http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/amgent57/01020601040701031220080717ded594750.jpghttp://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/amgent57/01150701040601031220080717c64c27eee.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/amgent57/010211010405010306200807178a165207e.jpghttp://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/amgent57/01021201040501031220080717584b1bf4d.jpg

Ad says:"454 automatic, turbo 400 trans, Red with white stripes, white top,white interior. Working cowl induction hood. A real SS with matching numbers. Have window sticker."

Car is local, going to see it tomorrow with my Brother.

The guy says he bought it 18 years ago just the way it is. Interior was new. He says it could use paint and bumpers. He thinks it's the 5th color. 'Says it's a LS5, has headers and a gear drive cam, no radio, the stock wheels are included. Is an AC car but AC was removed but has all of the parts. He says he has a complete history on the car, that it's a Texas car and that all of the sheet metal is original.

He's asking 25.

What do you think?

Are there any key things I should look for?

Thank you,

Arnie

He also says the engine and tranny are recent rebuilds...whatever that means...:confused:

Just keep in mind to not pay any attention to 90% of what anyone selling ANYTHING says.

"recent rebuilds" MIGHT mean that someone told him this and in reality it had a set of rings, a valve job and new tranny fluid/filter 10 years ago.

As an example, there are hundreds of cars for sale with "beefed up Corvette motors"

if its the original motor to the car 25K is a decent asking price

if its the original motor to the car 25K is a decent asking price

IF the window sticker is legit. No docs, then that might be a bit high. Take a pic of the window sticker and post it so we can see if it's real. One thing to look for, all 1970 454 cars use the T60 HD BATTERY it was a manditory option and will be on the sticker. It's the side terminal battery, if there is a chance the original cables are still there.

I think you need a lot more info on this car for it to even sniff 25K. Nothing under the hood would even remotely lead me to believe that is the original engine, it could be , but you need to see the pad stamp unpainted for starters.

It was a little rougher than I thought it would be. The bumpers were pitted, and a little...loose? The driver's door opened like a hoopty in da hood. The car appeared to have been taken apart a few times. He said the dash was replaced(?) and there was no factory tach, just the clock.
Now for some biggies...He said at some time someone converted it to a manual trans, and then changed it back! You can see a hole in the front floor board from the conversion in two of the pix.
He said the posi blew up and it is now an open rear end! He estimated a grand to have a posi put back in.
There were little pit holes in the back lower ledge of the trunk. It felt solid, but you could see through them. There was a patch on the passenger side rear quarter, but it was a nice job.
The paint wasn't terrible, but not great.
The frame rails didn't look real bad, looked like surface rust.
He said the entire car was rewired, cause when he got it, things weren't right, like the gas gauge moving in time with the blinker...
there were some small holes in the console, from something being attached. It didn't look solidly mounted either.
It did have the sway bar and boxed arms on the rear end, they looked as old as the car.
On the plus side, it lit right up. didn't smoke and sounded very healthy. I didn't drive the car, or go for a ride.

There's more, but that's some of it...My Brother wasn't impressed, and said he wouldn't buy it, but said offer him 18 if I really wanted it.
It needs work, obviously, but I'm retired and have access to an empty airplane hangar with heat and an overhead crane, so it could be a nice retirement project.

What would you offer him, or what would you be willing to pay?
...or would you walk away and keep looking?

it does sound a little messy..it amazes what people want for some of these cars that need work.
Was it the original motor?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/amgent57/70%20SS%20454/IM001916a.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/amgent57/70%20SS%20454/IM001915a.jpg
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http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/amgent57/70%20SS%20454/IM001924.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/amgent57/70%20SS%20454/IM001939.jpg
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http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/amgent57/70%20SS%20454/IM001947.jpg
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http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/amgent57/70%20SS%20454/IM001950.jpg
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http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/amgent57/70%20SS%20454/IM001954.jpg
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http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/amgent57/70%20SS%20454/IM001951a.jpg
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http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/amgent57/70%20SS%20454/01020601040701031220080717ded594750.jpghttp://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/amgent57/70%20SS%20454/01150701040601031220080717c64c27eee.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/amgent57/70%20SS%20454/010211010405010306200807178a165207e.jpghttp://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/amgent57/70%20SS%20454/01021201040501031220080717584b1bf4d.jpg

If that's the original motor (someone here can specify what it should say - it's basically the engine code + part of your vin) it's probably a pretty decent find.

The holes in the console, if 2 on either side just in front of the seats, are likely from the seat belt bucket holders. Most of the original consoles have the mounting ears cracked, too so I would expect it to be a bit loose.

Important for '70 - if there's no build sheet you can surmise but can't really say for sure it's an SS. Certainly everything points to it, but after almost 40 years it's easy enough to swap parts and make it look like an SS.

It certainly looks like a nice driver, even if it's not an SS or an LS5 SS.

What about the VIN and pad stamp? Did you check to see if it was the original motor?

Window sticker looks too "nice" IMHO
Car is "rough"...if you want a driver that you can tinker around with and go to some cruise nights it might fit the bill...I couldn't stomach 25K though...maybe 12K-15K..how is the interior? if it had a set of SS wheels on it and some underhood detailing it would make a world of difference.

He said it was a copy, but has the original,
...so why didn't he show me the original?....I dunno.
I didn't check the VIN's.

With all those pictures, there sure are a lot of that window sticker.:confused:

I think the date on the cowl tag is 12A??? That would be the earliest known 454 car built, period. I don't think so..... :noway:

I think the date on the cowl tag is 12A??? That would be the earliest known 454 car built, period. I don't think so..... :noway:

Nice catch Dave, as always your on top of it!!!

He said it was a copy, but has the original,
...so why didn't he show me the original?....I dunno.
I didn't check the VIN's.

Run as fast as you can from this one. Why wouldn't he show the original??? Makes no sense. Better deals can be had for that money.

here is a much nicer car that sold for 25K:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150271609404#ebayphotohosting

I would pay that all day long for that car (after inspection of course)

here is a much nicer car that sold for 25K:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150271609404#ebayphotohosting

I would pay that all day long for that car (after inspection of course)

I saw that too and thought that was a great deal on a restored car.

Where does it mention being restored?

Where does it mention being restored?

You mean me? I suppose looking back and reading the entire thing. I doesnt really say that. Then again, it doesnt say anything about being UN restored either.

Just keep in mind to not pay any attention to 90% of what anyone selling ANYTHING says.


As an example, there are hundreds of cars for sale with "beefed up Corvette motors"

You mean all the Vette motors that are in the 68-72 C-10's aren't really Vette motors? LOL

That car is Arlington built. Ask the owner if he will let you look under the front carpeting and tar paper. That's where a buildsheet might be if the original tarpaper is still in the car.
Get him to show you the original window sticker.

here is a much nicer car that sold for 25K:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150271609404#ebayphotohosting

I would pay that all day long for that car (after inspection of course)

Then would you pay the same all day long for this one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=014&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=330253832506&rd=1

Then would you pay the same all day long for this one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=014&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=330253832506&rd=1

These 2 cars are not even in the same league. The second car is a comedy of errors. Wrong interior, dash needs help, color is supposed to be Green but looks almost black to me. The hood stripes are all screwed up and the Vin doesn't correspond with the Arlington plant production numbers. Sometimes they can be a few days off or over, but this one has an 03B on the tag and the Vin puts it around the 2nd/3rd week of April. Couldn't they at least spend a few bucks to get all the right dash knobs???:sad: And that's just the short list, never mind the lack of paperwork. I wouldn't cough up 10K for that car, too much to fix!!

25K is still a tough market for a 70 454 Chevelle I see.

That Black car's going to take some serious work.

I'll bet that dealer paid less than 18K for it and is flipping it for 7K + profit.

Any 70 454 you buy for $25K, you'll need to put $15K into it to make it right....

Do yourself a favor, buy a $40K car and save yourself the grief.

Your going to spend that much anyway.... You just don't know it yet. :D

25K is still a tough market for a 70 454 Chevelle I see.

That Black car's going to take some serious work.

I'll bet that dealer paid less than 18K for it and is flipping it for 7K + profit.

Is it Black? In one picture the door jamb still looks Green, which it probably is.

25K is still a tough market for a 70 454 Chevelle I see.

That Black car's going to take some serious work.

I'll bet that dealer paid less than 18K for it and is flipping it for 7K + profit.

PS John, if he gets it, more power to him. People still have to make a living and put food on the table. A car dealer is a car dealer and you rarely find a deal in their world.

That car looks black to me..lots of stuff wrong including the seats (71-72)
It looks to be in same condition as the red 70 from craigslist..maybe a little nicer.
Lots of rattle can love on it too :D
It does appear to have rectangular port heads and a GM aluminum intake..

too bad you wheren't looking for a Cutlass..I have a nice,clean frame off 71 Cutlass with a 455 for sale and its very,very realistically priced

I don't blame the dealer..... The buyer's the one at fault.

In this day and age, with all the information at one's finger tips, you'd have to be pretty uninformed to buy the black/green car.

Can you imagine the proud new owner taking that to a car show and trying to compete.......

What an awakening that would be.

A Money sucking pig that you could never get right even if you tried.

Lots of rattle can love on it too :D


I can make a rattle can look like a powder coat finish..... The trick is to at least knock off the big flakes of rust scale before you paint it. :D

It's good your asking questions now Arnie, instead of asking them after the purchase.

Here's the best advice I can give.

Unless you can do extensive major body work and rust repair (which I can't), you want to find the best body and chassis you can.

This is the foundation on which every car is built. You can have the shiniest Red paint on earth, but if it's painted over a rusty body and chassis, it'll pop through in no time.

On average, $25K, will not buy you a nice 70SS 454. It will typically buy you one that is a cosmetically covered up, piece of crap that you will pour thousands into.

Look for a mint Body and chassis. No painted over rust scales, but a smooth almost powder coated surface with no scaling.

Check the body with magnets for bondo and filler, the more sheet metal the better. Filled in Rust will pop through in no time.

The interior? 3K to make it mint.
The engine bay? 3K to make it mint.
Wheels? $1500
New Motor 5K
Tranny 2K

Chassis, paint and body? Endless possibilities costing you up to 10's of thousands.

Spend as much money as you can up front for the nicest body and chassis you can possibly afford.

Take a skilled Body man or Chevelle enthusiast with you to inspect it.

Interiors, engine bay's, Wheels and tires are all details that you'll likely replace down the road anyway. (Trust me) Your going to spend it, the most bang for your buck is spending it up front instead of ordering parts from a catalog.

Raise your bar as high as you can. You'll be spending more than a car payment per month on one of these $25K cars anyway. Find a car that somebodies got $50K into, but can only get $40K out of it because that's all the market can stand. Not a piece of crap from a dealer that's asking $25K because that's all the market will stand.

Continue to research and become an expert in crappy 70 SS 454's and what to avoid. Vin numbers, cowl tags, production dates, and all kinds of bogosity that's out there.

Above all else,

Dont Rush and enjoy the process of the hunt (it's really the best part)

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/details?adId=90303078

Wow, I went through 8 pages of 70 Chevelles on autotraderclassics and found only (1) that caught my eye in the lower price ranges up to $40K.

If the market is so soft..... There sure is alot of high priced junk out there.

, bogosity

John, is that even a word??? :D

If the market is so soft..... There sure is alot of high priced junk out there.

Amen, brother. You just said a mouthful.:yes:

"Bogosity" The continued display of extreme bogusness. :D Said in my best Keanu Reeves impersonation.

Arnie I personally know "Gene" the guy in Brookfield with the 70. Here it goes....he was offered $22k for that car a few years ago. He NEVER drives it. NEVER! It probably needs paint, bumpers need rechrome. I know the reason he is selling it is because he hates the color and doesn't want to stick the money into it. Take $20k to him and tell him take it or leave it.

Or you could buy mine for the right price??

No offense Joe, but 22K a few years ago is light years away from todays' values. Arnie just asked for opinions on this car. If it needs paint, bumpers and the list goes on and on, what's it really worth? At 20K, you could stick another 20K in this car to make it decent and then where are you? Upside down, in a big way IMHO. Again no offense here, it's just today's reality in a tough market.

I agree Mike. This guy has a ton of money and is just sitting on this car. I guess Arnie should go and low ball him. He has to realize that paint supplies alone are going to be $3k. Not to mention a slight dip in values this year.

Hey Joe, most of these 70's will cost you 8-10K for just a DECENT paint job, not a total strip/show quality job. Plus all the other issues that have to be dealt with on this car to make it half way decent. I didn't think I was too far off the mark at 10K maybe stretching 12K, if you could do most of the work yourself. It's a whole new world out there in today's economy.

Can you imagine the proud new owner taking that to a car show and trying to compete.......

What an awakening that would be.

A Money sucking pig that you could never get right even if you tried.


I agree 100%...One thing I have to say is not everyone is out to do the correct detail "thing"
I go to a lot of local cruise nights and they are full of cars that are nowhere near remotely correct. Braided hoses,aftermarket valve covers,billet this and billet that,etc.
heck,do you know how many 70-72 SS cars I see that have functional CI hoods and they aren't even hooked up? :sad:
The great thing about this hobby is people have their own way of enjoying it wether its doing the details correctly or just getting silly with the Summit catalog and buying all kinda aftermarket stuff.
It all depends on your goals.

Now I'm totally confused.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330253112124&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT&ih=014

$10.1k final bid?

By this measure, I should have been paid to take the car I looked at on Sunday.

I give up!

j/k :p

Now I'm totally confused.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=330253112124&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT&ih=014

$10.1k final bid?

By this measure, I should have been paid to take the car I looked at on Sunday.

I give up!

j/k :p

it has a "buy it now" price of $37K

Alot of times adding a Buy it now price hurts the auction.

Why bid up to 20K when you know he want's $37K?

People give up on the auction knowing he wants too much.

Arnie That is why I try to get a person looking at a car to contact the owner and try to get something from the owner as to what it will take to buy the car before it is exposed to us. Whether it is E-Bay, C/List,print ads,etc. too much of what is there is BS or an illusion. Once your info is combined with the actual ad the reality of the situation can be disected. If on the front end you get an uncomfortable feeling from the owner or his price is not even close to your budget it is a good time to move on.

Well, ya gotta admit one thing, for my second thread, it sure generated alot of hits and replies. :thumbsup:

Seriously, I am so happy I joined this forum before I spent one penny on a car. I'd like to thank everyone for their post, and generosity with sharing their knowledge. I couldn't imagine anyone buying a car without belonging to this forum, just a great bunch of guys! :beers:

Thanks everyone,

Arnie

Arnie, what did you think of that 396 bench/ 4speed car for 27K?

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/details?adId=90303078

I'd have been all over that one.

Nice car John, what a difference 10K makes. It would have been nice if the seller would have posted the castings of the motor, so you'd know if it was a real 512 package or a truck 454.

Now you switched cars, that 27K car deserves a look as well. Good colors 4 speed, not a total wreck under the hood. Lots of potential there.

Ya, I switched.... I changed my mind the more I looked. I thought he said $30K, but he said upper $30's.

$30K would have been a "JUMP NOW" deal. Upper $30's it's so so.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Chevelle-1970-Chevelle-SS-LS6_W0QQitemZ230273872515QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item2 30273872515&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318ead