Alright, well the one thing I really want to do in my El Camino is just try and make it handle the best it can. It is more of a budget build and I can't go out and buy a whole new air ride system or anything, but is there something that doesn't have the quick adjust ability and would suffice? I saw the A1 varishocks and was interested in them, but wanted to know if anyone else went that route and what they thought? So far I have 2 inch drop spindles, and inch end 3/8ths front sway bar and a 1 inch rear sway bar. Are the varishocks the best way to get good handling on a budget?

What "drop spindles" do you have? Unless they're ATS, Heidts, Fatman, or Detroit Speed you're better off selling/returning them and going a different route on the spindles.

really? they are stainless steel brake spindles, and I figured it would be best dropping it without cutting the springs or putting lowering springs in because it would change geometry? as far as coil overs go, have you had any experience with the varishock coil over kit? I was leaning towards those, atleast on the front, after I got this thing up and running.

I figured it would be best dropping it without cutting the springs or putting lowering springs in because it would change geometry?That's a common misconception... fact is, the geometry is way screwed up in stock form and dropping with springs actually helps the geometry (not nearly enough though). All is not lost though, you've actually got the best of all the spindles that don't fix anything because while they don't fix anything, they also don't make anything worse. :) (there are several out there that screw up the steering geometry, and force you to use tiny insufficient brakes)

You could run tall-balljoints (SC&C Stage 2+ package) with those spindles to correct the camber curve. but that'll drop you another 1/2" and because of the pin drop, you won't be able to get the A-arm angles quite to their optimal level unless you run your car VERY low (we're talking no inner-fenders, and 2" ground clearance at the crossmember)

It will be much better than stock, but you'd get better handling out of a spring drop, stock spindles, and the same SC&C Stage 2+ package.

as far as coil overs go, have you had any experience with the varishock coil over kit? I was leaning towards those, atleast on the front, after I got this thing up and running.
Not personally, but I know several people running them, and they have a pretty good reputation. :) I'm not a real big fan of coil-over kits that use the stock upper spring pocket, as they do put side-loads on the shock body, and other than height adjustablility, there's no advantage over a regular spring & shock of similar rates & quality.

So these spindles basically kept everything the same but dropped my front end 2 inches. So if i want to go lower would you say go with a lowering spring on top of the 2 inch spindles? The stock spindles are gone already so im definitely going to stick with these. I guess that is the only other option that I have to drop the front end other then cutting springs.. and that would make the spring rate softer right?

Do you have a link to the SC&C Stage 2+ package. I might look into that because as it sits right now with the engine in and no sheet metal it doesn't sit low enough so another half inch would be fine as it wont be a daily driver :)

Thanks for the response I really appreciate it,

Matt

www.scandc.com

cutting springs would make them a little stiffer. Cut stock springs would work pretty well with your 1-3/8" front sway bar (that's a BIG bar)

What "drop spindles" do you have? Unless they're ATS, Heidts, Fatman, or Detroit Speed you're better off selling/returning them and going a different route on the spindles.
Derek,I just can't stop checking out your '69.That's one nice ride..Bob

A lot of people in the pro-touring scene use DSE, which is 1 of the best, and Speed-Tech. Either one of these brands should do wonders for your suspension!:thumbsup:

Alright, well the one thing I really want to do in my El Camino is just try and make it handle the best it can. It is more of a budget build and I can't go out and buy a whole new air ride system or anything, but is there something that doesn't have the quick adjust ability and would suffice? I saw the A1 varishocks and was interested in them, but wanted to know if anyone else went that route and what they thought? So far I have 2 inch drop spindles, and inch end 3/8ths front sway bar and a 1 inch rear sway bar. Are the varishocks the best way to get good handling on a budget?

I think the best place to start is stating what your budget is.

I think the best place to start is stating what your budget is.


That is probably a very good point. Well I'm at a standstill untill I get the engine fired and everything. But I would like to know what to start with. Would it be wheels with low profiles? I hear that is where you go first to start making it handle better. I kind of want to go one thing at a time. I already cleaned up the whole front suspension and put energy suspension urethane bushings on the sway bar links and the A-arm bushings. New balljoints, new inner and outer tierod ends, new idler arm, and an inch and a quarter front sway bar, and the 2 inch drop spindles like I mentioned before. I checked the turns lock to lock on my steering box and its about 2.75 or so. What should be my next step for a better handling car, I guess is what I'm asking? Is it the sc&c upper A arm kit? (even though I just put urethane in) or should I go to bigger wheels with low profile tires? (was thinking the coy 55). I can probably do one of those steps right now.

Thanks,

Matt

I went with the SC&C stage 2 kit + C6 calipers + Varishocks A1 front/rear. You gotta figure out how much you want to spend or you end up like me with a neverending project due to incoming funds(going on years 4 now?) Check my sig for my suspension stuff.

BTW the Varishocks are a nice setup. I drove down to get them at the Alston factory. Nice people and would recommend them in a second, although I have yet to drive/ride on them. They are built with attention to detail. Not the cheapest shock though. I liked the fact they would even rebuild them for @$50 a set right there.

We have recorded over 1.1G with our Shockwave and StrongArm kits our 66 Chevelle. I also have our Street Challenge kit on my personal 70 Chevelle, I love the way it rides and handles.

We have recorded over 1.1G with our Shockwave and StrongArm kits our 66 Chevelle. I also have our Street Challenge kit on my personal 70 Chevelle, I love the way it rides and handles.
PIC'S of your 70 OR BAN LOL!! over 1 G is pretty good, on a street compond tire or???

We use BFG KD or KDW's on all of our cars. I believe that the KD's were used in that testing.
Here is some that testing data.....
http://www.ridetech.com/more/street-challenge-archive/

I'm just finishing up the installation of the AutoMeter ES gauges, Vintage Air, Dynamat, and AAW Hwy. 22 kit. Here is an older image of my car, I have since ditched the grille inserts.

http://www.ridetech.com/gallery/files/2/4/mom_s_camera_040-1_998902.jpg

Sweet looking car....

Here is some that testing data.....

Darren when is the next competetive even on the West Coast?
I want to know how I stack up.

would those systems allow to do the suspension upgrades now but add better brakes later?

Sweet looking car....

Thanks!

Darren when is the next competetive even on the West Coast?
I want to know how I stack up.

We will be holding auto x's at the Costa Mesa & Del Mar GoodGuys events this spring. I will actually be at the Del Mar show myself. If I had to guess, I'll be stuck in the booth most of the weekend. Bret (owner) and Ty will be having all the fun at the auto x.

would those systems allow to do the suspension upgrades now but add better brakes later?

Sure. The tall spindles that we use on the front end will work with any disc brake kit that will work with the factory disc brake spindle. The StrongArms will work with the drum spindles as well tho.

That's awesome! Cause I think I'm going to have to do this in steps as I can't afford to just drop ~$2k on suspension and brakes all at once...especially since I have to have bigger wheels too haha, don't think 14"s will clear decent brakes

If needed we can start with just the suspension and put schrader valves on it until you are ready for the compressor kit.

Air Ride is awesome. We are building a 68 Chevelle to do the Bull Run (the real Cannonball Run) and we will use Air Ride.

For a non Air Ride set up, the New Detroit Speed set up is pretty damn cool. I believe they have cured all the geomotry issues in a durable package with real engineering behind it.

We are proud delaers for both products.

One man's budget build is another man's second mortgage.

Here's what I reccomend for the best handling car for the least amount of $$. It does require a bit of junkyard crawling in order to save the most amount of $$. I have done this setup, and it handles very, very well for the money outlay. I spent just under $1000.

Get spindles from a 77-90 B-body (Caprice, etc). Make sure you get them from a station wagon or cop car, as those have the 12" brakes. You can use the B-body spindles and calipers, but you will need other rotors since the B-bodies have a 5" lug pattern. Get rotors for a 1990 or so 1LE Camaro; its the same thing, but with a 4 3/4" wheel pattern. At this point, you will be in it several hundred dollars.

The expensive part (again, expensive being relative) will be the upper a-arms. You can use the same lower a-arms, springs, shocks, and sway bar you are using now, but the upper a-arm will have to be replaced with a set from Hotchkis or Global West or a similar compay with pieces made specifically for this application (A-body with B-body spindles). They run in the neighborhood of $600. You will also need different ball joints.

In my experience, doing the poly bushings and the thicker sway bar all help, but going to the tall spindles really changes the feel. The best drop springs and spindles and shocks don't even approach the difference of the tall spindle swap.

Full suspension packages from Air Ride or DSE or most any other high-quality place like those companies will run $5k to $8k. Were I in the position to make that decision, I would have a really tough time choosing between Air Ride or DSE. Some guys would call an $8k suspension package "budget" (especially in comparison to a purpose built car like the 66 Hot Rods to Hell that CHP ran in the Silver State Challenge last fall), but they certainly are not working with my budget, either.

Come to think of it, HRTH's truck arm setup for the rear suspension is pretty awesome. Doing that in the rear with a DSE package in the front would be swell.

Best bang for the buck in what I would call budget is the B-body spindles.

sorry, double post.

for the price the SC&C upper and lower arms are a steal. The upper arms can be set for any reasonable alignment specs without even using a shim!! Best of all is the price for them, even with the upgrades for the stage 2+ and the lower tubular arms you still walk away with more than from any other company. I got everything for somewhere around 1200 bucks (give or take I dont have my reciepts at home) . Marcus also is very upfront about what he is selling. He actually talked me out of buying a set of coilovers and recommended me buying parts he didnt even sell but it was correct for my car. That alone tells a lot about what kind of guy you are dealing with, he isnt just out there to make a buck off you like most companies do. Plus side to this is you can use a stock spindle and get all kinds of geometry improvements with em. I went this route and bought a set of Kore3 brake brackets and c5 z06 brakes which is also a huge bargain for what you get. For springs I went with Hotchkis cause they sell just fronts and I also got Varishock double adjustable shocks. Its definitely not cheap for all the hardware but for 13 in brakes and a fully adjustable suspension that is proven to work for right around 3 grand is pretty hard to beat. Just my 2 pennies