Long story short.
I returned from a five day camping trip thurs. afternoon. We had asked our neighbors to feed and water our pets. Upon returning I am informed that my neighbors son came in the house to find my oldest sons friend Jack in the house. He claimed my son asked him to check on the animals before we left. Jack got the code to our lockbox after my son told it to him a while back, (a mistake on my sons part). My son claims he never asked him to do this.
I called Jacks dad to inform him about this. Jack and Travis have been friends since 1st grade, they are 13 now. Jacks dad says yes it was wrong for Jack to be in the house and he will take care of it.
Here is where it gets messy. I explained that I don't believe he is a theif as I don't see anything missing, but he was in my house. I told him Jack is no longer allowed on my property, or to play with my son. He says well isn't that a bit excessive. My reply is "your kid was in my house without my permission while I was gone, what part don't you understand?" He comes back and says I don't need to get lippy with him. I told him I was going to call the sherriffs dept. but decided to contact him instead. He proceeded to call me an a hole and numerous other things, the conversation got even more heated where he called me out. ( Big mistake) I'm 6' 230 with Marine corps training, he's 5'8 with small man syndrome. More words were passed, and he hung up on me.

I called the sherriffs dept and had them pay Jack and his dad a visit.
My son is destroyed as Jr. High starts in two weeks and Jack is his best friend. I didn't want this to happen, but I also didn't want Jack wandering around my house while I am out of town. I have guns, my wife has jewelry, and the kids have game systems. This really sucks.
Did I over-react?
Rob

You asked for opinions, so here's mine. To me, I would say you went overboard. The other dad said he'd take care of it - perhaps you should have let him. Maybe you and the other dad (as well as Jack and your son) should have sat down together and had a little chat...

x2

Depends how the conversation went. Overreacted or not, I think you are well within your rights to disallow the other boy from returning to your house. The other father should have let you handle your side.

Tim.

This happen with my younger brother once. He told his GF the code to the garage door.

My mom and him went to look at a university. When they came back his GF had decorated the house for my brothers return.:D

My mom was upset, she talked to the girl and my brother. Then she changed the code.:D

Should you be upset? yes.

Should you scream at the parent? probably not.

I would call him and apologize.

The kid, I wouldn't let him back over for at least a week. He will get the hint.

Sounds like you have security issues all around. Should of changed this lock box code as soon as you knew there was a breach. Dont know that I would have my neighbors kid poking around my house full of weapons either. He does something dumb and hurts himself and your up the creek without a paddle.

Board your animals at a trusty place AWAY from your home next time or take them with you. Dogs are fine, cats will live for 5 days with a pile of food and water and so will birds.

You asked for opinions, so here's mine. To me, I would say you went overboard. The other dad said he'd take care of it - perhaps you should have let him. Maybe you and the other dad (as well as Jack and your son) should have sat down together and had a little chat...


X3 Sounds to me like you made a mountian out of a mole hill.

Sounds like you have security issues all around. Should of changed this lock box code as soon as you knew there was a breach. Dont know that I would have my neighbors kid poking around my house full of weapons either. He does something dumb and hurts himself and your up the creek without a paddle.

Board your animals at a trusty place AWAY from your home next time or take them with you. Dogs are fine, cats will live for 5 days with a pile of food and water and so will birds.

My guns have trigger locks, it would take a lot for a young kid to circumvent them, however an older kid with enough time to pilfer would find the keys.
I wasn't aware the code had been shared, it has now changed. I was fine just contacting the other parent, until he got mouthy with me when it was his kid in MY house. Other neighbors have trust issues with Jack. Eddie Haskell would be a fitting label. I grew up with a neighbor kid with similar traits. Jack is fine in the presence of adults, he doesn't like me because he thinks I'm too strict. Which is fine because he knows he can't get away with stuff when I'm around. It's when he thinks he can get away with something that I get concerned, especially if he talks my kid into doing something he knows he shouldn't. Jacks parents have the "not my kid attitude", and have shown it in the past.
I may have let them play together in a month or so, but my trust was completely blown with this incident.
Rob

X3 Sounds to me like you made a mount out of a mole hill.

Never too late to perhaps call the other father and explain that you may have over reacted. Both fathers should discuss this with the boys. I think a fitting punisment should be they are not allowed to play together until school starts. Just my opinion.

I was fine just contacting the other parent, until he got mouthy with me when it was his kid in MY house. Rob

That I completely understand. I would of been rather heated myself. Guess I cannot blame you for your reaction if the father of the other kid blew you off or was rude and challenging.

Still would get that code changed and tell your son if he hands it out to anyone any and all repercussions (theft or whatever else) that arise will fall on his butt.

What the other kid did was criminal trespass.

You asked for opinions, so here's mine. To me, I would say you went overboard. The other dad said he'd take care of it - perhaps you should have let him. Maybe you and the other dad (as well as Jack and your son) should have sat down together and had a little chat...

Yes, the other dad said he would take care of it, But why wasnt he taking care of it while he boy was in this mans house?

You need to know where you child is 24/7 365 days a year - If he was taking care of his part being a father he would have known where his kid was

Its people like that, that say they will take care of it that dont know where there childs is 24/7 365 days a year that end up with troubled kids from age 16 and on

If that boy went out and did something yes it could go on him but do you realize if he got in this mans guns a shot someone on his land, who do you think is getting Pi$$ed on ? The poster here

A buddy of mine lost everything due to a 13 year old kid and has nothing today

You did the right thing

i mentor kids (boys) and even though i'm a little heavy handed, i think you might have gone a little far. i think you could salvage this, you are a marine and know how to handle things on both sides, yes you are the bigger man, and now you can prove it.

personally, i would call the father and apoligize. if he won't take your apology, bets are off. but....at 13 you could have sat the boy down, talked to him and made it clear he is to be nowhere near the house unless somebody (adult) is home. you were 13, you have a 13 year old, you know what they are thinking with at that age. i'm sure he probably didn't see anything wrong, he had a house to sit alone, and watch t.v. that would make a kid feel pretty big. you also said he didn't destroy, or steal anything (which would have put you 100% in the right). i think if you would have talked to the boy, and he was, or is a good kid, you would have made your point. 6' @ 230 is plenty intimidating to a boy.

look, you have every right to be pissed, but this is your kids best friend, and they made a mistake.

i would invite everybody out for pizza, talk it over, make things clear, and make things right. do you have a friend from 1st grade? how important are your friends to you? now put yourself in your kids place.....

personally i would have been pissed, and probably took all the same actions, and made the same remarks...then i would sit down, cool off, change the pad code, and let the kid earn back your trust. talk to your wife, come to some type of agreement, and work it out.

if you find, he played with your guns, stole something or did some other unacceptable action, then stay stead fast in your decision, but if you've presented all info accurately, then maybe you might have been a tad harsh.....

if you've ever seen any of my threads, you'll see i'm not against a good fight, or smacking some smart ass kid. i don't have marine training, but i've always admired the way you guys handle yourselves, and the fact that your questioning your actions, and asking advice, shows you might be rethinking how you handled it. you'll come up with a good alternate plan, and put it to work.

good luck, be fair, take your son's feelings into account. our country is free, because of the brave. show your boy, what your made of......

You asked for opinions, so here's mine. To me, I would say you went overboard. The other dad said he'd take care of it - perhaps you should have let him. Maybe you and the other dad (as well as Jack and your son) should have sat down together and had a little chat...

I agree. :thumbsup:
The bottom line is there was NO damage, tampered items, or missing property.
The kid may have really just been looking after the pets.
I know my kids have friends that we've known for years...basically grew up around our house.
And those friends look up to my wife and myself as a second set of parents.
That kid may feel very comfortable in your house and was just doing y'all a favor...in his mind.

Nobody is supposed to be in your house without you, the homeowner's(parent in this case) permission. If someone is in your house without your permission then they are trespassing nad have broken the law. Thats the way I see it.

You are completely right. The kid shouldn't have been in your house. And since he violated trust, he shouldn't be on your property.
But you can't pick your kids friends, this one might be a blessing compared to the next one.

For this issue, I've got to completely agree with 1blackharley. I don't think he could have said it any better. 64elkynss

depends on how well ya know this kid. if ya coulda talked to him and his pops and yer son and cleared it up, that would be good. but then again a boyfriend of my sister that was pretty much family as far as everyone was concerned took us for a ton of stuff and about $40k from his own family before he split. lookin back, i woulda shown him the door with my 12 gage.

I say you take your boy, and head over to the other guys house...

I also say you go there with an open mind and a hand of friendship. Explain that you were in the heat of the moment when you discussed it with him on the phone, but you would like to discuss the entire matter with the two boys present, and hash the entire thing out. You sound like you have a level head on your shoulders, and I know you felt violated by the kid being in your home.. But thats no reason to get overheated and completely ruin your son's friendship. Possibly the kid was trying to be helpful (which I doubt strongly) but you will be able to gauage his sons reaction in explaining WHY he was in your house, while his supposed best friend is there. You can decide the outcome of the friendship and his access to your home and family. What you do today/tomorrow with this situation can form "Jack's" life path for the entirety of his life. You may do him a lot of good by learning this lesson.

I think alot depends on your son and how he feels about their friendship. If breaking up the friendship bothers your son, then maybe the 4 of you should sit down and talk to mend things with an agreed punishment for the other boy. If your son seems like this friendship isn't that great, then leave things the way they are, JMO.

your son's friend was wrong to be in the house without your permission. But, had your son not given out the code to the garage/house, the kid never would have gotten into your house in the first place. Shame on both. Having said that, the trust with your son's friend is shot. I would say you also need to have a talk with your son on keeping the code secret. Did you overreact? Hard to say without us being there.

Here's how I would have handled it.

I would have taken a good look around the house to see if anything was missing first or tampered with outside of what was neccessary to take care of the critters.

If your son is as good as freinds as he says he is, I'm sure he'd know if his freind is a bad apple or not. If he's doing some questionable things else where and your sons knows about it then it may be the case as why he was in your house.


I then would have questioned my kid again is he sure he didn't ask for help and forgot. I've asked a freind to watch our cat once and my wife asked someone else and they met at our house once so things like that happen.

If everything was in place I wouldn't have said this onteh phone:
I explained that I don't believe he is a theif as I don't see anything missing, but he was in my house. I told him Jack is no longer allowed on my property, or to play with my son.

I would have sat him son down and tried to figure out how he ended up in the house then see if it sounded like a misunderstanding or if he was up to no good.

If things were awry I still wouldn't have said the above but brought it up in person face to face with the 4 of you, you, your son, his freind and his dad and maybe you can get him onthe right path before its to late.

If anything seemed suspicious about his presence there, or his answers don't add up, then I'd limit his visits to only when your there or cut it off completely.

[QUOTE=17Again;1965424]Long story short.
He proceeded to call me an a hole and numerous other things, the conversation got even more heated where he called me out. ( Big mistake) I'm 6' 230 with Marine corps training, he's 5'8 with small man syndrome. More words were passed, and he hung up on me.

Small man syndrome? Sounds to me like maybe you might have an equal but opposite big man syndrome. Some of us call that "being a bully".

Your first job is to make peace with the other dad. You were way out of line as soon as you failed to accept his statement that "he will take care of it". Its not your business to tell someone how to discipline their children.

You have placed your own son in a really ugly predicament for school starting. I can only imagine how difficult it will be for him to face his life long friend at school on the first day.

Anyway, I sound way too preachy. Best of luck with this situation. :)

Not much left to say that hasnt already been said. I would change the password.

i mentor kids (boys) and even though i'm a little heavy handed, i think you might have gone a little far. i think you could salvage this, you are a marine and know how to handle things on both sides, yes you are the bigger man, and now you can prove it.

personally, i would call the father and apoligize. if he won't take your apology, bets are off. but....at 13 you could have sat the boy down, talked to him and made it clear he is to be nowhere near the house unless somebody (adult) is home. you were 13, you have a 13 year old, you know what they are thinking with at that age. i'm sure he probably didn't see anything wrong, he had a house to sit alone, and watch t.v. that would make a kid feel pretty big. you also said he didn't destroy, or steal anything (which would have put you 100% in the right). i think if you would have talked to the boy, and he was, or is a good kid, you would have made your point. 6' @ 230 is plenty intimidating to a boy.

look, you have every right to be pissed, but this is your kids best friend, and they made a mistake.

i would invite everybody out for pizza, talk it over, make things clear, and make things right. do you have a friend from 1st grade? how important are your friends to you? now put yourself in your kids place.....

personally i would have been pissed, and probably took all the same actions, and made the same remarks...then i would sit down, cool off, change the pad code, and let the kid earn back your trust. talk to your wife, come to some type of agreement, and work it out.

if you find, he played with your guns, stole something or did some other unacceptable action, then stay stead fast in your decision, but if you've presented all info accurately, then maybe you might have been a tad harsh.....

if you've ever seen any of my threads, you'll see i'm not against a good fight, or smacking some smart ass kid. i don't have marine training, but i've always admired the way you guys handle yourselves, and the fact that your questioning your actions, and asking advice, shows you might be rethinking how you handled it. you'll come up with a good alternate plan, and put it to work.

good luck, be fair, take your son's feelings into account. our country is free, because of the brave. show your boy, what your made of......

Very well said!

Remember Rob. Jack and your son WILL be friends again. The Issue is between you and his father. Bills idea of going out for Pizza with Jacks family and yours is a great one.
I think Jacks father may have felt that you were attempting to discipline his son with your "he's not allowed" proclamation. You said he has "short guy syndrome". This would explain his reaction to your "punishment".
I would suggest you explain to them that you have lost Jacks trust and until you regain that trust, He may not come to your house unless you or your wife are home.

...there is a little journey life leads you on...called the high road.Its best to take it in siutations like this...
If nothing was missing,no harm or fowl... you over reacted

Yes you over reacted and it's understandable.
You said your son said he didn't tell his friend but could it be he was just afraid to admit he did ask him? I have had this happen with my own kids and once they deny something they are even more afraid to come clean.
Of course the kids dad got lippy with you. Even though you said nothing was missing you kind of gave him the impresion you were calling him a thief. Especially when you said you were going to call the sheriff.
You need to call the guy and set up a meeting and hash it out. With nothing messed with or missing I'd hate to see you sons long friendship be destroyed by a misunderstanding. Good friends, especially when they stick with you that long are rare!
I think they have both learned a hard lesson here that they will remember for a long time!

Small man syndrome? Sounds to me like maybe you might have an equal but opposite big man syndrome. Some of us call that "being a bully".

You were way out of line as soon as you failed to accept his statement that "he will take care of it". Its not your business to tell someone how to discipline their children.
:)

Hold the phone here. I don't consider myself a bully, in fact I'm pretty passive. I don't call people out and challenge them. However I will stand my ground. I learned a long time ago, it takes more of a man to walk away than it does to stand and fight. That being said, I would not be the one in the ambulance if it came to throwing down. My reference to my size was only an indicator that he is intimidated by me, which is true. His syndrome is the need to call me out to prove he can best me, I don't need to prove anything.

As far as disciplining his child. I stated my son would not be playing with him and that he is not welcome at my house. If that is punishment in lieu of his fathers I don't see it. Its MY house.

I'll be going out of town for the next two days. Wife and kids will be home. Bill's (1BLACKHARLEY) advice has prompted me to let it ride until I get back, let the situation settle, and have the conversation with the other family.
I have followed your stories in the past Bill, and trust your experience in matters of this kind.
The whole scenario pisses me off in that it even happened. In retrospect with the father I think I expected his response of "not my kid" "he would never do anything like that". I have seen it in the past with him in less severe circumstances. I would have been content to cut off the friendship for a month or so and the entering in my home, until his dad went ballistic when I cut off the friendship and property rights. I guess the calling of the sherriffs office was my way of saying your son screwed up and its no simple matter to be brushed under the rug.
Rob

As far as disciplining his child. I stated my son would not be playing with him and that he is not welcome at my house. If that is punishment in lieu of his fathers I don't see it. Its MY house.

Rob. I wasn't saying that you were. What I meant was, Jacks father COULD have perceived it that way.



I'll be going out of town for the next two days. Wife and kids will be home. Bill's advice has prompted me to let it ride until I get back, let the situation settle, and have the conversation with the other family.


Good choice!!!!!

And now you know why we don't have any kids. :boring:


Respectfully,
John R.

Chill.

Scott, that wasn't directed at you, charbilly made the statement I was refering to. Rob

Did you "swallow or spit"??

pdq67

Did you "swallow or spit"??

pdq67
Not relevant.
However, I did talk to a few neighbor parents with whom their kids hang out or play with Jack. Each had a different issue with Jack, which when brought up to Jacks Dad, resulted in the same response I got. Basically, I am done with Jacks family. He can do no wrong, his dad wants him to have anything he wants and he will be the popular kid. He has his parents stature, small and insecure. My son will not have anything to do with a kid who lies, and manipulates the neighborhood.
Case closed.
Rob

He was there to steal and got busted and everyone knows it.

He was there to steal and got busted and everyone knows it.

Most likely true. Either way you look at this, the kid was in the house without permission! What was he doing? Just a little strange if you ask me. You'll probably see him on perverted justice some day.

Not relevant.
However, I did talk to a few neighbor parents with whom their kids hang out or play with Jack. Each had a different issue with Jack, which when brought up to Jacks Dad, resulted in the same response I got. Basically, I am done with Jacks family. He can do no wrong, his dad wants him to have anything he wants and he will be the popular kid. He has his parents stature, small and insecure. My son will not have anything to do with a kid who lies, and manipulates the neighborhood.
Case closed.
Rob


You asked for opinions, so here is mine.

I think, while you are correct in being very upset about this issue, you made a bad situation worse by your actions. In fact your repeated use of the term "small man syndrome" leads me to believe that your perspective on the matter is still somewhat "heated." Anyone who has been around the block a few times knows that decisions made under such a mind-set usually makes things worse. And to bolster your argument, you are running to other neighbors to get their "take" and also to poison others regarding this family. That should stop.

I really like what BlackHarley has said about this issue..in fact I have found BlackHarley's advice about relationships, people and situations to be spot on in other threads on this site. I think he is some kind of guru:yes:....

anyways....I hope I didn't overstep here....just my opinion......

I dont think you over reacted. The kid should not have been in your house while you were not there, or without your permission.
I think that the kid was up to no good... Why else would he be sneaking around in there when he knew damn well that the family wouldnt be around? And as far as his father goes, screw that loser! The apple dont fall too far from the tree, and if his father was that quick to want to scrap it out with you over something that he knew his son should not have done, then thats confirmation enough that the son also has no respect and was up to no good.
My garage is attached to my house. If that was me, I would have went into the garage and inspected every inch of my Chevelle and my brothers Camaro ( which is parked in there as well ), with a magnifying glass. If I would have saw one scratch or anything out of place, I would have stormed over to that kids house and choked both of them!
I am sorry to say, but in this day and age it's shoot first, ask questions later!

My opinion is you over reacted a tad. Unfortunately Jack is learning this behavior from a family that isn't doing it's job raising their child. I agree with what Harley has said.

If this had happened to me I would have met with Jack and his dad/mom and let them know in no uncertain terms that the behavior Jack displayed was wrong and disappointing. Punishment would have been a month banishment from your home and then trust would have to be earned back. If anything like it happened again permanent banishment and loss of your sons friendship. Remember you've raised your son and most likely he's got good judgement on who to remain friends with. If it's a friendship not meant to be it will dissolve naturally.

You could possible be a mentor to this child and show him what family and friends really mean and that certain behavior is acceptable and certain behavior is unacceptable and to take responsibility for his actions. You could be teaching him things, it sounds like, that his father/mother aren't.

For the most part kids only emulate what they observe and learn and you can possibly have a positive impact on this child.

Just my opinion. Pete

Just my .02 cents worth, if the the kid was caught in your house knowing you were away, and then lied about your son telling him to, then you have a potential thief, but a for sure liar. He may be your kids best friend, but is that the kind of influence you really want for him. Your home is your castle, and anything he might have stolen, or "borrowed", pawned or whatever is your loss. Worse still, the liability factor would scare the crap outta me. If the kid won't accept responsibility and the dad won't, im on your side. If nothing else, maybe it will scare the kid straight.

Your anger might not have been so tempered if your son had not betrayed your trust first. Had the other son gotten into this lockbox it would have been with your sons help and the responsibilty for what happened afterwards would have to be shared. No need to rationalize it any further as it is now history.

I would suggest getting both sons and fathers together and discuss what went wrong. Pass the ass eatings out equally to give it credibility and leave the conversation with a clear understanding of what is accepted at your house. You may not want to back up from what has been said but your son deserves to see what kind of man his father is and to retain his friendship with the other son. Very likely it will lead to one of those defining moments.

Your anger might not have been so tempered if your son had not betrayed your trust first. Had the other son gotten into this lockbox it would have been with your sons help and the responsibilty for what happened afterwards would have to be shared. No need to rationalize it any further as it is now history.

I would suggest getting both sons and fathers together and discuss what went wrong. Pass the ass eatings out equally to give it credibility and leave the conversation with a clear understanding of what is accepted at your house. You may not want to back up from what has been said but your son deserves to see what kind of man his father is and to retain his friendship with the other son. Very likely it will lead to one of those defining moments.

Bill's (1BlackHarley) advice was full of wisdom, you'd do well to heed it. The face to face with all involved will probably get you the answers you need regarding Jack's motive for being in your home. You need to have a chat with your own son for his role in giving the code to Jack. As has already been pointed out, this is your opportunity to show your son, your neighbor and his son how to do it right and influence everyone involved to be better folks. I can't begin to tell you how many times, in retrospect, I regretted a heated discussion that caused harm to a valued relationship. Don't let this lay there.