Would everyone kill me if I took a chevelle or nova wagon and put a newer 6-cylinder toyota or honda motor in it? You know, a little nova wagon with the reliability of a honda or toyota drive-train with better gas mileage than a chevy drive-train. I could drive that sucker all day, anywhere and not be worried about fuel mileage.

I know what the purists would say, but why not?

I would think using a nova would be the easiest since they have a sub-frame. You could drop the sub right out, and modify the sub from whatever toyota or honda and bolt it right in. Run you computer harness. Hook up some GM sender units, install the foreign radiator/fan/switches etc. You would have a hell of a nice driver.

You would have to modify the rear suspension, figure out how to run the speedo, and I think thats about it unless you had some clearance issues with the firewall or ac box. Which reminds me, I guess you would have to modify the ac compressor hose to accept the stock fitting to the box.

Am I crazy?

Steering linkage and brake lines too.

yes, your crazy.

you want tp make it fwd?

why not pick up a latemodle 4.2 I6 from a trailblazer? reliable, better power than honda, its still a gm motor.
or a 3.8v6 from a camaro.

the TB 4.2 is cheaper than and honda motor. then you have to custom fab everything including trans. 4.2 had a 4l60 or 4l65 behing it..

aaron

Do you think one of those little engines could really power a Chevelle wagon? If that little engine is pulling hard would it really be saving gas over a 350 with a 700R4?

Why not a 5.3 swap - good power for daily and lots of expansion potential if you want later. I pull down 20+ mpgs at 70 or so on the highway consistenly in my gmc sierra w 3.73' in the rear. Smaller of the LS based motors would be nice I think. Or a good old gm 6 banger rebuild and a good tune to put around in but with the 5.3 you have decent power, can haul and tow if you wanted without struggle. And you could actually pass someone if you needed to without banging on the steering wheel yelling "COME ON!!!" :D

You're kidding yourself if you think a Honda or Toyota is going to provide any better fuel mileage or reliability than a GM 2.2L Ecotec. :yes:

Would everyone kill me if I took a chevelle or nova wagon and put a newer 6-cylinder toyota or honda motor in it? You know, a little nova wagon with the reliability of a honda or toyota drive-train with better gas mileage than a chevy drive-train. I could drive that sucker all day, anywhere and not be worried about fuel mileage.

I know what the purists would say, but why not?

I would think using a nova would be the easiest since they have a sub-frame. You could drop the sub right out, and modify the sub from whatever toyota or honda and bolt it right in. Run you computer harness. Hook up some GM sender units, install the foreign radiator/fan/switches etc. You would have a hell of a nice driver.

You would have to modify the rear suspension, figure out how to run the speedo, and I think thats about it unless you had some clearance issues with the firewall or ac box. Which reminds me, I guess you would have to modify the ac compressor hose to accept the stock fitting to the box.

Am I crazy?
yes, you are for the reasons mentioned above. You could put together any motor and power train with the saved time and money it would take to adapt parts in order to gain nothing.You could put something from scratch and make it just as reliable as any foriegn make you mentioned above.
Might also want to check reliablty reports for the lastest honda ratings, you'll be surprised

^ what they all said..... with ls motors getting 25+ mpg on cars with weight, i dont see any reason to go with anything else. and im not a purist at all!

Tim

What up with a 5.3 GM truck motor with DOD Displacment on Demand
and a 4L65E and 3.08 rear gears.

Get some mild porting done and long tubes with the stock cam for good low end toque and lug the motor all the way to Vegas.

Wow...I really thought I was going to get bashed. I must admit, it would be alot of extra work for nothing. I would never put a 2.2l ecotec in a chevelle or nova wagon. I was only talking about 6-cylinders anyways. A 4-banger could never power one of these wagons.

Some of those foreign job 6's are making a decent 200hp and above. But I guess the 5.3 ls would be a better idea. If you drive it like a g-ma on the highway I have gotten as much as 29mpg in my 99' vette on a trip to tulsa from Louisville KY.

I will reveal why I posted this.....I just like weird things that aren't normal. There is this video on Streetfire.net of a guy who put a 5.3ls in a honda CIVIC!! That car has to be fun. I love pure classics, but at the same time I really liked it when Jay Leno took that Toronado and made it rear wheel drive. Or when people convert their diesels to run on veggie oil. You know......stuff that isn't everyday kinda stuff. You got to admit, it would be different to see a GM with a Jap heart. Just think of all the death threats I would get, could be humorous actually.

If you're interested in 6 cylinders, whynot put a Grand National Engine in it :yes: That would be pretty cool to see an intercooled Turbo Charged Buick engine in a chevelle wagon :D. If that's not an option, how about a buildup on a 4.3 V-6? They can be pretty potent as well.

You're kidding yourself if you think a Honda or Toyota is going to provide any better fuel mileage or reliability than a GM 2.2L Ecotec. :yes:
And you could use the Supercharged version from the Cobalt. Excellent gas mileage. Di you know the LS6 motor from the Vette has the best HP per pound of fuel of any production engine? That's why the German SAE guys gave it an award (yes, a push rod motor). It is also why Std vettes don"t have a gas guzzler tax. They get lots of MPG.

Look at this:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/10/11/corvette-z06-wins-mpg-marathon-in-the-uk/


My experience with Toyota engines in multiple cars over the years is not that good. My GM experiences are much better.

I believe if you check the largest engine recall in history was by Toyota on their V6.

And you could use the Supercharged version from the Cobalt. Excellent gas mileage. Di you know the LS6 motor from the Vette has the best HP per pound of fuel of any production engine? That's why the German SAE guys gave it an award (yes, a push rod motor). It is also why Std vettes don"t have a gas guzzler tax. They get lots of MPG.

Look at this:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/10/11/corvette-z06-wins-mpg-marathon-in-the-uk/


My experience with Toyota engines in multiple cars over the years is not that good. My GM experiences are much better.

I believe if you check the largest engine recall in history was by Toyota on their V6.

I wasn't aware of the recall by toyota. All I own are GM's, but my fiance drive a toyota camry V6 and its got alot of pep. I have rarely heard of any toyota owner complaining about their cars, if they do its an electrical problem...but then again I don't work in a shop. I draft metal roofs all day at a desk :boring:

What does a turbo'd buick grand national v6 get in the mpg area? Im looking for 24mpg minimum. I prefer 25-28mpg. Its not a power game for this project, its all about total drivability and reliability, and cost needs to be at a minimum. So I can afforf other things, like beer:beers:

I got a best of 24mpg with my stock caprice LT1/4L60e and 3.08 gears in my Chevelle... ran a 13.82 @ 96mph with that combo. :)

A manual trans would easily pick up 10% on top of that.

And you could use the Supercharged version from the Cobalt. Excellent gas mileage

The new LNF 2.0 Turbo motor is the most powerful engine GM has produced per cubiic inch. 2.1 (260)HP per CI. That is without a tune. They motors responce very well to a tune. GM stage kit is making 290 hp and 240 ft lbs of torque!!!

I am going to go with the sugestion the 3.8 with a turbo. Very reliable and many people have modifiede them so parts would be easy to get.

I'm sorry, but what is so unreliable about a tried and true 350? Or, as others are suggesting, the 5.3l or ls motors.

I hope one day people see the downfalls of all these imports. Sure, they seem to last long, but those are only the ones that are babied. I know people who drive them fairly hard and are already having problems at 45-50 thousand miles.

I like seeing those big v8's and L6's that are still chugging along and still blast down the freeways at high rpms because they don't have overdrives.

Not to mention, the imports don't have what is needed for a BIG car: TORQUE! I love it when I can honestly say my starter motor has more torque then some guys inport "tuner"l:)

I'm sorry, but what is so unreliable about a tried and true 350? Or, as others are suggesting, the 5.3l or ls motors.

I hope one day people see the downfalls of all these imports. Sure, they seem to last long, but those are only the ones that are babied. I know people who drive them fairly hard and are already having problems at 45-50 thousand miles.

I like seeing those big v8's and L6's that are still chugging along and still blast down the freeways at high rpms because they don't have overdrives.

Not to mention, the imports don't have what is needed for a BIG car: TORQUE! I love it when I can honestly say my starter motor has more torque then some guys inport "tuner"l:)
350's have less BSFC than the newer LS series motors, if you are going to use a V8, meaning the gas consumption is less in the newer designs.

I've got a supercharged 3800 in my wife's Buick Park Ave. that has been calling to me for sometime now. Now if the car would just fall apart so I can grab the engine. We just got back from a road trip to my BIL's funeral and at 80mph we were getting 30mpg. It's rated at 245 HP at it really gets that Buick moving. Can you imagine that in a street rod?

The new LNF 2.0 Turbo motor is the most powerful engine GM has produced per cubiic inch. 2.1 (260)HP per CI. That is without a tune. They motors responce very well to a tune. GM stage kit is making 290 hp and 240 ft lbs of torque!!!

I am going to go with the sugestion the 3.8 with a turbo. Very reliable and many people have modifiede them so parts would be easy to get.
I would stay away from the imports. They arent any more reliable than domestic stuff (if they are 10 years old or newer as a general statement)

Its a Chevy wagon, so put a GM engine in it. Keep in mind its kind of heavy car, so the LSx engine would be a good choice (LS1, 5.3, even the 4.7L).
As others have stated above, the ecotec turbo produces 260 hp in STOCK tune! That would be different, have good power, and get good mileage! :)
Good luck! :)

BTW, you CAN get good mileage from all kinds of engines. I had a 502+ hp/502 engine with a T56 & 3.42 gears in a 69 Camaro, and I got 22 mpg on the highway. That engine is now going into a 67 Chevelle wagon that I recently got back from the bodyshop, and just got the frame back from the powder coaters on Wednesday :)

Its a Chevy wagon, so put a GM engine in it. Keep in mind its kind of heavy car, so the LSx engine would be a good choice (LS1, 5.3, even the 4.7L).


4.7 is a SOHC Chrysler v8..

you mean the 4.8l LSx..

aaron

There's an early 60's Chevy II on Baltimore Craigslist that has a turbo 4-banger in it, don't remember the specifics though...could work well in the duece, a chevelle would probably be too heavy. Either way, you'd get comparable performance & mileage out of something like a 5.3, still have a V8 and the wonderful V8 sound, and it would be much less work...

I'm going to assume those of you saying a chevelle would be too heavy for a small engine haven't been paying attention to what even small cars today weigh...

A stock 1970 ss chevelle with 454 weighs 3800 pounds. A stock 2008 pontiac vibe with 1.6 liter weighs 2700 pounds. A difference of 1100 lbs.

2008 camry with 3.5 liter v6 weighs 3483 pounds. The difference between the camry and chevelle= 317 pounds.

Conclusion: small 1.6 liter 4-banger in a chevelle. No
V6= probable. very likely to work just fine.

A 2009 Saturn Vue with a 2.4L 4cyl weighs just under 3700lbs according to edmunds.com

4.7 is a SOHC Chrysler v8..

you mean the 4.8l LSx..

aaron
Yes, that is exactly what I meant! I am on pain pills after surgery, and fat fingers slipped on keyboard! :) It should read 4.8L!

BTW, I cant figure out HOW to edit my post......... where is the edit button located?? Thanks!

What about an L99, I hear they can get some pretty good mpg numbers:thumbsup:

Yes, that is exactly what I meant! I am on pain pills after surgery, and fat fingers slipped on keyboard! :) It should read 4.8L!

BTW, I cant figure out HOW to edit my post......... where is the edit button located?? Thanks!

it will only allow you to edit the posrt in a certain amount of days/hours. its usually down by the quote button.

rianbechtold
Re: Chevelle Wagon
What about an L99, I hear they can get some pretty good mpg numbers

L99 as in 4.3l v8 lt1? if so.. nah, it would over work like it does in the caprices. my LT1 gets about 24 on highway,and 17 average beating on it with mixed driving.

5.3 is the way to go... although LTx's are badass too.


aaron

What about an L99, I hear they can get some pretty good mpg numbers:thumbsup:
It depends on what L99 you are speaking of. The one in the 2010 Camaro SS does 400hp, and will get 23 mpg average! :)

I'm going to assume those of you saying a chevelle would be too heavy for a small engine haven't been paying attention to what even small cars today weigh...

Exactly, I am glad you brought up that subject.

I'm pretty weight is the biggest factor for why the Geo metros and ford fiestas got 40 mpg in the early 90s. Here we are almost almost 20 year later and similary sized veichle still get the same mileage or less.

Another option would be a 4.3 turbo from the syclone and typhoon. I'm not sure how similar this is to the grand national set up. The trick part would be making the AWD fuction work on the chevelle.
One day I will buy a Syclone/Typhoon.

If it was a chevelle i wuold most definetly go with a 6,5 turbodiesel out of a suburban or something, should get pretty amazing fuel economy and torque. Sure its bigblock heavy but so what, wouldnt work in a nova though.
My daily driver is a 71 toyota stw with a 80 something yota 2,2l diesel, puts out an amazing 66hp stock but i slapped a turbo+intercooler on it dynoed it at 115hp, fuel consumption is still the same though. Sure my point of view is a little of since i live in europe where diesel is cheaper than gas an diesels in general are very common.

Another option would be a 4.3 turbo from the syclone and typhoon. I'm not sure how similar this is to the grand national set up. The trick part would be making the AWD fuction work on the chevelle.
One day I will buy a Syclone/Typhoon.
People have been doing similar swaps with 4x4 chassis (usually a big blazer or K pickup) mounted under a chevelle or elcamino body for many years.So doing a similar swap with a chevelle wagon body on a syclone/typhoon chassis with the 4.3 turbo running gear might just be possible.If the wheelbases of both the donor truck and your car are close to each other it may even be as simple as removing one body and adding the chevelles.
Doing that with an import would be alot harder because most of their frames are built integral with the body panels.:clonk:

Ray,
I like the idea and will back your play! But, what about that turbo six out of a 2000ish Pontiac Grand Prix GTP? Also, I would lean toward the early Chevy II if I was doing something out of my mind.

Sounds like a fun project no matter which direction you go in! The most bang from your buck would probably be to go with an LS based motor backed by a T56... a good proven combo which should get you high 20's mpg with ease.

On another note, I can't believe how many domestic guys still don't think there are fast imports out there. I guess you are just running into Hondas with a universal muffler and grapefruit launcher exhaust tip. Ever try running a single turbo Supra? You might be surprised...

Back on subject... I was thinking about swapping a turbo six into my 72 Chevelle wagon a while back, but a BBC is what belongs between the fenders IMO.

yes, your crazy.

why not pick up a latemodle 4.2 I6 from a trailblazer?

aaron

like this? YouTube - NOVA WAGON 4200 VORTEC INLINE 6 TURBO


Scott

like this? YouTube - NOVA WAGON 4200 VORTEC INLINE 6 TURBO (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUESVD-PnLo)


Scott

Yea, that is a bad ass engine and might fit well in the wagon...

Ron

I have a 67 chevelle with a grand nationl motor in it heres some pic, have not worked on it in a while.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2470743

Well here is an example of what I was suggesting. If my motor wasn't rebuilt I would sersious consider putting in a 2.0 Turbo from a solstice/Sky. This a supercharged 2.0 ecotec that someone is installing a 1967 Chevy II. He is shooting for 500+ HP

http://cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=148951