Hi, I am relatively new here, and first I have to say that I love your site. I am 15 years old and last August I purchased a '72 Malibu with a 350. We are finally going to start working on it. I have 0 experience working on V8's, and my dad doesn't know a whole lot about building performance cars (He's an airplane mechanic). I am wondering, how can I tell if something on my engine is aftermarket or not? The seller claims the car has 350HP, although thats likely not true. Anyways, I would just like to know what's stock on the thing and what's not.

I don't know what kind of engine it is, it was born with the L-65, but I looked where the casting numbers should be but I cannot find them. I am thinking this engine was swapped in from something else. All I know is that it has a performance cam and a 4 barrel on it, although the 4BBL could have been stock on the engine that was swapped in. I don't know.

Well, anyways, I will quit rambling and just hope that someone can help me. Sorry if this is a stupid question :(

-Tanner

you've got plenty of time to make it go fast when you have more driving experience.

Right now, In my opinion focus your efforts of making it look nice.

A set of aluminum (15") wheels would help bring it to life.

Aftermarket heads won't have GM casting numbers.

Aftermarket intakes usually have Edelbrock/Holley/Weiand or such brand names stamped on them.

Carburetors: I'm pretty sure most factory 4BBLs (Chevelle era 1964-72) were Rochester Q-jets with the exception of hi-performance engines that came with one or more Holley carbs ( Z28/LT-1 and DZ302s, etc)

If it has tube headers, those are aftermarket.

That's pretty much all you can tell from the outside. The inside is bit trickier as many parts/part numbers can only be examined when you take apart the engine (pistons/crank/maybe rods)

Originally posted by Motor Martyr:
you've got plenty of time to make it go fast when you have more driving experience.

Right now, In my opinion focus your efforts of making it look nice.

A set of aluminum (15") wheels would help bring it to life. Oh, I know that. I just want to know what is done to it so I know what to say if someone asks :D I KNOW I cannot handle a powerful car right now, and this car won't be driven 'till I am out of school.

And for wheels, I want some 17" Torq-Thrusts, I just need to rake in some extra cash ;)

Well....unless you built the engine yourself you really won't know what's in it until you take it apart, and even then some parts you may not be able to tell what type/brand they are.

You can however, usually tell what engine you have by looking at the engine suffix code. Unless your block was decked there will be a pad just foward of the right cylinder head (usually covered up by the alternator) that will have some numbers on it, followed by some letters. The numbers and letters will tell you (usually) what size engine it is, what it's out of and in some cases even what year.

Also if the previous owner claimed it has 350 hp, does he have a dyno slip to prove it?

Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
Well....unless you built the engine yourself you really won't know what's in it until you take it apart, and even then some parts you may not be able to tell what type/brand they are.

You can however, usually tell what engine you have by looking at the engine suffix code. Unless your block was decked there will be a pad just foward of the right cylinder head (usually covered up by the alternator) that will have some numbers on it, followed by some letters. The numbers and letters will tell you (usually) what size engine it is, what it's out of and in some cases even what year.

Also if the previous owner claimed it has 350 hp, does he have a dyno slip to prove it? I know the CID, it's 350. I just don't know what kind. I guess I will just have to look at this stuff when we get it apart. And no, he doesn't have the dyno slip because it's not his car. I spotted it, asked him about it and he told me that the owner lives in Mexico. He called up the owner and he said to go for it, so I bought the car through this other guy that doesn't own the car. The guy is a bull****ter though, so I'm not claiming anything until I get it dynoed.

I wouldn't tear into the engine just to find out what it has unless you REALLY need to know. ;)

Best thing to do is get all the numbers and stuff off of it you can as well as their locations and post 'em here.

If this guy is a bull *****ter then he's probably just trying to make it sound like it's all that. Truth is if it's really only making 150 HP instead of 350 HP, you'll soon know it the first time you try and race a Z28 or something.

Originally posted by tanner07:
I spotted it, asked him about it and he told me that the owner lives in Mexico. He called up the owner and he said to go for it, so I bought the car through this other guy that doesn't own the car.Did you get a clear title? I'm sorry, the above statements are "Red Flags" in my mind.

DOes it run/ drive and did you pay a fair price? If it runs/ drives, isnt rusty as all hell and you didnt pay through the bloody nose for it your fine.

I wouldn't tear it apart either, if it runs fine. Just enjoy as-is unless some horrid mechanical failure rears its head.

As was mentioned above, for there are numbers on the cylinder deck on the driver side of the engine at the front. It's a little pad of metal that protrudes out below the head. It has numbers stamped into it from a numbering machine. These are NOT the same thing as what are referred to as "casting numbers" which I will explain how to find.

From your brief description it sounds like the stamping numbers have been removed when the block was decked during an engine rebuild. However, the casting numbers would almost never be removed, unless someone were really up to some wierd stuff.

Casting numbers for the block can be found on the driver side of the block all the way to the back of it at the top right where the transmission bellhousing bolts to the block. This area will be a little hard for you to get to. The confines are tight, and it is generally covered in tons of dirt and grease. However, the numbers should be well-preserved, as they are large and heavy type that is not easily worn away by the ravages of time, or some idiot with a wayward BFH.

You may need a flashlight to help you read them once they are uncovered. Write the numbers down. I can't recall how many digits a casting number has, but it's gotta be somewhere between five and seven? There's a location on this site that will have casting numbers listed and they will help you identify your engine.

NOW, having said all of that, a casting number will NOT tell you exactly what sort of "stuff" is in your mill. For example, I just sold an engine block that had a casting number that was used for both Chevy pickup engines, and the way-cool '69 Z28 engine. The stamped numbers on the block had been removed during a deck job years ago, and that would have said if it was specifically used in the application of a '69 Z28.
What the casting numbers did tell me, was that this was indeed a 350 block, and that it had 4-bolt main caps. (I could tell the caps 'cause the block was out, but in your case you can't see this tidbit.)

That's the long of it on block castings. Heads also have casting numbers, and you can look that stuff up here or on other sites as well. We're good guys for that type of info at Team Chevelle, and I count on these good people as much as I hope you will come to in your efforts to put together one kickbutt machine. Best of luck to you and your dad. Hope the two of you have a good time with it!

If the metal on your intake looks gray, then it is probably an aluminum intake. Aftermarket intakes will have the company's name cast into them prominently. So will cylinder heads. Headers look like smooth tubes coming out around the spark plugs, while manifolds look like big, cast, rough, clunky things. They will bolt to the rest of the exhaust right up pretty close to the engine, whereas a header will usually have its pipes snaking all the way down underneath the car.

If your distributor has a big, honkin' sized cap on it and a couple of screws holding down a sort of lid (not the cap itself) that goes on the cap, then you scored yourself an HEI ignition. You may have a standard points ignition, however. I don't think HEI became standard until '73 or thereabouts.

If your carb says "Holley" it's aftermarket. I think most standard 4bbl applications had Rochester Quadrajets, and if you have a Q-jet it will have that name cast into the body somewhere.

Let us know what you find!

Thanks for all the help, especially TH. It really does appear that these machined numbers have been removed. I will have to look and see what I can find on the casting numbers. The car has stock manifolds. They are the old square ones you see on old Chevy engines, like this: http://www.santaclaratruckwreckers.com/exhaustmanifoldv8chev.jpg

We are taking apart the engine because it doesn't run very good. It's really quite loud, I dono if it's because of the cam and other performance mods or if it is the fact that it really needs to be rebuilt.

Also, to the guy that asked about rust. I live in Alberta, Canada. Cars that are 6 years old here have rust on them. This one is about 32 years old. You do the math :D It's not too bad though, you can see it on my cardomain page (in my signature)

And to the guy that said the facts I gave him look like red flags-it's all good. We have known the guy for quite a long time.

Again, thanks for all your help everyone, this site gets better and better each time I come back smile.gif

PS-what do you guys mean when you say the block has been decked?

A standard V8 engine (of any make - Chev, Dodge, Pontiac, etc.) has two major chunks of cast iron that make up the engine: the block and the heads. Okay, technically that's three, but you get my point.
The block is the most basic part. If you tear down the engine completely and remove every part, what you have left is the block. Looking down at the top of the engine you can see the lifter valley and the holes where the pistons are (the cylinder bores). The cylinder heads bolt on top of the cylinder bores. The area that the heads bolt onto on the block is called the deck.
What the deal is with your missing numbers is that the pad those stamped numbers are on is simply an extension of the deck that just sticks out a little at the front. Now, the deck must be a flat and even surface in order for the cylinder head to seal up to it properly when it is bolted down. Over time the deck becomes mildly warped (or can become damaged, like when a head gasket blows). When an engine is rebuilt it is very common to take what you might think of as a massive flat-faced grinder and cut off a thin layer of the deck to bring it back to a smooth, even surface. Since that protrustion (the pad) is level with the rest of the deck, it gets machined as well, and the numbers are cut away. Sometimes you will see an engine that's been decked very slightly, or had very deeply stamped numbers, and the numbers will still be partially visible, though hard to read. Yours were most likely completely removed, which is what happens most of the time.

If you search for "chevy block" on eBay you may come across some photos that give you an idea of what I'm talking about. Most likely someone selling an engine block will have photos of the casting and/or stamping numbers so a buyer can tell what's what.

Nice picture of a manifold. That is the style often referred to as a "rams horn" manifold. There were, of course, other types, but the function is the same.

When you say your engine is loud, it could just be that you have crapped-out exhaust. If it leaks up near the manifolds it will be loud in the engine compartment. The manifolds themselves may be leaking, though this isn't all too common. If the car has been sitting a long time, as you've implied, it may just be rotten pipes and mufflers. It's kind of hard to tell if there are any other engine ailments if the exhaust system is making a racket.

There are some basic engine sounds you may hear, and while it sounds like a joke, mechanical stuff exhibits qualities that will bring about some common symptoms you can see or hear.

-A tick may be a bad lifter(s). Performance lifters called "solid lifters" always rattle because of the nature of their construction. I seriously doubt you have solid lifters.
-A tick may also be an exhaust leak (especially with headers and leaky gaskets). You can look around the ports and see if there are any noticeable black spots to help tell if a manifold is leaking.
-A tick can be a cracked flywheel.
-A knock may be a bearing on the crank or rod going bad. I have also heard of a bad bearing being described as a hammering sort of sound.
There are a bunch of others. This is just a quick list.
-A clanky sort of knock (as opposed to a more dull thud-type of knock) could be a broken connecting rod. This would be horrifically loud, and would change speed with the RPM of the engine. This is one of autodom's sadder sounds, as it signifies the death of a major internal engine part, and generally leads to a complete rebuild - which hardly anyone ever looks forward to. I have heard this sound from the second floor window of a my high school building years ago. I could STILL hear the sound after the car had driven more than a block away. The car was sold soon after that.

You can get a better idea of where a noise is coming from by taking a long handled screwdriver and putting the business end against, say, a valve cover, and then putting the handle against your ear. If you have a problem with a lifter, it will sound louder through the handle of the screwdriver. You can move the screwdriver around to various parts of the engine and see how the sound changes. They also make nifty little "stethascopes" for this purpose, but most people just use a screwdriver or pipe if the need arises, because they'd rather spend money on other kinds of tools - preferably ones that make a lot of noise, are powered by air or electricity, and tear things apart, or fuse them together. (Okay, so that's really just my preference!)

I'm not trying to alarm you. It's probably just that you have some simple problems caused by general neglect and inattention. I'm just trying to throw a little knowledge your way.

I worked on my first Chevy V8 in my old Nova, and though my dad knew a lot about cars, he didn't help a whole ton with the Nova once I started swapping on intakes and headers. He's just not into performance, and I jumped out of his realm of familiarity pretty quicly. It's nice your dad is going to help you with this.

I'll see if I can dig up the title of this book I own. I bought it in high school, and it was really excellent at going through all the basic performance upgrades and explaining what each one was, and how it operated in the engine in its most basic form. I *think* it was called The High Performance Handbook, but I could be way off.

Do you have a Chiltons or Haynes manual for your rod? I'd recommend picking up one of those. A Motors Manual is awesome - the old ones have tons of detail - but they are a little pricey, and they generally cover the entire line of a brand instead of just your one car. Very great information in them, however. They are designed for people that do mechanics for a living.

Keep us posted.

So is this pad a vertical extension? I always thought it stuck out horizontally. It still doesnt make sense for it to be vertical because then the head would not bolt down. The only reason I am asking about this is because you said that if the numbers were really deep you can sometimes still see them, or if it was only slightly decked. I know I have that worded kind of weird, but I think I get my point across.

The loudness is DEFINITELY due to exhaust. Hell, my drivers side stops at the just beneath the door! :eek:
I don't think I have too much to worry about, my dad knows about engines, just not performance modifications. BTW, that book sounds really good. If you find it I will certainly have to try to find one for myself. I understand engines and performance modifications very good for a 15 year old, I am just not at the level to be able to build one, and that is why I enjoy this site so much.

I have a 1972 Passengers Car and 10-30 Series Truck overhaul manual, as well as a 1972 Fisher Body Service manual. Picked 'em up at a swap meet for $75 CAN., and they look pretty damn helpful to me.

Before I go, I just want to say that your knowledge and friendliness is greatly appreciated.

-Tanner

Tanner; The pad is just part of the cylinder deck which isn't covered by the cylinder head,so yes,it is horizontal and flush with the engine block's deck.I must comment that it's refreshing to hear from a young man of your age with a respectable amount of mechanical aptitude,and the ability to spell at a college level!! Good luck on your project,and feel free to ask any and all questions you may have. graemlins/waving.gif Steve

Thanks 67Chevy. If it is horizontal then I am 99% sure that my block has been decked. I'm certain this is just one of many questions I will be asking you guys graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Hi everyone...I hope there are no strict rules regarding bringing up old threads from the past :eek:

Anyways, I finally got to go out and look at my car, and this is what I have found out so far. It has a Rochester Quadrajet 4 barrel carburetor, and the intake manifold has the following numbers on it:

3965577
GM4

So it looks to me like there has been a new engine swapped in that came with a factory four-barrel, and it still has the factory intake manifold which I am hoping can decode which block I have (Am I right?) I think that's about all I have to say, so here are some pictures:

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/82198Resize-Wizard-111.jpg

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/82198Resize-Wizard-21.jpg

Thank you graemlins/waving.gif

Okay, I just want to make sure you're not missing the "pad". The "pad" with the numbers is right behind your alternator. Remove the whole alternator and you should see the pad there. Its about 3-4 in. wide and maybe an inch across and it protrudes foward from the head mounting surface.

The intake manifold decodes to a Qjet/4bbl that was used in 1970 on 300hp and 350hp engines (i'm assuming 350ci engines here).

you can learn about where to find casting numbers and such here www.mortec.com/locatpg2.htm (http://www.mortec.com/locatpg2.htm)

and http://www.mortec.com/castnum.htm shows you what the block and head casting numbers reveal about your parts.

Also, a really easy thing to check is head casting numbers. Remove the four bolts (or nuts if some installed studs) holding down your valve cover. Pull the valve cover up and look for a casting number (usually 6-8 digits long, some also have an "X" on them too). Pulling the valve cover can also show you if any of your pushrods/rockers are broken and possibly damaged springs/valves too.

You might want to do this to both heads as i've often heard of these engine having mismatched heads. Then you could also check for broken/warn parts under that valve cover also.