I found these heads on a Dickey Scoggin crate motor. They have 62 CC domes. Anyone have any info on these heads?

Basically aluminum Vortec heads. Center bolt, use self aligning rockers, and I think they need a raised runner intake. I was looking at running those but the AFR heads are probably a better investment in my case.


This is from Sallee Chevrolet's site.

SBC Fast Burn (ZZ430) Aluminum Head.
This head can be used on any 1958-99 283-400ci small block Chevrolet V8 engine with conventional water flow design, but this head cannot be used on any LT1, LT4, or LS1 engines that are designed with reverse water flow.
The all new 23° Fast Burn small block cylinder head has the highest performance potential of any 23° small block head developed by GM. The Fast Burn head combines new technologies with the best of GM motorsports and production cylinder head technologies. The design creates tremendous power on engines from 350 to over 400ci.
The name “Fast Burn” refers to the head’s ability to quickly and completely burn the air fuel mixture, resulting in higher cylinder pressures and more power. The shape of the combustion chamber is designed to accomplish this “Fast Burn” with flat top pistons, so flat top pistons are recommended with this cylinder head. It is not recommended that the combustion chamber be modified or reshaped, as this could decrease the efficiency of the chamber.
This head is designed with a .400” deck. This new technology removes material from other portions of the head, allowing for considerably larger ports and water jacketing. The deck also provides unsurpassed clamping force for cylinder head gasket retention. The super rigid .400” deck thickness can be machined down to .340” safely for all-out performance applications and higher compression. Other ways to adjust compression ratio with the Fast Burn head include top of piston design and piston installed height.
Unlike the GM Performance Parts Bow Tie heads and most aftermarket performance heads, this head requires no additional porting for maximum performance. In the past, the industry has added material to heads to allow substantial porting, which can result in poor “out-of-box” performance and additional cost. The Fast Burn head utilizes GM Performance Parts’ Cast-Ported technology, which means that improvements in flow, combustion and cylinder fill were incorporated into the machining tooling, achieving maximum performance “out-of-box”. While additional porting is not recommended, light sanding to remove minor casting imperfections and polishing of combustion chambers and exhaust ports is acceptable.
All Fast Burn heads are CNC machined to exacting tolerances, thus eliminating the need for “blue-printing” of machined tolerances, resulting in a cost savings and unsurpassed “out-of-box” performance.
This head has taller than typical rocker cover rails, providing exceptional clearance for rocker arms and valve train supports typically used in all out performance applications.
The rocker rails are CNC machined for superior rocker cover gasket sealing.
Front head faces are drilled and tapped for typical accessory drive bracketry.
The Fast Burn head accepts both center bolt and early style four bolt flange mount valve covers.
Signature etched with GM Performance Parts logo.
Intake manifold mating surfaces are drilled and tapped for both Vortec and conventional raised port style manifolds. Vortec style manifolds are recommended.
“D” shaped 78cc exhaust port and runners provide adequate flow for applications well in excess of 500 hp. Raised runner (.240” higher than conventional 23? head) intake ports with 210cc ports and runners provide adequate flow for applications well in excess of 500 hp. Raising the top of the intake valves provides a better “line-of-sight” through the port and onto the back side of the intake valves.
The 62cc fast burn combustion chambers - the most efficient ever to be incorporated on a GM Performance Parts cylinder head - produce higher cylinder pressures by burning more of the available fuel before the piston starts its power stroke downward. By more completely using available fuel, the engine produces more power per quantity of fuel.
The 2.00” hollow stem lightweight intake valves are utilized to reduce loads on valve train systems at high rpm’s.
The 1.55” sodium filled lightweight exhaust valves have all the same benefits of the hollow stem intake valves, and additionally they are able to perform under extremely high-temperature performance applications.
This head has specially designed “deep” valve seats which can accommodate up to 2.02” intake valves / 1.600” exhaust valves.
Lightweight valve spring retainers combine with the lightweight valves to help ensure long-term high rpm durability.
Screw-in 3/8” rocker studs are used, and accept most available roller rocker arms.
Uses all conventional “low cost” readily available 23° rocker arms and valve train supports and hardware. This head is a bolt-on 30 hp increase when used on our ZZ4 crate engine. When tested on a 383 ci small block engine with 9.5 to 1 compression ratio and .540” lift roller cam, single plane intake manifold and 750 cfm Holley carburetor, the Fast Burn heads produced 497 hp at an incredibly low 5800 rpm.
Total ignition timing to be used on a Fast Burn head will vary based on a number of factors, but most configurations made the most power with 32 to 34° of total timing.
Technical Notes: Use intake manifold P/N 12496820, P/N 12366573, 12496822, or 10051103 with the Fast Burn cylinder head. Use intake manifold gasket P/N 12529094 and eight attaching bolts P/N 12550027. Use Fel-Pro exhaust gasket P/N 1470 for these Fast Burn heads (some trimming may be required for your application). This head includes intake valves P/N 12555331, exhaust valves P/N 12551313, valve spring cap P/N 10212808, and valve springs P/N 12551483. Exhaust header with LT1/Lt4 style flanges are required.
New Version - VS - Old Version:
The old original Fast Burn head had the GMPP logo stamped into the casting parallel with the deck surface. The newer version, which GMPP introduced in 2003 and retained the same part and casting numbers, runs at an angle to the deck. One end of the new version head has 5 accessory mounting holes (dual pattern) for better year coverage. The newer version heads are worth about 10-15 more horsepower than the original version on a typical engine.

when i was having my engine built, i have researched Fastburns extensively, and found out that they are great heads for the money, however; they use the Vortec style intake pattern..which really limits your choice on intakes. Even though they say it uses both bolt patterns, the intake ports don't match, even for raised port intakes. Great heads though..heard nothing but good things.

A friend bought the whole 430HP 350 from Chev. It really runs well with the hot cam and those heads. I would definately recommend the heads to anyone building a street motor.

When you say you "found" them on a crate motor, what do you mean? I figure that means maybe you know a guy with the motor and its got those heads. If thats the case, Id especially jump on them if you are getting a good deal....assuming nothing is wrong with them. If you are buying the whole motor, thats not bad either as long as the price is right. However, if you had to pay brand new price for those heads, I might look elsewhere, cause for the price of new ones, you are in the league of a canfield or afr head, along with others. And for that price, youd be a little bit ahead with one of the other heads I mentioned. But if the price is right and you do get em, they are real good heads.

I am looking at a crate motor for my car from Dickey Scoggin. It is a 383 430 hp 460 ft lbs of torque. They say to use the single plain from GM to make these numbers with a 750 Double pumper carb. Does edelbrock make intake for this style head? I noticed it has centerbolt valve covers, anyone know anywhere to find a nice looking set of covers? Can I use 1.6 rocker ratio Crower rockers on these heads?

Thanks,
Joe Phillips

they are nice heads

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/ChevySmallBlockV8s/ZZ383-425P.html

At the bottom of the page is a dyno chart using the Edelbrock "Airgap" manifold. There are dual quad, tripower, a handful of dual plane, and a fair number of single plain manifolds for these heads available.

I did some cleanup (porting) on a set for my brother. Nice castings! They were a bit rough however.
Our engine guy....who is totally familiar with the iron Vortecs was quite impressed witht he fast burns. To his eyes, they are the best heads the General has produced for the small block.
I believe they are not the same as the iron vortecs.
BTW...our engine guy races stock cars, and they require the Vortec heads (unported). They manage to make over 650hp with them............

Ron

JP - The Fast Burn heads are drilled and tapped for both center bolt and the old stye valve covers. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

The FB heads have a 210 cc intake port volume as compared to 180 (I think!) on the iron Vortecs. While they are a Vortec "style" head, and require a Vortec stlyle intake, they are substantially different.

PS - I am Ron454's brother, and the reason he is building the 498 is so he can beat my Fast Burn headed leeetle block.

PPS - OK - I made that last part up.

Oh yeah - I use the GMPP 1.6 guided roller rockers (made by Crane for GM) and they fit under the stock stamped steel valve covers with no mods. They come set up for use with guided rockers, but you can add guide plates and run regular rockers. (Don't run guided rockers with guide plates) Your Crower rockers should work fine. The rocker stud is 3/8". If you add guide plates, I'd consider rocker studs with a slightly longer threaded end that screws into the head and trim to fit as the stud goes into the intake port.

This place is like the Chevelle Encyclopedia... at the click of a button. Thanks guys!

Todd, So with the FB heads I can use either centerbolt or old style bolt covers? I'm trying to get this motor to look almost exactly like my old stock 283 that I had in the car, and I want to reuse the old valve covers, air cleaner and other dressup's.
(P.S- I would love to hear the combo you have these heads on, and the numbers, Todd. If you're willing to share that is)

Does anyone know if the Crower Stainless 1.6 Ratio rockers will work on these heads? Or do they need a special kind of rocker as well?

What lift are these heads good to?

I updated my post a bit as to rockers -

The valve cover gasket rail on the FB heads is taller than the old factory heads, meaning you can cram more stuff under them with a short valve cover. I would guess that your Crower rockers would fit with your old 283 covers, but can't guarantee that. If you have breather baffles, you might have to trim them a bit. And Yes - your 283 covers will bolt up to the FB heads.

My motor started life as a Fast Burn 385 (350 cid) and then I had it bored and stroked to 383, and added the GMPP Hot cam. It uses the GMPP dual plane intake, which is made by Edelbrock and is a Performer RPM. I use a Holley 650 DP. It is in a 69 Camaro convert with a TH2004R and an 8.2 3.73 posi. No dyno numbers, but me and my bro guesstimate about 450HP. (it runs real well!) No drag race numbers - they'd kick me out with no roll bar anyway.

The heads out of the box are good to .525 valve lift.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v61/gort69/69%20Camaro/69Convert.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v61/gort69/69%20Camaro/DSCN0885.jpg

That's a pretty sweet lookin 69 Camaro you got there! I'm just not sure what looks better, the car or your motor :confused: :D graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Nice car Al!
Ron

When I replaced the "D" port heads on my old "ZZZ" engine with the aluminum Fast Burns .......my car went from running 11.80's to running a best of 11.22.....since then I have added the Vortec single plane and replaced the stock ZZZ cam with a aftermarket cam and 1.6 rockers.......with out a lot of tuning I ran a best of 10.92 last year.......

Ken
http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/SS396Convert/nova.jpg

Okay, I'll agree with everybody else that it is a great head. Now that part in GM's statement about the head being "CNC machined to exacting tolerances." Well, may be I got the odd set, but there was not a lot of "CNC" machining.

Regardless, you have your choice. The ZZ4 is rated at what, 355 horsepower (it's been awhile so somebody feel free to correct me). IIRC it has the Corvette heads. If you want to spring for some more money, you can get the Fast Burn 385, which has the Fast Burn heads and that is where it gets the 30 additional horses. Then, you add 1.6 rockers to that (I don't know about aftermarket, but GM makes 1.6 rockers that will work. The only potential problem is interference with the valve covers and there are two options: Taller valve covers, or a spacer that GM sells.) When you add the 1.6 rockers, the horsepower goes up still further. (The spacers are a little pricey at around $140.00.)

You may remember the ZZ430, referred to above. IIRC, that was a ZZ4, with the Fast Burns, the HOT cam and the 1.6 rockers.

If that isn't enough there is the 383/425, also referred to above, which has the Fast Burn heads (unfortunately, I don't remember which cam or rockers).

BTW, that great looking Camaro with an estimated 450 horses. I'd say that sounds about right for that engine.

You pays your money, you takes your pick.

I was looking at the 383/425, with the aluminum heads, hydraulic roller camshaft, 4340 forged crank, and stainless valves...

The cam specs-
Camshaft, Lift (I/E) : Hydraulic Roller, 0.509”/0.528”

Dur. @ 0.050" (I/E) : 222°/230°

It's got the 1.5 rocker ratio on it.
I'm looking to switch to the 1.6 Crower stainless rockers though.

Do you guys recommend electric fuel pump with this motor? If I will be spraying a 150 N.O.S plate system? Or can I just use a nice mechanical? Any recommendations?


Thanks,
Joe Phillips

Joe,
Use a Holley Blue pump. It will come with a regulator and should supply plenty of fuel. Skip the 1.6:1 rockers They won't help. It will require changing springs, retainers, and machining on the heads. I have dyno'ed this combination and all it will do is move peak torque up by 200-300 rpm.
BB @ sdpc

I can't help with the Crower rockers (although I believe GM, with its HOT cam kit that includes rockers, uses the 1.6 Crane gold rockers, and if I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me), but I agree with Ponykiller and I do believe you will need the electric fuel pump.

GM made a conversion kit (no longer available) for certain third gen Camaros and Firebirds, allowing an owner to convert to an H.O. 350 (IIRC correctly, and by the way I think GM has an H.O. 350 and a 350 H.O. or something like that). Anyway, as part of that conversion, GM did recommend an electric fuel pump.

If you would like the p/n for that GM electric fuel pump, post a reply and I'll try to locate.

The hot cam kit does use a 1.6 roller rocker (crane?). the HO conversion for the f-body cars is no longer avaliable but it did use the ZZ4 engine and and electric pump. But it was an in take pump and would not supply enough fuel for the zz383 and nitrous............

Where can I find the Holley blue pump with the regulator package?

Thanks for the help!

Joe Phillips

Do you have your Summit Racing catalog handy? The catalog that I just got has them on page 39. What Pony seems to be talking about is Holley in-line electric fuel pump, p/n HLY-12-802-1. This is on the one that comes with a regulator. (They come in various colors, if you hadn't guessed, to suit, I suppose, the Martha Stewart in all of us. Okay, maybe some of us). Anyway, the red does not pump as much and the black will pump more, than the blue. $107.88 plus shipping.

some guy on ebay sells the holley blue fuel pump for about 60 dollars, no regulator, but he backs them for life, it quits he will send you another. we put fast burns on my sons 400sb, never again we have both decided. the cost of all the machine work to run a roller cam and other stuff it would have been the same as getting afr's and we would have got to run the old bolt pattern to boot.

Mechancic427

We were thinking of putting a set of Fast Burns on a 1969 Chevelle with a 350. Mistake?

So let me get this straight, you guys are saying that a holley blue pump (110 gph) is better for supplying the motor fuel, then a Holley mechanical 130 gph?

Please explain.


Thanks,
Joe Phillips

parrydise, it depends on the cam and intake choice you want. the fast burns need machine work to run any good springs and on ours they had to be welded up so that the intake would seal right (block had beed decked). the header bolt holes had to be ovaled out to get a seal because of the high exhaust ports, the headers have to be held up when you bolt them on and now the collector is very close to the floorboards. this is with the 1 and 5/8 size tubes in a 71 camaro and of course the 2 and 1/2 exaust is now hitting the cross member. so if your starting from scratch and can find a set of headers that fit and your exhaust is going to be made after the heads go on you may not have the problems we did.
jp-15 its always better to blow fuel than suck it. suction lowers the boiling point of most anything, hince vapor lock in a high horsepower, high heat car. plus the factor of g force on the gas in the fuel line.

Mechcanic427

Thanks for the great information! We were thinking about the Fast Burn heads and either an L-79 cam (that was the 327/350 horse engine) or the HOT cam. The Chevelle has an a/t, so I don't think the HOT cam would work.

What do you think? Thanks, again!

Hot Cam is fine with an automatic. They idle very smoothly - you hardly even know it's there. I use a 2200 stall converter.

I'll verify Todd's story. I built the exhaust for his car, and the thing idles like a girls motor....I mean stocker. Maybe a bit of crackle, but not much more. Sounds good though. We put a Pypes X system on it.
He wears a dress when driving it...... :)
BTW.....I think the HOT cam will smoke the old 327/350 cam....I mean what is there, 25+ years difference in engineering?
Todd really should have stepped up to a better cam though......

Ron454 has a good point about Todd's cam, although right now Todd could beat Ron454's Nova RUNNING down the quarter mile....

Also, thought I'd post this picture of Ron454's dream car.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v61/gort69/69%20Camaro/6120By20The20Cabin.jpg

(In case anyone stumbled across this thread, Ron454 and Todd are brothers - it's all in good fun!)