Hey guys, I got talked out of my turbo motor so I need cam suggestions for a N/A powered 406 or 418 stroker I am building for my little 280z car. It will weigh about 2800-3000lbs after the roll cage installation (without myself, another 300lbs). The rear has 3.73:1 gears w/posi. The car can fit a max tire diameter of 26", so I'll be running a 26/10.5/15 slick.

Here are the basic engine specs:

-SBC 400, 2 bolt block, 0.020" overbore (4.145"). The three center mains are being machined for billet steel splayed main caps
-ARP main studs will be used on all inter holes.
-Dart aluminum Pro 1 215cc heads w/2.05/1.65" SS valves
-SCAT 4340 Forged Steel 3.875" stroke w/400 mains
-SCAT 6.0" 4340 H-Beam rods
-Ross Forged Pistons, 10.5:1 compression
-Edelbrock Super Victor Intake Manifold
-Holley 750-800 cfm double pumper (tweaked/tuned and choke horn milled off)
-1.75" Full Length headers
-TH350 w/3500 ATI, Trans-Specialities, or Coan converter


I'd prefer to keep the engine under 7100 RPM and the stall speed of the converter less than 3500 RPM. I haven't bought the pistons yet, so the compression can be changed. The cam I want will be a Lunati/UltraDyne solid flat tappet grind. I figured something in the .550" lift/250dur@0.050", 110-108 LSA range.

I also figured having a fat cam it will bleed off some compression so I'll get away with 91 octane for street driving, but 100 octane will be in the tank when racing (just to be sure). I would like to make at least 500HP, if not more. My goals are to get this car into the 10's.

Think its possible?

Thanks guys!!

No more turbo?

Originally posted by Slowpoke70:
No more turbo? Everyone is telling me the block won't hold up for my 700HP goals.

I'd rather not spend all that money and have to de-tune to keep it from killing itself. I figure I can build a stout 406 or 418 and make 500HP, then squeeze if I want alittle more at the track.

Maybe the motor after this I'll go turbo w/Dart block.

285-2M @.050 I 250° .533 lift 106° Lobe Sep
E 260° .555 lift
I opens @.050 21°btdc closes abdc 49°
E @.050 58°bbdc closes atdc 22°
Part #WG 5083 grind #285-2M
This stick is suprisingly drivable my customer runs mid 10's on a 150 shot w/3:73's and a 10 super holeshot converter in a gbody Bu.
peaks out around 7300 in a 365 cube motor.

I was looking at the 401C3LUN (259/267 0.551/0.551", 110LSA).

Then use a tight 3500 stall converter?

Well since you were concidering running a turbo you must have a fairly big budget or none ot all, so as for heads id look at some 215cc M2 ported Brodix track 1's. Try for 11:1 compression with the short block. Maybe try a super victor, and the cam choice is yours. Probably in the 25X/26X @.050 range. Just a thought but i bet it would be an ass kicker. But i also see you dont want to go past 7,000. So maybe you should scrap the 377 idea and get a 3.75" crank, go with a 406. Just some thoughts

Originally posted by Nickel333:
.....as for heads id look at some 215cc M2 ported Brodix track 1's.

But i also see you dont want to go past 7,000. So maybe you should scrap the 377 idea and get a 3.75" crank, go with a 406. Just some thoughts The M2's are close to $2500 complete. I can get the Dart's for $1100 to my door.

As far as the engine size, I have received similar comments from other sites. I am not against building a 406, in fact I might build a 418, 400 stroker.

The 401C3LUN will require a loose 3500 SS converter, and is a little big for a gear ratio around 3.5:1. However, it is dead-on reliable, and makes over 525 BHP in 12:1 355s on very conservative dynos.
A choice you may like is my old 283/283F8, it is a single-pattern cam, great for 7000 and under, 283° at .020", 255° at .050, 166° at .200", .550" gross valve lift(.534" net lift), and 108° LSA. Lat year it finished 2nd overall in the Winston amatuer championship--nationwide, of course. It would have good power from 3000 on up to 7000, and probably a little over that.
The 285-2M is a version of the Comp Cams 285B6, which is the same as the Crane 285/295-06. Both these companies have the legal right to manufacture and sell that profile, as they both inherited it from the old Cam Dynamics company, Comp got it when it split off from CD, Crane got it when they bought CD a few years later.
The 285B6, etc, is 250/260 at .050, 156/164 at .200, .533/.555 valve lift, and 106 LSA. Please remember that my 283/283 is 166/166 at .200........
The 283/283 has a regular Lunati part number in the 401B. series, but I don't have my catalog handy......

UDHarold

Originally posted by UDHarold:
The 401C3LUN will require a loose 3500 SS converter, and is a little big for a gear ratio around 3.5:1. However, it is dead-on reliable, and makes over 525 BHP in 12:1 355s on very conservative dynos.
A choice you may like is my old 283/283F8, it is a single-pattern cam, great for 7000 and under, 283° at .020", 255° at .050, 166° at .200", .550" gross valve lift(.534" net lift), and 108° LSA. Lat year it finished 2nd overall in the Winston amatuer championship--nationwide, of course. It would have good power from 3000 on up to 7000, and probably a little over that.

The 283/283 has a regular Lunati part number in the 401B. series, but I don't have my catalog handy......

UDHarold 401B3LUN?

What kind of power could I expect from this cam in a 406?

Also, could I get this cam in a reduced base circle version?

Originally posted by bluerebl:
The M2's are close to $2500 complete. I can get the Dart's for $1100 to my door.

That's kinda like comparing a Chevette to a Corvette :D

Cable,

A 355 with 12.5:1 and some well-ported 210 AFRs will make over 525 HP at 7000 with this cam on a very conservative dyno. If your 406 made the same hp per CID, you're looking at about 600 HP. Then if you factor in an liberal dyno.......

And of course you can get it as a small base circle cam, just ask when you order one....

UDHarold

Originally posted by Wolfplace:
That's kinda like comparing a Chevette to a Corvette :D How so Mike?


Originally posted by UDHarold:
Cable,

A 355 with 12.5:1 and some well-ported 210 AFRs will make over 525 HP at 7000 with this cam on a very conservative dyno. If your 406 made the same hp per CID, you're looking at about 600 HP. Then if you factor in an liberal dyno.......

And of course you can get it as a small base circle cam, just ask when you order one....

UDHarold That's great Harold, I'll be calling you soon. Any idea what it will cost me before shipping?

So if that 355 peaked at 7000 for HP, what would a 406 peak at? (or RPM shift point)

Oh, anything special needed for break-in?

Originally posted by bluerebl:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wolfplace:
[qb] That's kinda like comparing a Chevette to a Corvette :D How so Mike?

You are comparing a top of the heap fully CNC ported head that flows over 300cfm to a generic off the shelf head,, there is no comparison ;)

Well actually, I kinda like my comparison :D

Originally posted by Wolfplace:
You are comparing a top of the heap fully CNC ported head that flows over 300cfm to a generic off the shelf head,, there is no comparison ;)

Well actually, I kinda like my comparison :D Nope, I was comparing the $1500 price diff between a head that will do the kob nicely to a head that is way over the top for a little street/strip car. :D

I have no doubt the M2 is a bad-ass head, its just out of my league. :(

Speaking of the Pro 1's, should I get them with 2.05's or 2.08's?

Looks like we have very similar combos going together Your car is a touch lighter and a little less gear but I run a 28" tire so our effective ratios are pretty close.
This is the custom grind that was suggested to me by Dave Crower. I plan on 200-250 shot with a progressive control hence he 112

Solid flat tappet
in 283 adv. 252 @50
ex 296 avd. 264 @50
in .600 with 1.7 rocker
ex .597 with 1.6 rocker
112 separation installed on a 108 centerline

I plan on running this untill I can afford to go with a roller. Of course I should need a real block by then.

Originally posted by bluerebl:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wolfplace:
You are comparing a top of the heap fully CNC ported head that flows over 300cfm to a generic off the shelf head,, there is no comparison ;)

Well actually, I kinda like my comparison :D Nope, I was comparing the $1500 price diff between a head that will do the kob nicely to a head that is way over the top for a little street/strip car. :D

I have no doubt the M2 is a bad-ass head, its just out of my league. :(

Speaking of the Pro 1's, should I get them with 2.05's or 2.08's? </font>[/QUOTE]Yea, the M2 kick ass,, very nice stuff & I have pretty good pricing on them but still not real cheap.

Which head are you using? The difference between 205's & 208's is pretty negligible for most stuff & I would probably go with the 2.05 as it will usually flow a little better at low lift in a Dart head.

Have you considered AFR's or Race Rites? They are a little more but both are pretty nice heads
email me & I will send you the pricing,,

Originally posted by Wolfplace:
Have you considered AFR's or Race Rites? They are a little more but both are pretty nice heads
emil me & I will send you the pricing,, I did look at the AFR 210's (AFR Part Number 1052).

You have email.

Originally posted by UDHarold:
The 401C3LUN will require a loose 3500 SS converter, and is a little big for a gear ratio around 3.5:1. However, it is dead-on reliable, and makes over 525 BHP in 12:1 355s on very conservative dynos.
A choice you may like is my old 283/283F8, it is a single-pattern cam, great for 7000 and under, 283° at .020", 255° at .050, 166° at .200", .550" gross valve lift(.534" net lift), and 108° LSA. Lat year it finished 2nd overall in the Winston amatuer championship--nationwide, of course. It would have good power from 3000 on up to 7000, and probably a little over that.
The 285-2M is a version of the Comp Cams 285B6, which is the same as the Crane 285/295-06. Both these companies have the legal right to manufacture and sell that profile, as they both inherited it from the old Cam Dynamics company, Comp got it when it split off from CD, Crane got it when they bought CD a few years later.
The 285B6, etc, is 250/260 at .050, 156/164 at .200, .533/.555 valve lift, and 106 LSA. Please remember that my 283/283 is 166/166 at .200........
The 283/283 has a regular Lunati part number in the 401B. series, but I don't have my catalog handy......

UDHarold Same cam with a 418 stroker (3.875" stroke) or something bigger?

Thanks again Harold.

Cable,

The 401B3LUN works just fine in the larger engines, remembering of course that the short exhaust lobe cuts into top-end, while really packing in the mid-range torque.
It will also need a small base circle cam, and we generally go.100" under for 406s, probably .125" for the 3.875" crank. You just need to make sure you specify your stroke when you order.
These cams have lots of 'moxie' under 7000 in the big engines, they just need more exhaust if you want 7500 power.

UDHarold

Originally posted by UDHarold:
Cable,

The 401B3LUN works just fine in the larger engines, remembering of course that the short exhaust lobe cuts into top-end, while really packing in the mid-range torque.
It will also need a small base circle cam, and we generally go.100" under for 406s, probably .125" for the 3.875" crank. You just need to make sure you specify your stroke when you order.
These cams have lots of 'moxie' under 7000 in the big engines, they just need more exhaust if you want 7500 power.

UDHarold Thanks Harold, any idea what the cam will cost on the .125" under cam circle? (ball park w/o shipping)

I don't think I have to worry, I planned on 7000 being the max RPM.

Cable,

I'll try to have you the answer tomorrow. I don't have a current price sheet, or even an old one, at the house.

UDHarold

Originally posted by UDHarold:
Cable,

I'll try to have you the answer tomorrow. I don't have a current price sheet, or even an old one, at the house.

UDHarold No biggie, what's you contact number at Lunati? I'll call you in the morning.