Automatics are kinda new to me. To me my car dyno'd like a diesel.........low hp and decent torque. I would rather see these two numbers closer to the torque side of things. Any suggestions on how I can acheive this? This link should show you my graph. Any help would be appreciated. Just and FYI.....my car only runs 8.202 @ 84.5 mph in the 1/8th. This is the holley systemax package rated at 425 hp (flywheel)(heads, cam, intake, holley 750 pro series, LT headers w/3" collectors/1.625" primaries, turbo 400, 2700-3000 stall (jegs), 12 bolt with 3:73's


http://www.dfwstangs.net/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1959573

8.20 in the 1/8 mile with a 350 isn't bad,in fact its quite impressive.Sounds like some carb tuning and timing adjustments can be made..what was your 60 ft. for that 8.20 run? 378 ft/lbs. tq at the rear wheels is pretty decent too.No offense,the chances of your motor making 425 HP at the crank are pretty slim..no matter what Holley says..

Originally posted by mr 4 speed:
8.20 in the 1/8 mile with a 350 isn't bad,in fact its quite impressive.Sounds like some carb tuning and timing adjustments can be made..what was your 60 ft. for that 8.20 run? 378 ft/lbs. tq at the rear wheels is pretty decent too.No offense,the chances of your motor making 425 HP at the crank are pretty slim..no matter what Holley says.. Yes, 8.20 is about a 12.80 in the 1/4 mile. What brand of chassis dyno was this?

Jody

If you are producing around 275 hp at the rear wheels, you are doing fine.

Most hp ratings from that period were in gross terms, meaning the engine on a dyno without any accessories or transmission drain.

You have to add back 20 to 25% to rear wheel hp for the transmission to get to net hp, and another 20-25% for accessory drain to get to gross hp.

using those numbers above, you are producing around 430-490 gross hp and 580 - 650 lbs of gross torque.

Manufacturers ratings changed from gross to net in 1972 plus they started to detune the motors (smog controls) thus the large drop in "rated" horsepower during that period.

I've chassis dynoed that package a few times and with tuning you should be able to make 300 RWHP.

I do agree your track times are decent.

The high torque readings is because of torque converter multiplication, not real engine torque. Looks like you have a very loose converter, which might affect HP also.

same question as Jody, what kind of dyno was it? heh

For whats its worth I run 8.0@88mph in the 1/8th and I only dyno'd 268hp at the wheels on a mustang dyno ;)

Originally posted by beancounter68:
using those numbers above, you are producing around 430-490 gross hp and 580 - 650 lbs of gross torque.I don't think so..my 454 makes approx. 480 HP/520 ft/lbs. of torque at the crank,so I don't see a 350 doing that with the Holley set up..unless I'm just misunderstanding your quote/reference..

Originally posted by camcojb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mr 4 speed:
8.20 in the 1/8 mile with a 350 isn't bad,in fact its quite impressive.Sounds like some carb tuning and timing adjustments can be made..what was your 60 ft. for that 8.20 run? 378 ft/lbs. tq at the rear wheels is pretty decent too.No offense,the chances of your motor making 425 HP at the crank are pretty slim..no matter what Holley says.. Yes, 8.20 is about a 12.80 in the 1/4 mile. What brand of chassis dyno was this?

Jody </font>[/QUOTE]The car did a 1.88 60' time with Nitto's DR's and quite a bit of wheel hopping. :rolleyes: Oh and looking at the graph......the carb is pretty smooth

Originally posted by camcojb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mr 4 speed:
8.20 in the 1/8 mile with a 350 isn't bad,in fact its quite impressive.Sounds like some carb tuning and timing adjustments can be made..what was your 60 ft. for that 8.20 run? 378 ft/lbs. tq at the rear wheels is pretty decent too.No offense,the chances of your motor making 425 HP at the crank are pretty slim..no matter what Holley says.. Yes, 8.20 is about a 12.80 in the 1/4 mile. What brand of chassis dyno was this?

Jody </font>[/QUOTE]I have no idea.

Originally posted by beancounter68:
If you are producing around 275 hp at the rear wheels, you are doing fine.

Most hp ratings from that period were in gross terms, meaning the engine on a dyno without any accessories or transmission drain.

You have to add back 20 to 25% to rear wheel hp for the transmission to get to net hp, and another 20-25% for accessory drain to get to gross hp.

using those numbers above, you are producing around 430-490 gross hp and 580 - 650 lbs of gross torque.

Manufacturers ratings changed from gross to net in 1972 plus they started to detune the motors (smog controls) thus the large drop in "rated" horsepower during that period. True about the ratings back then.........but this is all rebuilt with TRW forged pistons.....running about 9.7:1 compression . Car weighs 3500 with me in it. No way I am making that torque at the motor.......keep in mind the convertor multiplies the torque. The car does come out of the hole decent for the suspension that it has.

1.88 is a pretty decent 60 ft...

Originally posted by SSMAN69:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by camcojb:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by mr 4 speed:
8.20 in the 1/8 mile with a 350 isn't bad,in fact its quite impressive.Sounds like some carb tuning and timing adjustments can be made..what was your 60 ft. for that 8.20 run? 378 ft/lbs. tq at the rear wheels is pretty decent too.No offense,the chances of your motor making 425 HP at the crank are pretty slim..no matter what Holley says.. Yes, 8.20 is about a 12.80 in the 1/4 mile. What brand of chassis dyno was this?

Jody </font>[/QUOTE]I have no idea. </font>[/QUOTE]What do you mean you have no idea? You didn't ask? It makes a big difference if the dyno was a Mustang or a Dynojet. Where you right there when the work was performed? Did you drive the car on the rollers or do any of the tuning/wrenching? The shop I use had me run the car and do the wrenching and I paid for the use of their machine and the operators tuning experience (he's a hardcore drag racer).

Also, what tuning did they do? Jet changes, timing, etc??? If they simply put the car on the rollers to provide you with a simple power/tq number, they took your money. The whole idea of putting a car on a dyno is to tune/tweak the setup, not just for a number or a graph.

Originally posted by 66chevyIISS:
same question as Jody, what kind of dyno was it? heh

For whats its worth I run 8.0@88mph in the 1/8th and I only dyno'd 268hp at the wheels on a mustang dyno ;) Was this with a standard? I feel confident if I had a manual.....I would be right there with you. What rpm did you launch at?

This was strictly a 3 pull session with no tuning. I wanted to know what my fuel was doing more than anything.Been having fuel delivery problems. IT was a 3k launch in 3rd gear (14.0 fuel) to about 6300 rpm (12.9 fuel) I was trying to get a basis before I started my tuning on the carb. Now I realize I need to jet up a little bit and figure this fuel delivery problem out.

Originally posted by SSMAN69:
Sorry guys.........I meant to edit the posts and must have hit the reply with quote instead. They were getting alittle long. graemlins/clonk.gif

The printout is from a Dynojet. Too bad they didn't plot the a/f ratio on the same graph and use engine rpm as the reference.

Your peak hp is about 6000 rpm, probably close to the advertised rpm. The dip in the torque curve at 4700 rpm shows where the torque multiplication of the converter is diminishing and the engine torque is still rising. Moving your stall speed closer to the torque peak remove this condition.

The TH400 is probably costing you several horses and the exhaust system needs some work, too. As a comparison, we dynoed a 355" Mexican crate motor with 4-speed, smog heads, XE268H cam, good exhaust, RPM manifold and a Holley 2-bbl carb - about 260 rwhp and 350+ #ft.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by onovakind67:
[qb] The printout is from a Dynojet. Too bad they didn't plot the a/f ratio on the same graph and use engine rpm as the reference.

Your peak hp is about 6000 rpm, probably close to the advertised rpm. The dip in the torque curve at 4700 rpm shows where the torque multiplication of the converter is diminishing and the engine torque is still rising. Moving your stall speed closer to the torque peak remove this condition.


Thanks....So is the convertor basically the problem ......or do I need a better cam? The cam is a 235/240 duration @ .050 with a whopping .490 lift. On a 112 ls. I did massage the heads on the exhaust and intake ports. I opened the intake ports almost a 1/4" at the entry points.The exhaust is 3" all the way back from the 3" collectors and dumps. Running two Super turbo mufflers.....not sure what brand...they came on the car.Pretty damn loud under acceleration.

Originally posted by beancounter68:
If you are producing around 275 hp at the rear wheels, you are doing fine.

Most hp ratings from that period were in gross terms, meaning the engine on a dyno without any accessories or transmission drain.

You have to add back 20 to 25% to rear wheel hp for the transmission to get to net hp, and another 20-25% for accessory drain to get to gross hp.

using those numbers above, you are producing around 430-490 gross hp and 580 - 650 lbs of gross torque.

Manufacturers ratings changed from gross to net in 1972 plus they started to detune the motors (smog controls) thus the large drop in "rated" horsepower during that period. Think your add 50% is alittle exagerration sorry :D

So......what the heck to I need to do to get the hp ratings up?????? Cam?

Originally posted by beancounter68:
If you are producing around 275 hp at the rear wheels, you are doing fine.

Most hp ratings from that period were in gross terms, meaning the engine on a dyno without any accessories or transmission drain.

You have to add back 20 to 25% to rear wheel hp for the transmission to get to net hp, and another 20-25% for accessory drain to get to gross hp.

using those numbers above, you are producing around 430-490 gross hp and 580 - 650 lbs of gross torque.

Manufacturers ratings changed from gross to net in 1972 plus they started to detune the motors (smog controls) thus the large drop in "rated" horsepower during that period. Damn man, u must think every big block makes 600 hp and 900 ft-lbs of torque. haha :D Generally, with an automatic you lose 20-25% to the wheels, sometimes 30% if your running totally different exhaust, more accessories like A/C, poor drivetrain geometry, high friction drivetrain lubes, too large of tires, etc. RWTQ with an auto is different too, since the torque converter multiplies your torque, hense why your getting peak torque right off the bat. My guess is your running about 350-360 bhp, and 380 ft-lbs of torque, which is pretty good out of a 350 IMO.

Originally posted by SSMAN69:
So......what the heck to I need to do to get the hp ratings up?????? Cam? You could go to an electric fan and throw in some synthetic engine/trans/gear lubes. If your running steal rims, u could go to a set of aluminums if your considering changing the look of your car. Going to a TH350 would help. If your running an A/C, u could rip it off. Little more tuning. Lots of ways to get the numbers higher. But really what it comes down to, is the performance. When talking about dynonumbers, RWHP is important, but really when it comes down to it, timeslips/track times are what count. Ways to go faster than just increasing power. (IE: diet).

Originally posted by -SS454-:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SSMAN69:
So......what the heck to I need to do to get the hp ratings up?????? Cam? You could go to an electric fan and throw in some synthetic engine/trans/gear lubes. If your running steal rims, u could go to a set of aluminums if your considering changing the look of your car. Going to a TH350 would help. If your running an A/C, u could rip it off. Little more tuning. Lots of ways to get the numbers higher. But really what it comes down to, is the performance. When talking about dynonumbers, RWHP is important, but really when it comes down to it, timeslips/track times are what count. Ways to go faster than just increasing power. (IE: diet). </font>[/QUOTE]I have weld drag lites all the way around. No a/c. I could use a little more tuning.......since I have done none except for setting the timing. I heard it was bad to use synthetic oils with flat tappet motors?

Originally posted by SSMAN69:
So......what the heck to I need to do to get the hp ratings up?????? Cam?
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A Big Block might help(joking) :D ! Seriously, my brother told me yesterday he had a complete 396 I could have if I come get it. If you want it, it's yours.

I'm going to find out today if I've still got those M/T valve covers you need.

Billy :cool:

p.s. I painted my nipples like you suggested and they look great! Thanks for the idea!

Originally posted by Billy:
Originally posted by SSMAN69:
So......what the heck to I need to do to get the hp ratings up?????? Cam?
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A Big Block might help(joking) :D ! Seriously, my brother told me yesterday he had a complete 396 I could have if I come get it. If you want it, it's yours.

I'm going to find out today if I've still got those M/T valve covers you need.

Billy :cool:

p.s. I painted my nipples like you suggested and they look great! Thanks for the idea! If it was a 400 SB......I would be there in a heart beat. BB will make me buy new everything.

Dude.........I did not tell you to paint your nipples. You are one kinky SOB.

Oh....your talking about the heater hose fittings. graemlins/clonk.gif

Let me check. He may have a 400 sb.......

As for the nipples (mine), I would be willing to paint them too if it would make my car run faster! :D

Billy

I'll take that 400 and/or that 396!!! I've got an uncle in and around Texas, I just don't know where he is right now :confused:

If it makes things any better or different...my wife wants me to pierce my nipples :rolleyes:

Originally posted by LXS:
I'll take that 400 and/or that 396!!! I've got an uncle in and around Texas, I just don't know where he is right now :confused: Are you going use the motor to go find your Uncle? :confused:

Originally posted by SSMAN69:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by LXS:
I'll take that 400 and/or that 396!!! I've got an uncle in and around Texas, I just don't know where he is right now :confused: Are you going use the motor to go find your Uncle? :confused: </font>[/QUOTE]LOL...if it'll help tongue.gif

Originally posted by LXS:
If it makes things any better or different...my wife wants me to pierce my nipples :rolleyes: And exactly how does your Uncle feel about your pierced nipples? :rolleyes: And if you did pierce them......would it make your heater hose leak? tongue.gif smile.gif

LOL!!! Bean counter.....your estimate of "gross" torque is rediculous!!!! 600 ft/lbs from a N/A 350????? Thats "grossly" overexagerated. Bad pun...sorry. Come on man accessories dont drain 25% of your power. And power loss through the rear wheels is usually 15-20% . Any more and you have some problems somwhere. I dont mean to be an ass but geese. graemlins/clonk.gif

Ok.....going to meet Billy up at K'dale and see what kind of times I get with warmer weather and home made traction bars. I will let you know how things go. It will be interesting to see how bad Billy's big block boils the tires. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

It will be interesting to see how bad Billy's big block boils the tires.
__________________________________________________

I guess we found the answer to that question! :eek:

Ever heard the expression "Smoke'em if you got'em? :D It's what happens when that little voice in your head say's "Nail that big block", when the light turns green! Problem was I couldn't see the green because of all the smoke I left from the burnout graemlins/clonk.gif . Sure was fun for my first time though!

My wife is still laughing. She thought we went to a burnout contest :rolleyes: . Don't you just hate it when a kid on a "lawnmower" get's a better 1/8 mile time than your big block :D . LOL

Billy Burnout :cool:
AKA "Smokey"

It's amazing what a 468 @ 7000 rpm can do to a set of street tires!

Originally posted by Billy:
It will be interesting to see how bad Billy's big block boils the tires.
__________________________________________________

I guess we found the answer to that question! :eek:

Ever heard that voice in your head say's "Nail that big block", when the light turns green!
LMAO!! I kept telling Billy.."don't liste to the voice" Ease it out of the hole. First run .......tires were boiling 3/4 of the way down the track! :eek: After that.......Billy was getting the pedal down good enough to net a 1.9 something 60' time on street tires. Pretty darn good! Set of slicks will knock at least another couple of tenths off. Add a good convertor and hello 7's ;) (well into the 7's) Had a great time! Those junior dragsters to run good for the motor they have. Once was running 7.8's---not bad for a lawn mower engine.