I have a 69 Chevelle SS 396 car with a ton of options, if anyone out there can tell me what some of these codes mean I would appreciate that. It has a factory tach. that red lines at 6,000 rpm. doe's that make it a 375 hp. 396, a -L-78 car? I appreciate everyone's input & I hope you all have a great turkey week end!!! Thanks, Justin.

Welcome to the site Justin, I read your other thread and it sounds like quite a find!
try posting this question in chevelle tech or maybe a mod will move it.
heres a link
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=45

Try this: http://www.chevelles.com/shop/ss_ident.html

Justin what codes are you speaking of? As far as a 6k tach making a car a L78 car thats a slippery slope. I helped 2 friends clone 2 69 Chevelles in 1977 and 1978 into SS cars and in both cases we upgraded the dash with factory tachs both bought new at Jerry's Chevrolet in Baltimore. Do you have a build sheet, POP, or is the original engine in the car? Sometimes with enough clues a car can have its heritage reasonably determined. Most of our cars are pushing 40 years old and in that amount of time theres not much on a car that could have not been swapped, replaced or altered. Fake build sheets are now available everywhere and have even muddied the waters even more. Sounds like a great car and as others have asked post some pics of your new find....What options does the car have?.....The link above will help alot with determining if the car is a Real or Good clone SS. Good Luck

Hello Justin. Lots of things happen to cars during their lifetime. A car that is 39 years old may not have the original parts.

Having a 6,000 red line tach is not going to prove anything.

Is the engine original? Does it have the original, untouched stampings?

Justin, as stated already, the tach could have been added at any time.

How about some info about the engine. Is it original? Does it have the original stampings? How about pics of the stampings?

Hi again,
I know what the red line means on 1st generation Camaro's! I'm betting it means the same on Chevelle's and that is this...the red line on the tach. will tell me what engine was in this car! They are different red lines for different engines, some red line at 5,000 others at 5,500 & some are 6,000. You asked about the vin on the engine well...the engine is MIA. That is why it's so important to me to find out exactaly what engine was in this car. The 4-speed is still there. The car is complete except for the missing engine & radio. The car is all original, a surivor. It's been in storage for approx. 25 yrs! & with the help of you guys here I'm going to put this car back the way it was, nothing else. No modifications, the interior will stay original as will the rest of the car. Thanks for all your help & input, I do appreciate it, happy turkey day! Justin.

Are you yelling at us? That's some big type.:D

You will probably have to try and find the build sheet to know exactly what engine was in the car. The tach or even complete dash could have been replaced in the cars lifetime.

It's your car now, you can make it whatever you want it to be.:thumbsup:

No, I am NOT yelling at anyone. I used the big type so I can see it. I guess I need glasses. Then it won't appear that I'm yelling, sorry....I understand what your saying about the fact that I can make the car whatever I want but, what I want is to have this car just like it came from the factory. I have had plenty of old muscle cars & I have changed some of them plenty. I still have my 1st gen. Camaro & it's a very nice & very fast car but, it's far from original. I ordered some books about Chevelle's they just haven't came in yet. If I find the answer I'm looking for I will post it to let you all know, just in case your interested, thanks!!! Justin.

what I want is to have this car just like it came from the factory.

Unless you can find the original engine ,it'll never be as born.
Now if your trying to make it as original as possible ,that's different.
As said ,tach could have been changed somewhere in the almost 40 years the cars been around ,so that's not a definite answer to anything.
You might post your S/N & Trim Tag so we can get an idea of mfg. location and the options shown.
If you feel better ,leave out the last 3 #'s of the vin .

If the trans is an M21 trans, and its the original trans to your car, then its either a 350 Hp or a 375 Hp car originally.

Look at the fuel lines and fuel tank. If there is a single 3/8" fuel line and the sending unit only has a single outlet then there is a good chance it was an L78 car originally. If there are two outlets, then it would have been either an L35 (325 Hp) or L34 (350 Hp).

It can be said that the sending unit could have been changed at some time, so you can also look at the fuel line clips. If they look like they were designed to hold two fuel lines, then again, it was probably not an L78 car. If the clips look to be single line clips, then it was probably an L78.

I have owned my car since 1988, and I never changed anything in these areas. I don't think anyone else before me would have gave a crap to change them either.

I had a similar situation as you, here are my links on my car....
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225962

Also, the PS pump pulley is different for L78 cars..
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240577

Again, the car will never be really original again, if the original motor is gone, but what I did was try and find a block that was an original suffix JD block with a correct casting date and was actually put in a Baltimore Chevelle two weeks before my car went down the line. I am going to keep the car, and never restamp the VIN on the engine. So this is as close as I could get to original.

Hope this helps.

Mike

I appreciate everyone's advice. I understand that without the original engine it will not be "as born" but, it will be "as close" as possible. Here are a few clues so that we can figure this car out. First I want everyone to know that the car has been in storage for approx. 25 yrs. I personally knew the previous owner. He worked on the car 20+ yrs. ago & kind of gave up on it, bad health, lost limbs. Anyway, I have kept up w/this car for the last 16 yrs. & Except for the engine & radio the car is complete. In all that time I've never seen any work being done to it. If any parts were removed or added or replaced it would have been done over 25 yrs. ago & I don't know how popular cloning was back then. In my opinion this car is original & almost complete, a true surivor that needs paint & an engine! The car has a 12 bolt posi rear, a muncie 4-speed, a muncie shifter & a bench seat (interior looks like new, after we cleaned it) it has disc brakes. Of course the factory tach. that red lines at 6,000 RPM. The cowl tag, starting from the top left reads: 69 13637 BAL 291*** 2nd line: TR 755 72 72 3rd line: 7E B L220820 The 4th line: " 8 " The "7 E" on the 3rd line are the only ones that are a little hard to read so I hope it's right. All of the other digits are ok. I'm really curious to find out what all of this means so please write back & let me know! I want to thank everyone in advance for their help, I do appreciate it very much! I will answer any questions & I will get some pics. up when I figure out the Photo Bucket. Thanks again! Justin.

Hi Mike,
Thanks for the fuel line tip & the M-21 tip. I just took a look under my car & there is only the one fuel line. If you want pics. of the line & clips I will be glad to send them to you. Send your email address, or you'll have to wait 'till I figure out Photo Bucket. The clips & fuel line look new as doe's the frame rails & floor pans. I guess that's to be expected from a car that's been in storage over 20 years! Thanks! Justin.

I forgot...the tranny is a M-21. Since the engine is missing I can see the tranny plain as day & it has one ring around the input shaft which makes it a M-21. Thanks again! Justin.

Justin, it sounds like you have an L78 candidate. As you may already know, your evidence will not seal the deal.

What you need to do is to start removing the interior pieces until you find a build sheet - maybe even look on the top of the fuel tank. It could be hidden in any number of spots: inside a seat, behind a trim panel, under the carpet, underneath the floor insulation, etc.

If you are serious about uncovering the truth of an L78 car, you will go through the effort.

Parts is parts. many long years ago I worked the counter at a large GM dealer. I sold tons of SS parts, some guys would convert every last detail. This was before numbers matching, build sheet, protecto plate cars were so valued. At that time, if the Chevelle had all the SS pieces in place, then it was an SS - regardless of how it was born.

Tell us when you find the build sheet.

Good luck, Thomas

If the car is as described regarding sitting in storage and not having been restored then I bet there is a build sheet or 2 hiding in there somewhere...



Easiest place to look is under the back seat. There are only two retainers that holds the metal frame of the rear seat and it will come right up. There is also a good chance that the gas tank BS survived as the car has sat in storage so long. Dooor panels and seat backs are also an easy place to check. Finally look under the carpet and sound proofing as there may be one there as well. I have also heard that they sometimes put them inside the front fenders but that has B&%CH written all over it to get to!!!



Good luck and it sounds like you may get lucky!!!

I appreciate everyone's advice. I understand that without the original engine it will not be "as born" but, it will be "as close" as possible. Here are a few clues so that we can figure this car out. First I want everyone to know that the car has been in storage for approx. 25 yrs. I personally knew the previous owner. He worked on the car 20+ yrs. ago & kind of gave up on it, bad health, lost limbs. Anyway, I have kept up w/this car for the last 16 yrs. & Except for the engine & radio the car is complete. In all that time I've never seen any work being done to it. If any parts were removed or added or replaced it would have been done over 25 yrs. ago & I don't know how popular cloning was back then. In my opinion this car is original & almost complete, a true surivor that needs paint & an engine! The car has a 12 bolt posi rear, a muncie 4-speed, a muncie shifter & a bench seat (interior looks like new, after we cleaned it) it has disc brakes. Of course the factory tach. that red lines at 6,000 RPM. The cowl tag, starting from the top left reads: 69 13637 BAL 291*** 2nd line: TR 755 72 72 3rd line: 7E B L220820 The 4th line: " 8 " The "7 E" on the 3rd line are the only ones that are a little hard to read so I hope it's right. All of the other digits are ok. I'm really curious to find out what all of this means so please write back & let me know! I want to thank everyone in advance for their help, I do appreciate it very much! I will answer any questions & I will get some pics. up when I figure out the Photo Bucket. Thanks again! Justin.

hmm.. originally monaco orange!? I'm not real sure about this but I have heard that color was only available on ss models or special order cars. sounds like you have find a good one! good luck on finding that build sheet! and when you do this may help http://www.chevelles.com/shop/options.html

Justin, you have more than enough "clues". Just start taking it apart until you find the buildsheet. At the minimum you have an SS, the build sheet will have the final evidence on being an L78.

Thomas

It is my experience that not many Baltimore cars had hidden build sheets. For what it is worth. Not to say that it isn't there, but don't be surprised after several days of taking things apart, that you don't find one. I hope you do find one though. You may find a few computer cards that will verify an option or two, but these aren't build sheets.

If you have a single 3/8" fuel line, you are almost there, if you have the two fuel lines (one feed, one return), it is not an L78 car. If you want a 375 hp car, make it the way you want it. Original engine is gone, so do what you like.

Good luck and post some pictures when you can.

Woj.

I just want the engine to match the 6,000 rpm red line tach! All of these old cars have different red lines for different engines. 1st gen. Camaro, just like the Chevelle is that IF your lucky enough to have a built in factory tach. then it will red line at a certain RPM, it all depends on which engine you have. Let's say you have a 68 Camaro & it has a 6,000 red line tach, that means that the car is either a real Z-28 with a 302 engine OR it's a SS Camaro with the 375 HP. 396. Those were the only ones with that tach. I know Chevelle's just have to be the same OR at least very close BUT, what is it?? What Chevelle's came with a 6,000 red line tach.????????????????????? Thay's all I want to know! Thanks, Justin.

Justin,

Only the 69 L78 cars came with a 6000 rpm tach. I would assume the COPO 427s may have as well, but I haven't seen one yet.

Check to see if you have a single fuel line. If you have that and the tach. Go for the
L78 option.

Woj.

If you think the tach redline "proves" any car (Camaro, Chevelle, whatever) to be an original this or that, you are fooling only yourself. There are even several very well documented cars that came from the factory with the incorrect tach redline. You keep harping on this car being in storage for 25 years......since the car is 40 years old (or darn close to it), that means it was out and around for 15 years, and all kinds of stuff could have been changed around in those 15 years.

Given that it has the 6K tach redline and a single fuel line, it's certainly possible that it was originally a 396/375.....but unless you find a legit build sheet (as Phil says, very unlikely in a Baltimore built 69) or the original Protecto-Plate, you can't prove it.

That's a good point Bill. My L78 was ordered without a tach. In the early 70's, the third owner added the correct red line one and the tilt wheel from a wrecked L78.

Well Bill,
I think I understand what your trying to say but, you forgot a few things. If the tach. is a mistake & things were changed on the car then couldn't the fuel line be a fake as well? What about the build sheet & protecto plate? Their fake too, right? I think that action speaks louder than build sheets & internet chat rooms. I know what I need to do, see you on the road! Justin.

Ridiculous.

Ridiculous.

l:)l:)

Why do you say that? Maybe you can explain?

Why do you say that? Maybe you can explain?
Without a buildsheet everything is a guess. A lot of things could and have been changed in the 40 years since that car was built and you are trying to base everything on a tach.:noway:

You might try to contact previous owners to see if they have any original documents or pictures. It's possible one of those former owners has a dealer invoice or other paperwork that would verify what engine your Chevelle came with. Good luck with your project!

post some pics

What I have learned is....... There are exceptions to every rule about what was original. It was whatever the assembler had in his or her hand on to install in the vehicle!

The big block tach is one of them.

They assembled what they were told to assemble. The dash was assembled in another area of the plant and conveyed to the final line, those people never seen the cars. The person building the dash could have cared less what car it was going into, if they even knew. The built the assembly as the work sheet instructed them to do with the parts required.

Anyone can sugar coat this in some way to make it sound like it may have came originally. But when parts are so commonly swapped and replaced, there will never be a true way to honestly know for sure if it was original or not.

The best answer to this question is............

It is whatever you want it to be when you do not have the original paperwork or the original owner.

I have a 1969 Nova SS I was told it was a L78 car. It has all the signs of being an L78 but without the paperwork all it is ............. is something I enjoy driving and it's only worth as much as someone is willing to pay!

In the meantime I will be driving it like I stole it and enjoying every minute!

wow,quit being so hard on the kid,this car is no different than that 63 pontiac,that was no more than a shell of what it used to be. everybodys a hipocrate, you guys are the same jagoffs that worry about how correct each others car is. seems to have more clues that point to a l78,cant wait till he finds a buildsheet.

As it has been said, without a build sheet or other orginal documentation no one can tell you what engine the car originally came with.

just do what everybody else does restamp one.happens all the time!!!

wow,quit being so hard on the kid.

He's a kid?


this car is no different than that 63 pontiac,that was no more than a shell of what it used to be.

This car is TOTALLY different from that 63 Pontiac....once the VIN of that Pontiac was known, it had a complete history. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for Chevrolet products.



everybodys a hipocrate, you guys are the same jagoffs that worry about how correct each others car is.

We're hipocrates and jagoffs, and you're here hangin' around with us? :rolleyes:



cant wait till he finds a buildsheet.

It's been mentioned several times here, with a Baltimore built 69, the odds of finding a build sheet are slim to none.

If the original engine - L78 or not - is gone, this whole thread is really an exercise in futility and blather anyway, right? ... not that there's anything wrong with that. :p :boring: :D

If the original engine - L78 or not - is gone, this whole thread is really an exercise in futility and blather anyway, right? ... not that there's anything wrong with that. :p :boring: :D

Exactly my point!

That's a very good point! I understand completly. I guess I haven't been very clear as to what I want. One thing led to another & it kinda snow balled. Anyway...All I was wanting to know is what hp engine came with a 6,000 redline tach. I had a couple replies that said it was the 375 hp 396. Thats what I'm going to build. I don't care to prove anything!!! SS car, L-78 car, L-89 car ect. I already know it's a SS car from the 72 paint code & I really don't care about that either, I'm painting the car blue! I'm sorry for all the confussion & whatever else that came negative from this. No hard feelings to Bill no matter what he heard, & thanks for all the replies!!! Justin.

Thanks for your support !!! Justin.

Now, after all that, Git R Done! And let's see some pics ... :D

That's a very good point! I understand completly. I guess I haven't been very clear as to what I want. One thing led to another & it kinda snow balled. Anyway...All I was wanting to know is what hp engine came with a 6,000 redline tach. I had a couple replies that said it was the 375 hp 396. Thats what I'm going to build. I don't care to prove anything!!! SS car, L-78 car, L-89 car ect. I already know it's a SS car from the 72 paint code & I really don't care about that either, I'm painting the car blue! I'm sorry for all the confussion & whatever else that came negative from this. No hard feelings to Bill no matter what he heard, & thanks for all the replies!!! Justin.

Now after all that tough talking we have been throwing around your gonna get us all mushy and soft cause you sound like a nice guy :D

Good luck with your build and remember the most important thing............... be in it because you enjoy it if at the end you can break even consider yourself lucky.

End of rant!

I dont see anyone being hard on anyone in this post. Nobody is giving the guy a hard time or getting in his face. The car may be an L78 car, it may not be. Without any real documentation on it, there is no possible way to honestly know. In this hobby, the truth hurts at times but thats just how it goes when things are faked and cloned so often.