My motor's going to be done within the month, according the engine shop. I'm starting to second guess myself. Am I in the 10's with this combo? Be honest with me. I'm tough.

-1974 454 cid 2 bolt block .060 over
-GM forged steel crank
-Eagle ESP H beam rods, 7/16 ARP rod bolts
-SRP forged billet pistons, 12.7:1 compression
-SRP chrome moly rings
-Lunati solid 292/301, 259/267 (@ .050), .625/.625, 110 LSA, 3500-7200 rpm’s
-GMPP Signature Series rectangular heads
-Summit fabricated aluminum valve covers
-2.19/1.88 Manley Severe Duty race valves, 11/32 stem
-Crane Gold roller tipped rockers
-Crane one piece pushrods
-Crane guide plates
-Edelbrock Victor Jr. rectangular intake
-Cloyes true roller timing chain
-Moroso seven quart oilpan
-Moroso high volume oil pump
-SFI approved dampner
-SFI approved flex plate

That motor is simular to mine, The only to things i would change would be the valves i would use 2.25's 1.88's, And you were close on the cam the 296/304 f10 6.30 lift is much better, BUT you will do tens providing the rest of the car is set up, You need a 950 hp carb for that, But if you alreay bought everthing keep it, Spray the crap out of it and do 9's...mike

That engine *could* get you in the 10's, as 10's have been done with less engine - so why not you.

That possibility aside, I do not expect that engine will carry you to a 10.9x anything. Without knowing dime one about the rest of your car, I'll gun for an 11.3x e.t.

It takes more than horsepower and torque to get into the 10's - which car will this be going in, what does it weigh etc? Your chassis setup and transmission/converter take on greater importance the quicker you want to go.

I'm sure that you have read it in Team Chevelle many times already - you have to get a good 60' time. Which takes good weight transfer, traction, and a complimentary drivetrain.

Thomas

Thomas,

I think that combo is going into the caged '78 Malibu he's been posting about.....

Are those heads the aluminum "roval" heads (off the ZZ502), or the cast iron rect ports found on the 454HO?

I think the heads will be the "weak point" in the engine. It will probably make power pretty high in the RPMs, and lack under 3500, so I hope u have the right gear & stall. If your car hovering around 4000 lbs race weight, 10s might a bit out of reach. As Bomber 67 said, I've seen less engine get 10s, but then again, I've seen more engine not even come close.

EDIT: Slowpoke70 says its the Malibu, and it shouldnt weigh more than 3200 lbs curb, so assuming 3400 lbs race weight, 10s should be quite doable, assuming your suspension and the rest supports it.

1) What does the car weigh?
2) Good convertor?
3) No mention of fuel system.
4) I don't know much about those heads, but is that cam big enough for 12.7:1 CR?
5) Is the chassis/tire setup capable of 1.4x 60' times? If not, you may have the potential for 10's with the motor, but never get there with the setup.

If my 78 Malibu will go 1.49 60's on 9X28's with less motor and near stock suspension, only lower SSM bars in stock location, no reason to believe your car won't go faster. It's just a matter of fuel delivery, correct stall and steep gears. I have 4.56 in mine but I'm running a SBC, you may get away with 4.10. Good luck Sean. Gary

Let's see, if you were build a chassis similar to Todd's and a motor which appears to be a bit nastier than Kenny's, with a dialed in combo, you figure it!

Who care what anyone thinks Sean, it's pure speculation. Build it with confidence and then tune it to your goal.

Looks like you may want something steeper then 4.10s like 4.30s for a 6800 rpm shift point. But I'm sure you;ve done the math on that.

Originally posted by -SS454-:
Are those heads the aluminum "roval" heads (off the ZZ502), or the cast iron rect ports found on the 454HO? These are Aluminum rectal port heads, 300cc short, 315 long runner volume, 118 open chamber.

Originally posted by Epistuff:
1) What does the car weigh?
2) Good convertor?
3) No mention of fuel system.
4) I don't know much about those heads, but is that cam big enough for 12.7:1 CR?
5) Is the chassis/tire setup capable of 1.4x 60' times? If not, you may have the potential for 10's with the motor, but never get there with the setup. 1. As said above, it will be about 3400 pounds with me in it.
2. 4000 stall 8" converter built by The Converter Shop.
3. Fuel system is a Mallory Comp 250 fuel pump, Comp 500 canister filter, 1/2" line, to Holley 950HP.
4. Good question. That's what Lunati suggested based on this combo, compression.
5. rear is Ford 9" Strange spool, 4.30 gears, Moser 31" axles, M/T 28x11.5" ETS's, Moroso trick springs, QA-1's, BMR adjustable UCA's, and BMR boxed lowers, and an anti-roll bar (haven't bought this yet). Very capable of 1.3-1.5 60' foot times.

Sean,

Looks like a pretty good combo. There are a few variables, though. Those GMPP heads are notorious for poor flow. My friend that runs Super Stock Production has to run those heads and has done quite a bit of research/work on them. I think I recall him saying peak flow was at or under 300cfm on that head stock. After extensive work he has been able to get them to flow over 360cfm. IMO, those heads (without significant work) will be a limitation for max power. The cam looks pretty good, I might have gone with a little more lift but if the heads perform as my friend describes more lift may not help. Having nearly 13:1 compression will help quite a lot. I personally had very poor luck with a Victor Jr. intake. On my combo it lost .3 in ET and MPH'd the same (within 1mph) of my ported Performer RPM. I would encourage you to have that manifold worked over by someone who knows what they're doing before ever putting it on the car. My guess with the combo as it sits is that it will make between 550-575hp. I think you're going to find that you'll be hard pressed to get an 8" converter to stall much below 4,500RPM even though your car weighs ~350 less than mine. I'm going to guess that this will run 11.0s to 11-teens at ~122mph. With some head/manifold work it would easily be in the 10s. Of course I hope I'm wrong and that it will run much faster than that :D

I thought the guy said 8", but I could be wrong. I'm trying to recall a conversation that lasted twenty minutes, four months ago. Might have been nine. Anyway, 10's was the goal, and I figured 11's would be reality. Gotta work for something.

Chevy HiPer did flow these heads and came up with these numbers.
lift Intake exhaust
.05 40 26
.1 73 58
.2 146 113
.3 204 138
.4 248 167
.5 282 192
.6 300 212
.7 318 227

That's just about what your friend had.

Originally posted by SS_Sean:
I thought the guy said 8", but I could be wrong. I'm trying to recall a conversation that lasted twenty minutes, four months ago. Might have been nine. Anyway, 10's was the goal, and I figured 11's would be reality. Gotta work for something. Sean,

Sorry if my comments sounded discouraging. I think it will be a great start and you'll be a hell of a lot closer to 10's than I was on my first combo graemlins/thumbsup.gif Also, I don't want to make it sound like flow is everything, but it IS very important (as is cam/intake selection). Consider this, a very well prepared set of 215 oval iron heads will only flow around 315cfm at .700 lift. However, from experience we know that this is enough to propell a 2 ton ride well into the 10's. The important thing to remember is that this head has a runner volume of ~290cc. Your heads have a runner volume that is 25cc larger. If you take two heads that flow the same but one has a larger runner you will have better cylinder filling and consequently make more power with the smaller head. I'm going through this with my heads at this very moment. I sent the heads off to be ported. They ended up epoxying the runners to make them smaller (300cc vs. 310cc), but the heads now flow more than before due to port work and runner cross section. Something to think about. Can't wait for you to get it to the track! If you've never driven a low 11/high 10 sec ride before you're in for a real treat graemlins/thumbsup.gif

You're not discouraging me. I read your post on your heads closely. I don't think there could be any disappointment going from a 13.25@105 in my '02 Camaro SS to an 11.15@122 in my junkie ol' Malibu. That would be worth a smile and a photo. smile.gif

how well do the edelbrock heads flow compared to stock 990's with a good valve job? i think 10's is a very real possibility. mike

GM 990's:

.05 32 24
.1 69 53
.2 125 101
.3 183 134
.4 233 163
.5 264 180
.6 292 185
.7 - 186

SS_Sean, we have a set of square port 4026 replacement heads that flowed 338.1 @ .700 and ran 10.49 @ 128 in a 3500 pound Chevelle with 4.10 gears and a 400 Turbo. So the heads you have aren't that lame. A friend of mine has a 427" S/S Camaro that is putting these heads on his car and i'll be surprised if they don't run easy nines. His square port 396 ran 10.12 @ 131+ in this car and it had closed chamber heads. Those flow figures are pretty low, here are the flow figures for the 4026s that my son used, .100 - N.T., .200 - 167.5, .300 - 216, .400 - 274, .500 - 298, .600 - 320.3, .700 - 330.1 with a larger 2.25 intake valves the flow increased to 178, 234, 280.5, 320.3, 330.8 and 338.1 checking from .200 lift to .700 lift on a very conservative bench. The Exhaust from .200 on is as follows = 104.6, 150.2, 180.3, 202.5, 218.8 & 241.1 and with bowl work 107.9, 156.9, 190, 218.8, 241.1, & 248.1. Way better than the stock valve numbers from CHP. I think CHP tried to slant these tests towards the aftermarket to show that the stock heads couldn't be made to flow which is a crock.

I made it into the tens with the Edelbrock Oval port heads, less cam (UD 255/263 F10) and less compression (9:1). And less converter, (10" B&M)
In a 3500lb car.
One advantage we have here in Oregon, we are close to sea level. My car only dipped into the tens on cool good air days.
Short times are always in the low 1.50 range. 1.49 when the air and track are good. I run 10x29 Hoosiers with a 4.10 gear.
So in my estimation, you will get there with tuning. And good cool air.
It's the complete combination that makes it happen.
Ron

I agree, 3400# with a good suspension, good fuel supply and a hi-compression 454 should get you there. I just thought you would have more cam (lift and duration) in that bullet. Is that 12.7 how is was measured and calculated in your block? Or is that some spec from the piston manufacturer with a certain size head? I am curious as to how much cranking compression you have. Get a good battery (Delco 78DT) good cables and a strong starter. Good luck to you, the project seems to be coming along, I checked out your other posts on the rollbar work. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

If you haven't bought the eldebrock heads, I wouldn't not recommend them. Look into any aftermarket head with raised exhaust ports because thats the money maker there. Don't buy into the idea that you will have header fitment problems(you will) as in the new Car Craft. Look into AFR, Canfield, or Brodex. For a 454 type application I always wondered about the Rec Port BB1, which is only 280 CC. I wonder if those are still made?

IMO, no.

Originally posted by Ron454:
I made it into the tens with the Edelbrock Oval port heads, less cam (UD 255/263 F10) and less compression (9:1). And less converter, (10" B&M)
In a 3500lb car.
One advantage we have here in Oregon, we are close to sea level. My car only dipped into the tens on cool good air days.
Short times are always in the low 1.50 range. 1.49 when the air and track are good. I run 10x29 Hoosiers with a 4.10 gear.
So in my estimation, you will get there with tuning. And good cool air.
It's the complete combination that makes it happen.
Ron When you say 'we' in Oregon you mean 'you' in Oregon. Southern Oregon Dragway is 1,400' elevation. As I recall Woodburn is 90'.

Originally posted by kstanbach:
If you haven't bought the eldebrock heads, I wouldn't not recommend them.I already bought them. I picked up a set of brand new heads for $800, bare. Good price.

Originally posted by Epistuff:
I agree, 3400# with a good suspension, good fuel supply and a hi-compression 454 should get you there. I just thought you would have more cam (lift and duration) in that bullet. Is that 12.7 how is was measured and calculated in your block? Or is that some spec from the piston manufacturer with a certain size head? That's the JE piston spec. It doesn't amount to much, I know. It's a ballpark based on a 118cc head. I'm not sure how the actual measured compression will come out. As I said, the motor's still being assembled, so I don't have any final spec's.

Originally posted by yanniz:
IMO, no. Now, I'm bound and determined to make tens. :D

After finding out a bit more about the rest of your car, I now think you will make 10's. It would appear that you have a decent enough race weight and suspension/chassis to make it work.

Don't worry about the heads. At your race weight and suspension heads with less flow have run 10's.

Thomas

sean,, we ran a 65 chevelle 10.5" tire car with an old school bolt on ladder bar suspension that was welded on. motor was stock LS-7 with 990 heads and lunati 40227 or 40228 cam. weiand single plane, carb shop bolt on 920 carb. with a 5500 b@m converter,glide and 4.56's car ran consistant 10.65-10.70. mike

SS_Sean,
Ok.....in Northern Oregon "we" are near sea level. I forgot about Souther Oregon Dragway.

Did you catch the latest Car Craft with the group of Nova Guys from Medford?
I assume they run at Southern Oregon Dragway as well.

Merry Christmas.

Ron

No, I sure didn't. I'll pick that issue up and check it out. There's a number of Nova's that run there in the 10-11 range. Thanks.

I think your gonna be real close to 11.0's to 10.90's. It could really be determined to how well the converter is matched to the whole combination. If it's dead on, it will fly, but if it's a little too tight, it'll slow you down and not run to it's full potential.

This is just one of those "wait and see" things...spring seems like a long way away right now though.

I hope running a tight converter with mine will help preserve the rest of the driveline until it can all be made bulletproof :D