I'm just curious if there is any advantage to using the cutaway lifters verses the full body lifters. Thanks in advance

The most common refered to as being the BEST and lasting the longest are either the Crower severe duty with the HIPPO option, or the Isky Red Zones which have the high pressure needle bearing oiling standard.

Isky's are rebuildable, the Crowers are not.

Going with Isky's myself, moving up from my current Crane standard spring loaded horizontal tie bar lifters.

Originally posted by ricks_67:
I'm just curious if there is any advantage to using the cutaway lifters verses the full body lifters. Thanks in advance =
My opinion, Isky Red Zones or Crower with the Hi Pressure Pin Oiling Option & my vote always goes to the Isky. ;)

Hi Mike graemlins/waving.gif :D

Arent the cutaways lighter?

Originally posted by Rapid Robert:
Arent the cutaways lighter? They probably are Bob.

The lightest are the spring loaded style like I currently run.

You going solid roller next season Bob? I'll make you a really good deal on a lightly used set of Cranes (about 55 passes on them).

Thanks Todd, I have a brand new set of Crowers w/ HIPPO,,,should have new motor by the 15th,new axles, c clip eliminators and rearend support cover this week and a rollbar soon to follow.

What kinda ET you shooting for?

10.99 but hoping for more if I can hook it, the builder is guesstimating 6-650 hp with at least that much torque. 505,10.43-1,781's 2.25/1.88's,Comp roller that Ed used xr286r on a 107 lsa/Performer RPM gasket matched,950Hp and 1.75" headers to start. He wants to use a single plane and told me he'd buy it back if it didnt make more hp than the RPM. I want to keep it totally streetable,so I'm going dual plane for starters.

Originally posted by 10secBu:
Hi Mike graemlins/waving.gif :D Hey Todd graemlins/waving.gif
What is it they say, absent minded people think alike,,,, or minds that are absent are great,,, somethin like that,,, :confused: :D

What about those new lifters that don't have any needle bearings or axle? I know they are expensive, but they will not fail, plus they are a lot lighter then the standard solid roller lifter. I think they are like $900 for a set, but no reliability issues like before. I can't remember who makes them but they were in on of the mags I read the other day.
later

1BAD, those are Schubeck lifters. Not a drop in deal, as far as I know you would also need to machine the lifter bores. I believe that originally Schubeck did not sell the lifters separate from his camshafts, but now he has versions of that lifter compatable with other camshafts.

I do not know anyone using them, but if I were building another engine right now I would look at them very seriously.

Thomas

The Standard Isky Solid Rollers have never let me down on a street motor.

I read all the time about guys having bad luck with Sr on the street. Who has actually had one live for 5K miles and what's it take to achieve this ? I'm asking for a SBC.

Mike

Gentle Crane SR236 with their lifters, 160/440 spring pressures, 18K miles and counting, on the street. But it's a very, very gentle SR grind and therein lies the real answer.

do you have the spec's on this cam ? How much HP is gained say over the same cam in a hyd flat tappet ?

thanks
Mike

My Comp Super rollers have gone >2k so far on the street and many passes. That includes idling for the better part of two days in traffic at the Woodward Dream Cruise. The Comp Super Rollers are also rebuildable and have high pressure pin oiling.

They were only about $250 which means I could get two sets for the price of the Crowers or three for the price of the Isky's -- or rebuild the Comps a few times.

I don't know how the Comp lifters will hold up in the long term but so far so good.

PS. Spring pressure has a lot to do with lifter life on the street too . . . keep pressures down to 160-180 on the seat and 400-450 open (and a lobe that will work with those pressures) and I bet the lifters (whatever brand) will hold up much better. Of course too little pressure will kill parts quick too . . .

Originally posted by Eric68:
My Comp Super rollers have gone >2k so far on the street and many passes. That includes idling for the better part of two days in traffic at the Woodward Dream Cruise. The Comp Super Rollers are also rebuildable and have high pressure pin oiling.

They were only about $250 which means I could get two sets for the price of the Crowers or three for the price of the Isky's -- or rebuild the Comps a few times.

I don't know how the Comp lifters will hold up in the long term but so far so good.

PS. Spring pressure has a lot to do with lifter life on the street too . . . keep pressures down to 160-180 on the seat and 400-450 open (and a lobe that will work with those pressures) and I bet the lifters (whatever brand) will hold up much better. Of course too little pressure will kill parts quick too . . . The Isky Red Zones are CHEAPER than the Crowers if you opt for the HIPPO option (Isky's come with EDM oiling standard). I've bought sets of both. just got to source the right supplier ;)

Eric,
Just to add to,
The Comps have oil that sprays at the roller.
This is not pin oiling.
The last time I checked, when you spray oil at a rotating object it does not tend to migrate to the center of that object, it tends to get thrown off :D .

Isky has a third oil hole that pressure oils the needles at full lift.

And,, Iskys are not three times the cost of Comps.
At least not from me ;)

To anyone that cares, I am leaving for the PRI show this evening so if you email me I ain't ignoring you, I just ain't here ;)

Originally posted by mike1985:

I read all the time about guys having bad luck with Sr on the street. Who has actually had one live for 5K miles and what's it take to achieve this ? I'm asking for a SBC.

Mike
I have had good luck with my Isky Street Roller cam in my big block. Been in over 4 years and between 5-6k miles. No problems. This was with Isky's standard roller lifter.

Recently I switched to their Red Zones (more for preventive measures), a fresh set of springs, and had the exhaust lobes reground for more duration and lift. So far, so good. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

IMO, if you want a roller to live on the street good quality parts is a must (lifters and springs) along with choosing a cam profile with "gentler" lobes and don't get too crazy with the lift.

thanks guys.

I'm just curious though. As you soften up the ramps of the SR cams and lower the lift are you actually gaining any more hp than running a solid lift cam ? I'm trying to ask is , would the solid cam have a more aggresive lobe and make more power , as opposed to a SR that's been made for street duty ?

thanks

Mike

Originally posted by mike1985:

thanks guys.

I'm just curious though. As you soften up the ramps of the SR cams and lower the lift are you actually gaining any more hp than running a solid lift cam ? I'm trying to ask is , would the solid cam have a more aggresive lobe and make more power , as opposed to a SR that's been made for street duty ?

thanks

Mike
I remember an article that was in one of the car magazines (don't remember which one) from several years back.

They were doing a buildup of an old Chevy 409 :cool: with a stroker 4" crank. They were using an Isky solid FT cam; Z-33(290*/250* @ .050/ .560") and an Isky solid roller;RR-620 (290*/248* @.050/.620") (same cam I was running).
The roller cam made around 25 hp more than the solid flat tappet.

thanks 71454 chevelle,

that doesn't seem to justify the extra $600 plus for the roller.

Originally posted by mike1985:
thanks 71454 chevelle,

that doesn't seem to justify the extra $600 plus for the roller. Depends on how much the 25 hp means to you.

Wolfplace -- I believe the Super rollers have been changed recently. The picture of the Sup-roller in my '02 Comp catalog shows a slot in the lifter body that would spray oil onto the wheel (like the Endurex) similar to what you are describing.

Mine are not like that. There is no slot in the body -- there is a EDM hole on the oil pressure side of the body and the other end of the hole I believe goes down to the bearings. The lifters are in my engine at the moment so I cannot look at them to double check, but I'm pretty sure the oil just doesn't spray on the wheel.

As for pricing, well you can probably get the Isky or Crowers cheaper than 3X the cost of the Comps but they are still A LOT more expensive. If my Comps hold up (and so far they have) great, I just found a lower cost alternative to the big $ stuff. If they start to wear then I'll just have them rebuilt (no changes in lash so far). I know for a fact that the Comps are good for at least 1 season of street and strip driving . . .

Originally posted by Eric68:
Wolfplace -- I believe the Super rollers have been changed recently. The picture of the Sup-roller in my '02 Comp catalog shows a slot in the lifter body that would spray oil onto the wheel (like the Endurex) similar to what you are describing.

Mine are not like that. There is no slot in the body -- there is a EDM hole on the oil pressure side of the body and the other end of the hole I believe goes down to the bearings. The lifters are in my engine at the moment so I cannot look at them to double check, but I'm pretty sure the oil just doesn't spray on the wheel.

As for pricing, well you can probably get the Isky or Crowers cheaper than 3X the cost of the Comps but they are still A LOT more expensive. If my Comps hold up (and so far they have) great, I just found a lower cost alternative to the big $ stuff. If they start to wear then I'll just have them rebuilt (no changes in lash so far). I know for a fact that the Comps are good for at least 1 season of street and strip driving . . . =
Eric,

Nope,I know exactly how the Comps are "pressure oiled" & I am not referring to the optional grooves they used to put into the good lifter that was like the grooves in the
"endure-nots" :D
Pressure oil is being sprayed at the edges of rollers from the top & while this is certainly a bunch better than the alternatives of not oiling the roller at all it does not spray pressure oil at the needles.
If there was space down the sides of the roller this would spray oil at the axle at low speeds but would still not force oil into the needle rollers & as soon as the roller is spinning at any significant RPM this oil is getting thrown off the roller from centrifugal force, not getting thrown to the middle of a rotating object.

Again, Isky has a third oil delivery hole that forces full pressure oiling directly at the needles & axle from about half lift on.

Not saying the Comp isn't a good lifter, just saying in my opinion the Isky Red Zones & Crowers with optional oiling are a better alternative.

I have built a few engines & have seen first hand what happens when a roller has an untimely "accident" so I just prefer to spend the small extra amount to assure I did the best I could.
In my mind, less than $200 extra for the premium lifter in an engine build is well worth the "peace of mind" of knowing I did the best I could for a reasonable price.

To be honest I spent a little time at the PRI show with Joe Schubeck & his new rollers with no axle & no link bar are looking real good but at about $900+ a set plus a little work to install I doubt many are going to put them in street deals ;)

Hey Mike,

When roller lifters are rebuilt, what is actually done to them? What parts are actually replaced?
Do all manufacturers rebuild lifters the same (as far as part replacement)?

Thanks smile.gif

Originally posted by Bomber '67:
1BAD, those are Schubeck lifters. Not a drop in deal, as far as I know you would also need to machine the lifter bores. I believe that originally Schubeck did not sell the lifters separate from his camshafts, but now he has versions of that lifter compatable with other camshafts.

I do not know anyone using them, but if I were building another engine right now I would look at them very seriously.

Thomas http://www.schubeckracing.com/new2/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=14&MMN_position=53:53

Its says they are now a drop in deal. But the price is pretty scary....$920

isky red line rollers imo

Thanks for all the replys. I was running Comp rollers (819)with a rev kit with the advise from my machinist,and an oiler tube with the flow directed at the edge of the roller for the full lift of the roller lifter. I pulled the intake off and I put in my dummy distributor and hooked up my drill to test my oiler. The lifters had great oil supply from the base to full lift. When the lifter was on the base circle the oil was shooting at the top of the roller and coated the lifter for the full cycle. I pulled the lifters and they felt good but 1 of the rollers had some pitting on the outer bearing. Why, I don't know. The cam looks good and this whole setup only had 1300 miles on it. The cam I'm using is a Comp billet .690 lift 247/251 @ 50 duration 112ICL 112 lobe sep. The springs are Lunati's 197@ 1.850 and 533@ 1.250 with coil bind @ 1.110, max lift .680. The springs at full lift and I had .080 gap between the coils. I have thought about having the cam reground for less lift for street use.
I opted for a set of Crower's with the hippo option because the price was right and I had the option to pay them off before April with no interest charged till April, and being Christmas time helped make my decision.

Hey Wolfy, I just got a new add from Comp Cams and in it has a small article on the Super Roller that has been upgraded with a new pressurized oiling system. This just came in on my "e" mail and said it was introduced at the PRI show. Check out Comps website if you want to confirm the details.

Yea, I looked at them at PRI,,, same deal, they have added the two holes to squirt oil down on the roller like the standard Crower & some Crane's have.

It is a lot better than the old groove crap they used to do like the Endurnots but is still lacking the pressure directly to the needles like the Isky.
They also put a better bearing in them,, guess they had to do something but far as I know they can't copy the third needle oiling deal when the lifter is up as Isky has it patented.

Also, Isky has a different heat treat on the Red Zones that makes the surface real hard & the center more ductile & I know the Isky's & Crowers are 8620 steel.

I do recall someone last year getting there CC rollers rebuilt after 10k and they only lasted about 2k after the rebuild.

I've been thinking about just going with a .875 lifter for increased durability on a solid FT.
Harold said it would work.

Hey Scott, Why not go all the way to the mopar diameter of .903? The early model 400" Oldsmobile motor had a .921" diameter tappet in my '66 - 442 and a 6.99" connecting rod.

Wolfy, Thanks for the information. I sure like the new Isky Red Zones i got from you. They are performing flawlessly in a very demanding environment. The motor has been running 7800 RPM at the lights. We are pulling some gear out to slow the engine speed some. One of the Crane lifters in my son's truck self destructed last year and it was the pro model. I kept telling him not to street drive something this radical but he likes humbling unsupecting cars.