Just some information for you guys who are planning to buy an UNKNOWN Muncie.
I've been on here 10yrs now (seems like yesterday) and offered advise about 4spds in general, Muncies in particular.
I've always recommended not to give over $200-250 for a used Muncie unless you know the history of the tranny, or, know the reputation of the person who rebuilt it.
Once again, I stand by that! Although, with the prices of these old Muncies going up everyday, it may be OK to give a little more for a used Muncie.

At CB08 a guy gave me a Muncie to bring back and rebuild for him. Looked at the inside of the tranny and it looked "OK". WRONG, WRONG, WRONG assumption on my part! DUH!
Once again, as I've said for years, YOU CANNOT JUDGE A BOOK (NOR A MUNCIE) BY ITS COVER (OR COVER OFF IN THE CASE OF A MUNCIE)!!!!!!
Fortunately, the one I picked up at CB08 is rebuildable.
My first clue should have been that the shaft for the cluster gear was sticking out the front of the case about 1 1/2in, and couldn't be shoved back in!
Second clue. The main case has a 69 date code with a B stamped over the A, but 2 rings on the input and a 64 tail housing with a plug in the speedo hole (no speedo drive gear on the mainshaft).
I got the tranny torn down last night and inspected all the parts. One of the synchro sliders is for a Super T-10, which is workable, but it still had the three synchro plates for a Muncie (and 2 of them were broken in half). Result-------------engagement teeth on an otherwise perfectly good input are severely worn down. Thus, the input needs to be replaced.

The above are just some examples of what you CANNOT see simply by taking off the side cover and looking inside. About all you can tell is that that none of the gears have broken teeth (which is a plus).

So, again, DO NOT pay a premium price for a used Muncie if you either do not know the history of the tranny, or, you do not know anything about the reputation of whoever "rebuilt" it! :thumbsup:

Good advice Tom!

I just came from a swap meet in Canfield Oh. last weekend and I'm always checking out the price/quality of Muncies. I saw 5 or 6 tranies and every one had signs of sloppy rebuilding or abuse. All were priced over 400 dollars. One was 750 and I think all the guy did was paint it. So, it might be tough to find one for 200 or so bucks. I listened to a guy trying to haggle one down to a reasonable price. The guy wouldn't budge.

Nothing like spending $600-800 on a used Muncie, then turning around and spending $600-1000 having it rebuilt! Oh well.
This has the potential for a bottom line cost close to the price of a brand new, in the box, Auto Gear Muncie!!!! :D
Unless you get a used Muncie for cheap, and you do not need a specific date code or casting numbers, you are much better off to just go the extra $$$$ and buy the Auto Gear Muncie.

Example:
Lets say you buy a used Muncie for $200. Then you have it rebuilt by a reputable person such as Jody, Wally or me, AND ALL IT NEEDS IS A REBUILD KIT. The rebuild kit will be $160-180. Labor for just a straight rebuild will be $200-300.
Now you got $560-$680 in the tranny, which in proper rebuilt condition is worth $700-900. You're ahead, so you're OK, although it's still a 35+yr old tranny.
Now lets say it has worn engagement teeth on the gears, or the synchro sliders are worn. More $$$$ for Tork Loc sliders. Or 2nd gear is bad. Good used gears are getting harder to find, so you may need to buy a new repo 2nd gear. More $$$$. Next, once the case is cleaned up, you discover one or two cracked ears. More $$$$ for welding. The front hole for the cluster gear shaft is enlarged (common) and needs to be bushed. Guess what, more $$$$!!!! So, now the case is repaired, all the parts are assembled and the tranny is put together. Now its time to slip on the front bearing retainer and tighten the 4 bolts. DANG, 2 of the threads in the case strip out from someone previously overtightening the bolts. Take the tranny apart and install a couple of Helicoils. A little extra money for that. Just a FEW examples of what are VERY common to discover about a used Muncie once it is torn down, the parts cleaned and inspected.
Now you've spent several hundred dollars on a Muncie that was supposed to be ready to go for $700-800! Ya, right!
Ask Jody or Wally how often they see the same or similar scenarios on used Muncies.

A "B" stamped over the "A"?? As if someone was trying to trick another?? I am sad to hear that. I guess I have too much faith in others. I am going to look at an M20/21 in a week. Thank you for posting your findings and advice. Now I need to learn the differences between a 20 and 21 to know just exactly what I'll be looking at.

Once again, you are the man!

Rob

Tom:

You're scaring me!! : ) I just bought a complete set-up from pedal assembly, linkage, muncie trans, clutch, pressure plate (centerforce), 621 belhousing, and 2 shifters (one Hurst Comp Plus and the other ITM?) for $500. He wanted $750 originally, I offered $600 and we agreed on $625 if it checked out. I drove 2 hours to look at it and the first thing that happens is I move the trans and the counter shaft pops out just like you say. I tell the guy this is not good and he says he didn't know about it. OK, open up the shift cover and it looks like someone had recently rebuilt the trans with new shift forks, synchros, and replaced 2nd gear. Internally everything looks good. But as I look at the reverse shift tower on the tailhousing I notice a lot of gasket sealer and see the drift/roll pin sticking up slightly. Appears someone spent money on parts but did not research how to properly rebuild a muncie. My guess is they did not know the pin is tapered. As I already have a muncie at my house in need of a serious overhaul, I bought everything with the idea I could sell off most of the parts and still come out ok.

I checked the counter shaft and whoever tried to rebuild the trans bought a 7/8" for a 1" case. I can't imagine this thing ever kept lube in it but the guy whom I bought it from said it supposedly worked perfectly. He had bought it to install in a '68 Camaro from a friend who was going to an automatic. Hope this works out but your advice is spot on for those considering a muncie purchase from an unknown source.

Durand

Good advice Tom. I bought a Muncie 3-speed for my truck for $250. It looked fine with the cover off. I installed it, and it wouldn't stay in 2nd gear. Took it in for a rebuild, and it needed;

Rebuild kit $250
2nd gear $100
2nd/3rd Sleeve $50
1st/Rev Sleeve $50
2nd/3rd Fork $25
1st/Rev Fork $25
Labor $150

GRAND TOTAL $650

So I've got $900 in a 3-speed. I will say though, it is a smooth running, sweet shifting transmission.

This should be required reading for anyone thinking about buying a Muncie or any transmission for that matter!
Good job Tom.

Good helpful post Tom. I think Muncies pull more money out here on the west coast. Luckily I got a good rebuild but I couldn't find a rebuildable $200-$300 deal and I did call and shop around.

Looked around for a used m-21, but form the nasty things I saw and heard, I broke the piggy bank and went to Tom, TB Trans. in Spokane, Wash. Got an M-22, space age case, new gears and a helluva nice man to deal with. Spent some money, but shouldn't have to worry now. (just have to hide the broken piggy from the wife).