ZZ572... will it fit or not? [Archive] - Chevelle Tech

: ZZ572... will it fit or not?


TooLgasm
Aug 3rd, 08, 8:05 PM
Hello,
I have a 69 Chevelle with a stock FLAT hood. ZZ572 620 Deluxe, will this monster fit or not?

Thanks!

Tom Mobley
Aug 3rd, 08, 10:00 PM
the oil pan is not close to fitting and you'll need a cowl hood, maybe a 4" cowl. I think it has a tall block and raised exhaust port heads, you'll be buying a set of $1000 Lemons or Kooks headers too.

In other words, it doesn't fit very good.

Busted Knuckles
Aug 3rd, 08, 11:20 PM
Look at a crate 540 or 555 with a short deck, IMHO. It'll be a much easier fit.

TooLgasm
Aug 4th, 08, 9:59 AM
thanks for the replies... guess 572 is out. I am fairly bent on keeping my stock hood. I will definitely look into a 540 though. I am considering this...

http://www.ultrastreet.net/engines/540_classic.asp

Not sure of the quality but looks like a good deal, more power for a lot less $.

rj67bu
Aug 4th, 08, 10:09 AM
I would definitely spend a little extra and get the carb and distributer from the company. it would save a lot of time and frustration trying to do it your self, not that you can't

DZAUTO
Aug 4th, 08, 11:05 AM
Brian,
The 572 is a tall deck engine. So, basically, you will be looking at the same installation issues that you would have to deal with for a tall deck 427+ dirivative truck engine. The major differences between the 572 and 427 tall deck truck engines will be the difference in generations (Mk4 vs MK6).
If you are dead set on retaining the stock, flat hood, the fit will be REAL close and will require very careful selection of top end parts.

Oh ya, this is probably going to require an upgrade to the tranny and rear also! :D

Tom Mobley
Aug 4th, 08, 1:02 PM
That company is part of Scott Shafiroff Racing Engines, a well respected nationally known name. Are you anywhere near Bohemia, NY? If warranty issues crop up shipping is an issue.

TooLgasm
Aug 4th, 08, 9:16 PM
That company is part of Scott Shafiroff Racing Engines, a well respected nationally known name. Are you anywhere near Bohemia, NY? If warranty issues crop up shipping is an issue.

You make great point Tom, I'm actually in Tampa, however I would consider dealing with a Bohemia, NY co as my main concern is reputation and quality.

Any comparable builders in the Tampa area? I have not even found a shop to dyno-tune my current carburated BB yet. Plenty of tuners... none of them seem to dabble in dinasaur technology though :mad:

TooLgasm
Aug 4th, 08, 9:21 PM
Brian,
The 572 is a tall deck engine. So, basically, you will be looking at the same installation issues that you would have to deal with for a tall deck 427+ dirivative truck engine. The major differences between the 572 and 427 tall deck truck engines will be the difference in generations (Mk4 vs MK6).
If you are dead set on retaining the stock, flat hood, the fit will be REAL close and will require very careful selection of top end parts.

Oh ya, this is probably going to require an upgrade to the tranny and rear also! :D

Thanks Tom. I do believe I am leaning toward a 540 for the hood clearance/header fitment issues(I have a decent set of hooker super comps). The car has a Coan built th400 and 9" with mosers so I hope I'm set there.

SWHEATON
Aug 5th, 08, 8:17 AM
BRIAN,HERE YA GO,475CID /620HP FOR A LOT LESS $ ($4,895) FROM A PROVEN GOOD ENGINE BUILDER THAT HELPS US OUT HERE T/CHEVELLE.

MARK the builder is the real deal,a few t/c members have bought his motor and raved about the perf & customer service,cant go wrong IMHO.

SEARCH EBAY ITEM 280250694126 TO SEE THE ENGINE I AM REFFERING TO.

I have personally spoken to Mark and he is the real deal.

Scott

harrod
Aug 5th, 08, 8:38 AM
Unless your trying for the "sleeper look" (which fools no one from a performance perspective its only a look) I'd go with the engine you really want and use the newer lower 70s style cowl hood. The GM Crate motor pound for pound is more expensive but you know what you get. Regardless I feel you are going to run into hood clearance/air flow issues with any big-block if you run any after market heads and/or a taller intake. The more 'radical' the engine the more you'll have to ensure it gets air to match is fuel and overall appetite - - so if you plan to run a standard carb system you'll starve the engine with a drop base air-cleaner on a stock hood. You may have to use a snorkle like affair to get good air flow.

Have you considered a LS-X engine, you'll move to a small block and with fuel injection you'll eliminate the hood clearance issues and for the most part have good HP/TQ and better mph. I'm more of a fan of the big-block and natural asperation - with a flat stock hood though I think you'll run into issues no matter what.

oman
Aug 5th, 08, 8:58 AM
a look) The GM Crate motor pound for pound is more expensive but you know what you get.

WRONG! You have no more idea what you get with the GM crate than with any other builder. It once was the case that you could depend on GM crate stuff. NOT NOW.

Look at all the 502 motors with oil consumption issues. Personal experience here...I bought a 454 LS-6 from GM some years ago and there was a rod bearing cap installed BACKWARDS. In case you dont know you have to POUND THE FREAKIN CAP ON TO GET IT ON BACKWARDS. I also bought a 4 Bolt 350 block (non Bowtie) from GM. I simply refused to take possession of one because the casting was so bad along one area above the pan rail. The head mechanic said "Yup send it back and get this guy another block...never seen one THAT BAD" was his quote to the parts manager. If that does not indicate that "they had seen this problem before" I don't know what it meant.. The second one they sent was better BUT the cooling jackets were filled with casing core sand. I had to remove ALL the freeze plugs and fish the stuff out. BTW casting core sand is not really sand in consistancy..it is more like a charcoal brickette.

Back in the old days several of my friends bought GM crate motors...427's and 454's and I purchased an L-79 Vette motor 350HP 327. All were fine..ran right outta the crate, no oil issues, no core sand, no self destruction because of rod caps pounded on backwards. The stuff that ran right was made along time ago, was NOT from Mexico and was sold by a GM that gave a damn about their reputation. That was then and this is now.

Forget the "at least ya know what ya get"! Todays GM is just as disposable economy oriented as anyone else. If they sell 1000 engines and there are 25 or 30 that are JUNK they don't care. The customer cares especially if he has to face the music that results from R&Ring a motor or has to be bedeveled by oil consumption or cannot figure why he has a motor that overheats (about those core sand plugged waterjackets there Clyde) or whatever other maladies come with the junk GM pukes out.

GM just cheerfully refunds your money or sends ya another one. That is FAR FAR cheaper for GM than it is to try to get it right on every engine. Cheaper is the GM mantra for today. Hecho in Mexico should be right on the GM mark of Excellence...whoops GM mark of inferiority.

harrod
Aug 5th, 08, 9:06 AM
WRONG! My wife says the same thing daily ....

I'm pleased to drive such passion from you on the subject and I'm sure there is a GM Crate vs. the world thread but my real point was that a big-block from whomever will likely cause fit issues with a stock malibu hood. Not that it 100% for sure will but I feel it will.

Perhaps I'm just not racing every weekend and its a matter of personal experience. You've been exposed to a negative experience with GM Performance Crate motors and clearly believe they no longer have the end customer in mind. I've been exposed to negative experience with 5 different builders over my years. Granted there is only one GM and there are thousands of builders so perhaps I just haven't tapped the right source and I've been lucky to have only dealt with positive situations with GM motors (2002 on) - based on what you state its only a matter of time before I or a friend will have major issues. I know they sell a lot of motors so issues are bound to pop up - even the most notable engine builders have people that feel they have been wronged.

oman
Aug 5th, 08, 9:23 AM
Perhaps I'm just not racing every weekend and its a matter of personal experience. You've been exposed to a negative experience with GM Performance Crate motors. I've been exposed to negative experience with 5 different builders over my years. Granted there is only one GM and there are thousands of builders so perhaps I just haven't tapped the right source and I've been lucky to have only delt with postivie situations with GM motors - based on what you state its only a matter of time. I'm pleased to drive such passion from you on the subject and I'm sure there is a GM Crate vs. the world thread but my real point was that a big-block from whomever will likely cause fit issues with a stock malibu hood. Not that it 100% for sure will but I feel it will.

You are mixing apples and oranges there Harrod. I was not racing any of the engines that I bought. All were for street use. I don't understand you comment about racing in the context of the quality or fit of the parts.

As to negative experiences with engne builders over the years, my point exactly..negative experiences with GM over the years is no different than negative experiences with engine builders. Possibly builders are cheaper possibly not but the bad taste left by shoddy work from a builder or GM is still really bad and really lingering.

As to the fit issue. I agree that a tall deck is a tall deck is a tall deck. If it is an engine builder tall deck or a GM crate tall deck it is a tall deck. The fit will not be any different. Personally I think the tall deck motors are a great idea. Everyone moans and groans about the installs but if you really look at it the issues are all related to headers and hitting the hood and the oil pan Oil pan issues can come into play but that is only a matter of getting the correct pan for the chassis in question.

I had a buddy who fooled with tall deck motors in street cars. He fabbed his own headers eliminating that exhaust problem or he used stock manifolds with custom made / bent engine pipes from another buddy who owned a Midas shop. All the crying about exhaust pipe issues and fit with a tall deck on the street always makes me sorta smile after seeing what my friend routinely built. Hood clearance can be an issue to be sure and with the 572 that could be a real PIA if you are hell bent on a stock hood. as to intake manifolds he often used Gm manifolds with the afternarket spacers from companies like Brodix.

My friend built some tall deck powered cars with the flat / low rise 454 LS6 cowl induction intake manifold and cleared some stock hoods W/O issue. In point of fact he built some sleeper motors that you could look right at inside the car, up close and personal, and unless you really knew where to look for the signature tall deck differences you could not tell. One Chevelle in particular slipped past a tech guy at the strip once. Not to say the tech guy was the sharpest knife in the drawer, might be he was blind or hung over I dunno. That motor was soo sooo stock looking from the outside... it was a beautiful piece. My buddy made no attempt to pass the motor off as a low deck engine to run in a stock class. All he wanted to do was test the car at the strip. He did not care what class he landed in and the tech guy almost let the darn thing in as a stock BBC low deck.

spdracer256
Aug 5th, 08, 10:35 AM
When I first came to the forum, I, too, believed in crate motors and I even had bought 2 from GM. I also had bought junk from a local builder and had built several motors on my own with varying degrees of sucess and satisfaction. What the forum members are trying to suggest to you is to check into one of the several proffessional and knowledgable builders that frequent this site. As far as bang for the buck goes, these guys are second to none AND they couple that with friendly, personable service throughout the entire engine building/buying/installation process. In addition to all this, you can always reach them here for follow up questions and advice after the buy. Just keep your options open. I know my next BBC will come from one of the builders on this site. I've seen the service and knowledge poured out in their posts to help those of us that haven't even bought anything from them. Check into Vortecpro or Wolfplace- they'll steer you in the right direction.

harrod
Aug 5th, 08, 11:18 AM
You are mixing apples and oranges there Harrod. racing

My comments about racing has NO relation to you and certainly wasn't a comparison. It is "perhaps" one contributing reason I have yet to have experienced an issue. I know - one can fail right out of the box and some issues are only a matter of time. Often (not always) the harder you work an engine the quicker you find the issue.

GM has clearly done you wrong - I beleive you. It does appear that we may share the opinion that with a stock malibu hood TooLgasm may have adjustments no matter what big-block direction he goes. Using this forum to find a reputable builder is a good idea (narrows the thousands out there to a few)

TooLgasm
Aug 5th, 08, 1:11 PM
Thanks for all the input guys. Ok, so looks like I will be ruling out all tall decks. I am leaning toward a crate 540... currently fishing around for a reputable builder in the Tampa area.

TooLgasm
Aug 5th, 08, 1:14 PM
BRIAN,HERE YA GO,475CID /620HP FOR A LOT LESS $ ($4,895) FROM A PROVEN GOOD ENGINE BUILDER THAT HELPS US OUT HERE T/CHEVELLE.

MARK the builder is the real deal,a few t/c members have bought his motor and raved about the perf & customer service,cant go wrong IMHO.

SEARCH EBAY ITEM 280250694126 TO SEE THE ENGINE I AM REFFERING TO.

I have personally spoken to Mark and he is the real deal.

Scott

Thanks Scott. That is a very nice deal... I will contact Mark, see if he does any alum head setups.

Brian

harrod
Aug 5th, 08, 1:27 PM
Thanks Scott. That is a very nice deal... I will contact Mark, see if he does any alum head setups.

Brian

Here's one of Marks engines in a 69 Chevelle. It has one of the best HP/TQ curves I have ever seen.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227000

SWHEATON
Aug 5th, 08, 2:04 PM
BRIAN,NP,please tell Mark i rec you to him.

Scott

oman
Aug 5th, 08, 4:38 PM
My comments about racing has NO relation to you and certainly wasn't a comparison. It is "perhaps" one contributing reason I have yet to have experienced an issue. I know - one can fail right out of the box and some issues are only a matter of time. Often (not always) the harder you work an engine the quicker you find the issue.

GM has clearly done you wrong - I beleive you. It does appear that we may share the opinion that with a stock malibu hood TooLgasm may have adjustments no matter what big-block direction he goes. Using this forum to find a reputable builder is a good idea (narrows the thousands out there to a few)

I am not sure about how much adjustment is needed with a short deck motor and a standard Chevelle Malibu hood. I loaded a short deck 454 into a 72 Monte Carlo and used a high rise aluminum Chevy manifold (same as used on the 425 Hp 427 motors) and it worked great. Also I later put a 3x2 intake from a 67 Vette in the car and again no clearance issues. In both cases I ran GM air filters and air filter elements. Now for those who are gonna speak up about a Monte Carlo versus a Chevelle and all the differences there in remember the cowl and the frame are more or less the same. Yes the Monte Carlo frame is longer up front but the position of the motor relative to the cowl and the under side of the hood is the same.

No issue was taken with the statement about racing. I am sorry if your reading of my response made you think I was put off with your original comment about racing. I was not responding that I though you had impled that I had been racing. Yes racing will find the flaws sooner no doubt. That said the flaws I saw in the engine and block I bought were right there sorta "in my face" before I even fired the motors up. It is funny how a few bad experiences will sour a customer.

Not that this has anything to do with the questions at hand but FWIW. We bought a Nova in 1977 for my wife and I admit it was a long time ago but the car was JUNK. From the paint to the TH250 transmission it was just a POS. I had the car for a long time but the new car "feeling" wore off really FAST. At about 30K miles a trans shop told me that the TH250 in the Nova was disposable after about 45K miles. When the trans quit @ about 50K I rotated in a TH 350 with 65k already on the trans. I pulled the trans from a 1971 Chevy and it ran perfectly in the car until the car had 175K miles. Go figure I had a 77 Nova with 50K miles running a transmission form a 71 Impala! The factory paint was so bad even after the warrantee dealer repair that I finally had the car stripped and repainted at my expense. That was the last GM car ever for this household. Yup they did me wrong and I REALLY wish it were different. I loved the GM A-Body cars of the late 60's and the big Impala 409 cars and Pontiac 421 cars. Olds 442 and all the rest. Somewhere in the mid 70's it seems that GM just said "To Hell with Quality"

People think I am nuts when I say take everything apart, even a new GM crate motor. It is sad that this has to be, IMHO, standard procedure now. I think all this careless work is going to come home to roost and it appears for me at least it already has as far as GM products They might be building better cars now...well trucks that is, but for better or worse trucks are not what people are buying.

pdq67
Aug 5th, 08, 6:47 PM
Heck, buy a 4.56" b x 4.375" s = 571.6", 9.8" tall deck height BB engine and go!!

Bore it all the way out to 4.625" and it becomes a 588" engine!!

pdq67

jrmacm
Oct 7th, 08, 8:09 PM
It will fit, I have the same setup in my 69 rag top, no problem

TooLgasm
Oct 8th, 08, 12:44 AM
It will fit, I have the same setup in my 69 rag top, no problem

That is good news... I still have not pulled the trigger. Do you have any under hood pics?

BTW, that is a very sweet ride.

Brian