: 327 won't start- troubleshooting help needed
Mexbkr Dec 27th, 08, 3:10 PM I have been trying to start my 67 Malibu and am out of ideas. I have 327 w/stock points and distributor, new plug wires, clean plugs, and head valves set and re-checked. It just won't start. I have re-checked timing, and verified correct plug wire connections. i think i have an elec problem but can't find it. I get very weak/no spark out of the spark plug wire when held close to engine ground. I am doing some troubleshooting and here is what i am confused about now.
I connected a test light to (-) terminal on coil and grounded it. I get a flashing light as I crank the engine over: this tells me the points are opening and closing and condenser is ok; i think this is right.
I then hooked up a VOM to the coil (+) terminal with switch in run position (non-crank), and i read 5.5V: I expected to get a full 12 V. I then cranked the engine over and noticed that while cranking the engine over, I get a voltage reading that tracks the points opening and closing. That is, when I get a light with the test light, I read 12V on the + coil terminal. When the test light goes out, I get about 5.5V. This does not seem right to me as i thought I'd get a full 12V at the (+) term on the coil when in the switch is in the run position, without cranking. What am I missing?
I have the wire from the distributor connected to the - term at the coil and the double wires from the switch and starter solenoid connected to the + terminal on the coil.
8587camaro Dec 28th, 08, 11:58 AM check and see if distributer is not 180 out and check and make sure its on the compression stroke its all about timing
BigFred66 Dec 28th, 08, 12:47 PM Mex,12V during cranking is correct.Double wire on + side of coil is correct,wire with white cloth jacket is a resistance wire that does reduce the voltage when ign.switch is in the "run/on" position.
Do you have access to a dwell meter?It measures the amount of time(in degrees) the points are closed,connecting the dwell meter across the coil terminals,disconnect coil to cap wire,have an assistant crank the engine and adjust the points so that the meter reads 30 degrees(factory spec is 28-32)during cranking,this will ensure that the points are gapped correctly and allowing ample "saturation" of the coil.
If a dwell meter isn't readily available you could try this.....remove dist.cap,have assistant "bump" the starter until you get the rubbing block of the points on the highest peak of one of the distributors cam lobes,using a feeler gauge,adjust point gap to .016-
.018.Reinstall cap and give it a whirl. Hope this helps.
Mexbkr Dec 28th, 08, 5:25 PM I do have dwell meter and had points set when car was running before. i could check again. engine ran ok before i took heads off to have valves reworked. i put heads back in and now have problem with start. I figured gap would have not moved since all i did was remove distributor when i took heads off. ... i'll check tonite...
Chevl_Steve Dec 28th, 08, 6:48 PM Are you 100% sure you put the distributor back in right and not 180 out?
I'm not convinced the condensor has been eliminated. Coils can go bad with age. Clean up the terminals on the coil with a wire brush.
Also have someone crank the engine while you watch the points open and close to make sure all looks ok there.
Mexbkr Dec 28th, 08, 8:28 PM I will check again on timing; i have used the ol' thumb, and also have compression gage to find compression stroke TDC. i will also use dwell to check dwell setting, and try to put my eyes on points, although with old eyes, i rely upon test lights connected to -term on coil and grounded. i am also trying a different coil. will update tomorrow.
Mexbkr Dec 31st, 08, 1:02 PM Ok. I replaced the points, and it started up. Finally! Points look good so maybe the condenser went bad.
thanks to all!
Saturation refers to having as large an electromagnetic field as the available current can build in the primary windings of the coil. It requires that the primary current to move into and through the primary windings long enough to build up the field, so that when the points open and the field collapses, the effect is strong enough to generate a strong secondary current to the plug.
Ie, if the points stay closed for too short a time, you get less spark energy to the plugs. Its whats happening during the "dwell" period. In the old days, dual point distributors were used to provide a longer current on time to the coil, within the physical constraints of dist cam dimensions and rpm, etc. Longer dwell, to a point, is better.
Note that this explanation is from a civil engineer, so I reserve the right to use poor terminology. Electricial guru help is appreciated.
Chevl_Steve Dec 31st, 08, 9:37 PM Ok. I replaced the points, and it started up. Finally! Points look good so maybe the condenser went bad.
thanks to all!
Did you replace the condensor (capacitor) ...? I'm confused by your statement on what you did. Any chance a wire was placed wrong?
Mexbkr Jan 1st, 09, 11:14 AM I bought a new points set from NAPA, where the condensor is a part of the set, so i have to replace as a set. An option would be to buy points and condensor as separate items so as to only need to buy condensor if points look good; though i am not sure how much this cost than buying new set. As the second owner of the Chevelle with stock setup, this problem does give me some thought to replace the ignition system. but i'll stick to points for now..
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