I'm intrested in possibly getting this engine for my 72 Chevelle and am curious if anyone on here has one or has a friend who has one. I'm curious of how it performs and it's street manners such as how it idles, can you still use power brakes without a vacum resivoir, and does it have enough grunt to put you back in your seat. There was a feature on it in the winter 2002 Chevelle magazine that Super Chevy puts out ocassionaly, it is also listed in Summits and Jeg's catalouge's. The engine's list of parts sound like they are of good quality, they are all basically World products and Motown parts. The engine comes complete oil pan to carb and distributor, it has a 2 year/24,00 mile warranty and a $7,495.95 price tag. It is underated at 475hp and 525lb-ft of torque. I know it's not the cheapest crate engine and that you can build a more powerful engine cheaper but I don't have the know how to build an engine from the ground up and I don't know of any reputable machine shops to trust to build an engine for me, so a crate engine is the best route for me now.

Brandon

Here are some of the specs of the engine. www.theengineshop.com/tech/415_427engine01.doc (http://www.theengineshop.com/tech/415_427engine01.doc)

Off the subject, but is on too!!

Heck, I have about $3800 to $4000 in my homemade 496 BB that per D2K should go 550hp at 5500rpm and 580t at 4500rpm!!

SoI don't think it is good value at all..

But again if you want a SB crate motor and like what you should be getting, then go for it..

(And I tend ta be frugal, er cheap!!)...

pdq67

I suggest doing a search on "Bill Mitchell". I forget who, but someone had big trouble trying to get warranty service on an engine with big problems. I think he ended up rebuilding the engine himself.

Originally posted by Pat Kelley:
I suggest doing a search on "Bill Mitchell". I forget who, but someone had big trouble trying to get warranty service on an engine with big problems. I think he ended up rebuilding the engine himself. Yeah, I remember that story too. If you don't know what you're doing, you could destroy that motor on initial start up and they'd fight you on the warrenty.

pdq, so.....you are a frugal-skate? ;)

Mike

do a search for the user name of mikehartwell

Yes, Mike bought a hi-po crate motor from B/M and told them he wanted a good street motor AND got one so loose that it was probably just only good for a "balls-out", 1/4 mile motor!

I think his pick of legal groups got it straightened out to his satisfaction and I was keeping track of the long post, too..

pdq67

I know how you feel, I had a bad machine shop experience. But I did get smart and asked around and found a good local shop. IMO $7500 sounds pretty steep for the power it makes. The motor uses parts good for the stress of 700hp, but with a 500hp tune. You can use factory pieces at the 500hp level, and save alot of cash. On the good side if you plan on stepping up the motor later it should be able to handle the power better than factory pieces.

I'm the most recently "screwed", see my post in the topic called "combo help second guessing some things", it started out just trying to find a converter, ended with canceling an 8k dollar plus deal with a shady speed shop out in california. Almost bought a $6,400 dollar motor, got a fake dyno sheet in e-mail claiming 593hp at 5500 rpms, engine was really making 520 something, and it took 3 times as long to build this thing as it was supposed to, just cancelled the order today! Life isn't fair sometimes I guess. This is what I get after my 350 blows up, car in the grage since JUNE!!!

Thanks for all of the responses guys. This is one of a few engines I was considering, I guess I might be taking it off my list. I know not all crate engines are bad, I currently have a 300hp Jasper 350 engine in my Chevelle now and have had no problems with in the six years it has been in the car. I am starting to look for something with some more power and with that lumpy idle we all love. The only problem is that I don't have to much know how on what parts would work best to build me a healthy small block. I could go to a machine shop and have them build me an engine and all it could turn out to be is a small block with a big cam and less power than I have now, so you can see what I'm dealing with with why I'm looking at crate engines since I would be dealing with a bussiness instead of some hole in the wall joint (I'm not saying all machine shops are this way). Thanks again for the responses, my search continues.

Brandon

Why don't you contact BillK (on this site) and see what guidance he might be able to provide. He is in Maryland and might be able to direct you to someone close to you or maybe build an engine for you. He sure seems to have a handle on what works.

If you're looking for a small block crate engine, the GM ZZ383 doesn't look too bad. It is the GM 383HT short block, with the Hot cam, and fastburn heads. It's rated at 425HP and around 460ft lbs torque. It sells for around $5K. It's pricy, but comes with a GM warranty. It would make a great street engine.

Scoggin/Dickey (GM Dealer) will build you a 'custom' GM crate motor, with warranty. Pretty much any HP rating. http://www.sdpc2000.com

Originally posted by d1_bradley:
Scoggin/Dickey (GM Dealer) will build you a 'custom' GM crate motor, with warranty. Pretty much any HP rating. http://www.sdpc2000.com Scoggin Dickey does have a crate engine that I am intrested in, it is their ZZ465hp. I did not see anything about a warranty on it though, only the stock replacement engines had a warranty from what I saw. Here is a link to the specs of the ZZ465hp www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?action=prod_detail&catid=1579&pid=9010 (http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?action=prod_detail&catid=1579&pid=9010)

I would try to do somethig local. What good is a warranty if you have to pull the engine and pay for shipping to get it fixed and then return shipping? Engine shipping is not cheap. BTW most of the GM warranties I have seen reuire a GM certified mechanic for them to honor the warranty.
The BillK suggestion I think is your best route.

I bought a mail order engine once......once graemlins/angry.gif

Brandon
I would also contact Bill and see what he can do for you. Who knows he may even have something brewing around the shop :D If you don't want to come down this way I know that Burtonsville Perf Machine is a good shop. And I think Bill would second that. Either way you get piece of mind to be able to drive up and figure out if something is wrong! graemlins/hurray.gif

I can send you enough investigative info on bm to fill a dump truck. My motor was crap and the warranty was useless. Long list of issues, both mechanical and legal, but the latest is the FTC's interest in my situation. Seems they think it's fraudulent (on a Federal level) to advertise a warranty as being backed by a bona-fide insurance company when it clearly is not - particularly in light of the fact that the "third party insurance provider" they use is expressly forbidden to sell, represent, be an agent for, or a third party representative for insurance products in the states they do business in. Hmmmm....now that's not what the advertising and warranty card say.....

Wait a minute...could it be....? Naw, couldn't be. A volume-centric aftermarket performance supplier "stretching the truth"? Advertising something they don't have or do? Horrors.

Well, the FTC is kinda thinking if you advertise an insurance policy inclusive with your product, you should provide one. And if you can't provide one, then you should stop advertising it and reimburse existing customers for the cost of said policy.

It's shake and bake and I helped! I contacted the top 5 insurance companies and spoke with their underwriting departments. Even if they would provide such a policy (which they won't because the market won't substantiate it), the premium would likely be 50% of the cost of the product: $7500 motor + $3750 policy = $11,250.

Stay tuned, I'm still trying to get that website up about all this, but with the tech sector booming and 2 buyout offers already this year, I rarely even get to this forum until 2-3am.

On the other side, bm and their "warranty company" are trying to cobble together a slander and restraint of trade suit against me. Problem is that as soon as they pull the trigger on that, we don't pass go, we don't collect $200, we go right to federal district court where I simply punch "play" on the tape recorder and we all sit back and listen to what really happened.

Best,

Oh, I forgot - forget about the volume production hi performance engines. Find a good independent locally and go that route. Had I known then what I know now, I would have used one of 7 highly regarded independent engine builders within 100 miles of my doorstep. The engine would have cost less, been more reliable, made more horsepower, had better parts, and been finished is 1/3 the time. Whew!

Best,

Whew is right Mike!!

Have a great Turkey Day!!

pdq67

Back atcha good buddy! Turkey's almost done - time to fire up the chainsaw (big dadgum turkeys here in TX you know....) graemlins/waving.gif

Best,

Thanks for all the replies guys I appreciate it, I will definitely take BM off my list of posibillitys.

MikeHartwell: Thanks for sharing your experiences with BM, sorry it had to be a big PIA for you and a pricey one at that.

J.J.: I will have to look into maybe talking with BillK, if he does good work and would have a fair price and stand behind his work I would not have a problem driving to Waldorf to have the work done. Is BillK an MCC member and has any members had him do any work for them? Have you or anyone you know had any experience with the shop in Burtonsville, It would be closer but I would drive further for better quality than I would for conveinence.

Brandon

Brandon,
BillK is the moderator on the Troubleshooting board & has an excellent reputation with everone here & he always seems to be available to answer members questions. I am across the country & have talked with Bill a few times & would recommend him highly.
Not only that he seem like a hell of a nice guy :D
His name is:
Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md

I know this is late in the game considering the dates of the messages I have read, but I DO HAVE A 415 MOTOWN.. now get this... it was supposed to have been run, broke in and dyno tested. When I installed it, (yep did it myself which VOIDS the warranty) had everything connected, hooked up and ready to go, I then started adding my high dollar royal purple oil only to notice it dripping down the side of my brand new shiny motor. The freakin valve cover gasket had obviously been pushed inward while the sealant was still wet and set up like that. (I have photos) It never stood a chance of sealing. I can think of NO POSSIBLE WAY this motor was ever run, or the idiot running it would have noticed the same thing. I tried calling and email, but didnt get anywhere. I took photos from the very beginning and during the entire installation. I have had several other issues and the truck (my baby) is still sitting in my shop where I installed the motor a year ago. Ran out of money messing with it. Anyone with questions or comments, feel free to contact me as I would be pleased to discuss this with anyone, anytime. :mad:
P.S. I dont own a chevelle, but wish I did. My point... I fell into this site by accident while reading another view of World Products products. I joined only to add my comments in hopes that another guy out there looking to spend ten grand wont get screwed.

Thanks Jim, and welcome aboard. :thumbsup: Many of us here now know all about the pitfalls of Bill Mitchell/Hardcore/World products engines. :sad: I still wish that somebody who knows more about the internet than I do would start-up a website with the web address being www.thetruthaboutWorldProducts.com where all of us can post our terrible experiences with that rediculous company.

I feel the same about World Products heads: more hype than horsepower. Didn't do any better than a well prepped set of stock Chevy heads. You can thank the magazines and West coast dynos for that. I remember 20 years ago talking to one of the local dyno people and he said they had never gotten the high numbers that the magazine articles got using the same parts. Let the buyer beware!!!!!!!