I've been challenged to a race by a friend of mine. Here's what he said:
Last night I picked up my supercharger for my 2004 Mach1. Stopped by Richards house to show off, and fought my way through a snow storm on 138 to get home(Lancaster).
Its a ATI Procharger with a 10&12 pound pulleys and a 3 core intercooler.
Dyno proven on my buddies Mach to generate 450-RWHP.
This should be enough to stomp any ORANGE CHEVELLES I'm supposed to race in March. No money, just bragging rights between friends. So, I'll be asking for advice and opinions more often. I haven't been on the board too much because I've been into off roading lately.

Here's what I have to work with in the Chevelle.
-Full steel body except the 3.5" cowl ind. hood
-15x5 and 15x8 Weld Draglites
-26x12.5 Mickey T. Sportsman Pro's
-4.10 Posi rear
-T400 with shift kit, Ratchet shifter, 3500 stall
-396 BBC (.060 over)
-Holley 850, Torker manifold, K&N air cleaner
-Hooker Comp headers (2"pri/3.5" collectors), 3" exhaust, 2 chamber Flowmasters
-10.1 KB Forged pistons
-Poly bushings front and rear
-I'll have to wait till I get home from work to post my cam specs.

I plan in installing an MSD Digital 6, an air bag in the rear passenger side coil to improve traction and some adjustable (rear) upper control arms if I can afford them. I also have my brother's old NOS system but I'd rather beat him with the motor. I think traction will be his biggest problem.

I'm not working with a lot of money here so any low budget help is greatly appreciated.

Almost forgot to meantion we'll be racing at LACR.

Do you have track times from your car?

If he does obtain 450rwhp, he should be able to run deep in the 11's if he can hook it up.

No offense, but I think if he can put it to the pavement, hes going to stomp ya... bad...

He has comparable or less weight, a lot more power, better gearing...

It looks like your exhaust is WAY to big for that combo, just my .02 cents, especially if you have the stock oval port heads on that motor, and your not spining the snot out of it.

My car has never been on a legal track so I don't have any good times and this is a rebuilt motor that has never been ran. I don't know what his car weighs but I know mine weighs 3140. I didn't know my exhaust was too big. What makes you say that. I am running oval port heads too.

He's running Nitto 555 drag radials. The 315's on a 17" rim, 315,45,17.

Thank, this is the info I need before I get in too deep.

Originally posted by chvyhs:
My car has never been on a legal track so I don't have any good times and this is a rebuilt motor that has never been ran. I don't know what his car weighs but I know mine weighs 3140. I didn't know my exhaust was too big. What makes you say that. I am running oval port heads too.

He's running Nitto 555 drag radials. The 315's on a 17" rim, 315,45,17.

Thank, this is the info I need before I get in too deep. Generally you sacrifice a lot of low end torque with a header that big, on an engine that small. You'd be better suited with a smaller header primary tube and a 2.5" exhaust (depending on your max rpm)

BTW.. have you actually weighed your car, or are you guestimating?

Weighed it at work.

That sounds light for a chevelle. Anyways, I agree with the exhaust and Id also say ditch the torquer intake manifold. Its old school and a hi rise dual plane manifold is every bit as capable in the horsepower department, but will prove the winner at lower and mid rpm's. The 850 carb may be a tad on the large side as well. A little bit smaller of a carb might be fully capable of feeding the motor to its potential, but the smaller venturi will boost velocity and that helps torque production. The carb deal depends on the rpm you run at and how well matched your cylinder head/cam combo is. Which oval ports do you have, and what, if anything, was done to them?

If you've got forged pistons add a 150hp plate syatem and pull some timing out, cheapest way to go probably.

I'll have to weigh it again. We did it with the scales we use to weigh our combat vehicles with.

What intake would be a better choice? Performer RPM (air gap)? The carb won't be a problem. My brother is the carb guy at Jet Performance. I'll have to get him to help me with that. I really can't afford to redo the exhaust again.

Without cam specs, it is hard to say. If he is running a power adder (Procharger), why can't you run a little juice. A 150 HP plate system would probably take your buddy's car out. I would definitely spring for a Performer RPM Air Gap, just to give you more torque off the line. It probably will make more all-around power than that old-school Torker would. Your exhaust is also hurting your torque output, but the nitrous would more than make up for it! That is one light Chevelle, if that is the correct weight.

if he can get it to hook, You're probably gonna get a good look at his tailights. Its hard to beat the new technology. esp. when he is running a blower

I don't know. His Chevelle is set up pretty good, but it won't beat a supercharged Mach 1 without the help of some Nitrous, unless his car really weighs what he says it does. If the cam specs out to be fairly radical, he should give a good race. The juice should put him over the top. The Mach 1 ran 13.88 with an auto and 13.2 with a 5-speed in a Motor Trend test. These cars come rated at 305 horsepower, so add probably at least another 100 hp for an intercooled supercharger with 10 lbs of boost, probably alot more (could be 450 at the wheels?). Hope the guy has an automatic, and you definitely need the nitrous, otherwise you are toast!

Typical, my 4 valve $27,000 car can't beat you so I will add a blower and keep turning up the boost until it can. Reading this column, it seems to happen alot.
I would take your car to strip, as is, and get a baseline. You will then know where you stand.
Unless he is an active racer, my guess is he will be lucky to get into the 11s. I think he will have alot of traction problems and a high powered light stick shift car is not easy to drive.
My guess is your car has the potential to run mid 12s, but won't without tweaking.

68chevelle533 hit it pretty well. If this guy isnt at the track often, and especially if he has never really dealt with that much power before, hes not gonna run the number the first time out. And, especially on street tires. Youve got some good tires so it shouldnt take much to put the power down to the ground, and if you can get it deep in the 12's, itll be hard for him to just strap on a blower and stomp you. If the suspension and tires do their job and he can handle the car well, you will have a tough time keeping up with him even if his car shows 375 horses at the back wheels. But like everyone said, it wont take much juice to get your chevelle in the 11's, and that will be tough for him to work with unless he spends a lot of cash on the rest of the car.

A set of these will cure your exhaust problem and they are cheap. You could also go with a set of the Ceramics for $240.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=WLK%2D85022&N=120+4294923429+4294923428+302006

You have to have a nasty big inch motor to use 2" primaries.

I really have to say thanks for all the advice.

My friend in the Mach 1 is running a manual tranny and he says it should be putting out 450 rwhp with eight pounds of boost. He knows how to drive too. He used to do 11's in a '64 Nova wagon with a SB, blower, and NO2 on stock size tires. He plans on being deep into the 12 and like everyone else says 11's if he can get it to hook.

Here's my cam specs: http://www.powerandperformancenews.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=11-208-3&Category_Code=11-CAM&Store_Code=CC

So far it looks like my best bet would be to change to a smaller carb, Performer RPM intake, smaller headers, and just plan on doing atleast a 100 shot of NO2? What about the rest of the exhaust? Is it still going to hurt me after the header change? What about an ignition system? Is the MSD Digital 6 a good choice? I also forgot to meantion I have full roller rockers and the battery is in the truck.

Here's a look at my Chevelle:
http://www.socalbigdawgs.com/albums/Chevelle/aas.thumb.jpg http://www.socalbigdawgs.com/albums/Chevelle/aau.thumb.jpg

What you already have should run mid-low 13's already but the headers are too big. I'd definitely put on some 1 3/4 headers.

I didn't know KB made a FORGED piston in 10-1 for a 396. If they do and you're sure they're in the motor, I'd put a 250 shot on the motor. Just be sure to plumb a separate fuel line and pump for the nitrous and take about 8-10* of total timing out of it when you're gonna run. And be sure to have at least 6 lbs. of fuel pressure to the system when it's operating. Then, roll out about 30 feet and push the button.

If you put on the 250 system, the 2" headers will be just right and so will the old Torker. It's a single plane intake and the Performer dual plane doesn't work as well with alot of juice.

Cheap and dirty but it should run 11's if you can get it to hook up. I have 12.5 x 28 Sportsman Pros on a 13 second car and they're marginal at best. JMHO!

Randy

Your Chevelle looks wicked with the blacked out front. I'd love to see more/bigger pictures of it if you have any. Feel free to email me at ejfelker@earthlink.net.

Ed.

10-12 lbs of boost?? I hope he is internally forging that motor or....kaboom! Then it won't matter who is laughing. Also, those blower cars with F.I. need a lot of dyno tuning. It is not a bolt on and go type of thing. Coming from the LS1 world, I saw this going on a lot and a lot of motor failures form both LS1 and 302 power plants.

The smaller carb was just a mention. Its not a surefire bet that the 850 is large, I was just sayin to take a look at everything just in case. Anyways, it sounds like you are pretty set on juice now though. With that in mind, the little bit of snappy repsons and torque that the larger carb will give up to a smaller carb is basically a non issue on the juice, cause you arent going to be down on the torque once you open up the bottle. Know what Im sayin. Arent those mach 1 cars something like 325 horses stock? Im just wondering cause if they are, it would take an increase at the crank of about 200 horsepower or more to put 450 to the ground. Sounds a little optimistic with just a blower swap on a stock mustang, but Im not in that game so I dunno. Like JC00SS was sayin though, it does sound like your bud is makin it sound easier than it will be.

The last TNT I attended there were 2 04 stangs with whipple chargers runnin 11.30's at 127 mph in street trim.

Good luck runnin him on the motor.

Your headers are too big, and the intake is terrible. Those are 2 places you could make an immediate improvement for not too much $$$.

I'd leave the carb alone if it's not defective. It's not slowing you down.

It would help to know what cam you have; that might be an area you could easily make another improvement. And of course, THE HEADS.... power lives in the heads. What castings are you running? What valves are in them?

I posted ealier the cam is a Comp Magnum 280. I'll need to figure out what heads I have all I know is that they're stock oval port.

I've got a lot of good advice on what I should do to the motor but what about the rest of the drivetrain? Will I be able to make it hook with what advice I've been given on the motor.

My son has a '71 longbed Chevy pickup with worn out green and white paint. A late model Corvette with nitrous picked on him quite a bit. The truck weighes 4080 pounds with him aboard and had a pretty good running 431 cu. in. oval port Rat motor in it. This C-5 found out about torque the hard way as the truck beat him on three different occasions. Truck ran 12.4s on the motor but low 11s with the N2O on. Last year he put the old race 13-1, 482" in the truck and it just plain hauls. With a 150 shot it ran 10.57 @ 125.6 MPH and 10.48 on 200. A 150 shot of nitrous with a good fuel pump and good gas will make that lightweight Chevelle fly if you don't overgear it. Go with about 3.73 or 3.55 gears.

We have a couple supercharged street Mustangs that run at our track,both running 12.20-12.30 range. I think you might need a shot of laughing gas graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Hi Robert, We had a guy here that got a new blown '03 Cobra when they first came out and he started playing lets see how fast i can make it go. He got all the way down to 10.75 @ 127 before his wife left him and took everything he had, they really do run good. The 10.75 was run with two of those space saver spare tires on the front. I asked him if had lost his mind and he said they were rated at 85 MPH and he only intended to try it once.

toyzrme said it best, just put in the big jets in the N2O plate and let that big dog eat. In your situation this is the cheapest/easiest way to run fast. I'd leave the car as is and put a 250 HP hit on the torker then work on getting it to hook. Be sure you got the forged pistons with that much juice, and as mentioned before get a good fuel supply to the N2O system, pull some timing out, and a fresh set of tires will go a long way on race day. Good luck and MERRY CHRISTMAS everyone graemlins/waving.gif

He told me he just took his Mach 1 to LACR and ran an 11.51 and an 11.43. His adusted times are 11.16 and 11.08.

I'm planning on running a 150 shot of N2O and changing my headers and intake to the 1.75" headers and the RPM AirGap intake. From all of the advice I'm getting it sounds like I'll get the best all around performance from that combo. I don't want to ruin my motor and in the end I'd like to be able to drive my car to work every once in a while.

Keep the great advice comming! I really appreciate it.

Limit the shot to 150 with a dual plane and good luck.

I've got a lot of advice saying I should go with the RPM Airgap and smaller headers. I've also got advice saying I should leave the Torker and big headers and just do a 200 shot of juice. I'm going to have to see what traction looks like before I start spending money. I still don't know if I should keep my 26" Sportsman Pros or go to a 28" tall tire. :confused:

Off the cuff, and repeating some advice there's two quick and cheap things you can do. Try a 750 double pumper & please get another intake. Also, if your oval port heads are stock you're in world of hurt. Square ports would be nice, or at least do some mod work on your existing ones. Nitrous
will definitely help and put you on the same page with this guy. I also tend not to believe what someone says about how fast their ride runs. I'd rather see than believe. Since your car's performance is going to change you also need to practice launching before you run him. I've won races against faster cars and lost some to slower cars. Know what I mean? My '66 SS weighs circa
3600 lbs and I'm totally in the dark on your car weighing so little unless it's totally gutted.
Try weighing it at another scale station and compare readings. With a little help you can beat this guy. Good Luck. Rain Man

I'd leave the 2 inch headers on, and also the torker intake. Buy an MSD window switch to turn on and shut off the NOS. Spray 200 and run the 28 inch tall slicks. You might want to hit the on button after first gear if traction is a problem. Good oval ports should flow plenty of air for a 396 with a 280 cam I would think. The rpm intake will make more low and mid range power but I don't think you'd gain much on the top end. The NOS will like the larger headers. Open up the exhaust and run 20 inch collector extensions if you can.

I don't have any advice since I know very little about BBs, but all I have to say is Good Luck!!! and let us know how your progress is. If you can, take it to LACR and practice, that is if they're still open. If they're not open, and you don't mind a "road trip", then bring her down to Irwindale and see what she runs on the 1/8th mile. Like many have said, practice your launches, cause you might find that your car may or may not like being stalled, and if you do the opposite, you'll be in for a very dissapointing run! If you plan of running nitrous, my advice to you is start off small, no wait, I take that back, run your car the way it is to get a baseline, then start off small. Go with a 75hp or 100hp shot, up to you, then work your way up until you get the desired ets you want. But keep in mind, you will have to do a lot of tuning! I know from experiance, you can have that baddest motor in the world, but without tunning, you have nothing! Get to it, Good Luck, and win or lose, have fun!!! :D graemlins/thumbsup.gif :D

The carb, exhaust and intake are not the best choice, but I wouldn't change then unless you have the funds and time... Those will add up, but probably not significantly (and you will need some big help).

I'd concentrate on real sticky tires and rear suspension (air bag, adjustible uppers, not-hop bars or Cal-Tracs or)... I thought the M/T Sportsmen weren't too good (?)...

With your 4.10 gears and your 3500 RPM stall speed convertor, you are going to need real good traction to take advantage of those and launch the car...

I'd also go with the 150 or 200 HP NO2 shot... Myself, I'd lean toward the 200 HP... Make sure the fuel system can handle it (extra, dedicated NO2 fuel supply!)...

I'd also be sure to get a driveshaft loop (might be needed for the drag-strip tech inspection anyway) and replace the U-joints before the big race get new axles...

I'd also agree with LXS... Get some actual track time so you not only know where your car works best (and determine what needs to be improved), but also so YOU will be use to racing (the staging, the lights, the launch, etc)

this kinda posting i like....i have built so many bbc (396's) in many different forms. i almost know what they will do before you get them to the track. no big dollar parts....

so i will give some race track times and part changes difference's...then you decide...

torker intake verses the rpm intake .3 drop in e.t. and just a very slight gain in mph less then a .5 mph......that is no other changes just intake verses intake on a real world car in the 13's . with some jet changes it reduced it even more and gained 3 mph on the upper end.....

2" headers verses summit 79 dollar headers...worse case 1 sec slower e.t. and 8 mph drop....going from 1 3/4" to 2" (that was a low 12 sec ride running 7200 rpms car slowed down to the 13's uhhhggg)put those cheap headers back on my times returned...another test .6 drop and 5 mph loss (11.50's car slowed down to the 12's uhhgggg) sold the super comps never to use again on a 396.....headers any bigger then 1 3/4" just does not work on the 396 this is even on engines running 7200 rpms with 11.7 to 1 comp.

porting stock closed chambered heads with a basic drill and dremel tool.....no other head work...race over the weekend ran 13.90's at 99 mph....took the heads off...dropped out the valves noticed just a single 45 degree seat...ported the heads (second time ever) just cleaned up all the casting flash that i could reach with my two tools and grinding stones.....put the heads back together and reinstalled in my car. set everything back on with no other changes.....13.60's at 104 mph...noticed an increase in low end tires was spinning just alittle out of the hole.....big pull on the upper end....

nitrous 125 hp shot from the go light to the end of the track.....basic stock 396 with headers, 2500 stall, 3.73 gears nothing fancy running 14.99 at 92 mph with slicks and open headers... 12.69 at 105 mph with no other changes but hitting the botton......

low 12 sec 110 mph car 396 with open headers 3.73 gears 11.7 to 1 compression was running 11.20's at 121 to 123 mph with 150 hp shot.

396 motor running 11.80's at 115 mph ran 10.80's-10.90's over 124-126 mph.....at this speed traction was marginal with just traction bars and 28" slicks 10.5 wide....chassis was stock...solid spring eye bushings and sub frame bushings...stock front end with unknown shocks...same with rear unknown shocks.

850 holley verses 750 ...i will say imo the 850 is good to use in the mid 12's and faster.....if your car is slower then that 750 is perfect.

i just hit on a few areas that was brought up in this post......since everyone was looking at intakes headers and nitrous.....

there is alot more areas to look at but the best thing i can say as fair is picking parts.......rpm intake...summit headers or a nice used set of some small tube design...150 hp nitrous if you want to go that route....do some home porting on the heads, up the compression with steel shim gaskets.

once you have decided on parts just remember there is still about 50+ hp just in tunning......carb jetting, timming curve,oils,cooling air intake charges and so on.......

Those Sportsman Pro tires aren't going to cut it no matter what the engine does. Get some slicks or E.T. Streets, anything but Sportsman Pro tires. I never saw much difference between the dual plane manifolds and the single planes but the newer dual planes are much better now. Still if you juice it your going to have distribution problems with a dual plane so keep the nitrous small,(150 or so). If the car won't run mid 12's on the motor give the idea up until it will. A 150 shot will give you about one second and 8-10 MPH. A 200 shot might give you a bunch of broken parts.

Time to get to working on her, keep us posted.

I'm dying to get back to work right now but I'm in Ohio visiting the inlaws. I will be back often to give updates and ask for more advice. I prefere to learn from the mistakes of others if at all possible. I've found it's cheaper than making my own mistakes.

I just got some new info from that friend of mine with the Mach 1. Turns out he was screwing with me on his times at LACR. He took a second off of his times just to rattle my cage. So he was actually running in the low 12's (adjusted) not the low 11's.

Where ya at in Ohio??? Mike

Originally posted by chvyhs:
I'm dying to get back to work right now but I'm in Ohio visiting the inlaws. I will be back often to give updates and ask for more advice. I prefere to learn from the mistakes of others if at all possible. I've found it's cheaper than making my own mistakes.

I just got some new info from that friend of mine with the Mach 1. Turns out he was screwing with me on his times at LACR. He took a second off of his times just to rattle my cage. So he was actually running in the low 12's (adjusted) not the low 11's. I knew that sounded a little fishy. I read an article in a Mustang mag a couple months back, anyway, one of Bassani's models had a 03-04 Mach 1, and installed a ProCharger on it. I believe the whole exhaust system was Bassani, and only the ProCharger was added, aside from computer tuning. If I remember right, she/the car was running around low 12s high 11s.

I'm in Holland, Ohio. I'll be going home in a couple of days.

I suspected he was messing with me but I had no evidence. I'm a lot more comfortable with the new times he gave me. :D

Here is an update. Ive read back through everything, and although the headers you have arent optimum for that motor, based on the fact that youve got a single pattern camshaft, the large headers may be beneificial when running on the juice. They arent helping matters on the motor, but an engine will respond better on nitrous with more of a split pattern cam. You dont have the exhaust lobe to do what you need it to do on the bottle, but the oversized tubes might help out that crutch on the bottle(which is where you are gonna beat him if you do).

If anything, try it out on a 125-150 shot as is before you ditch them. If you can get this thing to run low 13's as is on motor, a 150 shot can easily knock off more than a second if all else is right. If you are deep in the 13's and a 150 shot does give you near a second off your time, that should put you down into his leage. Another thing to try, aside from a cam swap, is a higher rocker ratio on the exhaust side. The best bet would be another camshaft with similar intake duration to yours, but around 10 more degrees at .050 on the exhaust side for nitrous use, and of course, a more appropriately sized header tube. I wouldnt expect any drastic change on your all motor passes with those changes, but it should wake up better on the bottle after the change, compared to how it will most likely do now. That might be enough to edge him out. If all the stars align, Ive put motors that run about 13.20 into the 11.70-11.80 range on just a 150 horsepower plate system. Thats was with a 234/244 degree cam(built two similar motors, but used the same cam and same nitrous hit both times cause I liked how it worked).

Originally posted by Harold Sutton:
Those Sportsman Pro tires aren't going to cut it no matter what the engine does. Get some slicks or E.T. Streets, anything but Sportsman Pro tires. I never saw much difference between the dual plane manifolds and the single planes but the newer dual planes are much better now. Still if you juice it your going to have distribution problems with a dual plane so keep the nitrous small,(150 or so). If the car won't run mid 12's on the motor give the idea up until it will. A 150 shot will give you about one second and 8-10 MPH. A 200 shot might give you a bunch of broken parts. if the car is set up right it should hook on those tires. i'm doing 1.60 60ft times on 26X10.5 sportsman pros in my 71. i think where the problem is going to be is on the big end where that stang is most likely going to leave him. don't see enough topend power to stay with the stang without a power adder. graemlins/sad.gif

You home yet? If you are, have you done or tried anything yet? Just curious here :D

My advice is to buy or lease a new '05 Corvette and humilate his Mach 1 Mustang in absolutely every conceivable race scenario you could ever imagine.

... Then tell him that it only cost about $1500 more.

hmmm, I'm pretty sure the superstang has the vette covered in th quarter.

Then spend a few thousand more and get the basic Doug Rippie Motorsports package for the 'Vette. Race over.

Well then, change the pulley on the blower, stang back on top.... Don't the new vettes go for 50plus??

Well then, buy a rusted out Ford Pinto for $100 and T-Bone the crap out of the guy's Mach 1 at ramming speed in the burger joint parking lot while he's showing it off to all his pals.

Problem solved!

:rolleyes:

Come on guys, we know it's fun and all to mess with each other, just don't turn this post upside down. A lot of us are waiting patiently for any and all updates, regardless of what car does what. We're here to help another car guy out, lets not get this post locked....please? Cause I know I sure want to know what's going on, who's doing what, or who's done what to their cars.

As soon as I get something significant done, I'll post it. Lately I've been working on the weatherstripping. This weekend I have to drain the fuel system to get all of the old fuel out and hook up the last of the wiring. I'm going to start another post when I do an update. This one is getting a little long.