well i want to liven up the 305 a little bit. it currently is a stock LG4 305 (160hp). it has a 2bbl carb on it as well. i have a 4bbl rochester carb that im going too rebuild and a stock aluminum 4bbl intake, that will be going on the car in a few months. it also has true 2.5 dual exhaust, summit turbo mufflers, and exhaust manifolds. i do have headers, but im not sure if they are for a chevelle. so im going to buy new ones in a few months as well. the tranny is a powerglide and i belive it has 308 gears in the rear.

my question is, should i get some 1.6 rocker arms and put them on the stock cam? or should i get one of these cams...
Crane Powermax 2010
378/401 184/194 duration
Cane Powermax 2020
401/423 194/204 duration

would it be worth gettin roller tip rockers/stamped rockers in 1.6. or would a new cam with stock rockers be fine? all im looking for is to wake the 305 up and add a little bit of bump in the idle as well.


thanks

aaron

Slow down your idle, and retard your timing. That will give you a little "bump", Nitrous will wake it up and make your timing just right.

im not a fan of n2o. i never really liked it, and i really dont like after watching fast and furious.

plus it is to expensive, and u have to keep refilling the bottle. i was just looking to spend like 150.00 that will give me some more lowend, and a little bumpity bump. sonthing that is their all the time.

aaron

I hate to be brtually mean, but I bet there are more junkyard, running, not leaking 350 engines sitting in a farmer's field or a yard just waitining for the car. The engine you have is a dog, and will require more work than its worth to get it where you will have fun with 3.08s.
I would start asking around, looking around, whatever for a 350 to buy. A guy I used to work for took an extremely strong running 350 chev out of a pickup with no doors, springs for a seat, a blown out windshield, and other stuff. Truck went to the yard, the engine still sits in back as a backup irrigation pump motor.
I would ditch the 305 and just find a 350. Keep looking and I bet you could have a decent running one for $500 or so, less than a cam-heads-tune-whatever that you will need to do, and you can save that $$ for work on 350.
My .02.

I wouldn't work with a 305. Thats just me though. There are enough rotting 4 bolt 350's out there to satisfy just about everyone, nevermind the 2 bolts.

Matt

Aaron, these guys have a lot of truth to what they are saying. BUT, a lot of these guys have never run a 305 in a 68-72 Chevelle and most of them just hand you down the "305s are dogs" that they got handed down in the 80s. True, a 2bbl 305 with 3.08s and a powerglide is not really fun, but we're only starting out in the hot rod game and what isn't fun to them can be fun enough for us!

I ran a 305 in my Chevelle for almost two years. And truthfully, a lot of 305s will out run those "junkyard/backyard" 350s. I had the 170hp version of the 305, probably the same as yours, except mine was stock with a hydraulic roller from the factory. When it was in my car it had hooker comps, a performer intake, a 600cfm Holley (way too much carb) and all else was stock. It ran a best of 10.6x in the 1/8th mile, but I'm not sure that's all it had in it, I wasn't driving it. I swapped to similar-build (except a small hyd flat tappet) 350 and knocked about .5 seconds off the 1/8th mile time. BUT, the 350s worst runs are on par with the 305s solo run. I'm not sure If I couldn't have gotten a better time, and got real close into the 350s times.

All that being said, i was running it through a TH350 but with 2.73s gears. There's fun to be had with a 305 and what a lot of these older guys don't realize is that us teens can't always afford to buy even the cheapest good-running 350 out there.

Okay, now here's my opinion on what you should to. You should get the 1.6 rockers, whichever ones you can afford. They aren't too expensive, and when you do swap a bigger SB in, you can re-use them too. They'll add power since they usually make tiny cams come alive.

Also, try to find a buddy around you that wants 1.6 rockers too. You only need enough rockers for the intakes, so half a set will do. If you were closer, I'd offer to go halfs on a set, since I also want some. (Caution, the 1.6s might make the pushrods bind with the heads. BUT, if you're not afraid to, you can just take the heads off and use a file to open up the pushrod holes. At this point, you can even see if you could put in a slimmer head gasket to bump the CR up a bit too.)

"You should get the 1.6 rockers, whichever ones you can afford"


I'm not too sure I agree with that statement, I'd get Harland sharps,Crane,Comp,Crower...not the pretty blue ones,especially if you plan on using them in a bigger better buildup down the road.

350's are an easy find in my area, $100-$200 will buy you a rusted chevy with usually a descent 350 to work with. I scored a 400 last week for $125 and it was already pulled out. I really wouldn't waste my time if looking for any easy power. 350-400 HP with a 350 or 400 is fairly easy, but with a 305 it would probably be a challenge. Leave the 3.08 gears in for good streetability and find a 350 or 400 to work on, even if it takes awhile to get it together. If ya lived nearby I'd give you one, I've got about twelve or so here. Bob

Imho, drop in a generic "Performer" cam and lifter kit!! Summit PN SUM-K1102!! Cost is right at $80.00 plus gaskets!!

The old Performer cam is a VERY good mild motor, daily driver cam and it will wake your motor up quite a bit, imho..

Spec's, 204/214, 112/107, .420"/.442" lift.

pdq67

Okay, yeah, Rapid Robert is right! I meant the best GOOD ones you could afford from a GOOD company. Sorry, I just assume everyone should buy from good quality sources.

The problem with finding 350s easily, is the ones that are cheap and easy to find are usually 8.0:1 or lower compression ratios, and that 9:1 305 he already has (at least my 170hp verion is..) might actually outrun them. BUT, he could also get one of those low comp 350s and drop his 58cc heads on it to bring the CR back up. In fact, that might be the best plan.

Still, if you're going to throw money at the 305, the rockers would be better choice than the cam. Just because of the re-use-ability factor. (Well, you COULD re-use the cam and make truck-torque engine 327-400, but you'd likely want a bigger cam with more top end ability.)

thanks for all the help guys.

right now i pretty much have to make do with what i have. i can get a 86 trans am with a 400 chev in it for 500.00 off my cousin. but the thing is, my dad wont let me swap motors until i have driving experience. but he will let me cam it or somthing along those lines to make it run a little better.

i know the 305's arn't the best engines to start with, but i gotta start somewhere. my dream engine is a 400. in a few years i plan on a procharged 406 for the velle, with a tko600 and 410s in the rear. so mainly what i do now will be temp. until i get the 400 and build it. my dad and i also thought about just trying to get the engine off my cousin, but we dont have a garage, and he dont want it sitting outside.

now the questions..

is their a power advantage with the roller tip or even aluminum roller rockres vrs stamped? i know crane and all them have good ones, i will mainly be buying cane.

im also thinking about that performer cam u mentioned pdq.

my 305 is an 85 lg4 160hp 8.5:1cr i belive. i dont really want to take the heads off if i dont have to.


thanks again


aaron

Both the crane cams you listed are stock cams. The performer cam for $80 with gaskets is the best idea thats been presented here so far IMO. Its a real generic cam and has been proven over and over. Stick with the stock rockers. Make sure you get new lifters if the cam dosen't come with them. A 4bbl intake and headers, along with a HEI re-curve kit should waken this thing up a good bit and you can swap all the good stuff into a better motor later on.

The 1.6 rocker will help a little on the bottom but don't waste the money. Does the head have Guide plates? Most lg4's were factory roller? Center bolt heads? :confused:

Your dream combo sounds good except for the 4.10 gears, the TKO600 tranny is geared really low so I bet with a 400 3.08's would be just about perfect. I think the best cam for your little 305 would be Comp's smallest extreme energy 4x4 cam, 250/258 duration with a nice .432/.453 lift, 111 LSA. RPM range in a 350 is 600-4600 so probably 800-5000 in your 305. It'll have a very slight rumpy idle and a lot more torque than your stock setup I bet. The 3.08 gears and tall first gear in the powerglide need all the torque you can give them. Bob

FORGET the cam, the rockers, the engine swap.

GET RID OF THE POTATOGLIDE.

It is the worst possible choice for a low-powered car.

You stick in an automatic/overdrive with the low first gear, and it'll feel like you gained 150 horsepower. (Even a plain ol' TH 350 will be a SERIOUS improvement.)

Dad probably won't even bitch too much. Tell him it's for the gas milage improvement you'll get with the O/D.

Schurky's right IF you can sell DAD on the idea to let you do it!!!

Otherwise drop the Performer in her and go.

$80 cam and lifters vs $120(??) for just the XE cam..

Please figure performance vs value here..

AND the Performer IS a VERY good little old cam, imho...

pdq67

Hey guys....If it is truly a LG4 engine it is a factory roller cam. Use the cam that is in the ram jet an ht383. .431/.451 196/206 @.050. This is a very torquey cam and will help over come the tall first gear in the glide. Don't pull out the roller for a flat tappet cam......

Hey guys....If it is truly a LG4 engine it is a factory roller cam. Not true. The LG4 was around until 1987, and was replaced by the L03 in 1988. All 1986 and older blocks were not factory roller blocks, and I am pretty sure the '87 LG4 still used a flat tappet cam, though it was a roller block.

I can also tell you that my friends ORIGINAL 1989 TBI 305 Camaro had a roller block but a flat tappet cam. We were surprised when we pulled it apart, because we thought they were supposed to be roller.

According to the GM parts system in 1987 the camaro had the LG4 (H.O. 305) this engine did have a roller cam. The LB9 engine , also a 305, Had a flat tappet. ;)

So what which of the 87-up 305s were available with rollers? I have a 305 roller block. I can see the little rollers riding on the cam. All I know is its 87-up (centerbolt 187 heads, passenger side dipstick), a 305, and a roller cam, and supposedly it came out of an 89 IROC Z28 car.

the LG4.....it was the High Output version graemlins/clonk.gif

LG4 was NOT the high output version. LG4 was the base model Q-jet 305 in 82-87. L69 was the high output Q-jet engine, and LB9 was the TPI 305. L03 was the TBI 305. Starting around 1990, ALL 305's were roller. They phased in roller cams in 87-89, but not ALL 87-89 305's got rollers.

With 187 heads, that is a TBI engine (187's were crappy swirl port heads).

what source are you using nova dude? :confused:

sorry, Let me correct my self. After Novadudes post I did research this some. The LG4 was not tagged as an H.O.....but starting in 1987 it did have a roller.
They offered 4 engines in the camaro in 87. LB9(305),
LG4(305),(L98) 350 and the (LB8) v-6.
The LB9 did not have a roller but made 190HP compared to the 160 of the roller. But the cam was very small(less than .395 lift). The point of the whole thing is if he has a LG4 it may have a roller cam.

LB9 tag was used through '92, and some of them WERE roller. Check out thirdgen.org... these guys have debated this stuff quite a bit. smile.gif

Drive it like it is and build another engine, when she's ready drop it in along with another trans. I'd stay away from an overdrive though unless you change the rear gears. A good old TH350 would be fine, and it's a drop in unlike a 700R4. Sell your 305 and glide to help offset the investment.

thanks alot for the help guys.

the 305 is an 85 LG4 (early model block). its the base model 305 (160hp). non roller cam.

right now it has the XR-1 ignition (it had points on it until today). all of a sudden the car started to act weird (the day we were gunna get it inspected( and it was popping out the exhaust and back firing as well)). and the timing was off, and we also think it has a stuck valve. i just picked up new wires (one is bad as well).

i tryed it all, convincing dad into letting me put a 700r in to it and a 4spd manual. but he says since their is nothing wrong with the glide to keep it and drive it. which i agree (im on a tight budget as well). plus i just bought a hurst 1/4 stick shifter as well. i know the glide aint the best tranny. but i like them. i dont like the 305's tho, but i have to make do with what i got.
my dream 400 aint gunna happen anytime soon. (well hopfully in a year it will). and if it ever goes into the velle, it will be n/a for a little while.

i thank everybody again for their help.

aaron

The crane/cam dynamics 266 energizer is pretty sweet in a low compression 305. And, you can get the cam and lifters for usually about $100-110. It really wakes up a 305, and has a very nice sound with just a bit of lope and much sharper throttle response than the itty bitty stock cam. I would also throw a cheap curve kit in the distributor (they really help since most stock distributors have a really slow advance curve) to quicken up the advance. You will also need a new timing chain/gears. With a cheap gasket set, you could get all this stuff for about $150. I ran a combo like this in my old '79 impala 4 door. 2.56's, th350 with a 1800 stall convertor, and a MAYBE 8.0-1 305 with a factory aluminum 2bbl intake and a rejetted stock 2bbl carb, lightly ported 434 (1.72 valves) heads, 266 energizer cam, stock exhaust manifolds and dual 2" exhaust. It was a little weaker than stock under about 1500 rpms, but after that it stomped the stock 305. With the 2.56's, it would pull to 70mph in 1st gear, and WAY bury the 85 mph speedo in 2nd. It was the meanest sounding 4 door family car around :D

travis,

thanks. i will look into that cam, and curve kit. is it easy to install a curve kit? and well is it really worth it for a 305?


thanks again

aaron

Curve kits are super easy to install. It takes maybe 10 minutes tops. If your advance weight bushings are in good shape, all you really need to replace is the springs (which controls the advance rate). Over a stock smogger engine distributor, they make a very noticeable difference, and the best part is that they only cost $10-12. I have used them on dozens of engines, and I always get sharper throttle response and if driven normally, small increases in fuel economy.

thanks again. the dist. is the stock points one from the original 307 that was in the car. i put a crane XR-1 electronic ignition in it, so is it still possible to install the kit?

thank

aaron

The crane 2010 was the stock cam in my 85 pick up with a 305. I'm not sure if all the computer controlled q-jet 305's ran it or not but the trucks did. You have room to go bigger.

thanks.

i just didnt want something to big, where it would be insanly radical in the 305 and i couldnt drive it on the street (and dont wanna change tq converter or gears,yet).

aaron

Harold has a cam that was made for the 305 for daily drivers. Check with him on the #.

Here you go Aaron, a list of Harold's old small hydraulics from the Ultradyne days and his descriptions for them. I tried to fine the Lunati PNs as well, but some don't match up. But all the lobes seems to still be available for those too, just not used to make the same cam, or ground on a differen LSA. Best to call Harold to ask about those. The ones i got Lun PNs for, are UD cams.

Adv LSA ValveLift .050 Dur

246/254 108 .393/.401 192/199 Ideal street cam for 262-305 cars. Smooth idle, works with stock parts, accessories. Very good in high altitudes. IDLE-4500 ( I can’t find a Lunati PN for this one. But both lobes are still available in different cams)

254/262 112 .401/.432 199/207 Great in 305's bigger & better mileage and power. Smooth idle, broad power range. Works with stock valve train, power accessories. Biggest cam recommended for high altitudes. Great in 305 IROC-Z with TPI. IDLE-4800 (Now 301A1LUN)

262/266 112 .432/.441 207/211 305-350 Good idle, great power- works with all power accessories. Excellent with 350 with TPI. IDLE-5200 (Now 301A2LUN)

266/266 112 .441/.441 211/211 305-350 Good idle and vacuum. Largest cam for 350 with stock TBI/TPI. IDLE-5200 (Couldn’t find an exact match for Lunati. Closest if found was PN 06105. But best check with Harold, he says there’s lots of cams similar in specs but not performance.)

Enrique,

thanks alot man. about how much do these cams run for? are these roller cams as well? because my 305 is a hydrolic cam engine (old style). sounds like the 301a2lun is a nice cam. i will have to mess with dd2000 to see what these cams pull.

thanks again.

aaron

Flat Tappets Aaron. Hydraulic Non-roller.

I'm not sure how much they run for, as neither Summit nor Jegs carry them, I don't think. But you might want to email Bill K or Tom or Mike (Wolfplace) Lewis, I'm sure they can all give you and Idea of what it'll cost.

I'll see if i can pull up a vendor for you.

I still think the Comp Extreme energy 4X4 cam would be the ultimate in this application, CL12-231-2 250 intake 258 exhaust Advertised duration with .432 and .453 lift with 110 lobe seperation angle. Look at the lift values in relation to duration, this is a nice little cam! Pulls 21inches of vacume at a 600 rpm idle in a 350! Designed to build cylinder pressure for more torque. I've got one in a 4X4 pickup that probably weighs almost twice that of an A body and it smokes the tires. Only $97 from Jegs.

thanks alot guys..

Flat Tappets Aaron. Hydraulic Non-roller. .

yea thats what i ment. sorry.

the 4x4 cam in dd2000 makes ALOT of tq. and the 1st UD/Lunati cam makes a bunch of power. i might just go with one of those 4x4 ones. i need tq more than anything.

i thank everybody again.

aaron

You won't be disapointed I'm sure. Good all around power!

Don't be too afraid to buy a Comp Cams either. But it might be a good idea if you COULD (emphesis on could, i know tight budgets limit us) buy the cam alone and buy a set of Isky lifters to go with it.

If not, it's advised NOT to use the lube CC sends you, but a better lube, ask the guys one here for a recommendation. I used regular ol' non-brand moly graphite grease on my CC cam, and it broke in just fine. Key to is LUBE THE CAM AND LIFTERS! I know you're a smart guy, but I'd hate to see your cam wipe.

thanks alot again. hehe.

so i belive its the Comp Extreme energy 4X4 cam CL12-231-2.
why shouldnt i use the lube it comes with, and the lifters?
i wont be getting a cam for a few months yet (more like around xmas time). i was just looking for some goood recomondations for a good cam to liven it up some.
yeah i will def make sure i use pretty much lube on the cam. i was once told, the more the better.

thanks again

aaron

I just installed a Comp Cams cam and lifter set in my 350 and I used their lube with good results. I had two packets of it and I used it all on my cam and lifters. Everything broke in fine. But if someone knows of a better lubricant it couldn't hurt.

Sure, Isky's "Rev-Lube"!!

pdq67

There may or may not be anything wrong with CC's lifters and lube, but it seems a lot of CC lifters wipe out. Mine didn't.

The lube is another story, the one on my cam pretty much fell off before I was ready to fire it, granted It was a long wait. But the moly lube stuck on good. Might be best if you wen't with the Isky lube.

Originally posted by pdq67:
Sure, Isky's "Rev-Lube"!!

pdq67 just seen that stuff in the chevy high performance or the hot rod magazine yesterday. seems to be decent.

thanks again. u guys are geat! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

aaron

I thought Isky's "Rev-Lube" was older than dirt??

Flathead cam lube stuff....

pdq67

I built my 355 for less than $3000 including the checker tranny exchange ($300+$20 shift kit) and I run high 14s with my 2.73s and my track is 5000ft elevation. I think you should drive it like it is and save your money to do it right the first time. IMHO
Zac

How does Isky's "Rev-Lube" compare with GM's EOS as far as breaking in a flat tappet cam?