All right, I'm just thinking about the future...

What would you guys do w/a 454HO?

1) supercharge (about 2600.00) and hopefully get close to 600 HP.

2) spend the same on heads and cam. And hopefully get close to that hp#.

I like those Paxton or Vortecs that mount on the front of the engine. Maybe this would fit under a stock '69 hood. Don't have to crack into the motor either. Smooth power deliverly I would think. However, this would add more weight.

If you went w/option 2, you would lose weight w/the aluminum heads - that in itself is a performance gain. The more that I think about it, the more expensive it will get (roller lifters, etc). Might be more of a radical combo though.

Some feedback please.

The power bug already hit you, didn't it. I've got a nice 233/236 .600/.610 GenVI cam and some 22CC pistons sitting on the shelf that would make that HO do a complete about face.

But more seriously, I am not surprised. The cam in the 454HO is really small. Why not consider pulling the heads, cutting them a bit to bring up the compression (at least into the low 9's) and reassemble with a lot more cam and the valvetrain to match. Seems to me, a jump from a 425HP 5000 RPM motor to a 500HP 6000 RPM motor is real easy with these.

There is no comparison. A 600HP blown motor will have it all over the NA motor. The torque curve will start early and be fat through the middle, plus it will idle and drive like a stocker.

Totally agree on Supercharger output versus NA. But on his motor, even if all he did was supercharge, most likely the motor will have to come apart anyway. At the very least the heads will need a major spring upgrade. And if I was going to go the expense of supercharging, I would certainly want more cam in there to make it work right. At least the bottum end is somewhat bullet proof.

I would vote for the supercharger, I have a Procharger P600b (smallest Procharger made) that puts out about 6 psi of boost and I am probably making close to 700 hp based on a 3800 lb car running 128 mph in the quarter. This is with a hydraulic cam and 241 oval port heads blowing through a Holley 800.

If getting a supercharger means digging into the motor, to me that would defeat the purpose of it.

Joe, I will probably do what you said at some point. I just don't know how "big" a cam you can go with considering the compression. I figure the ZZ502 cam alone would work nice and probably would have to get into the lifter issues.

I would disagree re; bigger cam and upgraded springs. It is not needed once the engine is boosted. If the engine is sound, and has decent pistons, then 10 to 14 psi is acceptable, without any other changes, except for ignition mods.

It was my understanding that a spring upgrade is needed to run some decent boost. JMHO in this matter - if I were to consider the expense of a Centrifugal S/C, I would take the time and effort to make some subtle changes to ensure the outcome.

Vince lives right up the road from me - his '69 is a real nice car. And if anyone has experienced problems - he has - what say Vince - 3 times in/out with the last motor? So why take any chance and cut a corner? Weiand recommends a valve spring change for a simple 177 Roots puttting out 5PSI.

Regarding a cam change, fairly sure anything over the stock HO cam will need a spring changeout, but stock GenVI lifters are good to about .560 lift. If you get ambitious and want to change the cam out this winter, let me know. I have an open bay right next to my own '69.

The springs can be upgraded to offset the actual force the blower pressure puts on the backside of the valve. For example, a 2.18 valve would effectively loose over 40lbs of seat pressure at 12psi. But once it's off the seat, that force is gone.
To me the blower is the most cost effective mod by far.

That's what I thought. A Centrifugal will operate with a lot more boost than a Roots. So the issue with a stock HO head comes down to using the stock spring seat or taking the plunge to go to a much better spring setup with a larger diameter.

How much would a centifugal setup weigh? I would think another 100lbs w/all the related items. Something else to consider.

A procharger setup cannot weigh 100 lbs. In fact, I doubt if it adds 50 pounds. Another thing is that you will be lucky if it clears your hood. I have a '71 with a cowl induction hood, and, with a big block, the carb hat and outlet tubing still barely clears the hood. That was one of the big reasons why I chose a centrifugal to begin with.....I wanted to keep my factory steel cowl induction hood. Also, I don't know what kind of steering you have or what Ty has on his '69 (you say yours is an SS so I will deduce that you have power steering), but a Saginaw power steering setup will not work with the brackets that Procharger uses.

Mike

P.S.-I'm talking only from my knowledge with a Procharger, but I'm at way over your budget of $2600!

I agree the Procharger setup is less than 100 lbs. I have a manual steering box off of an S-10 on my car, at the time I put the supercharger on the car there wasn't a good power steering pump bracket available. I also have a 4" Glasstek hood and with a Weind Team G intake, Holley carb and a West Coast Fab hat it just misses the hood and you have to make sure you have the screws on the clamps pointing down or they will hit the hood.

I guess it definitely will not clear a '69 hood. I was aware of the power steering issue, I figured it would have to be relocated.

How do you guys like the power/power deliverly of those setups?

So if the hood clearance is still an issue, why not just go to something like a 177 ?

I assume the trick for the Centrifugal would be to use the stock low riser manifold or a very low aftermarket one.

Does something like a 177 fit under one of the aftermarket (Goodmark) cowl hoods for a '69?

Hello,

I have a 174 B&M supercharger on a 454 in a 1970 with stock Cowl Induction hood. Essentially same setup & demensions of the 177 Weiand.

Using Moroso solid engine motor mounts. Also have a 3/8 inch spacer under the 850 double pumper to clear the 50cc pumps I have on the carb. Plus a heat shield under the spacer & carb of .065 inch thickness.

Everything fits under the stock Cowl Induction hood.

Glass 3 or 4 inch cowl hood on a 69 should be no problem. I don't know about Goodmark hoods or under hood space they offer.

For valve springs, using the springs that go with Crane Commander hyd flat tappet cam. .553/.571 236/246 @ .050. 5psi of boost and no problem with valve float. Springs are nothing special. Lots of street and abuse miles. Beauty of the small blowers is tons of power with relatively basic parts. Nothing exotic at all.

Good luck, Joe.

Joe(SS454JC), Hope you check back in here. What is the static compresson ratio of the 454? Also with your 174, do you happen to know off hand what the final drive ratio of the blower is? I think the 177's come standard with 1.95 drive ratio. I would assume you could run one of these little blowers even down to around a 1.5/1 drive ratio and still get a lot of power out of one.

Hello,

My compression is about 9:1. I am using forged TRW flattops (they have small eyebrow shaped valve reliefs on top, pressed pins). My engine is .060 over 454. Steel rectangular port closed chamber heads and TRW head gasket get me in range of 9:1....maybe 9.5:1.

Recently, I removed the 6 inch "B&M" crank pulley and changed to 7 inch "Weiand" crank pulley for turning the supercharger. This allowed me to use a little larger pulley on the supercharger and still get a high overdriven ratio along with more belt to pulley contact (more wrap of belt around pulleys).........hopefully dropping potential for belt slippage. With this setup, my B&M 174 is overdriven by about 2.25:1

Even with the 1.5:1 ratio, you can still get a ton of power and still be "easy" on parts like cast pistons since boost would be about 3 maybe 4 lbs on a 454.

In this recent thread a couple of us got into cams and blowers too.
http://www.chevelles.com/forum/ultimatebb.php/topic/4/23673.html#000000

At 5 lbs of boost, the car is impossible on street tires. Blows them away in all 5 gears.

I have part numbers somewhere. Drop me a line if you want to compare notes.

....Joe

if you want power steering with a procharger kit, call them and order the "A" body kit
ita a nice compact deal, you have to use a remote resv., but you can use the small factory ones