To all, I have a 70 SS LS5 454 Chevelle w/ a M22 4-speed 3.73 rear all stock with the exception for headers and a edelbrock 750cfm carb. The problem is I have this pain in the but guy with a 455 GS convertable that keeps breaking my balls and I want to blow his doors off BAD!! Are there any quick preformance tips you guys can give me without really going nuts that will give me an edge his car has some work done to it but not much, the timing is set to stock (6 BTDC) can I advance it to gain some speed? Any input you guys have will be greatly appreciate it!

Try setting the timing at 16º. You'll notice the difference.

Is this going to be on the street? If so, make sure you know where you stand. Try to find out if the other guy's car hooks up. If you can come off the line hard, great - but if traction will pose a problem (for you ;) ), get him to go from a roll. Try and be the one who sets the conditions. Above all, do not underestimate the GS. If the guy knows what he's doing...

Just remember that any advantage you may have can (and will?) be used against you. If he loses cause you have better tires...

If this guy has no traction once rolling, don't race him. If it's a POS, don't race him. And if he's dumb as a brick... don't race him. Better safe than sorry.

Take it to the track-IMO 125 powershot nos should get ya movin-IMO spray 2nd gear up!

Nitrous would be the cheapest way to make a good gain in HP. other than N20, tires will probably make the biggest difference. I was able to go from 13.3 all the way down 12.6 by going from a street tire to an ET street. .8 ET reduction from a tire change, tough to beat that.

On the street, reaction time can be a big factor too. The human eye can only detect a difference of about .4 of a second. That's .4 you can leave before him and no one will be able to tell the difference.

Last thing is weight. A freind of mine has a Mustang that runs 12.20's with only 365 RWHP. The reason is because of weight. Take out everything you can. Spare tire, jack, speaker boxes, 1/4 tank of gas, etc... Lighten your car as much as possible to maximize what power you have. The less junk the engine has to pull down the road, the faster you'll go. You might also try to get him to have a passenger, and you go solo. In my experience, a 150 lb. passenger is worth a car length or so in a street race. Good luck!

Thanks for all your help!!

Do youself a favor, ingore it. If you really want to race the guy, set it up to go to a track for a day. Do a couple of grudge runs for the heck of it. Win or lose, have some fun. Playing around on the street through a couple of gears is fun, but running flat out 0 - 100+ on the street is not smart.

Just the way I see it.

If you're looking for quick and cheap, I'd go with Pat and advance your timing. Since you did say it's completely stock, minus carb and headers, I'm assuming you have the stock air horn/filter cover. I say get rid of that and install a K&N open element air filter. If you have the extra cash and don't mind using it, upgrade your exhaust system...dual 2 1/2" pipes along with an X-pipe and mufflers of your choice. If you get a little more hungry, then you can always go with an Edelbrock Air Gap intake...that'll help out a lot! Good luck and have fun.

Didnt those 455 GS cars run right up there w/ the ls6 Chevelles? Maybe you should avoid him :confused: . Get all the dead weight off the car...spare , jack etc. Ive heard 100lbs = .10 sec in the quarter
Good luck!

A good friend of mine has a well tuned stage 1, pretty much stock bottom end, with a mild cam(aprox .500 lift) he runs 12.20's with it all day long.. I don't know why, but those things run pretty quick..

buick engines make gobs of torque. ! beware !

Well, you could always swap out the 454 for a Buick 455 graemlins/hurray.gif

I'm guessing the GS is not a Stage One so that's in your favor. Regular 455's aren't near as strong. Also it's a convertible, which adds about 100 lb of weight. But if your Chevelle has air cond, that adds about 100 lb so that would even it up again. Best cheap and easy things to do are: get rid of excess weight like others mentioned, if your dist hasn't been recurved from stock get it done and have 38 deg of total timing (without vacuum advance), put a set of new spark plugs in it, make sure you're getting wide open throttle when the pedal is down, put a new air filter on it, and (a biggie) practice your driving like others mentioned.

If he is a real ass and you just want to kill him just put a bottle in it and go. If he is a friend and you just want to have a little fun race, and if you loose you can start doing some stuff to the car.

Most of those Buicks had vapor locking problems in hot weather with their Quadrajet carburetors but still run pretty good. However the LS-5 chevelles should handle most non Stage 1 cars, especially convertibles. A better intake would help if you can get the hood clearance to put it in. Twelve second buicks are rare and generally require a lot of work to get them there. I've had two Stage One G.S. cars and niether one will touch my 375 H.P. Chevelle. P.S. Definately take it to the strip to race.

to beat a buick you have to have a buick.
its the driver most of the time and not the car.
if you ewant to beat him spend the money and get the buick, you'll be happy with it.
learning to drive it is the other challange you will have.
but after your in the buick you will know why
my 2 cents

I have seen many a stock looking Buick run low twelve second times. DONT underestimate them. a bone stock 70 GS 455 will run low 13 second ET's on street tires. recurve the distributor and rejet the Carb and your into the high twelves. thats without even removing a valve cover. your best bet is to race from a dead stop because the Buick will be severely traction limited. if you hear a funny whine coming from the Buick dont be alarmed. that will just be his A/C. they usually like to race with the A/C on for comfort

Bob Gibbs
1969 300 deluxe 2 door
1965 Gransport post
1966 Skylark
1967 GS400

Well said Bob! The best thing about a Buick, I have to agree, is that you can have it fully optioned and run solid numbers all day at the drag strip. Gotta love buicks!

I always leave my A/C on when racing a Chevelle. It gives them a fighting chance. tongue.gif

Lol. I think most people who own buicks leave their A/C running while racing alot of opponents. That's just one of the advantages of buick, they maintain power while using A/C and all the other junk. And what surprises alot of people when racing buicks, they're heavy, they have alot of power options, and they don't have a chance, and that's how alot of people lose races to them, you just can't underestimate the brute power of a BBB! Love the torque, I could really care less about the Horsepower.

-MR. Buick graemlins/thumbsup.gif

**INTRUDER ALERT** Just got word from my Buick buddy, that this thread is causing quite a shake up on the Buick site.. LOL graemlins/waving.gif Whats up Hopson....

Scott

Is that GS the Stage 1 That lurks around the Island? I have seen a pair (and the two I have seen travel in packs) one black (blue maybe) and the other yellow. Both sounded pretty hot, but I do not know what they had. The convertable adds more weight, so if he doesn't have the HP to overcome that weight, it gives you an advantage. Where are you on the Island? NC or SC? You ever been to K-Mart on Tues during the summer?

IMO, Chevelles are pretty traction limited also. If its from a dead stop, don't try to get off the line quick, but don't bog it at the same time. There is a fine line between traction and smoke. Can you get a ahold of a set of slicks? That may help a lot,
Let me know how it turns out,

that this thread is causing quite a shake up on the Buick site.. LOL

Sure is. We especially like the "Just NOS it" advice.

Like it'll help. :D

Good Luck

GK graemlins/beers.gif

Wow, us buick guys are enjoying it! :D We intruders are from another pack smile.gif Cool thread, interesting topic. graemlins/thumbsup.gif There's a few long-island buicks...

-MR. Buick

My 71 GS 455 lurks around the Long Island area. We're curious about who's Buick you guys are refering to.

Originally posted by Mr. Tri-shield:
My 71 GS 455 lurks around the Long Island area. We're curious about who's Buick you guys are refering to. If I remember correctly there were two 70(?) Buick GS's with 455's and Stage 1 fender emblems. They would occasionally come up to K-Mart on Tuesday nights. I think that one is yellow, and on is a dark color, maybe blue or black. Sounded good. Well, good for a Buick tongue.gif :D
Chris

Hey Guys:

Don't take any of this ribbin' seriously. It was all in good fun. We GM guys have to stick together. It's those loser Mopar and Ford guys we hate. ;) tongue.gif :D

Oh BTW; Can a Chevelle do this? graemlins/hurray.gif

http://users.ntplx.net/~gkitty/norwalktwisted.jpg

Got Torgue? :D

Us full size guys get no respct :D

http://www.buickpartsdirectory.com/centurion/centurion_tube002.jpg


Cool site, BTW graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Yeah this is a cool site...that is for a chevy site! :D Just kidding. I have respect for chevy and the chevelle and all GM cars for that matter, like GK said, us GM guys gotta stick together, it's just those ford guys and mopars we have to watch out for.(although there is a few nice mopars and sad to say some pretty nice fords) Nice BB and site by the way graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Ya, it's all in fun.. Adam, that is the sickest looking drop top I have ever seen.. WAY COOL graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Adam,

Love that Centurion. My father had a Wildcat ('68 maybe?) Had the 430CI motor. Never got to drive it, traded it for an Electra 225 right about when I started driving (definitely wasn't allowed near the 225). I would love to get one of those one day.

Thanks! They're all over the place for sale..

Grab one up and enjoy driving it! They've got some monster power with the big blocks.

Can I play too??!!!!!!!!

a friend here has a pretty mild '68 GS with a 455 that runs 7.70's all night long at our 1/8th mile track.

There are a couple of hot street buicks around here. One is a stock looking 70 GS runs about 12.00, another is a pretty stock looking 69 GS with small draglights awesome car almost in the 9's, all Buick power!

Buicks are very, very COOL!

Buicks are cool! To me its not the kind of car thats the problem, but the fact that the guy is rubbing his nose in the defeat. Its kind of like the big block vs small block or the single plane vs dual plane discussions i've seen here. Its more of a personel preference thing. Buicks and Chevelles can both run well and do! I like chevelles because my family drove chevys (and my first car was a chevelle), not because they are better than any other car. Its good to have other makes here as the more to share with the smarter one can be.

The point that us Chevelle guys have the last laugh is when we go looking for parts :D Do you want it chrome or painted?? :D As apposed to when you ask for the Buick part, you get one of these :eek: Or one of these :confused: LOL

tongue.gif Scott

Uncork the headers, Take off your air cleaner, advance your timing, put on smaller diameter rear tires, inflate your fronts to 50 psi, unload your truck & glove box, drain your tank, go to the bathroom, if that doesn't work cheat

The point that us Chevelle guys have the last laugh is when we go looking for parts Isn't that the truth. Until just recently, there were no manifolds available for the BBB from a major manufacturer, only from small vendors (TA Perf.) Not long ago, Edelbrock reintroduced their 35+ year old design manifold. Same for aluminum heads, they didn't exist until a couple years ago. Bulldog just a few months ago stepped up and developed some heads.
And don't try to buy repro body parts. Repop taillights are over $200. Grilles aren't even available, NOS ones go for $800+ on ebay. Fortunately, some Chevelle parts will interchange, but not many. You guys don't know how good you got it made.

i got curious

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/72278/index5.html

buick has some interesting differences from chevy

Originally posted by hamrdown:
Didnt those 455 GS cars run right up there w/ the ls6 Chevelles? Maybe you should avoid him :confused: Well, read this article

After a V10 Viper, 2 Buicks, one of them a little 6 banger, wiped the LS6 Chevelle :D :D :D

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/collector_cars/1997/8/showdown_muscle_cars/index.phtml

I like Chevelles, but I love Buicks !!!

Ran my buddy in his 71 GS on the highway from 30 up to about 120, we have pretty much the same thing done to both, ran neck and neck, it was AWESOME!! Mike
Hey V8 welcome to team CHEVELLE!!!! :D

Thanks Mike http://www.v8buick.com/images/smilies/xyxthumbs.gif
Great atmosphere here, nice BB !

Buicks are for the elderly. They take a back seat to the Chevelle, even if one or two (GS StageI, GNX)are fairly quick. If you can get the LS-6 to hook, the Stage I will be seeing it's taillights. The 455 is a torque monster, but it doesn't pull up top like an LS-6! tongue.gif Hey, at least it's a GM product, and an A-Body at that! Talk all the smack you want, but this is a CHEVELLE Website, ladies!

The LS5 has tons of potential. I ran high 11's with mine, and the combo was simple.
There are several weak areas.....
You have the headers. Hopefully you have a GOOD exhaust. A 2.5" mandrel system with free flow muffs would be a minimum. Better with 3"....but only if you have the mods to require it.
The Edelbrock carb is weak. Sorry......
Get a better intake manifold and a 750 Holley or Demon. A performer would be fine.
Actually, the original Qjet would also be great if tweaked properly. But you need to know what to do.
The 402 cam is also weak. A comp 280H and springs are a huge improvement.
Geting the distributor curved is the best way to get more timing. Don't just set the initial ahead. Learn how to do this....it's cheap....and the results will be good.
And....make sure you have a good fuel pump.....the stocker is only good for mid 13's. There are more than a few that will bolt on and be an improvement.
Last, as others have mentioned...TIRES. Want to make the GS guy look bad, do the above mentioned things and get some drag TA's. Stick shift cars need help...and the driver just might be the biggest difference.
I'm bettng Mr. GS has an auto......

And don't under estimate the GS, with the right tweaks, they run damn well. They just do.

Ron

Originally posted by 70GS455:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> The point that us Chevelle guys have the last laugh is when we go looking for parts Isn't that the truth. Until just recently, there were no manifolds available for the BBB... </font>[/QUOTE]Better Business Bureau?? :confused: :confused: ;) :D :D

Originally posted by www.v8buick.com: (http://www.v8buick.com:)
Well, read this article

After a V10 Viper, 2 Buicks, one of them a little 6 banger, wiped the LS6 Chevelle :D :D :D

http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/collector_cars/1997/8/showdown_muscle_cars/index.phtml

I like Chevelles, but I love Buicks !!! Unfortunately, neither of the Buicks were stock. Tests like this are always fun to read, but it would be nice to have the same driver(s) run all the cars. Thanks for posting that link btw, I've now wasted 2 hours looking for a '87 Regal I can afford. :eek:

I've always enjoyed that article,and those Buicks are slightly warmed over for sure..might as well used my Chevelle SS454 for those tests,and I would have bolted the manifolds back on and said it was a stock LS5 ;)

Unfortunately, neither of the Buicks were stock. Tests like this are always fun to read, but it would be nice to have the same driver(s) run all the cars. Thanks for posting that link btw, I've now wasted 2 hours looking for a '87 Regal I can afford. :eek:

Be that as it may. The GS still didn't sport all the performance parts the LS6 came with stock. ie solid lifters, 11.25:1 compression ratio, closed chamber heads, aluminum intake manifold and huge 780-cfm Holley carburetor.

So I think the small tweek to the GS just leveled the playing field.

And now we know the results. ;)