Yeah, just want to get some opinions on what is the biggest solid roller cam I can go with and still stay streetable in my 509? By "streetable", I mean with enough vacuum for brakes and not having to idle at 1500 rpm.
I have been strongly considering Harold's 502A4 but, even he said it "might" not be suitable for street use(not enough vacuum).
I suppose there is always the option of a vacuum canister but, how useful are they?
Car will definately be raced but, also taken out to cruise-in's and shows not to mention regular weekend cruising.
Thanks in advance, guys!

What heads, converter, and compression?

For those of us that don't have Harolds catalog memorized, what's a 502A4?

502A4LUN Details here:

http://www.chevelles.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/4/19170.html?

I have a custom Comp cam .714/.715 270/275 @.050 on a 112 ls in a 12.7 to 1 compression 540. It is also used mostly for car shows, weekend cruising and occasional drag strip trips. It idles at 950 in gear with a slightly tight convertor. The vacuum is too low for power brakes but the h.p. (830+) is worth buying a electric pump, in my opinion anyway!
That still might be a little radical for your taste but I guess it depends on how much of a h.p. fanatic you are!

Originally posted by SILVERSS454:
I have been strongly considering Harold's 502A4 but, even he said it "might" not be suitable for street use(not enough vacuum).I run that same cam in my 540. I've got manual disc brakes so I wouldn't know about the vacuum but I would seriously doubt there would be enough. I've got around 8" at idle (cam ground on a 110).
Great cam...very streetable for my application.

What master cylinder are you using Bill? for the manual disc brakes? I'd love to get rid of my booster.

Originally posted by Rapid Robert:
What master cylinder are you using Bill? for the manual disc brakes? I'd love to get rid of my booster. Oh crap, Robert. I can't remember exactly! :confused:
We dug thru a catalog at a friend's auto parts store early last summer looking at a million m/c.
If I recall correctly, the application was a later year ('78??) 2nd gen Camaro, manual disc brakes...1" piston bore.
I can ask my bro-in-law...he may remember...sorry I can't be more help. :(

dang double post again.

check it out if you would/can...Thanks Bill.

Originally posted by Rapid Robert:
What master cylinder are you using Bill? for the manual disc brakes? I'd love to get rid of my booster. For what it is worth I am using my power brake master cylinder, I just removed the booster and bolted the master up to the firewall. I had to make a new pushrod and a bracket to make sure it didn't fall out of the recess in the back of the master. But it works perfect for 4 years now.

Originally posted by TJC:
What heads, converter, and compression? Thanks guys for all the input. Any additional opinions are welcomed. The more first hand knowledge I can gather, the easier it will be to make a decision.
My heads are either the well done set of #049's I currently have or a set of Race Rite Oval's from Mike Lewis. Leaning toward the #049's.
Compression should come in at about 10.75:1
Converter will probably be around 3400-3600/
950 HP Holley ontop of either a Edelbrock Air Gap or a Team G single plane oval(yet another decision to make!).

bttt

I think in a 509 with almost 11.0 that cam if spread to 112 should work,, ask Harold.
A Vic Jr with a 1" spacer would be my choice unless you already have the Team G.
The RPM in my opinion is starting to get a little on the small side with 500 inches plus you should have 500+ lb ft from probably 2800 or so ;)
502A4 - 287/295 - 256/264 - 660/.660 - 110

Thanks Mike.
I was actually considering that cam on a 112...hadn't asked Harold yet. I don't want it to be "too tame", if you know what I mean.
I already own a Team G in the oval port configuration. Am I leaving alot on the table by going with it over the Vic Jr.? Do I need to use the spacer with the Team G as well?

Originally posted by SILVERSS454:
Thanks Mike.
I was actually considering that cam on a 112...hadn't asked Harold yet. I don't want it to be "too tame", if you know what I mean.
I already own a Team G in the oval port configuration. Am I leaving alot on the table by going with it over the Vic Jr.? Do I need to use the spacer with the Team G as well? The spacer is something you will need to try but it should help on either intake at 500 inches.
With ovals I can't really tell you but on a 496 with AFR heads the Vic was worth about 12-15HP.
These were out of the box port matched intakes.
The Team G was down about 20HP without port matching.
This does not mean it will be the same in all cases though as the AFR's flow pretty damn good ;) so it may have shown a bigger difference in this case.

Sir, first a pure street grind in a 509,with a 900 rpm idle and 14" is the Crane SR236. Trouble is, my 440 with Harold's old 276/84 makes a bunch more power than a 509 with that cam. ( 116.5 mph vs 118.5 mph in a Camaro which we figured was 300 lbs less than my Chevelle.)

"Street" is very vague btw. Each of us has a different subjective definition. I think my 427 is a bit raggety for street, others have said its docile and well mannered. I wouldn't say that.

Best to define idle Hg, rpm range ,etc so we're not dealing with subjective issues. I tend to have a 'stricter' definition of street, but when you say 12" Hg, or 6500 peak, those are objective statements.

If you could drop CR to 10.25-10.5:1, that 276/84 grind, rollerized, would be a great 12" Hg street cam. If Harold could customize one ( you'll need a step nose billet?), putting the 284 lobe on the intake and the 287 on the exhaust and set them on 112 centers, would be ideal IMHO,i.e. 253/259@.050 and .660/.660 lift. Unfortunately, 11:1 is still a bit stiff here.

Off the shelf, the Comp XR292 is close, Crower 0185 or 01520 done custom on a 112lsa.

Originally posted by 427L88:
Sir, first a pure street grind in a 509,with a 900 rpm idle and 14" is the Crane SR236. Trouble is, my 440 with Harold's old 276/84 makes a bunch more power than a 509 with that cam. ( 116.5 mph vs 118.5 mph in a Camaro which we figured was 300 lbs less than my Chevelle.)

"Street" is very vague btw. Each of us has a different subjective definition. I think my 427 is a bit raggety for street, others have said its docile and well mannered. I wouldn't say that.

Best to define idle Hg, rpm range ,etc so we're not dealing with subjective issues. I tend to have a 'stricter' definition of street, but when you say 12" Hg, or 6500 peak, those are objective statements.

If you could drop CR to 10.25-10.5:1, that 276/84 grind, rollerized, would be a great 12" Hg street cam. If Harold could customize one ( you'll need a step nose billet?), putting the 284 lobe on the intake and the 287 on the exhaust and set them on 112 centers, would be ideal IMHO,i.e. 253/259@.050 and .660/.660 lift. Unfortunately, 11:1 is still a bit stiff here.

Off the shelf, the Comp XR292 is close, Crower 0185 or 01520 done custom on a 112lsa. Gene,
Read the first post.. this is not a "pure street" deal.
All that was requested was enough vacuum to run the brakes.
With 500+ inches & 10.7 in compression I think Harold's cam on a 112 should make about 10" & will do it but feel Harold should be consulted.

As for peak power, it should be about 6200 at a guess with ovals as they have a smaller cross-sectional area. If it was a bigger head it would be another 3-400 higher give or take ;)

I do agree that the compression is high, especially for iron heads but do not be afraid to put some cam in a big engine they like it,, compression or not.

Yes,thank you Mike, I re-red and he was quite clear.

BTW, I visited the on-line Isky catalog, and they didn't have an SR in that 250-260@.050 range? True? Seems like anice size.Being an Isky dealer,do they?

Originally posted by 427L88:
Yes,thank you Mike, I re-red and he was quite clear.

BTW, I visited the on-line Isky catalog, and they didn't have an SR in that 250-260@.050 range? True? Seems like anice size.Being an Isky dealer,do they? =

Oh yea,, they got lot's of lobes not listed in that range from about .680 thru .740
One of their downfalls is they do not have the lobe variety of Comp., Crane or Harold though so we do use a number of Comp customs at times.
As soon as Harold gets "settled" I will probably be buggin him assuming the corporate crap doesn't get in the way ;)

I spoke to Ron Iskiderian once by phone when I first was putting the old L88 back together. Sure seemed like a stand-up guy. Decided to go much smaller on cam and Harolds 276/84 grind was spot on for what I needed. Some good folks in this business, eh!

Originally posted by 427L88:
I spoke to Ron Iskiderian once by phone when I first was putting the old L88 back together. Sure seemed like a stand-up guy. Decided to go much smaller on cam and Harolds 276/84 grind was spot on for what I needed. Some good folks in this business, eh! =
That's why I try to do so much with them,, great products, good people, smaller company that still actually cares about their products plus how many other places can you call & ask for the owner & actually carry on a conversation with them without feeling like a piece of meat in my yard,, which is not a real good place to be a "piece of meat" :D

Just gotta get Ron to design more lobes,,, ;)