i would like the opinion of you performance gurus on the following topic. i will be replacing my exhaust this spring.(402/350 with only mod being HEI, no headers, 2.5" run to the back bumper) from an earlier topic i am leaning toward the magnaflow 14" straight thru mufflers. But an interesting issue can up about the "X" pipe. It seems there are three things i can do.

#1.) if i use the magnaflow and an X pipe, i am thinking it won't sound aggressive enough for me but i will have great flow.

#2.) if i use the magnaflow but don't use the X pipe, the sound will better (able to hear the separate exhaust pulses, which i like) but what do i loose perfromance wise? will i notice a difference?

#3.)another option is to go with the super 40 and the X pipe. this might be the compromise postion. aggressive sound (but supposed to be fairly quite inside the car) with good flow.

i only drive on the street. i still want to be able to talk to the passenger and hear the radio.

which of the three choices would you guys go with for best perfromance and agressive (but not too aggressive) sound?

thanks in advance -

You don't think #1 will sound aggressive enough? Boy, I sure think it would.

I wouldn't bother w/ the X-pipe. I ran one of these before, the X works best on a limited exhaust system. Your biggest obstacle will be the stock manifolds. Mufflers really come down to a choice of straight thru, turbo type, or chambered. I am running Dynomax 22" case "hemi" turbos - real quiet.

Originally posted by GRN69CHV:
I wouldn't bother w/ the X-pipe. I ran one of these before, the X works best on a limited exhaust system. Your biggest obstacle will be the stock manifolds. Mufflers really come down to a choice of straight thru, turbo type, or chambered. I am running Dynomax 22" case "hemi" turbos - real quiet. What exactly is a "limited" exhaust system? We ran one on a circle track car I worked on and that just had a couple of Spin Tech(?) bullet mufflers. I can't say we noticed a huge difference in performance but the sound ROCKED! The thing SCREAMED at full throttle almost like an F1 car. I liked it and when it comes time, I'll put one on my car.

Jeff

I had one on my daily driven 70 elcamino with a mild 350. DID NOT LIKE THE SOUND.

Waaaay too mellow.

I have 19" edelbrock RPM mufflers (similar design to the magnaflows) with the x-pipe there was no bite to the sound.

I had the x removed and straight pipes put back in to replace it- Much better sound.

Still wish i had the shorter case mufflers to wake up the sound some more, but there was a major difference in the type of sound when the x-was removed.

I didn't notice much performance difference before and after removing it. From what i've read they are good for a couple tenths of a second in a 1/4 run... that doesn't really equate to anything you could feel on the street.

Just my $.02

Sitting beside them at the stop light they'll think you have a wimpy car. When your back bumper is beside their door don't worry if they like the sound or not. Do the "X".

One more thought...
X-pipes have only been around for a short time (last 2 years or so) Muscle cars have been around for 35+ years... Did they sound good back in the day? Were they running fast back in the day? I'm Pretty sure they were or we wouldn't still be digging them today.

If you like that "CLASSIC" sound- then get straight duals and short case mufflers and you will be happy. If you want it quieter get long case mufflers and an H-pipe.

You want to experiment with the flavor of the month- go with an x-pipe.

If you a driving on the street, how often do you really get to her it at WOT. Personally I spent a lot more time between idle and 2500 rpm putting around town, and I want it to sound good there as well at at 5k+

Harley owner? :D

By limited, I mean a limited capacity system. The X-pipe is supposed to transfer heat energy from one exhaust bank to the other at the merge to create an increased exhaust scavenge, hence the need to reduce the pipe size after the merge. The added benefit is the cancellation of lower frequencies {at least this is what I recall having read}. I ran one on a 351 Windsor Mustang w/ Hooker Aeroflow Chambers - it sounded like a typical chambered muffler Mustang. It sounded more like a single exhaust with 2 tailpipes.

To each his own - I like my BBC's with a traditional dual exhaust.

what about an H pipe?

One more thought...
X-pipes have only been around for a short time (last 2 years or so) Muscle cars have been around for 35+ years... Did they sound good back in the day? Were they running fast back in the day? I'm Pretty sure they were or we wouldn't still be digging them today.


Back in the day...? Back on whose day? Where were you in 62? The Dr. Gas X-pipes were first used on NASCAR cars in the 1995 season, about 9 years ago, hardly the 'flavor of the day'. This is probably about the time you got your driver's license. Having been a musclecar owner in the 1960's, I can't even imagine having a car as fast as I drive everyday today. A 13-second car back then was virtually unbeatable, now we run 11's in our tow car.

Originally posted by AHSOM70:
One more thought...
X-pipes have only been around for a short time (last 2 years or so) Muscle cars have been around for 35+ years... Did they sound good back in the day? Were they running fast back in the day? I'm Pretty sure they were or we wouldn't still be digging them today.

If you like that "CLASSIC" sound- then get straight duals and short case mufflers and you will be happy. If you want it quieter get long case mufflers and an H-pipe.

You want to experiment with the flavor of the month- go with an x-pipe.

If you a driving on the street, how often do you really get to her it at WOT. Personally I spent a lot more time between idle and 2500 rpm putting around town, and I want it to sound good there as well at at 5k+ Um, not to try and rag on you, but, talking about "back in the day," dual points were really big back then, they made power, ran good and strong...but are we still using them???

Actually,

Chrysler had electronic ignitions very early. The tech for HEI type came with computers and the micro chip industry. A 35 year old dual point is still bulletproof.

As far as Nascar running X-pipes, it has been proven that they can add top end power, but ask the right question - if Nascar had still allowed 426 Hemi's, 427 Fords, 440 Wedge Motors ( GM wasn't the king back then because of the 400" corp. rule), would we even care about X-pipes. What do you think a Nascar racecar would be running with todays smaller aerodynamic cars, tire and suspension technology and those larger motors of yesteryear?

Originally posted by GRN69CHV:
Actually,

Chrysler had electronic ignitions very early. The tech for HEI type came with computers and the micro chip industry. A 35 year old dual point is still bulletproof.

As far as Nascar running X-pipes, it has been proven that they can add top end power, but ask the right question - if Nascar had still allowed 426 Hemi's, 427 Fords, 440 Wedge Motors ( GM wasn't the king back then because of the 400" corp. rule), would we even care about X-pipes. What do you think a Nascar racecar would be running with todays smaller aerodynamic cars, tire and suspension technology and those larger motors of yesteryear? Why did everybody eliminate them if they're so built proof?

I'm not into the x pipe deal myself on my car ( I love the sound of traditional duals)but I will admit Gene's "old red" sounds sweet.Not overly loud IMHO,but very refined and mechanical if you know what I mean.

The biggest drawback of this or any other message board is the lack of a qualitative defined set of parameters. I am as much at fault here as the next guy - but that said - the question as I read it originally applied to a "street" car, not a "race" car. If we want to talk race cars and specifically Nascar - take a good look at the history of oval track racing and the developments that have had to go into the cars for both performance and safety. For those of us that were around, the 60's cars were bascially hopped up production vehicles.

Regarding Dual points - go to a true car show {not the local hamburger joint cruise night}, look for the original/restored 396/425HP, 427/425HP, 454/450HP, 302/290HP, 327/365 & 375 cars. Now find out how many owners have dumped the dual point dist. for HEI. The allure of an HEI is plug and play!

I am not against any new technology, if it is there go for it if you want. But if that were really the case, why bother to run a 35 year old "antiquated" rat with any type of distributor in the first place.

Run whatever you want. Big power, stock power, loud exhaust, quiet exhaust, 4 spds, autos, overdrive, trailer queens or bondo rigs. But when people post a thread looking for feedback, they will get a varying degree of feedback. That's what this is for.

Originally posted by GRN69CHV:
Actually,

Chrysler had electronic ignitions very early. The tech for HEI type came with computers and the micro chip industry. A 35 year old dual point is still bulletproof.

As far as Nascar running X-pipes, it has been proven that they can add top end power, but ask the right question - if Nascar had still allowed 426 Hemi's, 427 Fords, 440 Wedge Motors ( GM wasn't the king back then because of the 400" corp. rule), would we even care about X-pipes. What do you think a Nascar racecar would be running with todays smaller aerodynamic cars, tire and suspension technology and those larger motors of yesteryear? You'd see whatever exhaust system makes the most power. One of the difficulties of using an x-pipe as the collector outlet is the necessity of bringing the two sides together, which may not be in the best interest of the rest of the design due to the extra length. You see more independence tri-y designs now because of this, and the effect is much the same as an x-pipe, which is relatively insensitive to the tertiary pipe length. For those of us who operate in the long-tube mundane world of 5500 rpm, the x-pipe will always be an option.

OAW, going back to your orignal post, option #1 WILL NOT SOUND WIMPY. As long as you like that NASCAR sound which really 'tunes out" at 4000 rpms or so, you're exhaust note will be anything but wimpy.

I must tell you, not to brag, that I got so many complements on the orignal X pipe exhaust I had it was funny. Almost everytime I had the car out. But it was as loud as a chambered exhuast, with the X and very small 12-14" muffler. I mean LOUD! And when you get into it, it sounds like you're pulling 7G's at 4, and 10K at 7!

With big 22" mufflers , you don't get that distinct X sound, ALTHOUGH, the car sounds more like a Harley ( from the inside) at a steady 3K cruise rpm.

Originally posted by LXS:
Why did everybody eliminate them if they're so built proof? Points burn out after a while and require replacement and adjustment. The higher output you run through them the sooner they need replacing. The hei replaced point for those reasons.

if i werent concerned about the sound i would use an x-pipe without question.

i like the traditional dual exhaust, with an x-pipe or h-pipe both sides of the exhaust are joined so you dont get that classic "count em off" sound.

as with everything its all about personal preference. if you want the traditional sound go with a traditional dual exhaust. if you are searching for every last bit of HP and dont care about the sound, go with an x-pipe.

to each his own ;)

wow !
this is some great info.
you guys really are gurus.
based on your recs i will be going with the 14" magnaflows with the separate duals and no X pipe. you guys ROCK! - thanks

You think you got a return on that last thread, list a new thread and ask for pipe sizing, carb calibration and other misc. input whether you need it or not, then sit back and watch the comments roll in. Definitely an outspoken crowd here with a wide range of experience to offer.

no kiddin..... thanks all