We recently built a 468 for our drag race truck.

Installed an Isky Z-89 with Isky lifters (solid lifter cam & lifters). Used the supplied Isky rev lube on both cam & lifter faces. New Isky 8005 springs installed (135 lbs seat). Coil bind was checked at over .730 (Z-89 is .630 lift).
Engine was filled with Shell Rotella 15w-40 and a bottle of the comp cams lube. Run about 20 minutes @ 1800 RPM. Valve lash checked and the oil & filter changed, refilled with the 15w-40 Rotella and another bottle of comp cams lube. Took it to the track, warmed up the engine by driving on the return road, oil pressure was steady @ 70lbs. Made the first pass and everthing was great, made the second pass and noticed a lot of noise in the vlave cover area when we got back. Pulled the covers, every lobe on the cam was wiped out....Pulled the engine, vatted the block, had to grind the crank becuase of the damage from debris, new cam bearings etc...

Bought a Crower cam, part#01356, Comp lifters 800-16 (EDM hole). Installed with the comp pro-lube, poured EOS over cam & lifters. Filled with Rotella 40w single grade (SL rated). Used the same heads with the Isky springs. Used the same break-in procedure but checked the valve lash 3 times before we ran it at the track. Did not change the oil before we ran it at the track. Made 8 passes, last two it fell off about .15, so we pulled the valve covers, 6 exhaust valves loose, 4 of those had just about wiped the lobes off, all of the intakes look perfect...the engine only sat about 2 days before we fired it up.

WTF I am missing here ?

With the new oil pump & machine work the oil pressure is 70lbs and never moves around. Lifters fit in the bores good, and spin when I rotated the cam by hand. We checked the exhaust valve to piston clearance before pulling the heads and it was .135 on the two cylinders with decent exhaust lobes left.

Are the lifters getting oil?
Also -- you maybe running out of oil in the pan
I would also look at the lifter bore alingment

Are the lifters getting oil?
Also -- you maybe running out of oil in the pan
I would also look at the lifter bore alingment

Plenty of oil as far as we can tell. And it got a new oil pan with 3 more quarts for the second build just to make sure.

How did it look on the oil pre-lube ?
Your not using restrictors are you ?

How did it look on the oil pre-lube ?
Your not using restrictors are you ?

Plenty of oil to the top end (my drill was laboring to make 45lbs but it held steady) and no, no restrictors.

I am gonna say that not changing the oil after break-in. EOS is pretty thick stuff IIRC. Plus assembly lubes in there.

Did you remove the inner springs for break-in?

Eric

What are the spring pressures?

did You Remove The Inner Springs For Break-in?

Eric

X2.....

Did you remove the inner springs for break-in?

Eric

x3

I just broke in a big solid cam a few weeks back on the dyno. Used the rotella and the comp. break in lube ( two bottles) and used some old Moroso moly paste I had left from a motor I built about fifteen years ago. So far after twenty minutes run time and about 6 dyno pulls all is well. The only thing I did different is my cam is ground on a P-55 core and I took the inner springs out for break in, they are about 150 on the seat and 340 over the nose. Hope this helps, L.T.

Sorry to see you had 2 cam failures?

Is this a flat tappet or roller cam?

Who told you to still use shell rotella for cam/lifter breakin,the older CI rated rotella was ok but not the newer CJ oil.

If you used the new CJ rated 15w-40 shell rotella for flat tappet cam breakin its NG,period esp withe comps new lube that didnt test well not to mentione the crappyt red cam assembly lube that runs off before you have time to install the motor and fire it up.

I had that new CJ oil tested 2x and both times it didnt have enough zddp to properly protect cam/lifters on breakin let alone for ongoing protection.

I also had the comp lube tested and it was good on P but but was surprising low on Zinc which is the most important thing for flat tappet cam breakin to help prevent scuffing so i would not use it when gm eos ,cranes superlube breakin concentrate,cam shield,and ZDDPlus are now all avail from the web and have good zddp lvl's.

If you used comps red cam/lifter assembly lube thats shakey at best too,only stays put for a short period of time.

I have been recomending cranes grey moly paste as a cam assembly lube along with chevron's delo 15w-40 and gm's eos for flat tappet cam brakin both of which have considerably more ZDDP then the oil/cam lube you used,too bad you missed these recommendations. They have been in the cam/lifter/oil sticky's at the top of both the Performance & Engine forums for i believe at least a yr now.

But the assermbly lube/oil/eos is not the only thing that can contribute to flat tappet cam failure even though they are very important for succesfull cam/lifter breakin. Improper install/prelube/damage(possibly scratching-dings) of new cam lobs/lifters prior to or uppon install along with too much cranking prior to inital fireup can also contribute to cam/lifter failure too.

Did you leave the intake off when doing the valve adj & then apply more cam lube to cam lobes you could get to post valve adj?

Did you properly pre-lube the motor prior to fireup?

If your running high spring rates with dual springs did you remove inners for cam breakin?

Did you check to see if the lifters were rotating in all the bores unnpo install & then after with the motor running?

Rocker /retainer/stud inerfearance can also contribute to cam/lifter failure along with improper too high of a spring rate then cam/lifters are rated for.

Improper flush & cleaning of motor/block and oiling passeges leaving metal particulates in the oiling system after the 1st cam fail could have contributed to the 2nd cam failure,so on and so forth.

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In the future/next time arround not matter what tyoe cam you run i would:

Strip the motor down completely and clean/flush till perfectly clean in all oil passages.

Have all lifter bores checked for centrality/location by an experiened machinest to ensure all is ok prior to putting any ore $ into that block.

If all is ok then re-assemble motor using crane grey moly past on cam lobes/lifters faces-feet that contact the lobes only,no paste on sides of lifters.

Remove inner springs if running them prior to cam/lifter install and use otters for breakin only.

Adj valves with intake off and re-apply where possible more grey paste to lobes where it wiped off durring valve adj.

Gently Pour some gm eos over cam/lifters ,then install intake.

Install delo 15w-40 oil in crankcase and prelube motor using a drill and pr0per tool to presurize the lifter galley.

Make sure to get timing right so it fires up fast with minimal cranking .

Buy a filter mag for the oil filter this time arround.

Run motor at approx 2k-2400rpm varying it for approx 25-30 mins .
Change oil/filter right after 30 min breakin is done. Place a 20" box fan in front of the grill/radiator to helpcool motor/oil for cam breakin.

Ensure you crank in plenty of base/total timing to ensure motor/oil doesnt overheat during cam breakin.

Cahnge the oil/filter post cam breakin & install more 15-40 delo and another pint of gm eos and fire it up again just to get the fresh oil/eos thru motor again,then re-install inner springs if running them.

I am rec running another pint of eos in the post cam breakin oil change because with higher perf cam with hi spring rates/dual springs it more insurance to ensure the cam gets a little more smooth breakin time with the inner springs installed in case there is a little more breaking in of cam lobes to lifters going on after the inner springs are re-installed. Just run that 2nd oil change a short time like 200-300 miles on the street or a race or 2 if it's not a street motor.

Then after that make sure to run an oil with plenty of zddp and maybe you could run some cam shield along with that oil too boost the zddp lvl for more protection in the future.

So keep these things in mind for the future and good luck.

Scott

What are the spring pressures?

135 on the seat, 380 over the nose..

Did not remove the inner springs...

What kind of clearance on valve stem to guide? Could they be tightening up with heat????

Wouldn't the clearences in the guides get larger with heat. I think there a lot of piss poor camshafts floating around out there also. Forgot, I put Valvoline vr-1 20-50 and a bottle of Redline additive before we made the pulls. I did make sure the lifters were rotating when I put the motor together. Check into the P-55 core deal, from what I understand all the circle track guys run em.

Is this a flat tappet or roller cam? Flat tappet


I had that new CJ oil tested 2x and both times it didn't have enough zddp to properly protect cam/lifters on break in let alone for ongoing protection. It was the straight 40w - CF-4 / SL rated oil. It's not CJ rated. http://www.shell.com/home/PrintFramework?siteId=rotella-en&FC3=/home/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/product_rotellasingle.html

If you used comps red cam/lifter assembly lube thats shakey at best too,only stays put for a short period of time. Machine shop recommended the lube, I have always used the Isky rev-lube in the past.


Too much cranking prior to inital fireup can also contribute to cam/lifter failure too. This engine fired immediately when it was first cranked.

Did you leave the intake off when doing the initial valve adj & then apply more cam lube to cam lobes you could get to post valve adj? Yes, everything was recoated and then the EOS was poured over the cam & lifters.


Did you properly pre-lube the motor prior to fireup? Yes, we had oil at every rocker arm.

Rocker /retainer/stud inerfearance can also contribute to cam/lifter failure along with improper too high of a spring rate then cam/lifters are rated for. The rockers (Manley rollers) clear everything with room to spare. And the springs are right on what Crower recommends

Improper flush & cleaning of motor/block and oiling passages leaving metal particulates in the oiling system after the 1st cam fail could have contributed to the 2nd cam failure,so on and so forth. Never say never I guess but this block was cleaned & oil passages brushed at the machine shop and then was washed & cleaned again by me be before assembly. I have assembled many over the past 30 years and have this part down pat..

What kind of clearance on valve stem to guide? Could they be tightening up with heat????

This is one area we are still looking at, The failure of only the exhaust lobes with the intakes looking damn near perfect makes everything on the exhaust side suspect. I don;t know the actual clearance right now but I will in the next day or two.
With all of the intakes & two exhaust lobes looking perfect I am having a hard time believing the failure mode is oil or pre-lube or break in related.

you might try to use eos and kendell gt 20 50 kendell oil as of jan 08 has zinc and other stuff for flat tappets hope this is some help:yes:

[QUOTE=SWHEATON;1980031]Sorry to see you had 2 cam failures?

If you used comps red cam/lifter assembly lube thats shakey at best too,only stays put for a short period of time.


Remove inner springs if running them prior to cam/lifter install and use otters for breakin only.



What picked up in the original post was the comp cam lube...that garbage red stuff. The only time I had a cam failre was before I found out about the thivk gray/black moly stuff and the Red Thin stuff is useless!

I beleive using the correct cam break in lube, EOS and removing the inner vavle springs and using the the "OTTER" springs like Mr. Wheaton stated
( sorry I couldnt resist, weve all had our typo's) and I believe all would have well fine otherwise.