My 64 chevelle heats up at the track. The car is making about 600 hp. I've got the stock radiator in it. The car is 99% track drivin with very limited street usage. I've got an electric fan and electric water pump. My question is: I can get a direct replacement 4 core for $300 from true connections or should I get a 2 core aluminum from Be Cool for $300 (cross flow-not there $800 downflow). What do you guys recommend?

There's no way an electric water pump will cool a motor making 600 hp. It will work on the street because you're making a lot less power there.

1st of all whats the current stock rad you reffering to 2 or 3core?

Also,keep in mind its just as important to have good/ample airflow through the rad along with good coolent flow through the rad & motor and some elec pumps & fansare not up to the task /. And thats esp true if you dont have a good powerfull fully charged battery and good alt with plenty of umph which your likely not running due to trying to save power like with elec w/pump. There there's the hot blascktop/asphalt at the track sitting in the staging lanes where the temps are like in the 100+ on a hot day which isnt such good air for cooling either esp when its thoses lazy hazy HHH of summer in the 90's,UHPH!!!!!

So a new better cooling rad may help but its likely not the only reason your motor is getting hot at the track esp on a hot day.

Again,you need max airflow from a high quality elec fan and good coolent flow from hi quality elec w/pump too. So dont forget thoses parts of the puzzle when you get a new rad or you could end up chasing your tail a bit in trying to get it cooled down some.

I would go al because it's generally more efficient then most copper/brass design rad's and its lighter too which is a good thing when racing.

One last thought,if you end up getting a good high flow ele pump make sure to install a hi flow stat too becasue a stock typ stat will be a restrictor to the ehanced coolent flow a hi perf ele pump can offer.

Scott

I've got a csr pump and a 16" electric fan pulling 2200 cfm. So hopefully my 2 core radiator being 45 years old is just plugged up and not functioning properly. I'm running an alternator too.

my 2 core radiator being 45 years old is just plugged up and not functioning properly.
.

:clonk: X2 !!

First of all, aluminum does not cool any better than brass. Second, the number of cores does not tell you how much cooling you can expect from a radiator. The size and design efficiency of the cores is the biggest factor, so it is easily possible to design a radiator with 2 cores that can outcool a poorly designed 4 core radiator. Adding cores is a last resort to added cooling because each core gets succeedingly hotter air after it passes over the core ahead of it.
I suggest going to a reputable radiator shop with knowledgable people. The experts will be able to tell you the comparative cooling you can expect from the radiators they offer.
Also, any older radiator can be expected to have lost much of its cooling ability because it is corroded and lined with scale inside it.

my 2 core stock radiator cools my 489, with a edlebrock vc jr WP:yes:

Normally hovers around 170 with a 180tstat.:yes:

On a cool day I dont even have to run a fan.

3 row copper brass 1/2 inch tubes =1.5 inch fin to tube contact
4 row copper brass 3/8 inch tubes =1.5 inch fin to tube contact
2 row Aluminum 2 rows 1 inch tubes= 2.0 inch of fin to tube contact a full 1/2 inch more of tube to fin contact .

original Harrison rad .. 1/2 inch spaceing between tubes = x tubes for the length of the header .. low fin count 10 to 12 fin per inch
New style Aluminum 3/8 inch spaceing between tubes = x more tubes for the length of the header= more tubes and more capacity .. higher fin count 15 to 16 fin per inch .. where the head disipation takes place .

sorry Gary S

the fact that the rad is 42 yrs old may be a big reason its lost the worthness to cool
3 keys to cooling
a efficient enough radiator
good flow , meaning pump ant t/stat
and good CFM threw the rad

2200 is not bad .. 2800 twins would be better .

if you care to take a look at this link

http://www.chevellecooling.com/m3_view_item.html?m3:item=CHEVELLE%20A-66%2F67-A%20B%2FB%20-%20W%2FSPAL%20TWIN%2011%20INCH%20FAN%20KIT

Don

You might want to read some of the information about testing radiators that is available on the web.
http://www.usradiator.com/testing.htm

You might want to read some of the information about testing radiators that is available on the web.
http://www.usradiator.com/testing.htm

US Radiator promotes each of there lines differently ...is you werent aware Cool Craft Aluminum radiators is US Radiator and they tout the Aluminum radiators to be 30% more efficiant then Brass copper ... its all based on what there selling to promote sales .

due to the construction of the Aluminum format as I stated earlyer .. larger tubes more fin contact , no led used in the fin to tube contact patch ..does make aluminum more efficient.

Brass copper and Aluminum on a heat coefficient chart ar comparable .. but the over all difference in construction is what makes them 30% more effective .

Don

don, my biggest question is why is the copper or aluminum radiators so expensive? for what i can get a copper 3 row replacement for the aluminum is about 200.00 more. i'm running a 396 in a 69 chevelle with a viscus fan and i'm trying to keep the stock look? bill:confused:

HotRod/Bill,before you try a new radiator try a napa 271303 h/d fan clutch from your local napa store or napa online like where i get them from or try the hayden 2747 H/D fan clutch .

I have found over the past few yrs that the std duty thermostaic fan clutches mfg today are not up to the task of cooling even a mild 396.

I have a mid 396 with stock shroud/good 4 core rad/hi flow pump and stat/stock gm 772 7 blade clutch fan and it used to get a little warm in traffic on hat days .

Well i finally after a few yrs of noticing that installed a new napa 271303 - H/D fan clutch when we had the 95-100 deg heatwave here in NY a couple wks ago man that made all the difference.

Even though my std duty clutch was new when installed the hd a/c clutch really cools better to to locking up bettr for more fan rpm . It ran approx 8-10 deg cooler in traffic and when leaving the stop/go traffic back to open road crusing it cooled back down at least 2x faster then it used to with the std fan clutch and i could hear when the h/d clutch unlocked after the temp would come back down after being at cruise for a min or 2.

So if you motor never realy over heats but just runs hot enough to concern you in slow or stop/go traffic then i bet the h/d fan clutch will help you out (if not already running one)for $70 insted of $300 for new radiator. If you already have a h/d clutch maybe it gtone bad,it should have a llot of resistance when turning by hand cold ,it not much resistance then its likely bad or on its way out. It should also lock up for the 1st min or 2 when starting the motor cold.

I bet with a new 3 core rad ,h/d fan clutch & 7blade gm 772 fan,and fan shroud you should be ok. But thats as long as you have a hi flow pump and hi flow stat to compliment the hi flowpump with a proper fan shroud too. An improper ign timing curve (esp base timing being retarded when runnng an aftermarket perf cam)and lean fuel calibration also adds to increased engine temps and heating issues so keep that in mind too.

But dont go for the severe duty fan clutch,it will cool great but at the cost off additional noise that will drive you nuts allong with the additional dirt the fan always rpming high will with severe duty clutch will pull into the engine compartment .

BTW,napa nor hayden list the h/d a/c clutch fans for our 69's anymore so dont ask them to look upthe application becasue you will only get a useless std duty clutch that way,just use the pt#'s i researched and stated above from napa & hayden because i know they are correct for the 772 gm 7 blade fans because thats what i am running and they fit it fine but the napa unit is what i prefer to run.

BTW,the Alumitech AL rad's are a very high quality well built unti and Don the owner is a great honest person to deal with that gives great customer service and assistance with heating issues and he also sponsers this site and give us a club discount.

Scott

my 2 core stock radiator cools my 489, with a edlebrock vc jr WP:yes:

Normally hovers around 170 with a 180tstat.:yes:

On a cool day I dont even have to run a fan.

Mee too :thumbsup: Mine runs 180*-185* with an 180* stat.

Sorry to be redunant guys.

I ran a Shafiroff 540CID engine that made 800HP in a 66 belair. I ran a stock 4-row radiator and it kept it cool enough. The secret was that I ran a fan shroud, a high-flow thermostat, and the best Flex-a-lite (mechanical, not electric) fan that they make.

Boy,i am seeing time and time again here in t/chevelle where guys are cooling pretty hot bbc's on the street with std copper/brass 2 & 3 core radiators that of course have good airflow esp Vince's 69 with the full coverage shroud from a little newer i think Monte.

But none the less its work well and i am begining to think that maybe the 4th core on the larger copper /brass rad's actually sets up more of a restriction to good airflow thru the rad esp with a marginal fan setup. So maybe when you go more then 3 core with a std type rad your cooling capacity in reality /on avg with most cooling system setups is worse unless you have a very good fan setup with good airflow in traffic which many motors dont have.

I say that because a lot of people are running std duty fan clutches that are not up to the task of cooling a bbc or fan setups that are not optimal and thats where they may be getting into trouble with a 4 core rad. But with a 2-3 core rad along with a not so optimal fan & clutch or fan alone weather it be a std manual fan or electric thats not that great at moving air they can survive because its easier to mover air thru the 2-3 core then 4 core esp with a weaker fan setup when it comes to moving/pulling air thru the radiator.

I am thinking of trying a 3 core rad when it comes time to replace the rad in my 396 which will be in next season or 2 because the current 4 core is approx 26yrs old. The current 4 core i have only has approx 15k miles on it and still looks ok and never had any corrosion in it and fin to tube connections seem to be nice and tight & not corroded/rotted/loose. But still its old and not the correct rad for the car anyway being a Modine replacment 4 core that has an auto trans cooler in it (my car has M20) that i installed in the early 80's for of all things better cooling (LOL!!!) and it's not a Harrison.

Scott

don, my biggest question is why is the copper or aluminum radiators so expensive? for what i can get a copper 3 row replacement for the aluminum is about 200.00 more. i'm running a 396 in a 69 chevelle with a viscus fan and i'm trying to keep the stock look? bill:confused:

Bill
I see Brass copper repops all the time for under 200 bucks .. I can assure you these are not USA Made .. Cheep over seas stuff ...sent over on the ship by container at 76 bucks each .

I strictly use USA made cores and componants ...not long ago i checked a price of a brass copper local rad manufacture here in Mich for a recore of our Harrison rad restoration .. the core was over 200.00 for brass copper .. I fell off my chair .. Thinking brass copper would be less then Aluminum .

Its a moral issue for me not to use over seas stuff .. hope this explains the Cheep prices you see on e/bay and other places .
Don

scott, thanks for the responce as far as the h/d fan clutch and the correct 7 blade steel fan i already have that and they work great.i had a 4 row rad and the temp never reach the half way mark on the gauge but now i'm looking for the right rad for what i'm doing. i just spoke to don at alumitech and he gave me alot of insight about the difference between alum & copper/brass and the $$$$. i will have to save up for a alum rad for my car, thanks don:thumbsup:

3 row copper brass 1/2 inch tubes =1.5 inch fin to tube contact
4 row copper brass 3/8 inch tubes =1.5 inch fin to tube contact
2 row Aluminum 2 rows 1 inch tubes= 2.0 inch of fin to tube contact a full 1/2 inch more of tube to fin contact .

Don

Don,
You mentioned U.S. Radiator, so I thought I should chime in. All of the U.S. Radiator copper/brass radiators are made with 1/2" tubes. You mentioned a 4 row radiator using 3/8" tubes. This is not the case when it comes to U.S. Radiator radiators. I think you might be confusing the 3/8" with the tube spacing (the distance between the tubes, not the size of the tubes) on the high efficiency line. Which is the same as any good aluminum radiator out there. So, to correct your calculations 4 row copper brass 1/2" tubes = 2.0 inch of fin to tube contact. Same as aluminum.

You mentioned further down in the post that the lead used to solder the fin to the tube makes the copper/brass less efficient, which is true. But since copper dissipates heat well above that of aluminum, the 4 row high efficiency copper/brass core ends up cooling like an aluminum core. No worse.

Cost is based on raw materials which are purchased by the pound. Aluminum is lighter weight than copper/brass, therefore is much less expensive to produce and should be cheaper to purchase. Long gone are the days of paying $1000 for an aluminum radiator because its supposedly cooled better.

shawn

Don,
You mentioned U.S. Radiator, so I thought I should chime in. All of the U.S. Radiator copper/brass radiators are made with 1/2" tubes. You mentioned a 4 row radiator using 3/8" tubes. This is not the case when it comes to U.S. Radiator radiators. I think you might be confusing the 3/8" with the tube spacing (the distance between the tubes, not the size of the tubes) on the high efficiency line. Which is the same as any good aluminum radiator out there. So, to correct your calculations 4 row copper brass 1/2" tubes = 2.0 inch of fin to tube contact. Same as aluminum.

You mentioned further down in the post that the lead used to solder the fin to the tube makes the copper/brass less efficient, which is true. But since copper dissipates heat well above that of aluminum, the 4 row high efficiency copper/brass core ends up cooling like an aluminum core. No worse.

Cost is based on raw materials which are purchased by the pound. Aluminum is lighter weight than copper/brass, therefore is much less expensive to produce and should be cheaper to purchase. Long gone are the days of paying $1000 for an aluminum radiator because its supposedly cooled better.

shawn

Shawn
some cores in brass copper are made with 1/2 tubes and some with 3/8
most 3 row you will find are 1/2 .. so you are correct if its a 4 row of 1/2 inch equaling 2.0 of finn to tube bond .

Heatex here in Michigan is who we source from for brass copper cores and they tell us brass copper meterials have gone out of sight .

aluminum weighs less and may cost less by the pound .. i would guess may be why the big cost to produce a brass copper core over aluminum cores .

I was not quoteing about the company U.S.RADAITOR that also owns Cool Craft . I was talking in general about over seas stuff verses U.S.A made stuff

by the way do you work for US Radiator / Cool Craft ??
Don

Yes, copper/brass has gone through the roof. Crazy. We saw a dip about 18 months ago, but has gone up significantly since.

Just so we are clear, I wasnt accusing you of anything. Just saw U.S. Radiator mentioned in this post and wanted to add that all of the copper/brass radiators use 1/2" tubes. There is so much mis-information about aluminum vs. copper/brass out there.

And, btw, U.S. Radiator does not own Cool Craft. They are separate corporations. Cool Craft sells U.S. Radiator radiators; they dont manufacturing anything.