Well I tried to break in the new engine last night, but had/am having some problems. After putting everything together, priming it, and making sure all the gauges worked I poured a little gas down the carb to get her going, and cranked it over. It sputtered for a brief moment, pegged up to about 2100 for a second, and then all of a sudden it pegged up to 3400. I snapped the throttle trying to bring the rpm down, but then it just sputtered and died. I tried it two more times and it just did the same thing. I don't think it ran for more than 5 or 6 seconds during any one attempt. During this I had someone under the hood messing with the distributor and setting the idle screw. The idle screw was backed all the way off, so it's not that. The only thing I can think of is that maybe the distributor was a tooth off, and the carb isn't tuned right.

When "tuning" the carb all I did was screw the two fuel mixture screws all the way down, and then back them off 2 full turns. The carb is an Edelbrock 600 #1406. Does this sound about the right way to do it just to have it good enough for a break in period??? :confused:

I called the guy who built the engine and asked him for his advice, and he said that it sounds like the distributor is off. What do you guys think? How do I know when the distributor is in properly? Turning the distributor counter clockwise is retarding, and clockwise is advancing correct?

I mean could having the distributor in wrong cause it to rev that high when i'm not even giving it gas? Maybe I put too much gas down the carb when I was trying to start it up, so it was like it was running full throttle??? I'm at a loss here guys, can anyone help me? :(

Would I need to reprime the engine if I were to take another shot at it tonight? The last time I primed it was at about 11:00pm last night when I was trying to break it in. I'm guessing the neighbors weren't too happy..... except for maybe the other guy who has a chevelle. ;)

Thanks in advance guys....i'd really appreciate any advice you could give me. I'm itching in my boots to get this thing going now that it's finally all together.

Put distributor in again make sure motor is at tdc,and rotor is pointing to #1 on cap. Check carb linkage for binding.

Besides checking the distributor, you might check your fuel supply. It might of ran out of fuel. Is the fuel pump working? How are the floats? Just something else to think about.

Even though I admit that I've done it in the past, NEVER pour gasoline into the engine while trying to start it! That is unless you have a fire truck setting outside your door. One pop and you're on fire. Prime the carb with a very small funnel through the bowl vents, then move all open gas away from the car BEFORE the key goes ON. Full bowls will run the engine for about a minute or two, giving the pump enough time to catch up and take over. Sounds like you have a huge vacuum leak if it won't idle down below 3k.

I use those kids medicine dispensers to fill the front bowl.

Get the motor to 10 BTDC, Put a timing light on #1. Energize the ignition, and turn the distributor until it flashes. then you should be very close to 10 BDTC. That's all for the timing.

Your buddy underneath the hood probably moved the distributor ( or it moved itself) to get another 1000 rpms, so don;t over analyze it.

Get it to fire at 10 advanced, cinch it down, have him work the carb to keep the idleup to 2000 or checking for leaks.

Thanks for the advice guys. I had to put the distributor back in and set it a tooth back...counterclockwise. The engine started up again and did the same crap, but this time I had my dad under the hood....who knows what he's doing unlike the other guy. lol Took a couple tries but we got it running good and I was able to break the cam in properly. :D graemlins/hurray.gif graemlins/hurray.gif

427L88 - Thanks for the advice. We fired it up at 10 degrees advanced and it ran good. Unfortunately i'm going to have to pull the distributor again and move it another tooth back because I can't advance it more than 10 or 12 degrees. But at least she ran good during the break in.


During the break in the headers started glowing (just like last time graemlins/sad.gif ) so I turned the fuel mixture screws a couple of turns and richened it up some. It seemed to help because the headers seemed to glow a little less and the engine temp went down. Given that I don't know much at all about carbs I don't really know if it's set well for driving. I guess all I can do is take it for a spin and turn them a little bit one way or another until it starts to run better right? (after adjusting the distributor and putting it back in) Is there anyway I can know for sure that my air/fuel mixture is close to where it should be without getting a gauge? :confused: I'd buy one, but I don't have any money.

I checked to make sure it was getting fuel and that there wasn't any binding in the carb....all is well. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Thanks again for the replies guys! smile.gif

chances are if the headers were glowing it means your timing was way retarded--burning was taking place late. Check the timing again. Most air/fuel mixture screws should be set at 1 1/2 turns out as a baseline for startup then tune from there.

baddbob71 - I had the air/fuel mixture screws set at 2 full turns out. I think I turned them another 1 1/2 or 2 more turns outs. It seemed/seems to run ok....other than the timing....so I think i'm just going to leave it how it is until I get the timing set. After it's set then i'll mess with the air/fuel screws. Like I said before though.....I don't really know/understand how you know when they are about where they should be. I mean what do you judge it off of, and what should you look for to know it's about right? I'm pretty much lost when it comes to carbs. graemlins/clonk.gif

You NEED a vacuum gauge to properly set the air/fuel idle mixture.
Connect to full manifold vacuum, and adjust until you get the highest possible vacuum reading. Re-adjust the idle, and you're done.
As was previously mentioned, your glowing headers are from waaay retarded timing.

I'm gonna throw this out because I actually did this years ago and set my plug wires on fire.

You should NOT be able to see any discernable (noticeable) glow from your headers unless it's at night and you're in a place away from any lights...and even then it would be dim.

If you can see a glow to your headers in a lighted situation - even at night near a streetlight - then your timing is (as was said above) waaaaa retarded and you need to get it set properly.

Just trying to save you some financial pain, time, and frustration.

I'm gonna guess you got it in backwards and have moved it just enough to get it running. I did that one as well!

...it was a long, hard road to my crown of Automotive Genius that I presently hold! graemlins/clonk.gif

Turning the distributor counter clockwise is retarding, and clockwise is advancing correct?

No, just the opposite. Counter-clockwise to advance.


Emil Dusek
71 Chevelle SS-502

Insurance guy - Thanks. Just figured that out yesterday when I was timing it. graemlins/clonk.gif I never said I was a quick one. :D

Zman - Thanks. Manifold vacuum is the lower port on the carb correct? So just hook up the gauge, turn the fuel mixture screws until the vacuum goes up as far as possible, drops down, and then back it off a little bit so it's back to the most vacuum possible? I should be turning both screws evenly to do this correctly right? What amount of vacuum should I expect to get? Last question I swear :D ...... Should I let it warm up before doing this so that it holds a steady idle at 900?


I think the timing issue is taken care of now. I had to pull the distributor a couple of times and readjust it, but it's currently at 12 or 13 degrees advanced with room to spare for more. graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/hurray.gif

Thanks a bunch guys! smile.gif

If the idle mixture is close to correct on your carb the screws should be about 1 1/2 turns out give or take a 1/4. Having them 2,3,4 turns out means you've probably got one heck of a vacume leak or the timing is way retarded, also if it's running really rich you may have fuel burning in the exhaust causing the headers to glow. Somethings amiss here, don't drive this thing till you've got it figured out IMO

baddbob71- During the breakin I had the screws 2 turns out. The timing was at 10 degrees advanced during the breakin process. Since the headers started to glow I had the guy under the hood turn the screws out another 1.5, or maybe even 2 turns. Someone told me that if the headers are glowing like that, assuming everything else is good, then the car is running too lean. Obviously I don't know a whole lot about carbs, so I went with their advice and had the screwed backed out more during the process. I mean more than the 2 initial turns out.

I'm going to take the vacuum gauge to it tomorrow and adjust the fuel/air mixture screws. Hopefully someone can chime in on my last few questions on my last reply to give me a hand with this. Like I said, the timing is at 12 or 13 degrees right now and i'll adjust the carb to the best of my abilities. The car seems to run well right now, and it idles at 900, so that's good. Given this (and after adjusting the carb) all should be good right? Or am I missing something? Should I be checking/adjusting the valves/rockers or anything else like that now that it's broken in? This is the first time i've ever broken an engine in, so I just want to make sure i'm not forgetting or missing anything here. Any advice is greatly appreciated guys.

Thanks again smile.gif

Look, I burned up #6 and #8 pipes pretty good. Dulled te JetHot onall of them realy. Timing was spot on. Idle/mix was the same setup that came off the car.

Sometimes it just happens since the car is sitting still. No airflow?

All i know is, it happened, there's nothing wrong with any setting, and it hasn't happened again. Go figure.

It is not that unusual for the headers to glow during breakin & does not necessarily mean the engine is retarded.
Almost every engine I run on the dyno has the headers glowing until I put a load on it.
Not enough to see in bright light but no problem seeing it in the dark or near dark.
You can stick about 45-50 degrees in the engine temporarily until you get done breaking in the cam & it will help keep the heat in the chamber,, just don't load the engine.
You are running the engine at 2000+ RPM with NO LOAD.
This is going to make the thing lean.
You have a ton of vacuum with very little throttle opening so the carb is being fooled.
If you put a load on the engine you are going to have to open the butterflies further & start pulling on the main circuit & with enough load the power valve is going to open & richen it up.
A carb is not designed to run at 2000 rpm with no load, it has no idea what to do.
Now,,, if you are seeing them glow in the middle of the day outside you may have a bit of a problem & want to check your tune up :D

My headers were clearly glowing in a semi light/dark garage. Do you think this would have hurt anything internally? I drained the oil today and it was really dark and cloudy looking with a small amount of fine shavings. I'm guessing the cloudyness and being dark is normal right? Given that the assembly lube and all has been run through it.

If I turn the lights off in the dyno room it isn't any darker than under a hood in a garage & I can easily see the headers glowing.

The grey in your oil sounds like moly paste.
What do you mean by "shavings"??
If you have "fine shavings" you need to cut your filter open, spread it out & see what it looks like.
Shouldn't be any metal in the oil you drained. but you will likley find a little in the filter along with lint & crap but what I consider shavings would certanily concern me :(

I have a magnetic drain plug in it and I noticed there there were a little bit of metal shavings on it. They were really small pieces, not like small slices/shavings of steel. More like what you would get if you filed a piece of steel down. I still have to pour the oil out of the collection pan and see what it looks like. After that i'll cut open the filter and see what's inside. Is there a better way of doing this other than using tin snips? I just don't want to get metal into the filter when i'm cutting it open and then think that it's from the engine.

Thanks

Originally posted by 71chevy0192:
I have a magnetic drain plug in it and I noticed there there were a little bit of metal shavings on it. They were really small pieces, not like small slices/shavings of steel. More like what you would get if you filed a piece of steel down. I still have to pour the oil out of the collection pan and see what it looks like. After that i'll cut open the filter and see what's inside. Is there a better way of doing this other than using tin snips? I just don't want to get metal into the filter when i'm cutting it open and then think that it's from the engine.

Thanks =
That sounds more like crap that was trapped in the pan or somewhere when the engine was assembled.
No matter how clean you think it is you will almost always find some garbage especially in the filter the first time you fire the engine.
We clean the livin crap out of everything & I am still amazed at the stuff I sometimes find in the filter after breakin :eek:
You will know more when you look at the filter.
I use a system one when on the dyno so I can take the filter apart cause I'm lazy :D
They make a cutter for the filters that is sorta like a pipe cutter which is handy to have but you can just stab a hole in it with a screwdriver close to the top & cut it with tin snips.
Messy,, but whatever works ;)

I like to have the open end of the filter down when I cut. That way, anything up high after I cut was probably from the engine. You'll probably see tons of cam lube inside the end of the oil filter canister.

Don't get too freaked out by the headers glowing. They have to get pretty hot 1650+ before the valves have gotten hot enough to be damaged. They start to glow around 1200 or so. Obviously, if the timing is retarded you should fix that problem. We see them glowing enough that we don't even give it a second thought.

Mike

Once the metal can is cut off the filter I usually cut the filter paper off and wrap it in clean paper towels then squish it in a vise. The filter paper opens up like an accordian and you can see exactly what is in there. Looking at the filter media wet will sometimes hide some of the particles. A small magnet can then be used to seperate the iron/steel from aluminum and copper babbit. A friend of mine built a 400 Pontiac once and never scrubbed and brushed the block before assembly-(the machine shop told him it was clean). He had metal shavings show up in his oil filters for four oil changes then it was clean after that. I'm sure it wasn't good for the pump.

Cool. I'll just punch a hole in it with a screwdriver or something and then take the tin snips to it.

baddbob71 - Good idea.

I'll find out what it looks like tomorrow (too busy and tired today to do it) and see what you guys think. Thanks again