Don Little's A/SA '70 Hemi Challenger went a 10.10 during Stock class elims yesterday at the US Nationals with an air density altitude of 2400+ ft. The actual elevation of the track is approx 850 ft. The fastest 427-425 '69 Camaros in A/SA were going 10.20's. There have been stockers in the 9's before at "fast" low altitude tracks and factored 9's at high altitude tracks, but this was .10 away in midwest (slow) air. Little would probably be in the 9.80's at one of those "mineshaft" tracks. I'm not saying he's one of them, but I heard at the track some of the tricks some Stock Elim racers are using. It's apparent NHRA aren't checking things as closely as they used to. One item is a set of $1400 lightweight pistons with a 1/16" top ring groove, moved up .100.

I guess they would check if you wanted to challenge and pay for the teardown. Then again, who is going to be the first open the can of worms.

Von.. Its my feeling that many of the "high end" cars are capable of establishing new national records, but I dont believe its done as often as possible because it usually results in NHRA refactoring their index. Al Corda never bothered to back up his sub 10 second pass. I watched Dan Fletcher make some brutal 3/4 passes at BIR last month ;)

Stock class racers and the Good Old Boys have a lot in common. It is so competitive with so many rules that anything you can get away with is done.

Oh yeah. I had my little tricks when I was doing it 25 yr ago, but they were nothing compared to what's going on today. I wasn't fast but got to pull a piston and rod at the '77 Sprignationals. I heard some have been instructed to pull a piston and rod today at the teardown barn, so there's hope.

I think the more astonishing fact is that it's taking nearly 1 second under the index to even qualify.
and take a look at how many of the FI cars are in the top qualified portion of the field.
Ron

Is this the car Jason Line is driving this weekend?

Has anyone seen the SS Buick GN that hit the 7's last year. The wildest thing about is it leaves like s**t.

Ok i have to believe that stock eliminator cars are ALL CHEATING, your not going to get a overcammed stock compression 305 in the 11's without something special going on. Hell if it was like that everyone and there brother would be driving 11 second cars. I have a hard time believeing ANY of these guys are putting out power numbers that get them into the low 10's on stock parts that "havent been more than cleaned up"

I too have a hard time figuring out how the stockers go as fast as they do.
But in all honesty, I've never really studied the rules.
All comes down to how much cam can they really run, what is allowed for head work and gee, here is the big one....how much $$$$ do they have to spend.
I have an acquaintance who runs in E/S with a 396 Nova, Stick shift car....and I can tell you, he doesn't know what gears are in the rear end........
Last name starts with a W.........

It has run high 10's.........

Makes me feel like a fool cause my alum headed 454 ran high...uh......tens.

Ron

I believe nowadays there's a LOT of cheating going on in Stock Elim. NHRA has cut down their tech staff and there are few really experienced ones left. Also it's said the threat of lawsuits has taken some of their "teeth" away. It seems now teardowns consist of checking only the items measurable against a stock spec with a head pulled. Items like bore, stroke, combustion chamber cc's, valve dia, cam lift (any duration now legal), carb bores, etc. There's a lot of stuff not easily measurable being done, like head and intake porting that's being camoflaged with acid etching, lightweight pistons, rods, cranks, etc. Also expensive LEGAL parts help a lot too, like lightweight trans parts, lightweight spools, rifle drilled axles, etc. Don't forget these cars are scienced out to a gnat's hair. Engines are flogged on the dyno and the number of competitive Stocker engine builders gets fewer every day as racers go to the ones that can produce the power. And the price goes up. Test run after test run. It's far from easy or cheap.

Hi von, actually according to the round 4 qualification list Don Littles '70 Street Hemi (ASA) ran 10.144 while 70+ year old Bobby Warren's LS-1 powered, stick shifted, car ran 10.143 in (AFI). How about "them aluminum small block Chevies".

He ran a 10.10 in the A/SA class final. For the Stock Elim qualifying order, only the time trials prior to class runoffs and the first round of class runoffs count in the final order. The first two time trials were Weds and the 3rd Thursday before class runoffs. Go to www.superstockforum.com, (http://www.superstockforum.com,) then Stock/SuperStock Forum, then the thread titled "A/SA King".

Those "Stockers" are amazing. Successful stocker racers are masters of the combo. Many guys on Team Chevelle could come much closer to those stocker e.t./mph - if only they would spend the money and time. Make no mistake, every part of a stocker is scienced out. Stocker racers also constantly refresh parts of their car that the average weekend warrior likes to get a whole season out of - like valve jobs, etc. Super lightweight drivetrain parts do make a difference, but they cost the kind of money that most would not invest. Many TC members pay a lot of attention to the engine horsepower component, while stockers pay closer attention to having the highest average horsepower laid down the length of the track. Not too many guys here running 5,500 to 6,000 stall converters with highly dialed in suspensions. The camshaft profiles favored by stockers are hard on spring life and would not work on the street part of a street/strip car.

Its all a compromise, you just have to decide what you can live with. Without going heavy into the motor, any good stocker racer could take any TC member's hot street/strip car and shave considerable e.t. Like the old adage asks: "How fast do you want to go, how much do you have to spend?".

Thomas

when comparing to a TC member, mind you, alot of people could cut considerable ET off by just spending the time tuning that a Stocker racer will spend.

Relating it to money is one thing, but its what you dont see, and what isnt talked about that makes well working car comparied to one that cant fall out of a tree.

Take my car for example, from my first pass to my 17th pass.....i cut a Full second off my ET's by making small changes, aside from the carb, everything else was small tuning change, or a change in driving characteristics. And i still have a considerable amount of ET left unfound.

These are racers that take nothing for granted and test for themselves, or their close nit friends.
These are racers that will search for ET in the Oil, in the Water temps, in the temperature of the intake manifold, in the gear lube, in the trans fluid.
These are racers who will try 10+ converters looking for ET, as well 10+ camshafts before settling on what makes the best ET.

Swap headers between rounds in testing.

Yes Brian and they have 4-6 thousand dollars in a transmission with every ounce of weight removed that isn't needed. They run the engines and transmissions with as little fluid as they can get by with and not kill them. Use radial slicks with 9" tread width that cost $700 a set, etc. and completely set up all the suspension to do nothing but traverse the 1/4 mile and strip every non essential piece off to reduce weight and relocate as much to the rear as possible. Lots of science in those stockers. And von; i didn't see anything on the class runoffs, hence ny "ignorance" about Don Littles 10.10.

Originally posted by Motor Martyr:
Take my car for example, from my first pass to my 17th pass.....i cut a Full second off my ET's by making small changes, aside from the carb, everything else was small tuning change, or a change in driving characteristics. I'm pretty sure your biggest reduction was going to SLICKS, not tuning. Anyone can drop a second or more off their street car if it's set up even half a%%ed for the 1/4. Lets not get carried away with ourselves.

I've had slicks on for every pass

I appologize. I was under the impression the first runs were on street radials.

There are things going on like acid dipping front fenders and hoods, lead in rear internal body (the car) cavities, dummy alternators, etc. Also aftermarket disc brakes are legal, which are set up for ZERO drag. The front and rear chassis and wheel alignment are finessed to where you can push one on a level surface with a finger once it's rolling. No stone is left unturned.

pretty cool, eh?

The reason stockers are running so fast compared to a lot of the weekend racers is they are not over cammed, over carbed, over headed, wrong gear, wrong converter and any other combo screw up you can think of. I have studied stockers for years and built my cars around their ideas. My cars are not fast by todays standards, mid and low 12's, but they are a second faster than most people feel they should run and they are getting faster. I run 650 cfm carbs when most would run a 750 and 3.90 to 4.30 gears when post would run 4.56 and lower. My dad's all metal 80 camaro just ran a 12.42 in the heat with a 355 shifted at 5400 rpm with a 3.90 gear and 28" slick and there is a lot left in it. This car also runs dead on the dial in or .01 slow every pass and if the drive(me) could cut a light, it would make a lot of money.

first 9 sec stock run outside US was made in finland by pasi mikkonen as his A/FI trans am ran 9.982 at alastaro dragway last weekend.the car is obviously built in US.

I'm feeling pretty good about now. The car's not a record-holder by any means, but we obviously dummied into a nice combo: best of 12.5 from a 350 with 28" slicks, 3.73 gears, 4.80 cam, 600cfm Holley, and it's got all the factory stuff still hanging on it. ...and it's a stick.

Fun stuff!

There's a lot in the suspension though, isn't there? One night we were packing up, and a real nice guy came by and complimented us on the car. Then he started telling us what all the Stock Appearing guys do to the suspensions to make them hook with crappy tires. Pretty impressive!

These stockers have definitely scienced out their combos to the nth degree.