http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110306170567#description

When he first listed this car on ebay, he had no idea what it was. Now he has a lot more to look forward to than just the hundred dollars or so it was worth if he took it to the scrap yard. :hurray:

thats pretty cool... now that they pretty much have it identified, i wonder what it will really bring?

Looks like the original aluminum front clip is owned by another party...
Someone apparently has the correct, original? motor for the car as well.

The story is almost too good to be true...someone should write a book with the cars intent, rarity and production, racing history, life after retirement, serendipitous discovery, the discovery of the aluminum front end which was some guys relic of a historic car that once was..., and finally the resurrection and new found fame...

this car is the second car known of the 6 that were built...not to mention that this particular car was renowned as the fastest tempest known

Wow, this blows my mind...

Thats a cool find.

WOW I had no Idea those were even built. I just traded off a 62 tempest for the vega after wards a bunch of local pontiac guys told me I was nuts and that the pontiac was worth more then the vega. I just smiled and said not to me it wasnt. so to me what a car is worth is all in what you are willing to take for it. mine was worth a vega lol.

Awesome, this stuff is still out there in MI....

ok someone feel me in on this. what exactly is, or was it? I've never heard of one. :confused:

WOW I had no Idea those were even built. I just traded off a 62 tempest for the vega after wards a bunch of local pontiac guys told me I was nuts and that the pontiac was worth more then the vega. I just smiled and said not to me it wasnt. so to me what a car is worth is all in what you are willing to take for it. mine was worth a vega lol.

I think that your decision was a wonderful thing...
You have your vega and someone with an appreciation for the 62 tempest will have something they consider special...there you have it...a win, win situation. nothing like a successful business deal...

e-mail me with information on any other old cars you might have...maby we can stike another win, win situation!!

ok someone feel me in on this. what exactly is, or was it? I've never heard of one. :confused:

its 1 of 9 factory race cars, and only a couple of those are known to still exist.

ok someone feel me in on this. what exactly is, or was it? I've never heard of one. :confused:

Here's the short story.

http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2008/05/01/hmn_feature9.html

Even the Hemmings article isn't the whole story, as there were 14 SD Tempests built, not 12. There were two "early production" Tempest sedans built, (cheaper trim than the LeMans versions) one Yorktown Blue and the other Silvermist Grey, 6 LeMans coupes and 6 Tempest wagons. The 6 LeMans coupes and 6 Tempest wagons were all white.

WOW !!!! The good Ol days. I remember........
$55,500 so far....Anyone have an idea what its really worth as is?

WOW !!!! The good Ol days. I remember........
$55,500 so far....Anyone have an idea what its really worth as is?
It's worth what someone is willing to pay for it. There weren't many built and even fewer left so there haven't been any comparison sales to put a value on it.

I believe it is worth alot, don't know dollar figure, call Barrett Jackson for an appraisal, a friend of mine did a nice job of cloning one of these, sold it nov. 2007, for $40k, yours is worth alot more, very nice find.

Getting some big coin for that car.

Wow, what a rare car. The SD 421 engines were normally in the big cars......a very cool piece of history.

I bet it breaks $100k.

Wow, unbelieveable! Bet someone bidding has the parts to put that one together. To bad its been cut up so much.

so how can you tell if it is the real deal? Is there a letter or number in the vin that lets you know? obviously this one is real, hint the price, but others, how could you know without docs?

so how can you tell if it is the real deal? Is there a letter or number in the vin that lets you know? obviously this one is real, hint the price, but others, how could you know without docs?

This is the magic number.

http://i21.ebayimg.com/06/i/001/18/90/27ca_1.JPG

It's the serial number published in one of the Pontiac books as being one of the 6 1963 LeMans 421 Super Duty coupes that were built.

Here are the other pictures (including the vin tag picture) http://cgi.ebay.com/WORTHLESS-PICTURES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ72179QQihZ001Q QitemZ110306497395QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW the seller posted since he ran out of space and couldn't get them all on the original auction.

Thats completely amazing. The guy just seemed to think he had a classic Pontiac Tempest then finds out its an extremely rare and highly sought after vintage race car. I can only imagine how amazed he was when he found out the news that was broken to him or when he started doing some digging and discovered his vin is one of the rare Tempests built.

Cant say I blame him though. To me it looks just like a regular Tempest, I would have never put 2 and 2 together. I wonder if someone broke the news to him or if he found it himself? How sweet of a find is that. If I had it I would be quite tempted to restore it instead of selling it. Most would never have a chance to own a piece of history like that.

I'm so sick of everyone quoting this line "It's worth what someone is willing to pay for it." really? is it? LOL Seems like every other thread on here, someone has to throw that one liner out there, LOL.

the guy said he is listing the car for his brother-in-law

I wonder if he is getting a flat fee to list it or a percentage of the sale ? :)


very cool car. I think the 63 421 Tempest/Le Mans is the real "first musclecar". Although
not made in high volume like the 64 GTO, it still fits the "smaller car with bigger engine" definition of a musclecar and came before the GTO.

The real kicker is he had a buy it now for 4k earlier in the auction,until one guy actually checked the VIN off the original manifest and then the party started . There are a few guys looking for hair transplants right now because it had a steel front clip,which kept most people from looking further at it.. The orignal tow bar still attached would have been the first clue to dig deeper..

he will probably tell his brother in law it sold for the original buy it now price. and then he has the rest to himself:D

Its at US $74,100.00:thumbsup:

Is it really worth that without the rare, original drive train? Wow...

Since the orig Aluminum front clip is still known to exist, its possible the other peices are still around also..

I'll bet some back door deals to secure those peices are already being made by folks doing the bidding on the car body.

Since the orig Aluminum front clip is still known to exist, its possible the other peices are still around also..

I'll bet some back door deals to secure those peices are already being made by folks doing the bidding on the car body.

I'm sure you're right about that, Ben. This is Huge News among the Factory Drag Car nuts - and they do seem to have some money to spend.

Phone lines are Smokin' and Bandwith is a Blazin' on this cool find.


Dan

what with that vin tag,it has 4 extra tack welds or rivits on it (it has the 2 that are symetrical then 2 on each side) could it have been installed on this perticular car. the car does not have the original engine,but someone says they know where it is at (im sure a restamped one may be what there hinting to) no aluminum clip (could they have made more than on set for each car and some has one laying around.) and if it is a low milage race only car why would onybody put a 326 emblem on the trunk? something doesnt look right to me,i am no pontiac expert. by looking at the pictures how can you tell if its real?

80,000 +

im sure within a year or so it will be a "restored " car with the correct (restamped everything) that some jagoff will be paying millions for at barrett jackson,what a joke!!!

what with that vin tag, it has 4 extra tack welds or rivits on it (it has the 2 that are symetrical then 2 on each side) could it have been installed on this perticular car. the car does not have the original engine, but someone says they know where it is at (im sure a restamped one may be what there hinting to) no aluminum clip (could they have made more than on set for each car and some has one laying around.) and if it is a low milage race only car why would anybody put a 326 emblem on the trunk? something doesnt look right to me,i am no pontiac expert. by looking at the pictures how can you tell if its real?

Even assuming that it is posible to fake a car like this, (which I really doubt) 326 emblems came on these Tempests from the factory, not 421 emblems, the back half of the car matches old pictures, the dent in the rear bumper, the torn off Champion decal, the steel cover for the transaxle in the trunk, the decal in the trunk, the rarer than rare stainless steel headers (with dump pipes attached) the plexiglass windshield, the 1963 pictures of the original Stan Long sold Lemans, plus the opinion of Scott Teimann (the guy that restored the Union Park station wagon), all point to one thing. That this is the original lost Stan Antlocer car. This Tempest has too many rare and impossible to fake parts and matches too many of the old pictures not to be real.

You guys should expand your knowledge base, buy some Pontiac history books and read them. Pontiac was selling hard core race cars back in the late 50's and throughout the 60's, even though GM didn't authorize a lot of it. If this car does get restored and shows up at B-J it will likely be the most real car there (but that's just my opinion).

Even assuming that it is posible to fake a car like this, (which I really doubt) 326 emblems came on these Tempests from the factory, not 421 emblems, the back half of the car matches old pictures, the dent in the rear bumper, the torn off Champion decal, the steel cover for the transaxle in the trunk, the decal in the trunk, the rarer than rare stainless steel headers (with dump pipes attached) the plexiglass windshield, the 1963 pictures of the original Stan Long sold Lemans, plus the opinion of Scott Teimann (the guy that restored the Union Park station wagon), all point to one thing. That this is the original lost Stan Antlocer car. This Tempest has too many rare and impossible to fake parts and matches too many of the old pictures not to be real.

You guys should expand your knowledge base, buy some Pontiac history books and read them. Pontiac was selling hard core race cars back in the late 50's and throughout the 60's, even though GM didn't authorize a lot of it. If this car does get restored and shows up at B-J it will likely be the most real car there (but that's just my opinion).


I'm not trying to sound like a smart a$$ but we are asking questions to expand our knowledge. :thumbsup: The car is amazing though!! I cant wait to see it restored back to its glory days.

I have to say...Michigan may not be the French Riviera of the USA but we have some of the most incredible forgotten automotive history just waiting to be rediscovered....

I cant tell you how many rare muscle cars I know of in my area. I know of a one owner COPO 69 camaro that he won't get off of. I have a theory of why there are so many of these cars around here. Back in the 50's 60's & 70's GM was a MAJOR employer around here. You had guys fresh out of high school in the late 60's going to work there first thing they did was go buy a muscle car. I know a lot of guy's that did this. a lot of them got blown up & beat to death but a lot of them are still around. One example is the Yellow ZL-1 number 3 that car spent a lot of time here in my town I know the owner that had it in the early 70's. A lot of muscle car history around here.

where can we see old photos of this car?

A agree with buying some pontiac history books.......there is some pretty cool pontiac stuff that factory sponsered racers were only able to get. Also, most people don't know that pontiac also made a "cammer" engine.

Some info about the Super Duty Tempest

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1961-1963-pontiac-tempest9.htm

This is a model it shows what the special transaxle looks like. The ebay car is missing it and the special rope driveline, 3/4" larger diameter that he standard rope, both are unique to the SD. OK the transaxle was removed in 64 by the original owner.

http://www.legacydiecast.com/product_images/h6150149_8.jpg

This is not the ebay SD

http://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/1963_Pontiac_LeMans_Tempest_Super_Duty_Detroit_Dra gway_1.jpg

This is the ebay SD
http://www.yenko.net/attachments/366693-sd-1.jpg

Again here's the Hemmings article.

http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/2008/05/01/hmn_feature9.html

where can we see old photos of this car?

Here' a link he posted in on the auction page.

http://www.yenko.net/attachments/366693-sd-1.jpg

Once you get to the page, move your mouse down to the right lower corner of the picture. When the arrow shows up, click on it and the page will enlarge.

the rarer than rare stainless steel headers (with dump pipes attached)

Are you sure they are not Aluminum?

I love eBay but even I must admit it was getting kinda stale. Same old stuff week after week. But this is very cool and exciting.

I never knew these cars existed. Happy for the guy.

" Q:
I been watching this since day 1. I am so happy for you and happy for all the Old Pontiac guys who are so thrilled about this recovery- myself included. You seem to have handled this deal so well, i bet you are exhausted. dont let any zero bidders scum screw this up for you. good luck!


Nov-07-08 A:
4 DAYS OF NO SLEEP, THINK I'LL RETRACT ALL BIDS AND BURY IT ON THE CADILLAC RANCH IN TEXAS LOL"




yeah I think he should do that. the cadillac ranch is about 5 miles from me. i'll go dig it out and put it back on ebay!:D

Extreme cars will have extreme auctions.

The 421 Tempest/Le Mans is what I would call one of the “ extreme” factory racecars.

Detroit didn’t build many cars that went to such an extreme level to win drag races.
It is extreme for two reasons. One is that it is a “factory lightweight” with special built alum parts and the other is the big engine and prototype 4-speed transaxle.
This must have been an expensive project for Pontiac.

Chevy did this with the 1963 Z-11 light weight drag car with special 427 W engine and special built alum parts.

These were radical cars that were built to race and they couldn’t hide the racing parts as a “trailer towing package” or an “export option” as they did with some heavy-duty parts.

Other “ extreme” factory racecars are the ZL1 Camaros, Hemi Dart and Barracuda, T-bolt Fords, other factory F/X cars, etc.

Pontiac also made a "swiss cheese" Catalina back in the early sixties that had an all aluminum front end that was built just for drag racing. The only one I have ever seen was at the Street Machine Nationals in Sacramento, CA in 1982 and had a big sign on the fenders that said "please do not lean on the fenders, they are aluminum" and had all kinds of holes drilled into the frame, hence the name swiss cheese. Also saw my first Pontiac Can Am at that same show. Pretty rare car for '77 model year, only 1137 made, though I've also heard the # was 1377. I owned a Can Am for about 14 years and sold it to put the $ into the SS. Supposed to be 5000 made, but the machine that made the spoiler broke and they didn't re-tool in time to make the full 5000 because they were tooling up for a new body style for '78. 64elkynss

An amzing find. Just goes to show ya never know what might still be out there!

Here's hoping this Rare Bird goes to someone who will give it the Historical Preservation it deserves, instead of being ripped apart and "restored" into a high-dollar replica of itself. We shall see.

-mike

without the front end or motor its nothing more than a conversation piece,im sure it will be restored,but with restamped components!!

Believe me, very few others share your opinion. That is a big bucks car all day long. I doubt any restamped parts will be installed on it, since it's drawn so much publicity in unrestored form.

its just a shell of a car (until one of these "restoration" shops get their hand on it) yeah they claim someone has the front end (but will he sell it) and if they cant find the motor (im sure they wont tell anybody that) they will restamp something,its worth too much not to.yeah its a big bucks car.hey many ls6 are restamped all the time.when was the last time you saw someone even talking about restamping a 307 malibu.

The point I was trying to make is that this car doesn't NEED to be restamped. Having the original body with VIN tag is enough for it to draw huge $$ restored. My understanding is that the original motor exists. Like you said, though, no guarantee that it can be bought.

I think the bottom line is that it's amazing this car still exists, and the bidding proves its value is patently obvious to some, despite being a shell of its former self.

The point I was trying to make is that this car doesn't NEED to be restamped. Having the original body with VIN tag is enough for it to draw huge $$ restored. My understanding is that the original motor exists. Like you said, though, no guarantee that it can be bought.

I think the bottom line is that it's amazing this car still exists, and the bidding proves its value is patently obvious to some, despite being a shell of its former self.

Agreed, a lot of these factory race cars and supercars don't have original engines, most of them were grenaded a long, long time ago. The car in this form makes no excuses, but it will make a great story once restored!

wow and i thought finding that healey was lucky

someone found the front clip in florida that was original to it http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578923&page=5

post 94

here is a neat website with pontiac race cars form 1963

http://www.1963pontiac.com/book.htm

$226,521.63 wow

Pontiac : Le Mans
Winning bid: US $226,521.63

$226,000 HOLY COW.. It just might have been Jay Leno to buy this car!

:eek:$226,521.63!!!!!!!!!!! holy moly. with 8 sec it was at 92,000 and then just like that it jumped up at 226 thousand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wow. that is outrageous.

What a finish ...fun to watch:hurray:

It would surprise me if leno didn't buy the car. Then immediately recover all the original missing parts at any price.

Good chunk of change...Goes to show that significant cars continue to bring good money. The life story of this car including the restoration process and the final product should make it on the speed channel...

Too bad the economy is so horrible, eh?
I doubt Leno is the buyer, based on their other purchases.
It was a fun auction, that's for sure.
I'll buy a copy of the book and a DVD of the movie about this car, indeed.
Those were the days!!

$226,521.63 !!!!!

I thought the performance car market was crashed and the country was in a depression with soup lines everywhere.;)


Randy

$226,521.63 !!!!!

I thought the performance car market was crashed and the country was in a depression with soup lines everywhere.;)


Randy

Hey Randy,

I'm ready for another good auction...why don't you throw that black 66 L78 on e-bay:D

I love this from before he knew what he had:

"THE WINDSHIELD IS PLEXIGLASS AND THE CAR DOES NOT HAVE ORIGIONAL WINDSHIELD AND FOR THAT REASON I WILL ALLOW ALL BIDDERS BEFORE NOVEMBER 2ND TO RETRACT BIDS OR I WILL CANCEL THEIR BID IF REQUESTED."

And how his other auction is for a lot of 11 Micromachines. I bet he's sitting on pins and needles waiting to see how that one turns out. :D

I was surprised ebarf showed the final winner,
ccsi2000 (http://myworld.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ccsi2000/)http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif( 1462 (http://feedback.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=ccsi2000&iid=250312752697&ftab=FeedbackAsBuyer)1462 (http://feedback.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=ccsi2000&iid=250312752697&ftab=FeedbackAsBuyer)http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/icon/iconRedStar_25x25.gif) http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifthe winner also paid $16K for this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250312752697)

Hey Randy,

I'm ready for another good auction...why don't you throw that black 66 L78 on e-bay:D

That probably would be a pretty good auction to watch, too.:D

Nowhere NEAR that kind of money, though.

Randy

.......http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifthe winner also paid $16K for this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250312752697)


I'd guess this guy, ccsi2000, is a real Pontiac collector !! :thumbsup:

it looks like Scott Tiemanns is the new owner off the car. Sounds like he is a big Poncho guy and will restore it right.

Scotts not the new owner, but he will do the resto.

wow I bet hes going to have a good christmas!

Is this serious? I think that is the most odd thing I have ever seen happen...No Joke.

Seller will take 3000 for the car and then it brings 226k....so much for bad economy.

Pretty cool story!

Good chunk of change...Goes to show that significant cars continue to bring good money. The life story of this car including the restoration process and the final product should make it on the speed channel...


With no resto parts, drivetrain or the front end! :beers:

Respectfully,
John R.

I read that the only other SD coupe (restored) changed hands for 700k, if that is true, than this probably wasn't as insane as it appears.

One of a kind muscle/drag car and the buyer at this amount is not bothered by the economy at all. Like a couple of the guys at BJ all the time. They measure in their money in number of millions they havem not the number of thousands or hundred thousands.

I read that the only other SD coupe (restored) changed hands for 700k, if that is true, than this probably wasn't as insane as it appears.

NOPE!- Scott Tieman of super car specialties will have minium of 2500 hours in this plus parts & Materials. it will be a big bill but this car will bring huge $$$$$. I didnt think Tieman bought it though, his old partner Nyle Wing of "Wings Auto Art" lives/shop is just minutes from Scotts house/shop and Nyle would have let us all know.:yes:

I know one thing... I can't wait to see the finished product! Hopefully it will make it's way to the York US30 Nostalgia show in years to come.

wow 226k.

http://www.bushautoblog.com/2008/11/rusty-1963-pontiac-lemans-tempest-sells.html

just like you die hard Ls6 guys say, it aint worth nothing without the original drivetrain.this car doesnt have the front end or motor,and just as i thought it will soon be going to the restoration shop to get its RESTAMPERATION done.lol i think i just invented a new word!!!

Of course, the original engine is great to have but it does not always mean a lot on certain types of cars such as historic old drag cars.

1963 was a wild year for GM racing activity and this car is part of that History no matter what condition it is in.

They had the 421 Tempest/Le Mans, the Z11 Impala 427 lightweight, The 427 "mystery engine" NASCAR Impala, The 427 "mystery engine" Corvette, the Grand Sport Corvettes, the Chevy II/Nova road race fastback and other projects.

They also had the 421 Tempest that ran Daytona and blew everyone away in a Stock Car race with the road race cars. They mention it in the ad.

here is a picture of it running the high banks with AJ Foyt in a Z06 Corvette and a Mickey Thompson 427 "mystery engine" Corvette

Cool picture Joe :thumbsup:

Chevy12

With all due respect, I disagree with your comments.
There is a HUGE difference between 1 of 6 special factory race cars (2 remaining?) where they do tend to blow engines and someone with 1 of 10,000 LS-6 cars

A good friend had an Aluminum nose Chevy and now has a lightweight Dodge....
They bring a Prince's ransome!

Of course, the original engine is great to have but it does not always mean a lot on certain types of cars such as historic old drag cars.

1963 was a wild year for GM racing activity and this car is part of that History no matter what condition it is in.

They had the 421 Tempest/Le Mans, the Z11 Impala 427 lightweight, The 427 "mystery engine" NASCAR Impala, The 427 "mystery engine" Corvette, the Grand Sport Corvettes, the Chevy II/Nova road race fastback and other projects.

They also had the 421 Tempest that ran Daytona and blew everyone away in a Stock Car race with the road race cars. They mention it in the ad.

here is a picture of it running the high banks with AJ Foyt in a Z06 Corvette and a Mickey Thompson 427 "mystery engine" Corvette

I love that photo. Its very cool to see that tempest spanking those vettes. By the way,

I'm very much an original motor survivor car type of guy, but must admit, when you are talking about a race car with significant provenance, original motor is just icing on the cake...as long as the car can be identified as the historic vehicle in question.

I think that the car should be restored to factory original specs and the historical racing set up/components/photos should be showcased along with the car. Include original video footage and radio broadcast of the cars major accomplishments and you have one of the best automotive premiers in the country.

yup... considering most race engines didn't survive an entire season, having the original motor from a race car is not nearly as important as the car itself.

Finding and reuniting that rare original aluminum front clip though is important as that was a big part of what made the car special...

i hope that the car doesn't just disapear into some restoration shop though, it would be cool if there were updates to its restoration somewhere, but i doubt that will happen until its done in a few years.

I read on the pontiac site that deals for the original front clip and the original transaxle have already been brokered. The original engine (or at least one that was actually raced in the car) is supposedly out there and being negotiated on too.

If it were mine (ha ha, like I could ever afford that), I would restore it to "as-raced" condition, with the big car rear axle, graphics and all, and have the original transaxle, torque tube, bellhousing, etc., restored and sitting beside of it, just like it would have looked the day Stan completed all the alterations!!

I read the same thing about the front clip and transaxle on the Yenko site. How would anyone know whick engine is the original one for the car? I doubt that it would have the VIN stamped on the block since it was a factory race car.
James