OK, recently i had a convo with Art at ATI converters and he pretty much had me dead set on buying one of their tight 8"(~4200 stall) converter for my 'velle for the fall sale price of $750.
Been lurking around on a few other forums, and saw some stuff on Torco converters and decide to give them a call. I just got off the phone with Mickey at Torco, and said he'd set me up with a coverter i "would be guaranteed to be happy with" built to my specs for $300 :eek:

Now both guys took the time to hear everything about my combo and were very pleasant to talk to. I know ATI has a good reputation around here, and Ive also read about people loving the Torco converters. Should I pony up the extra $450 for the ATI piece? Or should i save myself the $$ because i will be changing this combo in 2 years?

Bryan;
If you want another option, call Danny at T.C. Performance right her in Connecticut. He is located in Willimantic. His phone # is 860-450-1336. He built me a converter for my Camaro that I am real happy with. He builds converters for several guys that run at Lebanon Valley. He isn't cheap but he is thorough and he builds what you need from the info you give him. Nothing is off the shelf. I liked having a local builder in case I had issues which luckily I didn't. He built me a 3000 stall that flashes around 3500 behind my 454 and it is a great converter even in traffic. He knows his stuff.

Just looking at your car specs you have the potential to run solid tens/even sqeek the nines on the nitrous. I have never seen a $300 converter go pass after pass in in a ten second car with out melt down, i've seen 300 converters melt in 4 passes in eleven second cars.

If it doesn't melt down it will likely slip so bad your ET will suffer. IMO you get what ya payed for. $300bucks for a mid 12 to 13sec may be ok!

I too recently had an in-depth conversation with Art at ATI about the recommendation and purchase of the proper converter for my application. He was very helpful.
And, the ATI 8" 4400 stall was delivered yesterday. ;) I plan on installing it this weekend.

When you guys get those "tight" 8" ATI converters I would like to sit in the seat next to you when you engage the transbrake and see where it really stalls at. IMHO the only way you'll see a stall speed that low with a performance 8" converter is behind a pretty mild engine. That being said, I'm very happy with my ATI 8" MRT converter. As has already been stated, you get what you pay for. My ATI converter has not given me a moments trouble and I've already logged over 100 passes on it, 20 this past weekend. Mine stalls to exactly 5,000 RPM behind my relatively mild 460ci engine.

When a converter barfs - it puts trash back into the tranny as well - now your $300 converter doesn't seem like such a good deal.

Just can't get the goods INSIDE the converter for $300 - no matter who puts it together.

IMO

MAT

Originally posted by kjett:
IMHO the only way you'll see a stall speed that low with a performance 8" converter is behind a pretty mild engine.That's exactly why I'm installing it this weekend. I'm fortunately in the position right now to run this converter behind my mild small block. I'll be testing it next weekend.
Then, I'll be able to compare later (soon) its performance behind the big block.
If it's not tight enough...it WILL go back to ATI for adjustments. They only had the specs on the 540 project and built the converter to that application. I was hesitant about going with the 8" but was convinced by Art to go ahead.

ATI - best comverter I have ever had. Great on the street graemlins/thumbsup.gif and fantastic on the strip graemlins/hurray.gif . It's 10in Treemaster set to stall at 3200 with my 454/TH400/3.73s.

By the way, this is my daily driver :eek: , thats how nice this converter is!!! graemlins/thumbsup.gif


Kerry

Bryan,there was a post over at www.dragraceresults.com (http://www.dragraceresults.com) about Torco convertors..good info..make your own judgement.

i have a torco(4500) in my 3500lb street car and have ran a best of 10.76@124 and i drive the **** out of it! mickey is the man!!

my street toy (http://www.geocities.com/hgrove@sbcglobal.net/CAR.html)

Thank you all for your replys. Im leaning towards the ATI, mostly because as some of you said, i cant see a $300 being that great, even though Mickey at Torco seems like a great guy and many people like his stuff.

If its one thing ive learned by building this car its to do things right the first time, and im not sure i want to take a chance with my tranny, since it will be being completely rebuilt shortly with turbo spliines, transbrake, the whole 9.

Ken, regarding the stall, were you commenting on my setup or Bills? Art at ATI said with my combo, and the 8"MRT that he suggested, it would stall in the 4200-4400 area on the brake, and will probably flash to ~5000 if i launch on the juice.

Phel69 (sorry, dont know your real name), Ill give Danny a call on thursday to see what he says. I agree that a local guy would be nice to have just in case. Thanks for that info smile.gif

If not, ill just stick with the ATI like I planned in the first place. :D

I have an 8" ATI Treemaster (non-MRT). If you don't run a t-brake and don't use nitrous, then you don't need the MRT option. You can use the standard Treemaster and save some $$$. This is a popular converter for the NHRA stock eliminator ranks too.

I bought mine through Charlie at ATI and he was incredibly helpful.

Torco? never used them, never heard of them till recently. I can't prove it, but someone mentioned that they are now what used to be GER?

BTW, that ATI converter is the single best piece I ever put in my car...made the car deadly consistent and was the one piece resposible for taking my car from a low 11 second ride to a mid/high 10 second ride.

Ken, regarding the stall, were you commenting on my setup or Bills? Art at ATI said with my combo, and the 8"MRT that he suggested, it would stall in the 4200-4400 area on the brake, and will probably flash to ~5000 if i launch on the juice.[/QB]I guess the point I was trying to make was not to get lured in by the promise of a "tight 8" converter." I don't believe there is such a thing. If you're really planning on logging many street miles I would personally look at a 9"-10" converter. Sure, my car will start moving if I let off the brake, but to drive it around in traffic (and I have, sometimes 2 hours in one direction) you find that the engine spends a lot of time above 3,000 rpms (accelerating away from lights, small inclines, etc...). I love my ATI converter and I can't imagine one that would work any better for the strip.

Ken, I definately appreciate your input, especially since you are using the product in question smile.gif
I kinda figured "tight" on an 8" converter is kinda iffy, but i told Art that there would be some street miles put on the car, such as fri. and sat. cruise nights, and maybe the occasional trip to check up on Chris (mr 4 speed) :D
I also made clear that 1/4 times were more important than street manners, so i guess if it stalls a bit high, ill have to deal with it. As lond as this little mouse makes 10s in '04, ill be happy smile.gif

yeah i NEVER have had a problem with my torco custom made for me and stalls right at 4500 just like he said on my t-brake and i even use nitrous on top of that !!!!!
96 passes this year and NO heat or slip problems and look at my sig my 60ft times are for some of the ati users to be jealous of! i only spent $189 for mine 2 years ago A++++
Saved me money and he is a real nice guy also
bryan

ive got an ati 8" in mine. to tell you the truth i couldnt begine to tell you what it flashes to. ive tried the slow roll in third gear stomp deal, but the tach is moving so fast i cant really tell. also i thought i might have a heat issue with the 8". i run a large cooler and a gauge and i cant get the gauge to move. i thought is was broke so i boiled water and put the sender in it. cam right up to 210. it appears they dont run as hot as they say Dave

Originally posted by 1bad67:
Just looking at your car specs you have the potential to run solid tens/even sqeek the nines on the nitrous. I have never seen a $300 converter go pass after pass in in a ten second car with out melt down, i've seen 300 converters melt in 4 passes in eleven second cars.

If it doesn't melt down it will likely slip so bad your ET will suffer. IMO you get what ya payed for. $300bucks for a mid 12 to 13sec may be ok! Uh Oh, I just ordered a TCI 2600-2800rpm stall converter, I think 10" , through the company thats building my engine. When combo is all setup im expecting mid-low 11's. Will this be a problem. I went with a lower stall after getting opinions from lots of people online, and the shop thats building my engine, and the summit tech line. Since my car is a daily driver as well I chose the lower stall. Is this going to hurt me because I do plan on racing often.

Originally posted by bryan thomas:
look at my sig my 60ft times are for some of the ati users to be jealous of!
bryan Bryan,

I'm glad you're happy with your converter, sounds like a great price/value. Having said that, don't confuse tire spin with converter performance. My car isn't hooking hard yet as you can tell from the ET/MPH. A 3,700lb car running 124-125mph should be running middle 10s. I'm still trying to sort out the suspension. Are you launching on a brake? Spraying off the line? You also don't mention what rear gear/1st gear you're running. My car is footbraked. Just to be clear, I'm not saying my converter is better than yours, only providing feedback on my experience with ATI. I have nothing else to use as a comparison as my car was a stick before.

P.S. Look for me to be posting some 1.4x 60' times in the next 3 weeks ;)

Bryan,

I purchased a 3000, 10" from torco...It cost me my transmission(th700r4 from BTO). And I only use it on the street. Also I am breaking in the engine, so I'm babying it for the first 500 miles(no WOT yet). This was after they had sent me the wrong splines(27 instead of 30)the first time.
I'm not trying to trash them, but you asked for experiences. I'm currently running a 10" 3000 ATI, and sofar I'm happy.

It took me a long time to purchase a converter. I went to the track all summer, and found many guys running a Torco unit.

I just ordered my 9.5" 3800 stall unit two days ago. It's an all-billet converter, fully welded, and uses Torrington bearings instead of thrust washers. I'm not worried about it.

Art Carr now owns Torco. Basically, when you have ATI converters made by a HUGE converter company (i.e. Torco), with mass production, the $300 price tag is the result. I always hear "You get what you pay for", which we know isn't always true.

heres some more advice. Ask the different torque convertor manufactures why there is such a big difference in cost.

Costs added to part,
advertising, manufacturing techniques, etc

some companies have lots of overhead due to some of the above. some don't sometimes the ones that dont have alot of overheard will sell for a reduced price.

Also sometimes you are paying for the name and somenames are expensive.

No matter who you buy from there are always going to be some bad parts made. NO ONE can make 100 percent of their componets flawless.

Todd

Todd makes a good point. I've heard of Coan, ATI, Torco, and other converters failing...neither seem to fail more than each other. I've heard of B&M and TCI units failing more frequently, but I believe there are many more of those converters out there than the higher end unit.

My opinion is this: Whether you buy from ATI, Torco, Coan, or any other high-end manufacurer, I believe you are buying a better performing and better quality converter than the off-the-shelf brands.

hey ken i do launch off the brake at 4500 rpm and without nitrous i can cut 1.59s pretty consistantly while only running 12.1s smile.gif
when i spray it i bring the motor up to 4500 on the brake like normal and on the second yellow on the tree i spray it the rpms jump to 4800 or so and i leave on the spray and usually run 1.52-3 range of 60s and yes i like ati and all the others but some people have the old mentality of you get what you pay for,, well i like the fact i only payed half of what i was goin to pay for. o good luck with the car i am done for this year :( to cold here in ohio
bryan

As Matt said Art Carr now ownes Torco. In fact they are housed in the same building in Abilene, Texas. They have two different store fronts but when you go inside its all open. My brother has a Torco which was special built for his 3900 lb. Chevy pickup. He runs 8:20's in the 1/8th mileand h is runing a small spray on it. This is his second season on his ride and no problems. I had Torco build me a stall converter for my '70 Chevelle, I gave them all my specs and they built one that would stall at a loose 4500 rpm. I havent run mine yet I have to build my rearend for the car yet. I paid $230 for my converter. As long as you buy from a reputable company, ATI, Coan, Neals Chance, Art Carr or Torco,you should be fine. graemlins/hurray.gif

Chris

I have a question.............if Art Carr has his own converter company and is selling quality converters, why would he buy a smaller company and sell a lower priced product? Seems like he would be cutting his own market share competing against himself.

Just asking as I guess I don't see the logic there..............

Originally posted by 10secBu:
Torco? never used them, never heard of them till recently. I can't prove it, but someone mentioned that they are now what used to be GER?
They are not the same company.
We have a 9.5" 3150 Torco in our 78 camaro, so far it drives nice and when we finish the roll bar we`ll see how the thing 60 ft`s with slicks.

The one and only pass we were allowed gave us a spinning 1.81 but the 119 MPH was impressive IMO.

Also put a Torco in a 95 Z-28 with a small nitrous kit on it and the owner has been raving about it for some months now.
The Torco`s where about $190-200 at the door!

We also use an ATI at nearly $1000! and a PTC @$370 all three brands are running good so far.

There are some who just can`t justify a $800-1000 converter no matter how good.

I don`t think Art Carr has anything to do with Torco, I believe that there`s been some "slight of hands" trickery going on somewhere with some intentional riding on the Art Carr name.
Alittle confusing...

The only reason why I know Art Carr owns Torco is b/c:
1. I called the tech line and got an Art Carr rep,
2. The rep told me Art Carr owns Torco.

To clear up any confusion...

Torco converters sound to me kind of like a real nice $59 a night hotel that noone will stay at because of the low price !!!

I've heard their prices are low because they make their own internals rather than buy from elsewhere and mark up.