* Piston ring installation * HELP * [Archive] - Chevelle Tech

: * Piston ring installation * HELP *


feedphillipnow
Jan 1st, 05, 9:28 PM
This book sure comes in use when it comes to piston ring gaps, I didnt know the rings had to face certain ways and that little notch in the cylinder, I hadnt even noticed it till now. Im learning quite a few new things, It's quite enjoyable when taking time and patients, and things go well.... graemlins/thumbsup.gif So I have a few questions about piston rings.

There is a chart for cylinder notches and where the ring gaps go which makes sence but what im unsure of is which rings go where. I have speedo pro pistons. 30 over. And this is a big block for anyone who hasnt heard me yappin about this block build. tongue.gif

1 set of thick rings (Dark purple mark)
1 set of thick rings (pinkish marks)
A small handfull of really tiny rings
And the Oil Ring Spacers (The little rigid ones w/ a plastic pink and yellow block on the ends)

I know the marks face up, but not sure which way the oil spacer rings fit in.

The oil spacer rings go on the bottom correct? Im not sure which rings go where. My rings didnt really come with anything that says. Basically I need to know which ones go where.

Also, it has cylinders 1,3,5, and 7 Then 2,4,6, 8 which have different gaps for each side, correct? Which side are evens and odds? Passenger/ Driver side? And to suprise myself and some of you, I actually have a ring spreader AND expander, quite proud to actually have the proper tools to do the job... hah... graemlins/beers.gif Ok, hope I get some help. Thanks guys.
-Phil

Peter F.
Jan 1st, 05, 9:45 PM
I'm not sure which set of rings go on the top and which ones are middle rings but it does matter so you'll have to find out for sure. Hopefully someone else will know. Posting who made the rings would help because sometimes different manufacturers do things differently.

The thin oil rings go on each side of the wavy oil ring. You'll end up with the 2 thin rings on the outside with the wavy ring in between them. Make sure the wavy ring ends butt together and don't overlap. I think that's what the blocks on the ends are for, to keep you from overlapping the ends.

The ring gaps should be the same for all cylinders. Just put the ring in the cylinder and push the piston in upside down till it's about 1" or so from the top and square in the bore to measure the gap.

Here's how you know the cylinder numbering sequence for almost any engine. Start at the front of the engine (the accessory end) and number the cylinders with the one closest to the front #1, the one next furthest back #2 and so on. If you look at your engine when standing in front of it you'll see the cylinder on the front right is closest to you so it's #1. The one on the front left is the next closest so it's #2, and so on.

Peter

kjett
Jan 1st, 05, 9:54 PM
Peter is correct. The thin rings go on either side of the oil ring expander (wavy ring). The oil rings aren't directional so it doesn't matter where they go in relation to the oil expander. Make certain that the expander ends are butted or locked together. Speed Pro kits usually have a black and white mark on each end of the expander.

As for the compression rings... As stated there is a difference between the top and second compression ring. If you look closely at the rings you will see one has a larger chamfer than the other. The one with the larger chamfer is the top ring and the chamfer should be facing up. The ring with the small chamfer is the second ring and the chamfer should be facing down. Once you determine which is which simply make sure the dots are facing up and verify they're correct by checking the direction of the chamfer once installed. You also need to make sure that the ring gaps are positioned correctly. The instructions that came with the rings should tell you what to do there. Generally speaking the compression ring end gaps should be atleast 120* apart from each other. The oil ring spacer gaps are generally offset on either side of the expander ends. HTH and good luck!

daveseitz
Jan 1st, 05, 9:58 PM
Ring gap?

feedphillipnow
Jan 1st, 05, 10:29 PM
So once I get the gaps set correctly I want to make sure the rod isnt connect 180 degrees off. I keep thinking Id do that. It somewhat makes sence, Im running on duh mode but its coming together.

When you say the ring with the larger chamfer being on top, whats chamfer? The gap? One of the 2 large rings has a wider gap. Other than that they look nearly the same.

kjett
Jan 1st, 05, 10:36 PM
Originally posted by pnutkemist:
So once I get the gaps set correctly I want to make sure the rod isnt connect 180 degrees off. I keep thinking Id do that. It somewhat makes sence, Im running on duh mode but its coming together.

When you say the ring with the larger chamfer being on top, whats chamfer? The gap? One of the 2 large rings has a wider gap. Other than that they look nearly the same. The chamfer is a rounded edge on the inside of the ring (the side of the ring that is closest to the piston). You also have to make sure to install the rods correctly. The journals on the crankshaft have a radius on on the outer edge. The rods caps/bodies are chamfered on both sides where it connects to the crank. The side with the larger chamfer goes to the outside and the side with the small chamer will face the other rod that it pairs with on the journal. If you have any doubts about whether you're doing this correctly please stop and get someone to explain it better than I have or better yet show you in person. Good luck.

feedphillipnow
Jan 1st, 05, 10:37 PM
OK, 1 large ring has no bevel, the second large sing does have a bevel. I know whats what atleast. Still unclear on the gaps and that notch on the block.

feedphillipnow
Jan 1st, 05, 10:46 PM
These seems easy but im royally mixed up. I need to start over, not that ive gotten anywhere yet. These instruction arent very helpful, 80% of it isnt even in english smile.gif Dangit.

feedphillipnow
Jan 1st, 05, 10:50 PM
bevel= chamfer right?

SS4speed
Jan 1st, 05, 11:01 PM
Pnutkemist,

The Guys above are right on, great information. Yes, Bevel does equal champer. The cylinder block valve notches or cylinder block notches can be used as references, for setting up the placement of the ring gaps. All ring gaps are offset from each other, as you don't want them lined up at all. Around 22 to 45 degree offset, depending on the ring. The rings are color coded to tell you which one goes on top and which is your second compression ring. Take your time reading the instructions several times, the data will be in there, I'm sure. On some of the Federal mogal rings, the Champer on the top of the ring, means it the top ring. The champer on the bottom inside edge of the ring, means it's the second ring down. Make sure to start at the bottom with the oil ring and work up. Don't expand the ring any more than you have to to get it on.
Put the Rod between a couple of pieces of wood and place it in a vise if you have to. This may make it easier to place the rings on. Bottom line is, stop and sit down and read the instructions over and over, it will finally make sense.

Good luck,
Fred.

feedphillipnow
Jan 1st, 05, 11:16 PM
Thanks guys... Ok, first things first... well obviously the expander and the little rail rings go on first. The main thing confusing me was the notch in the cylinder. This is just for refference isnt it? I was thinking the gaps have to face the notch correctly, they dont do they? This would solve some frustration for me smile.gif

So I put the expander on w/ the gap above the "piston boss area" Which is right on the side, then the top rail ring and second rail ring, these rings dont face any peticular direction do they? They are just to hold in the expander ring?

feedphillipnow
Jan 1st, 05, 11:51 PM
Im getting it! I understand the diagram now. The oil ring spacer goes on, and both ring rails go away. Say the ring spacer is 3 O'Clock the outter rail rings are like 7 and 10 O'clock. Not too bad ;) I think im getting it.... Still not sure if this stuff has to be lined up w/ the cylinder notch though, or if its for refference. I wouldnt think it would matter?

Chevellewise
Jan 2nd, 05, 5:45 PM
I just finished a short block assembly today. Your questions are second nature to somebody that does it all the time. I have been assembling engines for 30 years. My take on the situation is to find somebody with experience to help you. I doubt that you will get it right the first time and it is very time consuming and usually more costly to do it all over again after the first failed attempt. If you have these basic questions, what about your piston-to-wall clearance, main and rod clearances, crank endplay and other critical clearnces. Don't rely on the fact that you sent it to a machine shop and they must have done everything right. I'm not trying to talk you out of doing it, not at all. I would just hate to see something go wrong. Try to get someone to assist the first time. Dennis

10secBu
Jan 2nd, 05, 6:23 PM
Originally posted by Chevellewise:
I just finished a short block assembly today. Your questions are second nature to somebody that does it all the time. I have been assembling engines for 30 years. My take on the situation is to find somebody with experience to help you. I doubt that you will get it right the first time and it is very time consuming and usually more costly to do it all over again after the first failed attempt. If you have these basic questions, what about your piston-to-wall clearance, main and rod clearances, crank endplay and other critical clearnces. Don't rely on the fact that you sent it to a machine shop and they must have done everything right. I'm not trying to talk you out of doing it, not at all. I would just hate to see something go wrong. Try to get someone to assist the first time. Dennis I agree 100%. There's nothing wrong with asking a question, but with the amount of questions you have posted, it leads me to think you have no experience assembling an engine...the first clue being you didn't know what cylinders were 1,3,5,7 and 2,4,6,and 8...real basic stuff. While there's no better way to learn than doing it, trying to get instruction off the internet is NOT the way to learn. You need someone experience standing right beside you showing you all the little tricks of proper assembly.

Please don't feel you can't post and ask questions...we all need help from time to time. I just would hate for you to do damage to a new engine due to the fact that you assembled it and missed some crucial stuff along the way from simple lack of knowledge. Find a local experienced person and offer them some beer or $$$ to come over and help with the assembly...your learing curve will be shorter that way and minimize the chances for expensive mistakes being made during assembly.

The shortblock assembly is pretty basic and simple with cam degreeing and setting up proper valvetrain geometry being more difficult.

engineguy
Jan 3rd, 05, 8:48 AM
Be very cautious when trying to identify rings by the bevel. The bevel can be either at the top of the ring or at the bottom, or there may be no bevel at all.

STEEL compression rings have no bevel at all, they have what is called a "radius face" therefore there is no top or bottom of the ring.

Cast iron and ductile iron compression rings may or may not have bevels.

MOST high performance ring sets use a beveled, radius face top ring. In this case the bevel goes toward the top and the top should be marked with a "pip mark" (small dot). But there are some ring sets that do use top compression rings with no bevel, in which case the ring can be installed without reference to top or bottom.

MOST high performance ring sets use a reverse twist, taper faced ring in the second groove. This ring will have the bevel at the bottom of the ring. If you look closely at the face of this ring, you will see that it is tapered. The leading edge of the taper will always be at the bottom when installed correctly. This leading edge contacts the cylinder and acts like a 'squeegy' in wiping oil from the cylinder on down strokes.

There is also a positive twist second ring available, that has the bevel at the top of the ring and these are not generally used in performance applications.

In summary, for the most part all major ring manufacturers will mark the top of the ring with a pip mark if ring direction is important. If ring direction is not important (radius-faced rings) then there will be no mark and the ring may be installed either way.