally. When I scrapped the donor car I gave them a photocopy of the title. If you have a crate engine you just need to keep the receipt. This has also opened up a problem when it comes to used parts.




GOOD GRIEF,,,, glad I live in Michigan....... They didnt even ask if I had a engine in my car when I bought it ,and transfered it to my name...and Ive had 3 engines and 2 trans in it since and havent worried boo hoo about it..