I have already purchased but not installed the complete cam kit for the XE274 cam, but after reading all of the posts regarding flat lobes I am inclined to think I should make a different cam selection. If I elect for another cam can the other parts in the XE kit still be used? If so please provide a recomendation. I am looking for a 8.2 DCR and a nice torque curve. Here is my Combo.

1969 Chevelle SS
454+.30
Forged Crank and Rods
TRW speed pro hyper pistons .0100 dome
215 oval ports with 100.9 CC chambers
Performer RPM Intake
750 holley DP List 4779
4spd
12 Bolt posi 3.73 Gears

Yes, the other parts in the kit will work with another hydraulic cam. Just an fyi, I installed the xe268 in my truck well over 3 years ago and never had a problem with it.

The majority of BB cam failures/wiping out a lobe(s), is due to the inexperience of the installer and improper break-in procedures.

It's no coincidence that most of these failures are hydraulic cams, the choice of most looking to step up the performance of their street car as well it would appear a large number are a Comp grind. That in itself is not surprising since Comp out sells the competition by a least 2:1.

That being said, it's fesible that any cam company can have a bad cam go out the door but not to the extent you read on this message board.

The truth of the matter is that a cam swap is not necessarily a project that should be undertaken by the average enthusiast despite what you read in the magazines.

When pressed you'd find that many, didn't do some or all of the following: change sprngs, set/check spring heights, check coil bind, check retainer to guide clearance, check piston to valve clearance, degree the cam, didn't use new lifters, didn't use the right assembly lube, didn't lube ALL contact points, didn't use GM EOS, didn't check pushrod length and most importantly didn't adjust the valves correctly or set the preload correctly and didn't prime/prelube before start up.

Another reason is cranking the motor too long and wiping the lobes clean of assembly lube before firing because they don't know how to properly stab in a distributor so the motor fires on the first try!

In addition, some have stated that core shift is the cause for many a BB cam wiping out to which I say nonsense, not an issue in most cases for the typical street car and the power their motors make.

I had a 268H before that that ran fine for quite a number of years. The last rebuild 2 years ago I replaced it with a XE262 and it just went flat with almost no warning, but I wouldn't hold that against Comp Cams. Both were purchased as kits so the springs and lifters would be correct. Since my engine is injected, I wanted (by all recommendations) a cam with a wider lobe separation (114º vs. the normal 110º they offer) so I called Harold Brookshire and he's grinding me a Lunati cam to specs for not much more than an off-the-shelf item.

Nothing against Comp Cams as they seem to be the hot setup for most cars these days. With a regular carbed street motor, I'd probably use 'em again. If the XE274 meets your requirements (spec wise), go for it unless you just really want a custom or hands-on grind.

another reason for failure...if using double or hefty single springs, you need to reduce the spring pressure for break in..either by removing the inner spring on the double or by using reduced ratio rockers

I'm an average enthusiast, I've installed 5 or 6 cams myself (including a Comp XE262) and I've never had one fail. Do your homework so you get the distributor installed right, fill the float bowls in your carb with fuel, and you should be able to fire the engine off right away. On a Holley, you can remove the sight plugs in the float bowls and squirt fuel into them with a plastic squirt bottle, like an old shampoo bottle or something. Then work the throttle a couple of times to make sure you have fuel coming from the accelerator pump squirters. No sweat.

I use the XE284 in my smallblock with no problems.

I run the XE284 in my 402. Couldn't be happier.

Regards,

I have run two XE cams with good results. A XE 274 in a BBC and a XE 268 in a SBC. The XE 274 was in a mild drag car and didn't see alot of miles, but the XE 268 has seen quite a few street miles with no ill effects.

I'm running the XE268H in my BBC 402. I've never installed a cam before. I doped it up really well with cam lube, stabbed it and then lubed the lifters and squirted more lube on the lobes I could see through the lifter valley. I prelubed with the intake off so I could watch everything and re-applied the lifter lube. I had my son help me with the preloading and we made some mistakes. It ran BAAAD when it first lit off and I shut it down. We redid all of the preloads and tried it again. Found some rockers hitting the valve covers so I took them off and relieved the corners. Reset everything, buttoned it up and tried it again the next day. Not the best circumstances to break in a cam. It was fine. I've got 3-4K miles on her and love that cam.

Can someone tell me why initial cranking of an engine will cause cam failure?

I guess I just don't get it! IMO, if you prime the oil system (as you always should) before initial cranking, you'll have oil pressure while cranking. It's not like the oil pump is disengaged while cranking.

To prime the engine, I use an old distributor with the guts removed and spin it with a drill.

That cam will perform great in your combination.It is really a 274/284 with a little than .550 lift and comes to life at about 2500 RPM's and pulls strong to about 5800-6000.It will go more, but power is falling off.Should easily make about 525+HP
Used this cam as replacement instead of factory solid lifter cam in LS6.Decent idle, sounds about same as LS6,but maybe a bit more thump at 1000 rpm's.Mid range pull to max RPM is much stronger though.Needs to be fed lots of gas.Enjoy.

Long cranking of an engine with a new cam/lifters will wipe the moly lube off of the contact area of the lobes and lifters. Most of a cams oiling doesn't come from the oiling system itself, but rather from splash lube thrown off the crank/rods. Thats why you have to bring the revs up to 2000-2500 immediately after firing a fresh motor, to get enough oil in there to do its job.

FWIW, I know a lot of people bash comp cams, but I have been using their cams for many years and have never, ever had one go flat. I have also used a lot of crane cams and a few from other companies. Again, never a flat lobe. I have never used EOS on ANY engine until this new 388 I just fired up a few weeks ago. Granted, these were not balls out race cams, but the same street grinds that a lot of people seem to have trouble with. I do believe that the XE line is more vulnerable to wiping lobes due to their very agressive lobes, but the XE268 in my truck, and the XE284 in the 388 I built for a buddies street rod, are still working just fine (that XE284 is one nasty sounding stick, BTW). My only real complaint about the XE's is the valvetrain noise. The comp 294s solid in my new 388 is QUIETER than the XE268 in my truck.

I would also attribute there cams going flat to there poor excuse for cam lube, the stuff falls right in your oil pan 30 minutes after you put it on, ill never use it again. I go with the crane moly lube, the stuff is real thick and you cant hardly get it off your fingers when your done.

Thanks everyone for your reply. I had suspected that there may be a few individuals on this message board that are partial to a specific person or cam manufacturer and were therefore downplaying the performance of this product line. All I care about is a strong running big block. If the vast majority of you feel that this cam, if installed properly, will perform as it should and that comp cams is not suffering from quality control issues I will use it. I believe that it matches my combo very well. I just didn't want to go through the trouble of installing a part that is faulty from the start.

I have a XE274 in my 406 small block and it has ran fine for 4 years or so. With about 6,000 miles on it. My 454 big block I have has a XE 284 in it and it was fine as well, even with double valves springs on start up. I had about 2500 miles on it before I yanked the engine out for my small again. I had to start bracket racing again and had to put the small block in there for that.

Originally posted by 69SS4spd:
I had suspected that there may be a few individuals on this message board that are partial to a specific person or cam manufacturer and were therefore downplaying the performance of this product line. All I care about is a strong running big block. If the vast majority of you feel that this cam, if installed properly, will perform as it should and that comp cams is not suffering from quality control issues I will use it. There is no quality control issues at Comp and the reasons for failures is as I posted. Remember Comp out sells their competition combined by at least 2:1

Yes it's true, there are those here that are partial to a specific person if for no other reason then his participation on this forum and his discussions on camshaft design.

Let me assure you though that he doesn't have any magic sticks and ALL the major cam grinders have the SAME grinds within a degree or two and .010 lift of each other.

The Xtreme Energy line of cams is excellent, designed for those building street/strip rides and makes better than average power for a given combo. graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/waving.gif

I ran a XE 284 in my 454. It ran real good. I refreshed the motor and run a Ultradyne 276/284 solid. It made a BIG difference. I have tried many cams from different manufactures. They all can grind nice cams. I have talked to many of the tech people from these places. They can be a lot of help or idiots. I have talked to 3 different people on Comps. tech line. Two of the three fall into the later catigory. If I would have installed my springs at the height one of them told me too, I would have lost my cam within seconds of start up. I did find the guy on the e-mail tech line to be knowledgeable. Harold on the other hand is very sharp and one of the nicest, helpful, cam people I have ever delt with. Bottom line is your Comp. will be just fine. I will continue to run Harolds grinds mainly because it did everything he said it would and because he cares about everyone who buys a cam from him.

Originally posted by Live466:
I ran a XE 284 in my 454. It ran real good. I refreshed the motor and run a Ultradyne 276/284 solid. It made a BIG difference. As it should!

Apparently though you wanted to try a BIGGER, solid flat tappet as the XE284 was/is a hydralic flat tappet.

Now if one was so inclined to do an apples to apples comparison running a similar COMP grind all they need do is order part # 11-678-5/Grind # XS282S

This COMP grind has 244/252 degrees duration @ .050 tappet lift, 154/163 degrees duration @ .200, .590/.598 gross lift and is ground on a 110LSA.

In short IDENTICAL to UDHarold's grind and you could have it in 48 hours, 24 hours if you really need it and pay less for it!! graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/waving.gif

Ed,

Do you really think that ALL 120-lb Blondes are equal?

UDHarold

(BTW, just wait until you see what I'm planning for surprises!)

I've only been speed reading the relevant responses, but it does sounds like its fits your combo nice.
Get ANAL about it . I mean that seriously. Best bet is to run it in on some older outer springs, or your new ones. No dampner/inner. You can't pull the oil bleed option that Harold OK'd for me ( to placate my anal 'can't wipe this one out' syndrome ), but buy some cyrogenic insurance if you seee fit.

Biggest thing, as I said, be anal. Roll the motor over around ALOT and check everything. I thought I might have rolled my new motor over by hand so may revs that the assembly oiling might have broke down!

Defintely use light springs for the run-in. You ** might ** not need to if everything else is up-to-snuff, but if anything is a bit amiss, it'll should make it through run-in and live long.

Make sure the lifters spin in their bores. Have to push down on them with your finger sometimes to get them to turn. ( no timing chain on yet obviously )

Slather that cam up with moly lube, use EOS jsut before you glue the intake on () bathe the cam galley in it!), pusmp EOS down your psuhrod tubes, and be careful with your intial lash settings. ( did mine with intake off so I had visual.)

You and your cam will live long and prosper.

( my block ate a Crane before - core shift? or did the owner misadjust the valves( it wiped just after he set them again.)? we'll never know.

He said I should have run a solid roller to avoid it happening again.

Doesn't fit my purpose....

Running 1-12 hours at 3400 rpm straight. Brief 1/8, 1/4 mile passes, then reverse the enduro run home.

All with a 'mildy hairy' .600 lift cam from Harold.


Harold, Sir, btw, that bumpstick of yours drove that old 427 hard enough to cross the traps at 117 mph. 1st 1/4 run. It's a hottie for sure!

Aw shucks,I jsut s-l-o-w- read the other responses ( I did see Harold's last before), and see that I inadertently got sucked into some sort of foolishness.

69SS4speed, I have to S_L_O_W down my consciousness for a minute to remind you to see clear of the haze....

And I 'ain't' correcting my last reply's dislexic spelling. I typed fast because the answer to 69's Q is clear, go forward, check eveything, get anal!

I.e., it was only to help 69SS4speed with his quandry, and NOT to fuel any schirmish. :(

Hey go to, that's a pretty pretensious moniker. Maybe we can have a beer sometime and arm wrestle, so you can either put up, or let me break your arm.

smile.gif Would please me as much as it seems to please you to break our collective balls. smile.gif

Really! smile.gif

I've only wrestled the best before and lost. smile.gif

OK 69, now back to full speed consciousness, I wont check back.
You'll be fine! GOOD LUCK! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Hey go to guy, if everyone has the same grind, within a whatever degree or inch, why then are there so many cam manufacturers with COMPLETELY different grinds, ive never seen Ersons 990AH cam anywhere except erson, ive never seen my howard cam anywhere except howard, ive never seen comps XE cams anywhere but comp, ive never seen Harolds 259/267 SBC solid anywhere but UD. What are you getting at, everyone just copies eachother? Thats rediculous. And another thing about the Harold bashing, in 15 minutes that guy gave me more useful information than any other cam guy ive talked to in the last year, and the funny thing is i talked to him 3 times and he had the same answers each time, no i didnt get a UD cam but im definately going to concider it if i ever switch based on him being very knowledgeable. So quit killing on the cam man, he takes his time to come here and answer questions, sure he gets some advertising out of it but hey you dont see "billy badass" from comp, your joe X from crane or anyone else for that matter that has any significant role in any company

Man, How old are you guys?

Answer my question. To answer yours... NO ive never read a master lobe listing but im guessing that its a core listing of all the COMMON cam grinds for example: 280 somthing adv. 230@.050 .480 lift Everyone and there brother lists this cam...yes my guess is its a common core, ground a hair different by everyone or that same cam is ground by federal mogul and then comp/crane/lunati/everyone slaps there name on it and calls it there own. Am i right?

go_to_guy, aka ED, is no longer posting using this name.

For a guy who had no use for this site, he sure can't stay away, like we would all like.

[ 10-12-2003, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: Al ]

Well where do i find a cam lobe master listing at? Im curious now, cause like ive said there are some cams ive seen duplicates of all over the place then theres the ones i concider unique to a company. Let me know, thanks. And for example since you seem to have quite the knowledge on this have you ever see a 312/312 268/268 .575/.575 on a 108 anywhere besides erson? Not trying to up stage you just wondering

Actually, I would like to see a apples to apples comparison. You are right about getting that comp. cam in a couple days. Problem is, I have no doubt it would be the wrong one, or for a AMC or something.
69SS, Sorry this got away from your subject. You will enjoy your new cam and it will probably give you years of service. If you do have any problems, I would not trust their tech people to help me open the box it came in.
Peace to all. And keep your rubber burning.

"go_to_guy, aka ED, is no longer posting using this name.

For a guy who had no use for this site, he sure can't stay away, like we would all like."

Al, whats the purpose? Is this personal? and when you say "we" I'm not sure who you are talking about!

This site should not have "clicks" like a bunch of school girls! graemlins/angry.gif

We = the moderators and myself. He was banned once for being a total buffoon and here we go again.

"click" like schoolgirls? give your head a shake man, out of over 13,000 signups, 3 have been asked to leave and they were for danged good reasons. I have enough garbage and ignorant posts from that account to justify removing him and the members of this site do not need his constant berating.
You signed up 6 months ago? OK, you are not part and parcel to having these forums disintegrate into constant bickering fueled by him.

gatewayracer:

"we" means most of us here
I guess you weren't around when Ed <racer1320> was banned from this site for treating eveyone as though they were little peons and he was the know it all KING.

Ed has a very nice - fast Chevelle but just can't/won't treat other board members like they are human beings. Anyone that don't do it exactly his way was degraded and called names.
It's just his nature I guess because the same thing happens on other sites.

{EDIT}
Al beat me to it, I type too slow :(

Back to the topic. I wiped out several xe294 cams.I believe EVERY one of them was due to MY ignorance, problem was I didnt realize it till it was all over!!!! My ego was shot. I give cudos to Jegs for treating me like a HUMAN, unlike racer 1320 did!!!!! I have learned alot through that experience! and alot of people on this board and the Camaro board really helped me thorugh it when I was down.
Milan

Originally posted by AllGoNoShow:
Man, How old are you guys? Well old enough to not put up with anybody's idiocy anymore, 'usually' old enough to laugh it off if'n its irrelevant, but still young enough to provide a complete and unabridged physical ass whooping if logic doesnt work.

:cool:

but still young enough to threaten, and throw in insults and attacks??

wow does the protical son return under a new name again could this brian holcombe be the actual guy only time will tell.

Nickel333,

Several cam companies actually have their " Lobes " listed in their catalogs...others have them posted on their websites....Others have seperate sheets that they list them on.

In general they list a small amount of important data about any given lobe.Normally they would list something like this :

Type of tappet and diameter.
Lobe number or name.
Lobe lift.
Gross valve lift at various rocker ratios.
Advertised duration.
Dur @ .050
Dur @ .100
Dur @ .200
Dur @ .300
Valve lash specs

Often times these are also catagorized by lobe " Family " a given set of lobes that were designed with certin simularities ect...

Some lobes are designed specifically for use as an intake only and others as an exhaust only...others cans be used as both.

These specs are used to describe a " lobe " only not a given camshaft....These lobes can be ordered up on various LSA's or different combos for specific uses.I have ordered several cams from various cam grinders from their lobe data..cams that they didnt show in their catalog.They are very usefull tools ... As always it's best to discuss these with someone from the cam grinder before ordering them up....The cam designer will know far more about the lobe than what you and I see printed in the lobe spec sheets.

EDIT : One other thing...These Lobes Specs printed in catalogs or sheets are not always " ALL " the lobes they have masters on....Crane as an example their lobe spec sheet and whats om their website is no where near a complete listeing of all thats available.... I have been collecting their lobe spec sheets since the 70's and there are hundreds of older lobes not listed in the current sheets.Granted most newer lobes are " Better " but that doesnt mean that in certin applications an older lobe wont work just as well...But many times there are newer lobes out that missed the catalog printing or havent been updated on the websites.

No insults, no threats, just obliged promises. I try and carry myself as a gentleman.

I think I have a couple of master lobe sheet's somewhere but I was sitting here trying to remember what box I have them in and whose they are??

I do figure somebody like UDHarold and the guys that ran companies like Racer Brown, Clay Smith, Reed, Isky and several others are very good starting points to contact for custom ground cams for a specific application and engine combination... Mr. Dema Elgin's name also pop's out here too..

OR if you can actually talk to the guy that is the camshaft design brains behind CC then do so...

pdq67

PS., Hey Gene, my buddy down south of Birmingham used to make beer money when he was in school here at MU back in the early '60's by arm-wrestling the football players for rounds of beer. He was a small guy that at that time had a set of I don't know what you call them, but the muscles on his back under his shoulder blades were large to huge!!!

Harry just used ta laugh it off and tell me it was no big thing b/c he was just kinda built for it!!

Heck, little, scawny me never was strong enough to do anything like that, but I could walk off with 200 pounds of livestock feed or so from the ground and throw it up onto the delivery truck.. Boy those day's are flat coming to a close fast...

pdq, NEVER judge a book by its cover, right!? One of the strongest guys I ever met, was a 5'6" non-descript, balding 27 year old. He was absolutely unreal. If you saw him in a bar, you'd have no qualms about picking a beef with him. Bad choice.

He was part of Delta Force, or something even deeper than that when I was in the service.

Masters degree to boot. He looked like an "egghead", heck he was! But..... :eek:

Glad he's on our side!

OK sorry for the out-in-left-field digression...

They're called "lats" for short Sir. Those muscles.

i purchased a 274H xtreme cam for my 454. i didn't pull the inner spring and did use a can of EOS. it took a little bit to fire it(wiring trouble). also lubed the crap out of it. i told my engine builder the make sure the spring pressure and installed height was exact. its been mint for 2,000 miles. the car runs awesome also. follow the instructions and let it fly. good luck mike

One thing we all forgot to mention...fill up the oil filter with oil before you install it. Gets the oil flowing a second or two quicker on initial start-up.