..just curious..I'm wondering if this intake is killing my MPH

Your MPH seems to be insync with your e.t. to me. What RPM's are you turning at the end of the 1/4 mile? I know you love your 4 speed and 2.73's, I'd be happy with that kind of performance.

Bob,I'm spinning about 4100 at the stripe..
This car isn't a 4 speed..its a TH400/B&M 2400 Holeshot.
Sometimes I just wonder if its the gear that keeps the MPH low :confused: I kinda thought it might MPH a little higher,like in the 103-105 zone
3.31's this winter graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I don't think the intake is hurting you,why not slap on a new air gap too and give us some back to back testing graemlins/thumbsup.gif ,,might gain a couple tenths with the new gears.

I got a "regular" RPM and the GM lifter valley sheild in stock..figure I'll do the gears 1st..I'm only running the Performer because the factory cowl air cleaner fits..it won't work with the RPM,as its a 1/4" taller and the hood won't close using the factory cowl air cleaner :( This car is very,very stock looking other than the intake,headers and a Carter 172 pump.Its no race car,just a nice cruiser.If 3.31's get me out of the 13's and keep me in the high 12's,I'd be happy..I haven't been able to duplicate my 12.99/1.83 60 ft. since I ran it this past April graemlins/sad.gif But that was in serious mineshaft air and ideal starting line conditions

you might try cutting a notch down into the divider plate on that Performer. just cut about 3" in length and about an inch down into the divider, this might pick up the topend a little. i would never do that though, unless it's a situation like your's where you can't fit a better intake on it. ;)

well after i read your combo info, i'd have to say the biggest handicap are the gears. :eek: next thing is the exhaust system. headers are pretty small, i'd like to see the 1 7/8" and also 3" exhaust. those things are hurting you more than the intake for sure. smile.gif

Its not the header size M71,there are several running 11's and down into the 10's with 1.75 tubes, I would go to 3" exhaust pipe though. I'm running 3" exhaust with an H pipe and there is zero difference with/without the exhaust now.

Originally posted by Rapid Robert:
Its not the header size M71,there are several running down in the 10's with 1.75 tubes..Absolutely.Those headers are all I'll ever need for my ride regardless of ET..no offense either.The 3" exhaust would be nice,but the price for a Torque Tech or any other 3" exhaust kit isn't.I actually do have a 3" exhaust for my car,but it dumps at the rear axle,and my car is pretty much a resto ride.Again,this isn't a race car..if it was,it would have 3.73's,3" exhaust w/dumps at rear axle,slicks,and of course,an RPM intake smile.gif
My plans are the 3.31's,and see what happens ET wise in April

there are also several running low 11's with the same intake too, doesn't mean they won't be faster with better headers and intake though, does it? the gears have got to be the main restriction though. you have everything else that should easily be running mid 12's. the intake IS NOT what's keeping the car from the 12's IMO, which is what he was wondering. i'd be surprised if the 3.31 gears didn't pick it up at least 2 or 3 tenths.

I would expect to see similar results as I have had with your change to the 3.31's. Our engines are nearly identical. I run the RPM Air Gap manifold and have the bigger valves and some port work done. I have my cam installed 6* advanced, I think you have yours straight up if I am not mistaken. I wonder if this may help you by moving the torque band a little lower. I have spun mine to 5800 and it hasnt fallen on its face. My timing is 20 initial, 18 mechanical and all in by 2500. I do however mix 100 octane 50/50 with 93 pump gas when I have gone to the track. I have not had any detonation issues with this set up. I am new to the game, I hope this may help. graemlins/waving.gif

bigger is not always better,and I have already stated what you said M71,,,up there ^

I don't think the intake is hurting you,why not slap on a new air gap too and give us some back to back testing ,,might gain a couple tenths with the new gears. I do think the exhaust will make a big difference though graemlins/thumbsup.gif

no, bigger is not always better, but 1 3/4" headers are for small cube bbc's 396,402's. alot of people have 1 3/4" tubes on their small blocks, and there's alot more air moving in those bbc heads than into even alot of the racing small block heads. what goes in must come out.
BTW, what are the shift points?
i don't know how much highway driving you do with the car but IMO, your car is begging for 3.55 gears. the 3.31's would be a good compromise though. swap the gears and i bet you'll wonder to yourself why you waited so long to do so. 12's easy with the swap. ;)

mr4speed, I run a Performer intake, with 3.08's, car is a little diffrent. 72 chevelle, 3.08 12 bolt posi, 496 stroker bbc, 10.5 compression, 750 edlebrock carb, 1 3/4" headers, 3" Torque Tech exhaust, M21 stick box, stock "049" heads with stock size valves, Comp Cams 294s solid cam. Best e.t. on 28"x 9"-15 Hoosier slicks I have run is 12.38 at 111.79 leaving at between 2200 and 2400 rpm. I will need more slick to launch higher my 60 ft times are avg. at 1.67 to 1.70. I DO NOT THINK THE INTAKE IS THE PROBLEM. graemlins/beers.gif

Originally posted by m71:
BTW, what are the shift points?
5500/cross stripe at 4100

fatmattbbc,sounds like a cool combo..nice ET too.
Do you run the 2.06/1.72 valves?

mr 4/speed i have some experience with the performer 2-0. when i used to have my 70 ss 454
i ran 12.65 at 109mph with a 454 .030 290 closed chamber heads , stock valves sizes, flat top pistons comp cam 270 magnum 510/510 224 at 050
standard performer intake w/ heat shield. holley 750 d pumper 4.10 gear 1 3/4 headers msd dist and msd6al box. 4 speed m22 (2.20 1st gear). the set up was very mild but everything was a perfect match. 109 mph was very good for a 3800 lb car.

MR4speed yes I run the stock valves 2.06 &1.72 it was in my last post. If anything I was thinking about trying out a Holley 850 DP, seems to lag at the end of the track. On the street that Edlebrock carb runs nice. Just might not be ideal for the strip. graemlins/beers.gif

The performer has ports designed to fit peanut port heads. If you have no gear or no convertor it may actually be faster for anything else a manifold with bigger runners should help.

Mike,
I'd have to disagree.
Edelbrock DOES make a Performer designed specifically for peanut heads but the Peformer 2-0 isn't it.
It has large oval sized ports ansd I would say it is a copy of the original rectnagular port 163 type intake in most respects, other than port opening....

I run an older "Performer" on my 427. C396B I think.
12.94 @ 104.9 mph.
1 3/4" headers and a Comp 270 cam...
Idles like stock...

reading on your combo you combo should be good for 6000 rpm shift point........i think if you ran your first gear to 5900 or so you should be able to carry out 2 nd gear to the end of the 1/4 mile that in turn would bring up your mph.......i think maybe since your shifting into 3rd gear the car really isnt picking up much of anything.......i run 2.41 gears now and i run a stock low rise intake on my bbc 414 ci and last i took it out i started of my shift point at 5000 rpms and the higher i shifted the more i brought up my mph and reduced my e.t.'s im shifting it at 5900 rpms and running thru the end at 5000 on the money for a 98 mph pass......

granted your faster then me but the same therory should apply............have you played with just your shift point.......

im changeing my gears to 2.73 and i should still be able to run with just 1st and 2nd gear.....and i hoping i can break the 100 mph barier

your intake is better then my stock low rise and my car is pulling very well into those higher rpms....

your pulling good 60 ft times ive only mustard 2.15 so far in street trim with ping to boot with a 2100 stall.........im going to change that as soon as i get off my butt and stop starring at that 2400-2800 stall sitting on the floor.....

im right there with ya on what i wanted to build a nice daily driver that looked really stock and run well my goal thou was just a high 13's 1/4 mile and one i could drive for hours on the freeway with out speeding alot of money....

looking at your 1/8 mile mph your doing very well but your comming up shy on the top end .....like your kinda losing your top end pull.....i think your mph is alittle down and that might be because of your shift point ......maybe your right in the damned if you do and damned if you dont on your gears......really cant hold on to the gear any longer (aka engine lays down)or if you do because the engine wont rev your really not gaining nothing.....


if your engine can only handle 5500 rpms then need to gear it to go thru at 5500 so you can take full adv. of your rpms.......if you go with 3.31 gears with slipping included you will go thru the end of the 1/4 mile at 5000 rpms at 105 mph

but if you went with 3.55 gears then your looking at about 5500 rpms thru the lights at about 107 mph.......this is all based on that you will pick up speed thru the lights because your pulling better rpms ...........

so if your not willing to get the motor to spin a few more rpms to keep the 2.73 (better highway matters)so your just using 1-2 shift then go with 3.55 gears so you can take advantage of the most rpms avaliable............

just my opinion......thats why im going to 2.73 gears so i can use all the rpms i can to pull me thru the 1/4 mile.........

273's :eek:

I vote for 3.31-3.55 gears,lifter valley pan, and a X crossover in the exhaust.

And as others have pointed out make sure the ports on the intake are not larger than the ports on the heads.

If they don't match-Performer.

Ports larger on the intake will work,,speeds up velocity,,,ports larger on the head will slow it down. Aint that right Ed ;)

Uh,ok...

What about the part where the air/fuel mixture coming out of the intake crashes into the smaller inlet of the head???

I am talking about non port matched items here.

Are you kinddin me?
Did I just get fall for the bait smile.gif

My Performer has the peanut ports...

then you will pick up considerably with a performer that is not a peanut port. i thought it was kinda lacking for what you had. the gear swap and swapping to a non-peanut port intake should make a huge difference. you'll be busting off 7.80's in the 1/8mi pretty easily with those 2 swaps, IMO.

ANyone ported the Peanut port to big ovals? Any difference?

Are the runners smaller through the whole intake`?

Mr 4 speed,
What part number is your intake?

Godsend,
Yes I have played with the peanut port heads on marine applications.
They respond well to modification smile.gif
They have a smaller diameter throught the port runner, but open up nicely in the pocket.
Normal bowl work, fairly extensive porting of the intake runners, bellmouth the intake opening, and running a large oval intake does wonders.

Over 400 hp on a 454 with "doorstop" heads. Stock size valves....

Jacob, ( or anybody) have you ever had experience with running a factory rect port intake on oval heads?

And I don't mean in 1320 basis only, I mean street/strip.

Have a nice marine bbc intake, dual flange, 163 type, rect port though....and wondering if it could be used on ovals like Chris's 215's or my 049s.?

Im running Viktor Rekt intake on my oval enginge. Making great torque down there.

Jake,I don't have a specific part #,but it say Performer 2-O on the intake.

Thrasher,can you say more turbulence,better atomization? I don't know why it works,I'm not a scientist, it just works. Using a hose as an example,,,if you have X flow with a 4" hose,then reduce it to a 2" hose, flow will increase dramatically.

I just went out to make sure I have a Performer 2-0 and it has peanut ports. A larger intake port does not increase velocity in the manifold.

i had an older Performer 2-O and it was same size as the #820 oval ports, which are not peanut ports. they do make both styles though. the one i had was just like the factory L-88 intake, except with oval runners, and it said 2-O on the intake also.
as far as shifting at a higher rpm, i don't think so. that cam is tiny. it would need maybe a 5800rpm shift point in a 402, but probably more like a 5200-5300 in a 454, especially with small tube headers and a dual plane intake. i only shifted my 454 at 6200 and i experimented ALOT with different shift points, anything over 6200 and it slowed down. my combo was much more upperend oriented too. 049 oval ports, 2.19/1.88's, strip dominator intake, 850 Holley, 11.5 to 1 comp, and the cam was a solid roller .663/.638, 260/270@.050, 110. so i can't imagine that combo would need shifting anywhere near what i shifted at.

m 71 you combo is really for top end hp im kinda surprise that it slows down with anything over 6200 rpms.......im running a 454 thats 60 over with 13 to 1 comp. victor jr with a modified 850 dp with a solid roller that is 256/268 @ .050 with a .688 lift and small tube summit headers and that thing wants more then 7000 rpms...............i shift at 7000 rpms but i now it will go farther because it pulls so hard but with a basic stock bottom end i dont want to spin it any harder........

i think his combo should be able to go easy to 6000 rpms to allow the 3 rd shift bog just looking at his mph from the 1/8th and the 1/4 mile he is kinda down........just my opinion thou

m71 I don't want to start a fight but mine has been on the car for over 20 years and is peanut port. I remember trying to grind the ports enough to match the 215s but I gave up and ran it. The reason you were lossing power at 6200 is the 049s. They simply don't have enough port volume to support a 454 that high. Actually I am suprised it turned that much most start dieing at 57-5800 unless you put so much cam in them they really aren't streetable.

just because it will rev to 7000+ doesn't mean it's going to run faster. it's pretty hard to get a bbc to valvefloat with good springs. mine would spin up to 7500rpms spinning the tires on the street before i could shift it. :eek:
but it ran faster shifting it earlier. and if the 049 oval ports were what was holding me back then how the heck can the peanut port intake not be holding mr4speed back?
anyhow....mr4speed i think you already know what you need to do. 3.31-3.55 gears and you're where you want to be. then you keep shifting that dude where you been shifting it. ;)

Chris,
Ive got a performer 2-0 on the shelf and it is large oval, matchs a felpro 1212. I do not know if Edelbrock made 2 versions of this manifold, peanut port and large oval. Peanut ports are roughly the same width 1.60" but shorter on height 1.45" vs 1.82" I gree with the general consesus here being if you have the large oval intake it is not hurting your performance nearly as much as the gears. How about going to 3.55's and running a 28" tire on the street, switching to 26" at the track?

Guys,thanks for all the info.Plans for next year will be to get the 3.31's in and see what I pick up ET wise.Then the RPM intake/valley sheild.I'll be sticking with a 26" tall tire to get the max. from the gear.Once I get a 12.7X/12.8X timeslip,I'll be happy.I have too many projects to concentrate on,and as I mentioned,this isn't a race car..but it is nice to know what it runs smile.gif

mr4speed, you know those are some other people's "famous last words", "if i can just get it to run this, then i'll be happy". ;) :D

I think it all boils down to what absolute goal you have and what you're willing to do or NOT do to achieve it.

As in, you had a goal to hit 12's with 2.73's, thru the mufflers and on radials (Drag Radials ya cheater :D ). You did that and I think it's the bomb. A true testament to big block torque, power and streetability. :cool:

Now...what is the next goal? Maybe a 12.79 with a 1.79 60ft. time? And maybe stay a little more consistent down at that level? BTW, I'm not picking your goal for you, but I'm just echoing some things I think I've seen you post in this thread and in the past. smile.gif

So...what are your limitations on what you can or cannot do to reach those goals? I have no experience with the Drag Radials, but I think you're goals can easily be achieved with those tires, unless they are worn and you need new meats anyway.

I'm a bit confused as to the 3" exhaust thing. Do you or do you not have it? Maybe I read the post wrong....I'm guessing that you have the system sitting in the shed, but not installed? If not installed, what size pipe do you currently have? Anyway, I think that if you didn't, it would help out a little. Maybe take a bit off the bottom and add to the top.

I think you could benefit from the intake swap. However, if the RPM won't fit with your current factory air cleaner setup...are you willing to ditch it for a non-stock setup or can you modify the factory one discreetly while keeping the stock look?

I would be interested in seeing the Performer intake modified a little (such as cutting down the plenum divider) for some hidden power. Might be wasted time...might not.

What carb do you use, btw? I almost want to say that it's the 3310 Holley, but I can't remember. What mods have you done carb-wise?

I really, really like what you've done with your combo, Chris, in keeping with a certain theme. I know gears are "invisible" and 3.31's are certainly NOT traditional dragstrip-type gearing, but I'm wondering what all could be done that wouldn't vary from your current theme and get you where you want to be. And since I've followed your trials and tribulations for awhile now...I know you've done your share of fine tuning, but bear with me.....

Are you spinning any at all at the line? Are you getting the "dead hook"? I'm curious as to what suspension, timing, carb, etc. tricks you might pull out. You are kinda at the fine line, I'm guessing, of what you have. You have high gears, which require big torque, to get you moving. However, the more torque you throw at those Drag Radials, the better the suspension you'll need to keep 'em stickin'. Have you tried disconnecting the front sway bar or Tom's "shock nut" trick? Those 2 things alone have made worlds of difference in my combo with more consistency to boot. And I'm right in the E.T. range that you are, but with a small block and full tread Sportsman Pro tires to boot. I even use the SBC Performer intake. Of course I don't suffer as much torque woe as I'll imagine you do. :cool:

What rpms do you leave the line at? What is the max RPM that you've tried shifting at? I'm thinking and thinking....and I really believe you might have just a little bit more on the table if you can just find it. Damn, I wish I could hit verified 12's with some 2.73's. I think I have "sleeper" envy. That's my next project's goal. To be as sneaky quick as possible.

Did you ever get your timing curve problem sorted out and get some fresh timeslips with it?

BTW, thanks for the letter and some advice...you can afford to do more with your car if you don't send more cash than the guy asks for. ;) graemlins/beers.gif I want some updates on all this. graemlins/waving.gif

Justin,thanks for the inquiry..I'l try and answer all those questions..might not be in order though smile.gif
My current exhaust in 2.5" leadpipes,10 year old 2 chamber Flowmasters and 2.5" Flowmaster mandrel bent tailpipes.
I do have a 3" exhaust/2 chamber Flows with center outlet/dumps,but keeping in the "theme" of my car,I really don't want to run it,but I might try it out.For now,its sitting in the corner of my garage.
My timing is 20* base/36* total by 3000 rpms
I'm running an old 750 double pumper with down leg boosters.Actually,an original 4779..it has no dash/part # after the 4779 stamp on the airhorn.
Can't remember jetting exactley,its 74 primary,secondaries can't remember :(
Haven't ran the 3310 vacuum since I had manifolds/2" tailpipes and ran a 13.7/97 MPH
I launch at idle,and yes,I can "feel" very minimal spin.If I run a 1.95 or better,its not really noticeable.
I tried Tom's shock trick at the track rental..I was spinning so bad that day,I couldn't notice or see a difference (best 60 ft. was 1.97 that day,worse was 2.10)
I won't disconnect the front sway bar..I like to leave it the way I drive it on the street (my drag radials do get some street use smile.gif )
Highest I've shifted at the track is 5500..seems to like it.
In closing,I'm sure theres a little more ET in there with the 2.73's if I dive into some carb and timing tuning,and of course,some traction.I'm very happy with my cars performance,even though I haven't been able to duplicate my 1.83/12.99 best.