As most of you know (because I'm an attention whore and post pics every time I do anything to my car :D ) I have a '95 Caprice LT1/4L60e in my '69. It runs good, but I need more horsepower. :yes:

The LT1/4L60e has about 30k on it, and is completely stock internally with Iron heads. The only "mods" so far is programming (mild 87 octane tune), headers/exhaust, and a 3000RPM Edge lock-up converter. I'm seriously considering a "Lloyd Elliott" LE2 aluminum head & cam package, which would really wake this thing up. :yes: I think I'd be looking at about 450hp... I think I'd be at least temporarily happy with that combo, except for that girlie automatic transmission. :( The good thing is, the budget would allow me to do it this year, and be back on the road next spring... I also wouldn't be completely tearing the car down to do it.

I really want the power AND a manual trans, and I'm thinking if I hook that power up, I'll blow my stock 4L60e up in short order anyway... Heads/Cam package + new transmission is starting to look almost as expensive as swapping an LSX/6-speed in, if I factor in selling the LT1/4L60e setup. Unfortunately, I'd be leaving my car as-is (slow) for at least a year while I save and buy the parts for the LS swap, and then tear it down for probably a year or more to do it the way I "really" want it.

I change my mind on this about twice a day (for the past year :D ) so I'm looking for some help making a decision. :clonk:

you got around 5k laying around if not more for modding???? if so you could start doing a ls1 with 500 rwhp. things you will need short list just my .02 your going to decided which lsx you want and what you wanna do for power, you will need oil pan possible (i do),headers,adapter plates,wiring harness,pcm/ecm,etc. then you got power adders like cam,heads,intake,throttle body, etc going on not to mention price for a 6 spped and clutch,kit with all goodies you really want it adds up quicker then some think. yes can be done on a budget honestly i just broken mine hahahaha i gave cam,heads (stage 2 port and polish came with used engine),throttle body,ls6 intake arp bolts for rods and head studs, trick flow push rods, new pistons, few more goodies and had motor blue printed by a friend (traded work out on his honda). alot of parts were on the engine when i bought it used, so look around i settled for a 98 while others say go with 02 and up all up to you there. if you got any questions there are alot of guys here doing ls1 swaps so feel free to ask brandon

I was in your same shoes. I pulled the trigger. It has not run yet, but I'm feeling good about the build.

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=986861

An LSx swap would be cool... but damn; it's much more involved and is going to cost you some dough! Why not spend the money on a head/cam package for the LT1 and put a mild shot of nitrous on it for those times you really want to let it all out?

I'm biased, since I'm doing an LT1 swap in my '66, but I truly believe you can make some serious power for a lot less hassle and money than an LSx swap.

-b

I think I'd be at least temporarily happy with that combo,

It's hard choice tearing a good running car down. It sounds like you will be wanting more power sooner than later. I would wait till you can save for the engine you really want and not mod the current one. If it is an LSX try and get as many pieces prior to taking out the LT1. Maybe you could do another winter mod to hold you over, but if you take out the engine and sell it the "While I am here I mays well" upgrade this and that snowballs to a complete box of bolts. And then you could be like some of us....watch the seasons change, no driving, watch the seasons change , no driving...LOL

JMO

By all means... LS1. :)

With nothing more than an LT4 cam, headers, and tuning, a friend's '66 Impala ran mid 13s in street trim. A Chevelle should be a tenth or two quicker. A low 13 second car would keep me happy for a while. The LS series engines definitely make power but they aren't exactly a bolt in. Surely someone will start manufacturing mounts, headers and oil pans to fit. A 405 hp LS6 would sure wake the car up.

I would say do an LSX engine for sure! Of course I am biased as well. You should consider you can get a lower mileage truck 5.3 on the cheap as in around $1000. From there you would have to find a T56 which could be had for under a grand even less if you are willing to rebuild one. Throw a cam in the 5.3 along with the swap headers and a tune and 400 rwhp shouldn't be too hard to achieve, even more if you do heads as well. As far as the swap parts go the more you are willing to search the junkyards and fabricate yourself the more money you will save. I would say you could spend around another grand with the headers and oil pan and such and have the thing running. So thats a grand total of around $3000 without heads and cam upgrades which would run another $1500. Thats a very rough estimate and of course there are little things like random bolts that do add up.

i would say rough est you left out wiring and computer not to mention tune if they are not up to tech with computers etc i say $3500-4 without any goodies you doing everything in house just my .02

do the LT1.

LE2 heads and cam for sure.

or you could do LPE 211/219 cam, ported intake and le1/2 heads and make about same power.

my friend had an LE3 383 94 formula, trapped around 118mph and ran a mid 12 on street tires.

you will def have a mid low 12 sec car with the le2 set up. do it, i know i would, as im going to look for another lt1 for my bird to do the LPE 211/219 cam and bolt ons with PTE3000 stall. that cam held the cam only bolt on record for years in an f body at 11.8's.

LE2 heads and cam, might as well go with the ported intake will be no more than 2k. def worth it.

aaron

I say save the cash and go LSx/T56. I have been driving my car for a couple weeks now and the difference between my old th350 and the T56 is amazing. Now it really isn't a cheap swap if you deck everything out, but it can be done for a lot less with a mostly stock setup. Are you talking 450hp motor? After you do a H/C on the LT1 can it go any further? A LS1 just needs some dished pistons and can take a massive FI beating. Remember Scott's '71 LS1 TT setup. Or a little spray for the straights.

Now tearing the car down and the time to do it is another story. LSx is the way of the future. I can now easily swap any LSx motor into my car (anyone want to donate a LS9 for testing?) I would definitely go aluminum block if you can. LS1/LS6 can be picked up for a decent price. Just make sure you get a complete motor with covers, pan, harness, accessories, and PCM.

Biggest items other than the motor/trans are headers, clutch, fuel system and whatever bolt ons you decide to do. If I was going to do it again I think I would start as cheap as possible first just to get it together and running. Then start the moding process. What are you currently running fuel system wise for the LT1?

If I were to do an LS, it would definitely be an Aluminum block. :yes:

The problem with the LT1 is that while 425-450hp is very easy and relatively cheap to get, going anywhere beyond that is expensive and not really worth the effort compared to swapping in an LS. 425hp would be a blast, but I know I'll eventually crave more. :D

Right now, I'm leaning more toward sticking with the LT1 and LE2 cam/heads package to keep it within budget and able to be done over the winter.

:rolleyes:IMO, I'd stay with the LT1, do the heads/cam, and then, as budget allows, go for the 6-speed...

You have a budget, you don't want the car to be down long, AND you want the manual trans... You EVENTUALLY will crave more power, but thats down the road a bit...

How about a supercharger as a future upgrade (like Troy/Gokou's)? Or is that a big hassle for the LT1 block/FI etc? Turbos are cool, but seem like alot of time and/or expense...


I'd do the budget thing and enjoy it, and then maybe work on one of those other cars for a while (you SS or the convert or the wife's wagon)... get one of those cars to where it will be fun for the season, and then not worry too much when you's is strewn all over the shop...

I have had several project cars that were down for multiple years... I recently made a vow to myself that I would always try to have at least one "fun" car to play with, even if it wasn't the nicest/fastest/etc...

Thats why when I sold the convert, I bought the '70, as an interm plaything until I got the other '66 up and running... Of course, now I have started spending more time and money on the '70 than I originally anticipated... there goes my budget...:rolleyes: I guess my '66 hardtop will sit another 23 years...

lt1s have 10.4:1cr stock. so forced induction is out of the question.


aaron

lt1s have 10.4:1cr stock. so forced induction is out of the question.


aaronThey also have hyperutectic pistons, so even with race gas about 6psi is the limit on a stock bottom-end. :o

Wait. your tranny will need a rebuild unless you don't use the power you just built into it. Stock 4L60 isn't going to be happy for too long without putting some more dough into that as well.

Do not go to the dork side. wait and do it right. Buy it twice or buy it right.

Wait. your tranny will need a rebuild unless you don't use the power you just built into it. Stock 4L60 isn't going to be happy for too long without putting some more dough into that as well.

Do not go to the dork side. wait and do it right. Buy it twice or buy it right.On street tires, it might last one summer... when she blows, then I'd get me a 6-speed.

but if you know the right person few hundred in parts and a nice 3400 yank converter and you got a fresh 4l60e that can handle some power!!! good to know someone who has been building transmission for 23 yrs.

Just pull the LT1 and use it to build the SS into the nascar tribute car. Drive it while you save the money for a LS motor.

just go buy a big piggy bank to start saving for that LS/6 speed combo that you know you really want. even if you do the top end on the LT1 your going to end up changing things in the engine compartment cause it will bug you.

They also have hyperutectic pistons, so even with race gas about 6psi is the limit on a stock bottom-end. :o

It is still based off a standard 350. Many have run stock crank and rods with a 30 over set of TRWs to over 550rwhp using a Vortech or Procharger. 6 psi on a stock shortblock is a roll of the dice some go forever without a problem and some blow as soon as they see boost. I always wanted a 355 Vortech sc'd LT1 in my C4. I would spring for AFR heads on a blown LT1 for the thicker castings if you go for 12lbs or really thrash it.

If you have the budget it is hard to argue against a H&C LS1 I loved mine in my C5. Both are reliable great options it is a question of budget and down time.

I'd talk with the TPIS guys near me in Chaska too. They have a lot of good stuff for both LT1 and LS-based stuff, and they really make great power with them. Getting perspective on their prices and power levels might not hurt, and I wouldn't mind covering some of it for potential stories too.

The good thing is, you really can't go wrong either way. It depends how much you want to invest and when. Ten years from now, the LS stuff will be as common as Gen 1 SBC stuff is now, while LT1 stuff will be like 409 stuff is now. LS swaps will keep becoming more common and less expensive, so it might be worth it to wait a little while (like until your LT1 fails you- which should be a few years).

I know I'm waiting until my 383 fails me to consider an LS swap. I should be able to enjoy it for a few years too!

LS swaps will keep becoming more common and less expensive, so it might be worth it to wait a little while (like until your LT1 fails you- which should be a few years).

I know I'm waiting until my 383 fails me to consider an LS swap. I should be able to enjoy it for a few years too!That's easy for you to say, you've already got what, 500hp? :D I'd be satisfied with that for a while too. ;)

do nothing for now, and keep an eye out for a wrecked low mileage 05/06 GTO with an LS2 and a 6 speed.
they are out there- last summer, i almost scored me an '05 with a 6 speed that got rear ended at a stop light. the trunk was in the back seat, but it still ran. complete car less interior for $2k. but the guy that told me about it didn't get me a phone number to the guy that had it for a few days, and by the time i got the number, the car was long gone.
and now that the G8 is out there, they are sure to get smashed up from time to time. those would make a good drivetrain donor, as well.

Heads and cam will wake your LT1 for a lot less then the Ls transplant will cost but I am biased

LS series are very nice motors for may a reason.
I say stay LT1 if you have it in already

for heads no one is better for a LT1 stock casting street or strip head
http://www.advancedinduction.com/AiProductsLT1.html
http://www.advancedinduction.com/flowdata/Ai200LT1Flowsheet.jpg

the 4L60E trans can hold pleanty in the right hands
Chris at CPT4L60E Carolina Performance Transmissions 4L60E
You can find him over at the Impala forum

My 4400lb sled goes 12.8s NA @ DA challenged Fontana Speedway in Cali 91 pump gas 355.
My head specs match what AI puts out.
Beside you already have the right converter for the job!

I guess I made my decision...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250319696150&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=

I guess I made my decision...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250319696150&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=

VERY NICE! I don't know how you have time for it. Newly married, work, chevelle, and a 10 month old.

This will be somewhat of a long-term project... I'll be spending the next year collecting parts for it.

I don't have much planned for this winter, other than cleaning up and organizing my shelves of parts, swapping springs & shocks again, and building a heat-extractor hood.

I think you'll be happy. I love mine and I'm only making 325rwhp right now due to ****ty tune and ls1 intake...with tune and ls6 I'll be over 350rwhp through an auto...the manual will eat up less and be more fun.

You got a steal on it too...mine was $2k with an auto and no harness, ecm, coils!

Nice buy I don't think you'll regret it! You have the right idea collecting all the parts first it will result in less down time when you do decide to do the swap.

That's the idea, I want to have all the big-ticket items before I tear into the car at all. There's nothing worse than having the car apart and no money to finish it. (been there, done that :clonk: )

I have a feeling this project will take on a life of its own... don't be suprised if the body comes off again. l:)

This time, I'm doing it the way I want the first time (first time for this engine anyway :D ) I've spent too much money doing things the "cheap" way, and re-doing them later. I'll be doing heads, cam, and intake.

Send me the old LT1, :-)

That might end up finding a home in the 66 wagon. :)

Actually my wagonis a 65.
But I'm sure I can make it fit.

Way to go Amigo!

I know it's a bit down the road, but I want to shoot the swap/install stuff on this, okay? This is going to be a very common swap in the future, and I want to become familiar with the requirements.

No problem Scott. My fee is similar to yours... a 6-pack per visit. ;)

Naturally.

Preferred label?

Naturally.

Preferred label?I buy the cheapest beer on the shelf... usually Natural Light. :beers: Every dollar I save buying cheap beer, is a dollar I can spend to make my car go faster. :yes:

You coming up to the meeting Saturday?

i go to MN for the mich golden light :) dang good beer.

i go to MN for the mich golden light :) dang good beer.My favorite too... but I only buy it when it's on sale. :beers:

fwiw, the edelbrock swap headers seem to be about the best buy for this...I have doug's headers and they're ok, but the fit around a couple plugs, my steering shaft, and a couple other places leaves something to be desired for $600 headers

plus the edelbrocks are stainless

How are the Edelbrock's for ground-clearance?

Not sure about the edelbrocks on ground clearance, but I have the hookers and my crossmember will scrape long before the headers ever think about scraping. However, I will mirror what thunderstruck says about the edelbrocks they are cheaper than alot of the alternatives and they seem to be made better with stainless etc. Also the edelbrocks are an 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" stepped primary tube design which should be good for a few extra horses. Not to mention they are a ball type collector flange design which is usually pretty leak proof.

With that said, had the edelbrocks been out when I bought my headers I would have gotten them.

Nice. Good to hear you are coming to the LS world. It's the way of the future.

Let me know if you have any questions. My thread on ls1tech is pretty detailed and I have tons more pictures. 400+ at the wheel sure is fun.

want a picture of them when i install my engine shortly? i have the edelbrock headers in the garage. :)

Yeah, I just want to see them with the front crossmember for a reference point. :)

my headers are also higher than the crossmember, its my oil pan I have to worry about

but I am going to make a skid plate for that to be safe