I graphed out my suspension last weekend and found that the geometry is all messed up. For a recap: I'm running Stock G.M. 12 bolt housing, Morrison no-hop bars on lowest hole , 29 x 10" rear hoosier drag slicks,Wolffe anti roll bar , QAL-1 Shocks front and rear. Front has Moroso springs and Hoosier 25" tires. the car sits pretty level with the front down about an inch.
My IC ended up 29 3/4" in front of the rear axle and 13 3/8 off the ground. My Center of Gravity is 64 1/2 in front of rear axle and 20 " off the ground. This puts my IC 7 1/2" above the Normal line for an anti squat % of 300%!!! Seems like my whole suspension is too high off the ground or something. does anyone have experience w/ this. I'm using info from Kevin Slaby @ www.baselinesuspensions.com (http://www.baselinesuspensions.com) as well as the info in Dick Millers book.
Any advice will be appreciated.

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/TWC/startoff.jpg

What type of suspension bars are you running? Do you have either no-hop bars or SSM style lift bars where the lower rear mounts have drop down brackets? Or are all your bars mounted in the stock position?

My car is the IC 36.875" out and is 9.5" off the ground. The anti-squat is 137.8%. One thing I really like to see is the lower control arms level with the ground, or just ever so slightly pointing down in the front. This keeps the IC pretty low which will also try and keep it from being above the neutral line.

Have you asked Kevin for his opinion on what to do next? He's one of the sharpest guys I know who tunes on factory coil spring type suspensions. If he tells you you need to try something, then by all means, make every effort to do what he says.

I will take a look at my measurements tonight. We should be close, however I am using edelbrock no hops so my uppers are at a more severe angle than yours.

How many ho1es do your morrison's have. What are the heights above the stock mounting location of each ho1e? I have been looking into their upper arm setup over my edelbrocks which offer no adjustment.

Are you dead hooking this thing? Your 60 seems to be quite a bit off for that ET. What converter do you have? How about the rest of the engine combo?

I have Morrison Upper adjustable bars and their none adjusting lower bars. The Morrison no-hop bar set comes with brackets which elevate the top control arm mounting point. I have it set in the lowest hole now and have contimplated eliminating the riser completly and going back to the stock position. The lower bars are in the stock location. To get the I.C. lower I have thought of building a bracket to lower the front of the lower control arm which would get it parallel to the ground as you said and move the IC down and out. that would get to an IC height of 9 1/2" or so and anti squat of 172 or so. I wonder if anyone has done this???
Can you think of any problems with lowering the front of the lower bar??

Just simply lowering the back end of the 1 or 2" can really help the IC height & length. How high does the car sit i the back right now? This is the best method to get the lower control arms closer to level. It's how I got mine level.

Taking the no-hops out will lengthen the IC, but will not bring it down.

I really don't see these changes really making a huge difference in how the car hooks. I see a bigger problem. Hughe torque of a 496, 2.48 first gear in the th400 coupled with a 4.56 gear. If it were me, I'd drop the gears back to 4.10 at the steepest. Could even consider going to a 3.90 or 3.73.

What type of converter is in there? What's it's flash rpm?

67 Super Sport and 10 SecBu you have mail graemlins/waving.gif
I agree lowering the back down is the best step but the car sits very level now. Fender lip in rear is maybe 1" higher than front at most. I can't see lowering further as I can barely get my 10 x29 tires under her now. I lost alot of height going from bags to the anti roll bar setup. Your correct on the upper connection point. That's why I was thinking of making the brackets for the front of the lower bar which would lower and move the IC forward.
67, I'll measure the hole spacing on my Morrison bars tonight. Take a look @ Dick Miller racing as they also manufacture no hops.

I forgot to say it is a Munzinger Converter flashes @ 5000 +/- . I had it tightened up this fall and will wait to see what results we get. I'm also considering droping the gear ratio but was only going to go to 4.33's as my power band is pretty high in the motor. Maybe 4.10's would be better. It's still a pretty heavy car. So many varibles it is hard to tell what to do first, esp. in a strip car as you get so little seat time.

Ok here are my measurements. This is with my Edelbrock no hop bars that place the rear upper bar mounting point about 3.75 inches above the stock mounting location:
IC Length- 33
IC Height- 9.3
Anti Squat- 162%

Are you sure you have all your meas. correct? I find it hard to believe that the IC is that far back with that mounting location on the upper bar. When I had my southsides on and stock upper mounting point I was at 45" IC Length and 13" High. This put me at 166% Anti Squat.
Take your measurments and put them into this calculator to make sure you have the correct data.
http://www.inductionmotorsports.com/ic.html

I will check my email later. I have to run.

I ran the calculator and it showed IC length @ 30.825 , IC height @ 10.934 and anti squat @ 203%
I'm guessing @ the weight which I'll know exact this weekend when I borrow a set of scales. I'll remeasure everything again this weekend and run it. This calculator is slick.
My Morrison bars raise the connection point 2" in the first hole and then 1" for the next two holes. Their upper bars are not double adjusting so you need to remove one end to adjust which is a pain otherwise they are fine.
Using the calculator my best bet would be to lower the front connection point
of the lower bar 1" which would set the IC @ 35.7 / 9.5 and anti squat @ 153%. Thanks for your help we'll stay in touch.
Anyone else have a comment on lowering the front connection point of the lower bar??

Anyone on lowering the front conection point of the lower bar???

I have tried my best to review all your info you sent. I would like to see your car in the low 1.40's to high 1.30's for a 60 ft. Looking at your 60's and ET's I'd say this thing is never dead hooking. There may be a lot of things going on here. One thing, does your track do a good job on track prep? Never the less things look worse than just blaming the track. I was thinking you are at the point of needing some larger tires and a ladder bar suspension, however some guys are making these stock suspensions work on pretty high HP cars. 10secbu probably has more exprience with higher HP cars like yours on a stock suspension. I have a buddy with a 69 with a 509 Shafiroff which runs 6.30's in the 1/8 with mid to high 1.30 60's, but he is doing it with a ladder bar setup and a mini tub. He has 13 inch tires up under it which helps a bunch.

As far as your setup goes. Lowering the front of the lower arm is a thought and if it is the last resort it will accomplish what you are looking for. However, I think you need to get real weights, so you know your front to rear split is correct. This could be throwing off all your calcs by a little or a lot if you are guessing wrong. If I take my numbers and lower the rear upper mounting point by 2 inches to where yours should be I come up with an IC at about 36" and a anti squat of 115%. I still can't see where yours is so far off.

What springs are you running on the rear? You mention that you have your rear shocks set 4 clicks from soft and you go softer for a slicker track. I am assuming these are single adj. and this is the bump you are adjusting. The softer the setting the harder you will hit the tire. Your fronts are 2 from soft again hitting the tire very hard. Have you gone through the whole range of shock adjustments? May need to try some stiffer adjustments.

I would also ditch the 4.56 gears and go with some 4.10's.

One other thing I have done is added 140 lbs of ballast to my trunk. 40 lbs. in front of fuel cell and the other 100 lbs is behind the fuel cell. This along with a gear switch from 5.13's to 4.56 are the best two things I have done to my car. I still think I need 4.10's. I know 140 lbs. of weight added when most want to shed it, but my car is as quick with the weight as it is without it due to hooking it with it. And come on 140 lbs is only .014 in theory. I'm not going to miss that if the W keeps blinking in my lane :D .

That's all I can come up with for now.

BTW- I know all too well how tight the 29x10 fit is. I did it with some GY's and they hit everywhere. I went back to 29.5x9 M/T's and this year I will be trying 28x10.5 stiff sidewall M/T's. All kinds of room with these tires. Another thought for you. Of course the sidewall on a 29 is good, but you are probably working it pretty good, so a stiff sidewall my not be a bad thing.

Thanks Chad for you input.Most of the posts on this site are about making power but getting it to hook is the trick. I agree that 4.10s or 4.33's are where I'm going to end up. I'll send you a chart I made to help make a decision on tires & gears. I'll need to wait until the track opens until I can figure my converter slip and then change tires and/or gears. Your correct that our track is not very well prep'd but I need to optimise what they give us. I hope to get scales this weekend and weigh the car on all 4 corners and see what that does to my CG location. The IC calculator you gave me doesn't seem to change with different weight inputs which is strange.
Rear springs are stock. Thanks for the info on shocks , yes they are the QA1 stockers which are single adjusters so I was going the wrong way. SO on a slick track I should incrase the bump pressure on the rears is that correct? I understand the front adjustment theory but haven't had rear adjustables before so thanks for the info.
I've tried to E-mail 10secbu my info but it won't send. If you are reading this 10secbu please e-mail me w/ your new address if you'd be willing to review my car stats.
Once again thanks alot and I'll keep you informed.

My e-mail is geislert@qis.net, has been that for a long time.
Go ahead and try again...I'll be in and out several times today, but will check my e-mail when I'm in the house.

10secbu , It must be on our end. :mad: I'll look into it and maybe I can send the car info early next week. I'm also having a problem opening Baseline's web site. I want to try to get Kevin's input. Do you have a phone or Fax number for him??